She's in Bant colors,arguably one of the best if not the best color combinations in all of EDH.
Uncounterable, Flash, skips Commander Tax, grants every creature in her deck with a very relevant ability.
Extreme versatility, can head either Control, Goodstuff, Voltron, Stax, or degenerate Combo decks with ease.
Truly outstanding in multiplayer games, and so effective/abusive that she was banned in 1v1.
She's even scary good when heading Voltron or Combo decks comprised of nothing but commons...
If anything though,... she was a bit "over designed"...
I totally agree with you on Derevi. She is definetely one of the best designed commanders compared to many other options. The resason why I think so is the fact that she perfectly encapsules the color identity of Bant in one card, better than any other Bant general. Uncounterable is a Bant thing, Flash is a Bant thing, always ready to be there for your troops, no matter what, Tapping/Untapping things is Bant and also garanting that ability to other creatures you control is perfectly in the spirit of Bant. As you said, if anything else she might be designed to well as we don't have commanders in other identities which are the same, iconic and fitting representant for their shard/wedge.
Even from a powerlevel standpoint she is fine these days, at least for multiplayer. Just a very well rounded and competetive commander
I have certainly considered to build the happy hippo myself and actually might do so in the future. You bring up a lot of good points why it is a very good commander for control-politics gameplay in Bant colors. But as you pointed out it still feels like a meme to build a serious deck around god ol Phelda.
Anyway, my point really was just that I don't think Derevi is particularly unique in this circumstance. People do complain about the commander tax thing, but we've had commanders that dodged tax since the format began, they just did it by returning to hand instead. While it's definitely a strong option for a tempo/control list, unless you're abusing it via winter orb and whatnot, she's not significantly better than a host of other options. I think the real meat of the discussion is more about playing a control deck against weaker players with more powerful decks. Derevi herself doesn't strike me as being a particularly important part of the equation, except as a scapegoat for your opponents to cry "no fair, derevi is overpowered because no other commander has ever cheated commander tax ".
Can you list all commanders that dodge commander tax one way or the other? I know a few which essentially never are affected by commander tax in the right build, like Karador, Ghost Chieftain or Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.
Great read, your message caught my attention since I recently built a Derevi deck. It is however at its early stage and needs a lot of fine tuning. Would you have a decklist available, so I can enlighten myself?
Thanks!
Glad that the topic peeked your interest. I have a decklist of Flashblade on tapped out Here. There is also a primer that I started in the Multiplayer Commander section of this forum. You have to scroll through the pages to find it. Flashblade is however only one version to play Derevi and it's not the best I have come up with so far. It's essentially a control deck that tries to finish with commander damage and plays heavy equipment synergies. It's a fun and powerful deck, but really lacks in some creature heavy metas. But it's defintely a pretty fair version of Derevi and if you are into equipments you might like it.
I really need to find the time to update the Primer with some of the other non-stax options I have come up with, since some are more powerful or a lot more fun. But what I can only urge you to do is: Experiment. There are literally endless builds possible as Derevi is incredible versatile and supportive.
First of all I want to thank all you guys for the great responses so far. I'm happy that some of you had a good read. With that out of the way I want to elaborate on some specific comments and points made.
Imma let you finish but Phelddagrif is the best bant control commander of all time! (oh god just typing that meme makes me feel old) He's arguably even harder to kill than derevi, draws next to zero hate, can weaponize weak players against strong ones, plays politics like derevi can only dream of, has twice the power for a faster clock with trample to boot, and he's way, way funnier to kill people with. Derevi has his plusses too, but at the end of the day, if you win almost every game with Derevi, people say you're overpowered. If you win almost every game with Phelddagrif, people say you're a legend.
I have certainly considered to build the happy hippo myself and actually might do so in the future. You bring up a lot of good points why it is a very good commander for control-politics gameplay in Bant colors. But as you pointed out it still feels like a meme to build a serious deck around god ol Phelda.
I mean, I'm sure you made a lot of good points, but the only piece of info I needed to give an answer is that your brewing to play against tier 1 decks. The answers is of course no, they should not complain. Even the most cutthroat stax build of Derevi is fine for that environment. Once your in cEDH, your playing either exclusively to win or to test your skill against the best decks you can face. The only things that I think could rightly draw complaints are things like group hug or chaos that will just king make and undermine the reason people are playing high tier decks.
Outside of cEDH, Derevi is no longer as overplayed as she once was, so as long as you aren't running her stax build she's typically fine. Her ability to evade commander tax is annoying and can still put some people off, so it's still worth asking before you run her, especially in more casual settings. And yes, Derevi can be played casually, like bird tribal
Very good points made here. Well, to come back to my meta I would not say it is cEDH all the time, but rather right on the edge towards cEDH. There are some cEDH decks floating around here and there, but its not tier 1 stuff all the time. That being said I'm also not running the most cut-throat Derevi brews of course, hence why I think there is no room to complain at all.
I'll be honest, I didn't read the whole treatise. It looked well thought out, so please take that as a reflection on my poor concentration and the fact that I'm at work.
That being said the one phrase that stood out to me tells me all I need to know:
I hate that you always counter my important spells when I want to go infinite
Really? What sort of children are you playing against? This is literally how the game works, especially at a competitive level. They've got no place complaining. It's not a popular strategy, but if anything I dislike combo more. So....keep doing what you're doing. And tell them if they want to beat you they need to stop complaining and step it up.
Yea, this happened to me a few times already, but to be fair, it was a corner case I still thought would be worth mentioning. But even if I don't get such childish complaints, I got other ridiculous ones. The deck is no joke after all, but I let other people play with my deck as well and I didn't noticed any unsolvable problems whatssoever. The winrate isn't super high either, so I don't know...
Shame that you wrote this thoughtful, measured argument and "Boris Sucks" is still top of the forum.
That being said, perception and reputation matter. I play a Kozilek artifact combo deck, mostly because he's a draw 4 in colorless. But I still eat cheap shots and chip damage from players afraid of being anninhilated.
C'est la vie, you play a general that does a lot of sweet things, pushback comes with the turf in high literacy environments.
Yea, I have seen a Kozilek deck in the past and it's quite similar in terms of hate that it draws. I agree with players, annihalator is nothing to underestimate, but sometimes people take the pitchfork runup onto another level. ^^
I read the writeup, and it certainly was a well-written piece of musings.
...but I can't offer much. Your 75% is probably about 125% for me, if that makes sense - your meta seems a few aeons more competitive than where my decks are, so it's hard to directly compare.
However, I don't think of Derevi as a problem commander. As with any commander, you can play 'fair' if you want to - which seems to be your approach here. With the decks you're against I don't think they have much space to complain about non-stax Derevi.
Okay still thank you for your opinion, even you play on a more leaned back powerlevel. It still means something. I absolutely agree that you can play fair with most commanders and that is actually what I wanted to from the beginning on. I also made it clear to the players in my playgroup that they do not need to fear Winter Orb or something in that vein.
Well, this topic every now and then gets brought up in forums and playgroups and since I am a passionate Bant player, I am brewing with Derevi, Empyrial Tactician for over a year now. There are multiple reasons why I've been running Derevi for all my Bant needs, but mainly because she is the only competitive option for Bant as of today. This is obviously subjective and some might disagree, but hear me out and let me give you some context.
The goal of this thread is to gather valuable opinions by other players, wether you have experience playing with or against Derevi, or not. I'm a person who is generally caring about good games, fun & fair experiences, so outside input is a way to get valuable information and input, hence why I created this topic.
My Goals and Visions - What Deck do I want to play
Ever since I've been playing EDH I loved decks full with interactions! I also love turning creatures sideways and win with plain and simple combat damage! I love some good old value generation and rather pick a more leaned back approach so I maximise my staying power in the game. If you combine these attributes you end up with the Tempo archetype, a mix between aggro and control, leaning either more to one side or being a very balanced blend. While this archetype spawned many succesful decks across all different 1v1 formats, it's rather underwhelming in EDH, due to the nature of a multiplayer format. These decks heavily rely on tempo generating or tempo decreasing cards that are simply not designed to go against multiple opponents at once and fail miserably in EDH.
On my journey of creating a true EDH tempo deck I eventually stumbled across Derevi, Empyrial Tactician after I had almost given up. I tried to realise this archetype in many different ways, using commanders like Geist of Saint Traft or Thrasios, Triton Hero, but they never reached the power and effeciency level that was required to compete against the formats Tier 1-2 decks. This is of course due to the archetypes bad position in a multiplayer format, but my drive to create a functioning tempo deck was so strong that I eventually overcame its weakness and was able to build multiple succesful builds.
Derevi, in my honest opinion, is the only general which can put tempo into the competetive realm and do so in a sheer unlimted amount of flavors and variations. Starting with the infamous Derevi stax list (which isn't a traditional tempo deck if you ask me), Flashblade (my own creation which is essentially EDH's version of Caw Blade), Tokenflash (another creation by me using instant speed token spells to swarm the board), Wizardball (A wizard combo deck) over to flicker based value decks and everything in between. This commander is the incarnation of versatility!
The Meta - How the Pod matters
If we as humans want to measure something and give a true, unbiased assesment we need to look at things holistically. In terms of commanders and decks we need to not only look at the general and the deck itself, but rather look at the planned application as well. I will make it very clear here: It does not make any sense to measure a Doomsday combo deck in relation to a The Ur-Dragon precon. I really want to emphasize that, because I don't want players to express concerns or shout BAN DEREVI! just because they don't like to play on a certain power level or their beloved tribal deck got crushed by a tier 1 deck. I 100% agree that some decks just should not be brought to more casual tables and if they are, the chances are high that it will frustrate players and give a wrong perception. Now with that out of the way, let's get into my meta.
I regularly go against very powerful decks settled in around the 75% mark, sometimes a bit higher or a bit lower, consisting of all different archetypes. Generally even decks that might not have a real cEDH variant are very powerful and tough to go against. The composition of play pods varies from game to game, so I never know wether I go against 3 combo decks, 1 stax & 2 control decks, 1 aggro & 2 combo decks and so on......
There is a high number of very good decks present in my meta and many of them use pretty degenerate stuff that wins ranging from turn 3-7 if not stopped.
I've been going up against these powerful decks for over 2 years now and I've since stayed true to some of my own virtues: No infinite combos, play hard, but fair and never pass your turn with out two untapped islands! I've seriously learned and improved a lot since 2016 and I still do. I've been working hard to perfect the art of playing tempo in EDH and worked on my decks with such a dedication that I can truly say: I am proud of what I have achieved! I have overcome the supreme discipline, playing against 3 tuned combo decks at the same time and winning with combat damage! I have taken the role of the control player in our group and because of that have taken my friends deck building and piloting to the next level! I have had hours of fantastic interactions with very good friends and I can truly say that the EDH community as a whole has been nothing but amazing to me!
However, very recently I had some players in my meta complain about my decks. I've heard phrases like: cheating commander tax is broken, untapping all your stuff is too strong, I hate that you always counter my important spells when I want to go infinite, your deck has to many interactions with others and itself, you and your damn Mask of Memory, has anyone a Pithing Needle for trade?...
It's been certainly polarizing for me and my tempo bird lately and while some players complained, others say Derevi is perfectly fine as is. To give some additional context I've been brewing multiple Derevi decks at the same time for over 1 year and I can say without a doubt: I have mastered the Bird in many different ways. Since I started brewing however I stayed true to all my values and goals I set: No infinite combos, no stax pieces and if you want to win.... better swing some creatures sideways. Isn't this one of the most honest ways to tackle deck building? Isn't it a very well deserved win if you did win in your combat phase, in a format that is certainly anti-creature? Isn't it important to have a master of diplomacy available as commander, that fights for the good cause in a world full of corruption and betrayal?
I've had someone come to me and say: "Yesterday after our game evening I was lying in the bed and just couldn't sleep because I was thinking about our game where you had Wilderness Reclamation out and sacced Derevi, Empyrial Tactician each turn into Seaside Haven to draw a card". I had a smile on my face hearing that and he continued that it is overpowered and shouldn't be possible. But is it? Is it really overpowered to spend 2GWWUU to draw a card and tap or untap target permanent? I don't think so. Other decks are winning the game with 7 mana. I surely agree that Derevi can pull of all sorts of crazy shenanigans that many other commanders can't, but is that really a reason to hate her? Other commanders have different ways to be abused, some of which are way higher on the degeneracy scale, and no one is complaining on the same level, or at all, as they do with Derevi for years.
See through the Eyes of the Bird - My personal assessment
While its hard to avoid being subjetive, especially if you're like me and love Derevi, I still tried to maintain some objectivity when looking at her in the greater picture of our format. Obviously she had to go in 1v1 french commander and if nothing else that is a sign that we are talking about a "serious business" commander. Of course decisons that are made for that format do not translate well into multiplayer at all, it's only a small indicator. Actually I will go as far and say that almost all commanders which are problematic in 1v1 aren't in multiplayer.
In terms of Derevi stax lists I can truly understand why people would not like to go up against something like that, especially if they are not equipped to do something against it or just don't enjoy being taxed for everything they do. I actually don't super enjoy playing against stax but every now and then I'll take the challenge. But I will say something here which many people seem to avoid: It is stax that you probably don't like, not Derevi, and while she is probably the commander that supports this playstyle the best, its still an otional and concious decision by the deck builder to run her as a stax general, which I don't.
If I should formulate one sentence about Derevi it would be: Derevi is the best that could have happened to the competetive side of EDH!
In a world where combo decks take the supreme spot of the power scale it is in my honest opinion very important to have a counterbalance existent in the format and while some generals can apply for this job, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician takes the supreme spot on that side of the scale. Control decks in general lack in terms of quality when they go up against the best of the best and that is especially true when you make the concious decision to not run a combo-control deck. Fortunately Derevi gives all players an outlet who choose to take that path and she does it in a brilliant very open ended way.
As said earlier, I do agree with players that Derevi can pull of some crazy next-level plays and most decks that I have build took a lot advantage of her unique traits. But we need to truly ask ourselves what the outcome of these interactions is in relation to other commanders interactions or individual cards. Sacrificing Derevi for some value and just replaying her might seem flashy and unfair for some players, but if you start to put this into perspective with other interactions, you start to realize how "cute" some of it is. Like I said earlier, the interaction with Seaside Haven is great, but 7 mana for 1 card and a tap/untap trigger? Necropotence might have a word with you.
I could continue forever, showing how many cards or synergies are more effecient than the shenanigans Derevi can pull of, but that is beyond the point. Rather I will talk about some very general observations that I made. There are people complaining about winning game states, which can be huge in Derevi decks, just have no basis to complain. For example, if my decks win, its been a hard fight over resources and a win in the most honest way possible, through combat, and if opposing players can't do anything to stop that from happening they should probably work on their decks. I have the philosophy that if a deck is well constructed, at some point it should almost feel unstopable. If players happen to find themselves often in these situations, they should really try to pin point the issues why they find themselves in such situations and I can tell you in 99% of the cases the issue lies within their own deck and for the other 1% it's just that they brought a deck that shouldn't be played against Tier 1-2 decks.
Additionally, people who build glas-canon combo decks can't complain if a good control deck will stop them from combo-ing regularly. Just build a better deck and don't rely on combos alone. I've seen this so often that combo players get super mad if they rush into their combo, get stopped and after it just sit there for statistical reasons. That is just bad building & piloting and you can't blame that on opposing decks and their pilots.
Conclusion: Wether you like Derevi or not, I truly believe that she fulfills an important role in our format and I will stand up for the cause, no matter what. Some people in the community were demanding a ban over the years and I am very happy that it didn't happen. As far as I know that also won't change in the future and that is good thing, because it would not only remove a serious contender for the competetive scene, but also make a lot of casual people sad that enjoy Derevi as their Bird-Tribal commander and what not. What I will say here though: It's about time for another competetive general in Bant colors, which is what this color combination desperately needs.
Retrospective - To the readers
What are your thoughts on this whole subject?
Do you agree with me?
Do you disagree?
Have you had any experiences you want to share?
Please take my invitation and use this place to discuss everything Derevi. I'll appreciate every bit of input you contribute to this thread.
Hey man, I just want to chime in and encourage you to keep at writing this. It's well-written and a great concept. I'm extremely tempted to build this deck and finally sell my soul to play Bant headed by Derevi.
My one question is: how often does your equipment stay alive? I notice a lack of recursion for your equipment which seems a little troubling to me. Artifacts are notorious in Commander now and I find that mine are destroyed frequently.
Hey man, thank you for the nice words and encouraging me to keep writing. I will definitely do it, right now I'm just a little bit busy with moving to a new flat but once that is sorted out I will keep adding to the thread. I will however take this moment to answer your question.
I agree with you that artifact hate is very prevalent in EDH, in my meta as well. Sometimes more sometimes less. I generally have my equipments around most the times and I'm going to elaborate on some cards in the deck that help me to make sure that they stay on the board. First and foremost though, you never want to over extend with them, so if a boardwipe hits the field you have blades in your hand to follow up with. It's very important to read the game, so you know exactly when to drop equipments and when to better hold back. This is especially true for the big finisher equipments like Runechanter's Pike & Blackblade Reforged. You never want to drop them early, because they don't do a lot besides making your opponents pay attention to your board.
The first category of cards that help to have equipments around are protection spells, namely Heroic Intervention and Teferi's Protection. I can't stress out enough how good these two are, especially if you combine them with something like Hour of Revelation to save your own stuff, but blow the world up. In response to your opponents these are very good as well of course.
Second category are just simple and easy counterspells. That's the reason why they are so good, right? They can act as a form of protection for your own stuff or to prevent your opponents from developing their board or resolving a combo.
Lastly, Academy Ruins, Noxious Revival and Reap help to gain them back if stuff already is in the yard. It's not much recursion, I agree, but I never had huge problems with my stuff being blown up. In the end of the day I think it's all a combination of saving your recursion for the right moment, playing your equipments a the right time and never over extending too much, so you stay under the radar.
I hope this helps you a little and I would definitely recommend to sell your soul to Derevi It's a very fun commander to build around and I'm currently building my second deck with her, also non stax.
I had a nice gaming evening with 3 friends yesterday and I was playing Flashblade again after quite some absence from the deck, due to other projects. It was a pretty competetive pod and we played 4 games in total. We generally had a very pleasing experience and super enegaging games, however I did notice a few things and decided to give the deck a small revison.
The first thing that I re-realized was how tight the gameplay with this archetype is. There is no room for mistakes and unfortunately I did make a few yesterday which cost me in the end. It's certainly a list that you have to play extensively to become the best possible pilot and being abscent from playing it a few months, piloting many other decks, caused me to make some small mistakes here and there. So I decided to get more playtime down with it again from now on.
One thing that I witnessed in all 4 games though was one or more situations where I was exactly one mana short of handling a situation perfectly and that certainly sucked. Once it was a critical counterspell that I just couldn't cast, the other game it wasn't possible to sequence mana efficient and in the other 2 games I was literally going into the finishing state of the game, but my mana supply was to low and I could not handle the repercussions of my opponents, trying to stop me. So here are the changes I decided to make based on yesterdays eperience.
So all the 3 cards I'm taking out were cards I questioned earlier already. As with most decks, this is not 100%, though its close. Over the long course of bulding this deck these 3 defintely felt the weakest, so it wasn't too hard to cut them.
Out Thassa, God of the Sea: It's a fine card and scrying on each upkeep helps control decks to get the relevant stuff. On top of that she offered a way to make Derevi unblockable against players with strong flying defenses. However, it always feels bad to spend 3 mana on the turn she comes down and doing asolutely nothing. On top of that I realized that flyers, if present, aren't that big of a deal to get rid of for this deck, so thats why she gets the cut.
Supreme Will: A card that got added for its modal nature. I found myself very often casting the Impulse mode, which I wasn't too thrilled about for 2U. While the Mana Leak mode can be a really great tempo play early on, it sucks very often in the late game. I need my counters to be more reliable and my cantrips to be cheaper so I take it out.
Careful Consideration: I played this card because it looks very deep for its mana cost while being an instant. I did knew though that this card will probabaly be replaced down the road, because for 4 mana it's not giving us enough raw card advantage, especially if we cast it outside of our main phase.
In Carpet of Flowers: I've been sitting on this card for quite a while, not sure where to play it in. This card is getting hot lately in competitive EDH for good reason. Since I am in a very blue meta, which EDH seems to be in general, I think this could do a good figure in Flashblade. The mana can only be used in our main phases, but that is mostly the time where we want to play equipments, equip them or cast other sorcery speed things. That mana should free up lands for our opponents turns, which is exactly what we want. Also, it's super effecient costing only G and has the potential to be a Mega-Sol Ring.
One with Nature: That's another hidden gem I already played in this deck before. Even if we only get one use out of it it's a Rampant Growth for G which is great. If we however trigger it a couple times it reaches astronomical effeciency levels. Works very good with double strike as well.
Thrasios, Triton Hero: This is a card I have a very positive relationship with, played him as a commander on and off since his release. He is a very good control commander himself and he should function in the 99 of Flashblade as well. His ability is relevant at all times of a game and having a quality mana sink can never hurt. Also he tackles the problem of being one mana short very easily
Conclusion
While I did take out 2 instants overall with this revison and added a creature, which is generally not prefered, I did lower the average CMC quite a a bit. Hopefully these changes help me to get more consistency with my mana availability and prevent me from being to much behind opponents that are ramping hard. While Flashblade does not want to play a ramp game of course, having some extra lands or mana for a cheap price certainly can't hurt. I make sure to report on the outcome and if anyone has some further suggestions they are much appreciated.
I personally think True Conviction is way over the top.
What does Dromoka's Command accomplish?
Can you elaborate on Reap? It's pretty obvious it's a meta card, but I feel like there's more to say.
Suggestions:
I think that since you're a control deck and you like having lots of mana and lots of cards, Sphinx's Revelation is amazing for you. You already have a ton of small, incremental card advantage slots, I also think you need one that will set you farther ahead.
Also in the field of big mana, I think an argument can be made for Rout. You have few ways to actually answer the entire board, and you don't having a lot of mana, and you want to play spells at instant speed. It's just too good for you.
Thank you for your comment and your suggestions. Much appreciated on my side. I want to note that I'm still working on the primer section and some cards that puzzle you actually will have their own section later on to explain them in more detail. However, I'm going to go through your cards right now, because it will probably take me some time to reach that section in the primer.
True Conviction: I was actually thinking the same way for a long time until I tested it to finally conclude if it is worth it. It is so far. The reason I play this is that I need sources of lifegain, because with that low creature count your life can get pretty low sometimes. Additionally this enchantment grants double-strike which is so damn powerful with many of the saboteur effects in this list, including Derevi her own. Also, you have to count its mana cost different. While it costs 3WWW on its own if you attack with Derevi hitting for double-strike and you untap 2 lands it now becomes just 2WW for example. If you have a Karoo Land like Selesnya Sanctuary in play, the discount is even better.
So in conclusion, this enchantment really pressures your opponents to do something about it and if not you are very likely to run away with the game. I've done this multiple times.
Dromoka's Command: It's just a fine modal spell in my opinion. The preventing of instant or sorcery damage isn't very useful often, though it did save me a few times. Making someone sac an enchantment is great and the other two modes work very well with Derevi. Giving her a counter than let her fight something troublesome. I think its in here for it's sheer flexibilty.
Reap: Man, this is such a strong card and not just a meta call. I play it in all green decks that want to run this type of effect. Worst case - no one playing black, you just discard it with loot effects. Moderate case - someone has one black permanent, you get an instant speed Regrowth. Best case - someone having 3+ black permanents, you have an instant speed upgraded version of Yawgmoth's Will for 1G. Upgraded because you don't have to play the cards immediatly and can potentially return even more than you would play with a Will anyways. Let's be honest black is one of, if not the most popular color in EDH. This card is just bonkers and such a hidden gem. Its also great in an Isochron Scepter.
No Rewind: Well, this is simply due to the fact that I don't have more room for counterspells as of now. The ones I have are either cheaper, have some extras or are part of a modal spell which I value more. I agree though that it's a fine option.
No Rhystic Study: I hate this card a lot. It is good if you drop it early game and it goes unanswered for some turns, but in the late game this card is horrible beyond belief. It's not drawing you cards reliably enough and I can't afford to have a card like that in this specific list, which is tight when it comes to draw effects. Mystic Remora on the other hand just costs a single U and the tax is way higher, so no one will pay 4 to keep me from drawing cards. Also if you drop it late game its very likely to be a situation where your opponents need to deal with your stuff and very often that is done with noncreature spells, so the limitation isn't really a big deal. I generally think that Mystic Remora is the better card for more competitive metas honestly. And on top of that I just personally dislike Rhystic Study. It has the potential to really warp the game around it and and I hate cards like that. If someone plays a Study I simply ignore it and let them draw their cards, because I'm a guy that likes to play many spells a turn, so I can't afford to be taxed for every damn spell. If I get the chance to get rid of a Study I will do it in an eye blink though.
Sphinx's Revelation: Its a super good card I tried before. I'm still investigating wether I need a big draw effect though. Very often the draw engines in this deck are working good and my premise for draw spells in this deck was "Look as deep as you can, for as low mana cost possible", so I would personally favor Pull from Tomorrow. One thing on top of that is the fact that if you are a control player you don't want to draw more cards than you can hold in your hand and have to discard all your precious answers. I think its important to strike the balance here. Good suggestion nonetheless and I will ivestigate this further.
Rout: I mean, I have Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, Hour of Revelation, Evacuation & Cyclonic Rift. I think 5 sweepers is more than enough, considering my opponents play sweepers as well and I have some spot removal on top of that. Rout never really impressed me in most decks. I should give it a try in this list maybe.
Hey guys and welcome! I wanted to share this decklist for a long time and now I feel confident enough to do so. I want to turn this into a primer eventually, but that will surely take some time and effort. So for now I will keep it pretty basic and work my way to a more comprehensive thread.
Update 02/20/2019: I started to work on this thread again after a pretty long break due to massive personal life shake-ups. Over the last couple of months I started to build a second, independent decklist, which I will organize and update all in the same thread, because they share a lot in common. So I have essentially two deck lists and sections that I'll try my best to merge together in an organized way.
My name is Sebastian, I'm from Germany and started playing Magic in 2002. As most newbies a friend showed it to me and we were playing very casual in the schoolbus, in the school and in our free time. I kept playing up until the release of the first Zendikar Block, which was a time where I was occupied with many other things and I just couldn't afford to play much magic. I still followed the game as a silent observer for the coming years though and in early 2016 some friends introduced me to EDH, which is what I've been playing ever since.
I was introduced to a local meta which consists out of around 20 players, playing decks of different powerlevels and flavors. I'm living in a small student town where new players come to the meta every other semester so it never gets stale. I would describe my meta as 75%. Pretty competetive for the most part, but still not cEDH, which is a very pleasing powerlevel for me. There are strong plays made, yet everyone can still please their inner Timmy and try some obscure stuff.
Since November 2016 I've been investing heavily into the format, both time and money, and I increased my skills as a deckbuilder and player significantly compared to the old days. EDH is a format where I feel home, able to try out almost everything I want and express myself with my commander and the underlying strategy. Some of my favorite strategies are sacrifice based aristocrat decks, like Teysa, Orzhov Scion and as far as my meta goes I am taking the role of the control guy that always has an answer. I don't enjoy combo decks and hence try to build every deck I have without infinite interactions.
Without further ado, let's get to the fun part.
It was December 2017 when I was brainstorming ideas for a new deck. I was playing different control decks at the time, mostly Simic based ones, to very great success. I always wanted to play a Bant colored deck, but wasn't particular happy with the commander choices available, besides Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. The problem however was the super nasty stigma that was attached to Derevi rendering her as one of the biggest villains you could encounter, due to her excellent synergies with stax cards like Winter Orb. Obviously you don't want to be the archenemy from the get go, so I hesitated a little, but one month later I decided to get myself a copy and start brewing with the clear limitation of not using any stax pieces. Just a few weeks later I got myself a full art altered Derevi, because I fell in love with this commander and I absolutely love birds.
The decks first weeks were very rocky and I did not had a clear vision in mind where to take this deck. I realised that Derevi is so open ended when it comes to archetypes and at that point I also didn't understand the hate for Derevi anymore. Its literally a deck builders decision to break a card and while Derevi has undoubtly massive potential to be degenerate, it also has massive room for strategies that are fair and engagaing. The first lists I had going on where pretty creature heavy, with some equipment sprinkled in. It had similarities with Edric, Spymaster of Trest, but ultimately didn't worked out that well.
I played this deck pretty much exclusively from January 2018 to June 2018, making tons of changes, going through a massive list of cards, trying multiple archetypes and just shuffling and playing the crap out of the cards. It was around the end of April when the list finally begun to feel pretty solid and the streamlining process could start. The only thing that was in the deck from the first iteration was the equipment theme, but the rest more and more became a brutal control shell. Optimizing the list even further from there, by the time we had May 2018, the deck was a very solid contender in our meta, feared by the most competitive decks and players. I was there. Finally another deck finished and pimped out 99%.
In June I reviewed the progress I made with Derevi and I realized the similarities with another archetype... Known and hated by many players of that standard era, banned precautiously in Modern, brought back to life in Legacy and still remembered as one of the greatest decks of all time...
!!! CAWBLADE !!!
It was cool to see such overlaps are possible and I think the closest recreation of a Cawblade list for EDH I have seen was a Geist of Saint Traft list a buddy of me made. However that list was not very succesful. So, I saw the overlaps with Cawblade, Stoneblade & Deathblade thinking to myself "How do I call my EDH version of this archetype"? It didn't took long to get the name "Flashblade", one because Derevi essentially has flash, but also a significant portion of the deck is instant speed or grants my blades flash. I'm looking at you Sigarda's Aid & Alchemist's Refuge. That is how Flashblade was born and up until today I'm playing and refining this deck, with very great success. I'm looking forward to a bright future for this archetype and hope to share thoughts and discussions with the community. But now....
What the hell is Flashblade?
The original deck was a list by Brian Kibler called Caw-Go, which later was changed into Cawblade with the release of Sword of Feast and Famine. It played 4 Squadron Hawk's & 4 Stoneforge Mystic's as it's creatures, where the Squadron Hawk would hold the blade and attack, while the Stoneforge Mystic tutored for the blade and cheated it into play uncounterable. The deck also ran Jace, the Mind Sculptor to generate absurd card advantage in conjunction with Squadron Hawk's ability. The rest of the shell where typical control cards... counterspells and removal. With the release of New Phyrexia Batterskull & Sword of War and Peace were added to the deck, which made it too powerful resulting in a ban of Jace & SFM.
So, the first big similarity between Cawblade & Flashblade is the fact that a bird is holding a blade and flying to victory. I just find it funny that a bird commander is one of the best to emulate the Cawblade playstyle in EDH.
The general shell of the deck is an azorius control package, similar to the original, with some additional green utility cards that give the deck a little bit more reach. The equipment package found in the list is small but high in quality and versatility. To round out the package this list plays plenty of card advantage and card selection spells to guarantee the right cards when we need them.
In a nutshell, Flashblade is a control deck which seeks to take away your opponents tempo in small increments, while simultaniously accelerating your own tempo. This is done by carefully sequencing your spells and turns, anticipating what your opponents are up to and of course some clever politial interactions as well. The deck can play multiple roles very easily and switch between them seamless, so its in turn very hard for your opponents to anticipate what you are up to. The commander, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician has it in it's name... TACTICIAN. Thats what she is and that is what you have to become if you want to successfully pilot this deck.
The win condition of this deck is your commander itself which will mostly finish with commander damage. However, this is not a stubborn voltron deck even if you put more gear on Derevi than she could probably hold. Its merely the inevitable outcome of the consistent attacking with her over the course of a game, that finds it's peak in killing your opponents with 21 damage dealt. I would absolutely say its one of the better ways to finish in a control deck because you are not wasting precious deck slots with combo cards nor with tons of non-control cards. This is very important for an EDH control deck to function properly in fact, since we have not one but three opponents we need to control at the same time.
The deck plays very reactively, hence as the pilot of Flashblade you need to be familiar with the stack, interactions between cards, timing rules as well as your opponents individual decks and play patterns. While the original Cawblade did very often just say draw-go, the fantastic traits of Derevi, Empyrial Tactician allow us to change the tempo of the game bilaterally. More on that in the "Why Derevi" section later on.
Compared to Cawblade or Stonebade decks we have to generate way more card advantage to keep up with 3 opponents at the same time. Flashblade is able to do it by establishing multiple draw engines within a game that keep the cards flowing. Additionally you combine the steady flow of cards with small cantrips and card selection spells to make sure you find the engine cards and have a backup if the engines fail.
One of the most interesting aspects of this control deck is its ability to adapt to your opponents powerlevel. While higher powered pods require you to play way more cautiously, lower power pods enable you to play more aggressive and experimental. I've never before witnessed a control deck that can perform so vastly different in various pods, yet still keep its consistency overall. The main reason for this is of course our commander, which is complemented by a clockwork like shell that works with Derevi and with itself.
Dear Lord, I don't even know where to start, but I figured I just break down the card in it's individual components and go from there. Let's start with the basic stats.
For GWU we get a 2/3 Bird Wizard with the combat keyword flying. Nothing too spectacular here honestly. The creature type wizard might be relevant, since there is quite some support for that tribe and it will probably become more going forward. As of now the only relevant wizard tribal card for Flashblade is Wizard's Retort if you are on a budget and maybe need a replacement for something like Mana Drain.
The creature type bird matters even less so far and while there are many bird tribal cards, none but one is appropriate for this archetype. The one gem for this deck that cares about birds is Seaside Haven, which is such a great card for Flashblade. A land that serves as a sacrifice outlet, specifically for your commander drawing you a card for 1WU is actually really good and saved me multiple times from dying or bricking with my draws. It might seem small, but it's very important in a control deck to appreciate the little things.
The combat keyword flying is very relevant for this deck, since we want to attack with our commander as often as we can and get trough the lines unblocked to trigger saboteur effects. Its astonishing how many decks have serious problems with flying creatures, but that is of course a plus for us. Very rarely will we be in pods where there is not even a sinle player we can slip Derevi through. Maybe not so important, but still worth mentioning is the fact that we can block flying creatures with Derevi if we really need to.
The CMC of 3 is also perfect for a commander. I'm just obsessed with low casting cost commanders and while I tried out some with CMC 5 or higher, I was never amazed by them. There is just something about CMC 4 or lower commanders that seems to be working better in more competitive metas like mine, so I generally favor them. Now, lets get to the main ability of Derevi.
"1GWU: Put Derevi onto the battlefield from the command zone."
This activated ability is 50% of the reason why Derevi is just perfect for the Cawblade playstyle in EDH. What it essentially reads is: Flash
Derevi can't be countered.
Commander tax costs don't apply to Derevi.
My view on this ability This ability is crazy good in so many different ways and the main reason why Derevi is frowned upon. Bypassing the commander tax is serious business and in most players minds something like that shouldn't exist at all. But how breakable is it in reality? I think its certainly possible to do some degenerate stuff with this, but for the most part I think its fine and not worse than some other commander's abilities. I get the idea that WotC probabaly had in mind when designing this card. It should represent a commander that is like the wind, you can't see it coming, you can't beat the wind and the wind always comes to blow you in your face. Its actually very flavorful overall and the fact that Derevi is a bird sailing in the wind substantiates it.
In the overall picture of the EDH format she seems to be fine as well and if she really would be as problematic, we probabaly would have seen a ban already. I will agree that stax is an unfun strategy to play against in a multiplayer game where turns take very long already, but as long as Derevi isn't commanding a stax strategy she is fine. Additionally she is just a small flyer and I think this could have been way more problematic if WotC gave her higher power/toughness.
Flash
The first part we are going to look at is the ability to flash Derevi in at all times. This makes the way this deck can sequence and take actions very dynamic. Timing is very important for control decks - instant speed spells and interactions are needed. Derevi seamlessly works in conjuntion with instants, because you never have to play her into a dangerous board, worry about giving her haste and you can immediately replay her if she gets killed or - you just answer something and hold her back. Because that ability has no timing restrictions you can dogde so much stuff other commanders just can't, exactly what makes Flashblade so unique. However, this still doesn't mean you can play unresponsible with Derevi. It still costs mana to get her out and you never can afford to waste mana in control decks. Its a learning process to know when to flash her in and when to leave her back.
A nice addition to flash is that its so hard for your opponents to see your next move coming. Playing control in a multiplayer game can be like a super tight chess game and every advantage you can get is very welcome. While the pod knows that you always have the ability to bring her in, they still don't know the exact moment and that messes with them and sometimes forces mistakes and play arounds which buy you time and tempo.
Derevi can't be countered
Another great thing to have in a control deck is your threats being hard to interact with and it all begins on the stack. While technically people can counter Derevi's activated ability with Stifle-like effects, in reality that doesn't happen very often and even if, it merely postpones the inevitable and takes some tempo away from us.
The ability to dodge conventional counterspells though is gross and keeps a lot of pressure away from us that we would have with other commanders. We never have to worry about other control players threatning to counter the center piece of Flashblade, which frees up resources in return. It also allows us to count on our commander in critical situations and that threatens our opponents and forces them to always calculate with an additional variable.
Commander tax costs don't apply to Derevi.
This is the heartpiece of the ability. Playing as much tempo as Flashblade can, is only made possible because we can play our commander early and often without worries of her being expensive later on. This means we can use Derevi as an attacker that almost feels relentless and like a wasted target for your opponents removal. And that brings us to an important quality of Derevi: She drains away your opponents resources. Removal just can't stop our commander effectively and that leads to a huge decision your opponents have to make - How do I deal with this deck?
Of course there are plenty of ways to hinder or even halt Flashblade, but it requires skills, experience and some clever political interactions by your opponents.
An additional upside of this ability is the fact that our mass removals can be used without much regret and worry, since our commander will still have a stable cost. Especially in a control deck where you need to play sweepers to take away your opponents tempo and resources this is a more than welcome trait of Derevi. But let's look at her other ability.
"Whenever Derevi, Empyrial Tactician enters the battlefield or a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, you may tap or untap target permanent"
Now, this is the other reason as to why Derevi is generally the best commander for this specific playstyle. Being able to tap or untap permanents whenever she enters the battlefield or any creature we control deals combat damage opens us up to do what control decks would like to do: Freeing up lands to play stuff on your turn, while having the mana to react to your opponents.
In Flashblade we mainly use the ability to untap lands, however be aware that there is huge potential for this to synergize whith tons of other things. The interaction with something like an Isochron Scepter imprinted with a Impulse enables you to establish a card selection engine for example. The Scepter is actually the only interaction I choose to play in this deck, because we are not running enough creatures to reliably trigger multiple targets. In other Derevi lists where you would play more creatures to get triggers you could go absolutely go crazy with tap/untap shenanigans.
I want to point out that even untapping a single land each turn can go a very long way over the course of a game and while it might seem cute compared to ramp strategies, it's actually exactly tailored to a control gameplan. The cost/effectiveness ratio is actually better than playing ramp and it also means that you do not clutter your late game draws with ramp spells, which is a huge deal.
Instead of making a "Why play Derevi" section, I figured to make a specific list for this archetype, since there are many archetypes possible with this commander.
You might like Flashblade, if...
You like to play a reactive deck that still has its own synergies and is not entirely good-stuff
You like instant speed heavy decks
You love Equipments
You like to swing with creatures (Even if it's mostly just one)
You like to have a deck that scales very well across different powerlevels and metas
You like to win with combat damage
You like the idea of Voltron, but you don't want to go all-in on that route
You like huge decision trees, complicated situations and tight gameplay
You might dislike Flashblade, if...
You don't like control decks
Your meta doesn't like full control decks
You want to win with combos
You want to play very creature-heavy
You want a deck that plays itself and you don't have to think too much
You fear that you get targeted more because of your commander
You are super winning oriented and don't value a tight race
You say there is nothing in battlebond.
But seem to me that Krav, the unredeemed and Regna, the redeemer have at least some interest.
They both fetch each other, one is a self buffing sac outlet that draw cards and give life and the other is a token generator that can trigger on ech opponent turns...
Well, I do agree that these two seem a fit for this type of strategy, as both literally do something that the deck wants. The problem however is their mana cost.
Krav, the unredeemed is a 5 drop that wants you to pay B to activate him so even one use out of him is 6 mana total. That is just not cost efficient, even with the life gain as an additional upside.
Regna, the redeemer is a 6 drop and you need to gain life and have her to be on the battlefield to get the white tokens. You might not be gaining life every turn in this deck though and if you just want the tokens there are certainly better options around. Elspeth, Sun's Champion would be way better, and even she is too expensive for what she does in my opinion.
I just think there is not enough room for 5+ drops in an aristocrat deck and these two just lack in terms of power and synergy compared to other choices. Even the fact that one tutors the other doesn't make it better. They're a nice gimmick if nothing else.
This archetype wants to chain spells together in the late game, so they should not be to expensive. The main focus of the mana curve should be 2 and 3 drops, so by turn 6 you can play multiples in a turn or have mana free for any sort of activation.
I haven't been through all the pages in this thread yet, but I haven't seen any mention of the combo between Leonin Relic-Warder and a reanimation enchantment like Animate Dead or Dance of the Dead. With a creature like Zulaport Cutthroat and a sac outlet it's an easy game over. With Razaketh, the Foulblooded it's tutor for whatever you want until you run out of life.
Wow, I never thought of that interaction. But now that I think about it, I think you don't necessarily need a sac outlet to make this work. Say I cast Animate Dead targeting the Leonin Relic-Warder in your yard, it then enters the battlefield and you target Animate Dead with the Warders ETB trigger, trigger resolves and Animate Dead goes to exile triggering to sacrifice Leonin Relic-Warder, which when sacrificed triggers to bring back Animate Dead which then starts the loop again. I think this is how it should work.
You could however when Animate Dead leaves the battlefield and the sacrifice trigger goes on the stack, sacrifice the Leonin Relic-Warder to something like Ashnod's Altar in response to get CC. Then the Relic Warders LTB goes on the stack which brings back Animate Dead and you are left where you started, except that the sacrifice trigger from Animate Dead is still on the stack, which does not do anything since your Leonin Relic-Warder is a new object already. Pretty sure this is how it works
Nonetheless this is a great interaction I wasn't aware of, even though I play all the pieces in my deck and I considered myself an Aristocrats Veteran But hey, you never stop learning in Magic.
Thanks to WotC for printing so many redundant versions of Blood Artist/ Grave Pact/ and Dark Prophecy effects, I feel like the lower CMC/combo stax version of this deck has some real competitive legs.
Im also looking at Desecrated Tomb but I feel that it might be too cute
I'm running this deck religiously for many years now and it's always a blast to play with it, even after all these years. You can find my specific deck list here. There is an unfinished Primer on that tappedout page, which I definitely want to continue, but just didn't found the time to do so.
It's noteworthy that my list is more of a control-Aristorats deck, which is not optimized for combos, even though it has some in the deck. That stems from the fact, that I am not a fan of inifinte combos and cards that just go in the deck, solely to form a combo. When I stopped playing Teysa as a combo variant, the deck became way more robust, more fun to pilot and way stronger than it's combo variants. It's hard to avoid combos completely in aristocrat decks, simply because cards like Phyrexian Altar or Nim Deathmantle are just very good in the deck, even without going infinite. Anyway, feel free to check my list out if you feel so.
As for the current state of Teysa, Orzhov Scion in commander, I think the deck is in a good place and pretty competitive in 75% metas. Even though this deck did not nearly get as many new toys than some other commanders, it still got a few good ones. I started to build this deck in early 2016 and really began to play commander extensively when Kaldesh came out. I figuered as a Teysa lover I should contribute to this thread and give my opinion on a set by set basis on new cards for the deck since Kaladesh. I wanted to do it for a long time, but just now found the time to do so
Kaladesh
Overall I think Kaladesh was a pretty weak set for this deck, even though the powerlevel of the set itself was ridiculous. We got Concealed Courtyard as another manafixing land and many Teysa players wanted to make Aetherworks Marvel work. It works, I tried it as well, but I generally think it is too overkill and fragile. By the time you make this thing work consistently every turn, you could already do something more impactful. It's still a fine card and really great in an aristocrat deck.
Commander 2016
While being the best Commander Set since it's creation in my opinion, this set brought nothing in terms of new cards for aristocrats, besides Breya, Etherium Shaper, which can be a very, very good aristocrats commander with artifact synergy.
Aether Revolt
This set brought us Yahenni, Undying Partisan, if we need an additional sac outlet on a stick that also can gain indestructable. The better card from this set though is Hidden Stockpile. We can pretty much trigger this every turn without going through a big hassle. Every body counts for aristocrats and this has also an inbuild sac outlet. I'm generally very impressed with this card and have never put it out of the deck so far. It's like a hybrid between Bitterblossom and Viscera Seer, which both are fantastic cards for this deck.
Amonkhet
We got Anointed Procession which was considered a big breaktrough by Teysa players, as far as I know. I will say this much, if it sticks around it will win the game. The problem is that you have to spend 4 mana doing nothing and it can be destroyed before you even get use out of it. It's similar to Aetherworks Marvel in that it is a win more card. I tested it and for my meta it defintely was too slow, so I am not running it. I feel the deck is very fine creating enough bodys without it. In slower metas it's probably ruining other player's life.
Hour of Devastation
While being a homerun for me as a Nicol Bolas fan, nothing new for Teysa here.
Commander 2017
C17 gave us Vindictive Lich. I wouldn't say its a key card nor did it stuff holes that the deck might have, but it certainly is powerful in a strategy that can sac its dudes and recur them to do it all over again. We also got Teferi's Protection as a white good stuff card, but I don't see the need to run it in this deck.
Ixalan
Again, nothing to be gained from this set unfortunately. I tried Dowsing Dagger for some time in my list as a ramp card and it worked very well overall. But it's not really a specific Aristocrat card to be honest.
Rivals of Ixalan
This set brought us Pitiless Plunderer, which is an insane card for this playstyle. It helps to ramp by just doing your thing and it enables critical turns way sooner than normal. If you haven't tried this guy, give him a go. This set also gave us Elenda, the Dusk Rose which I heard good things about, but never actually tested. I think she is to slow at producing tokens and 4 drops should be kept at a minimum if you ask me.
Dominaria
The only card from Dominaria worth mentioning is Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle. While not necessarily a typical Aristocrat card, the trigger is STRONG! So strong in fact that I tried her in my list where I have only 11 cards (including Teysa) that could trigger her, but still was positively surprised of how powerful she is. She is great for the critical turn where you want to win and having a free Unearth for casting your commander is gross.
Battlebond
Nothing of interest here.
M19
Militia Bugler and Open the Graves are cards the see play, but I think both of them are inferior to other choices we have.
Commander 2018
Nope, nothing.
Guilds of Ravnica
Plenty of stuff from Guilds to try out at least. I start with the strongest: Plaguecrafter is an upgraded Fleshbag Marauder and Midnight Reaper a variant on Grim Haruspex. Both see plenty of play and now we can add redundancy to the effect and/or replace them. Some more testing needs to happen, but I'm sure both of them will find a home in my list.
Gruesome Menagerie is another card that is very strong here, I still don't know though, what to cut and if I actually need it in my list. It's like a mini Living Death, but my problem is that I rather play the real thing and go for smaller recur effects in enchantment form like Animate Dead, because Sun Titan can recur them.
A card that hasn't been listed before is Mausoleum Secrets. I think it is at least worth a try. Instant speed tutor is great, there are plenty of high profile black targets in our deck and as soon as we have 3-5 creatures in the yard its online. Most lists have enough creatures to make it work I think, its just not an early game tutor, but could fetch your win cons. I will return once I gathered more experience with it.
Other than that I don't think there is anything noteworthy. Doom Whisperer just isn't the type of card for an aristocrat deck. Its flashy and big and most importantly NEW, but it will not earn a hall of fame spot for this deck. Same with Divine Visitation which is cute and overkill.
And there we have it. Rememeber, this is just my opinion on this deck and your goals for this deck might differ. I still hope this post helped and I will make sure to check by this thread more often now. I mean, we have the next set on the horizon and this time we get REAL Orzhov cards. I can't wait and hope we get new toys for this great commander and hopefully the Orzhov Guild Kit will have an alternate Art version of Teysa, Orzhov Scion. The original just does not come close to the newer Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts's fabulous artwork by Karla Ortiz.
Aside from limited, the only real application the lockets might have are Commander, and I'd rather have Commander's Sphere.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I really like the idea of these, but did they really needed to make the ability to draw two cards cost 4 colored mana? Would it be to broken if that would cost 3 or even 2 mana to activate?
Really interesting deck ideas and mini primers for Saheeli, the Gifted. I like a lot of your ideas, even though I am not a big fan of combo decks, it shows the general potential of Saheeli.
I started to brainstorm her as well and I will put my first list with her together tomorrow. (I am still awaiting some cards for it, which are in the mail.)
I play her in the 99 of a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager grixis artifacts list, which has a planeswalker subtheme and I was nothing but astonished by her powerlevel. She really seems to be the best of the 4 new planeswalker commanders, because of the open ended nature of her abilities. The only thing she wants you to play is a bunch of artifacts, which could very well be mostly mana producing ones and maybe a few utility artifacts. Other than that you are free to experiment around with themes.
For my first draft I want to explore a spellslinger theme, with a thievery subtheme. Cards like Swarm Intelligence, Sunbird's Invocation & Mind's Dilation should all be pretty busted with her affinity for artifacts ability. Also Chaos Wand seems great, as well as Blatant Thievery & Entrancing Melody. I defnitely want a deck that scales a little bit with your opponents and generally plays a slower, control-ish game with counterspells and such.
Definetly hyped to see how it will work out. If you have any suggestions for such a gameplan let me know
Will the spell if X is zero still target the creature?
Thanks in advance
SubstaX
I totally agree with you on Derevi. She is definetely one of the best designed commanders compared to many other options. The resason why I think so is the fact that she perfectly encapsules the color identity of Bant in one card, better than any other Bant general. Uncounterable is a Bant thing, Flash is a Bant thing, always ready to be there for your troops, no matter what, Tapping/Untapping things is Bant and also garanting that ability to other creatures you control is perfectly in the spirit of Bant. As you said, if anything else she might be designed to well as we don't have commanders in other identities which are the same, iconic and fitting representant for their shard/wedge.
Even from a powerlevel standpoint she is fine these days, at least for multiplayer. Just a very well rounded and competetive commander
Can you list all commanders that dodge commander tax one way or the other? I know a few which essentially never are affected by commander tax in the right build, like Karador, Ghost Chieftain or Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.
Glad that the topic peeked your interest. I have a decklist of Flashblade on tapped out Here. There is also a primer that I started in the Multiplayer Commander section of this forum. You have to scroll through the pages to find it. Flashblade is however only one version to play Derevi and it's not the best I have come up with so far. It's essentially a control deck that tries to finish with commander damage and plays heavy equipment synergies. It's a fun and powerful deck, but really lacks in some creature heavy metas. But it's defintely a pretty fair version of Derevi and if you are into equipments you might like it.
I really need to find the time to update the Primer with some of the other non-stax options I have come up with, since some are more powerful or a lot more fun. But what I can only urge you to do is: Experiment. There are literally endless builds possible as Derevi is incredible versatile and supportive.
I have certainly considered to build the happy hippo myself and actually might do so in the future. You bring up a lot of good points why it is a very good commander for control-politics gameplay in Bant colors. But as you pointed out it still feels like a meme to build a serious deck around god ol Phelda.
Very good points made here. Well, to come back to my meta I would not say it is cEDH all the time, but rather right on the edge towards cEDH. There are some cEDH decks floating around here and there, but its not tier 1 stuff all the time. That being said I'm also not running the most cut-throat Derevi brews of course, hence why I think there is no room to complain at all.
Yea, this happened to me a few times already, but to be fair, it was a corner case I still thought would be worth mentioning. But even if I don't get such childish complaints, I got other ridiculous ones. The deck is no joke after all, but I let other people play with my deck as well and I didn't noticed any unsolvable problems whatssoever. The winrate isn't super high either, so I don't know...
Yea, I have seen a Kozilek deck in the past and it's quite similar in terms of hate that it draws. I agree with players, annihalator is nothing to underestimate, but sometimes people take the pitchfork runup onto another level. ^^
Okay still thank you for your opinion, even you play on a more leaned back powerlevel. It still means something. I absolutely agree that you can play fair with most commanders and that is actually what I wanted to from the beginning on. I also made it clear to the players in my playgroup that they do not need to fear Winter Orb or something in that vein.
Well, this topic every now and then gets brought up in forums and playgroups and since I am a passionate Bant player, I am brewing with Derevi, Empyrial Tactician for over a year now. There are multiple reasons why I've been running Derevi for all my Bant needs, but mainly because she is the only competitive option for Bant as of today. This is obviously subjective and some might disagree, but hear me out and let me give you some context.
The goal of this thread is to gather valuable opinions by other players, wether you have experience playing with or against Derevi, or not. I'm a person who is generally caring about good games, fun & fair experiences, so outside input is a way to get valuable information and input, hence why I created this topic.
My Goals and Visions - What Deck do I want to play
Ever since I've been playing EDH I loved decks full with interactions! I also love turning creatures sideways and win with plain and simple combat damage! I love some good old value generation and rather pick a more leaned back approach so I maximise my staying power in the game. If you combine these attributes you end up with the Tempo archetype, a mix between aggro and control, leaning either more to one side or being a very balanced blend. While this archetype spawned many succesful decks across all different 1v1 formats, it's rather underwhelming in EDH, due to the nature of a multiplayer format. These decks heavily rely on tempo generating or tempo decreasing cards that are simply not designed to go against multiple opponents at once and fail miserably in EDH.
On my journey of creating a true EDH tempo deck I eventually stumbled across Derevi, Empyrial Tactician after I had almost given up. I tried to realise this archetype in many different ways, using commanders like Geist of Saint Traft or Thrasios, Triton Hero, but they never reached the power and effeciency level that was required to compete against the formats Tier 1-2 decks. This is of course due to the archetypes bad position in a multiplayer format, but my drive to create a functioning tempo deck was so strong that I eventually overcame its weakness and was able to build multiple succesful builds.
Derevi, in my honest opinion, is the only general which can put tempo into the competetive realm and do so in a sheer unlimted amount of flavors and variations. Starting with the infamous Derevi stax list (which isn't a traditional tempo deck if you ask me), Flashblade (my own creation which is essentially EDH's version of Caw Blade), Tokenflash (another creation by me using instant speed token spells to swarm the board), Wizardball (A wizard combo deck) over to flicker based value decks and everything in between. This commander is the incarnation of versatility!
The Meta - How the Pod matters
If we as humans want to measure something and give a true, unbiased assesment we need to look at things holistically. In terms of commanders and decks we need to not only look at the general and the deck itself, but rather look at the planned application as well. I will make it very clear here: It does not make any sense to measure a Doomsday combo deck in relation to a The Ur-Dragon precon. I really want to emphasize that, because I don't want players to express concerns or shout BAN DEREVI! just because they don't like to play on a certain power level or their beloved tribal deck got crushed by a tier 1 deck. I 100% agree that some decks just should not be brought to more casual tables and if they are, the chances are high that it will frustrate players and give a wrong perception. Now with that out of the way, let's get into my meta.
I regularly go against very powerful decks settled in around the 75% mark, sometimes a bit higher or a bit lower, consisting of all different archetypes. Generally even decks that might not have a real cEDH variant are very powerful and tough to go against. The composition of play pods varies from game to game, so I never know wether I go against 3 combo decks, 1 stax & 2 control decks, 1 aggro & 2 combo decks and so on......
There is a high number of very good decks present in my meta and many of them use pretty degenerate stuff that wins ranging from turn 3-7 if not stopped.
Here is a list of some decks I go up against:
- Tasigur, The Golden Fang Combo-Control
- Zur the Enchanter Voltron-Control
- Breya, Etherium Shaper Artifacts-Combo
- Thrasios, Triton Hero & Tymna the Weaver Doomsday or Breakfasthulk Combo
- Kess, Dissident Mage Storm or other Combo
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician Stax
- Brago, King Eternal Stax
- Karador, Ghost Chieftain Reanimator Combo
- Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim Reanimator-Control
- Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge Storm or other Combo
- Varina, Lich Queen Combo-Control
and many more!!!Grumpy Players - Reaction to Justice
I've been going up against these powerful decks for over 2 years now and I've since stayed true to some of my own virtues: No infinite combos, play hard, but fair and never pass your turn with out two untapped islands! I've seriously learned and improved a lot since 2016 and I still do. I've been working hard to perfect the art of playing tempo in EDH and worked on my decks with such a dedication that I can truly say: I am proud of what I have achieved! I have overcome the supreme discipline, playing against 3 tuned combo decks at the same time and winning with combat damage! I have taken the role of the control player in our group and because of that have taken my friends deck building and piloting to the next level! I have had hours of fantastic interactions with very good friends and I can truly say that the EDH community as a whole has been nothing but amazing to me!
However, very recently I had some players in my meta complain about my decks. I've heard phrases like: cheating commander tax is broken, untapping all your stuff is too strong, I hate that you always counter my important spells when I want to go infinite, your deck has to many interactions with others and itself, you and your damn Mask of Memory, has anyone a Pithing Needle for trade?...
It's been certainly polarizing for me and my tempo bird lately and while some players complained, others say Derevi is perfectly fine as is. To give some additional context I've been brewing multiple Derevi decks at the same time for over 1 year and I can say without a doubt: I have mastered the Bird in many different ways. Since I started brewing however I stayed true to all my values and goals I set: No infinite combos, no stax pieces and if you want to win.... better swing some creatures sideways. Isn't this one of the most honest ways to tackle deck building? Isn't it a very well deserved win if you did win in your combat phase, in a format that is certainly anti-creature? Isn't it important to have a master of diplomacy available as commander, that fights for the good cause in a world full of corruption and betrayal?
I've had someone come to me and say: "Yesterday after our game evening I was lying in the bed and just couldn't sleep because I was thinking about our game where you had Wilderness Reclamation out and sacced Derevi, Empyrial Tactician each turn into Seaside Haven to draw a card". I had a smile on my face hearing that and he continued that it is overpowered and shouldn't be possible. But is it? Is it really overpowered to spend 2GWWUU to draw a card and tap or untap target permanent? I don't think so. Other decks are winning the game with 7 mana. I surely agree that Derevi can pull of all sorts of crazy shenanigans that many other commanders can't, but is that really a reason to hate her? Other commanders have different ways to be abused, some of which are way higher on the degeneracy scale, and no one is complaining on the same level, or at all, as they do with Derevi for years.
See through the Eyes of the Bird - My personal assessment
While its hard to avoid being subjetive, especially if you're like me and love Derevi, I still tried to maintain some objectivity when looking at her in the greater picture of our format. Obviously she had to go in 1v1 french commander and if nothing else that is a sign that we are talking about a "serious business" commander. Of course decisons that are made for that format do not translate well into multiplayer at all, it's only a small indicator. Actually I will go as far and say that almost all commanders which are problematic in 1v1 aren't in multiplayer.
In terms of Derevi stax lists I can truly understand why people would not like to go up against something like that, especially if they are not equipped to do something against it or just don't enjoy being taxed for everything they do. I actually don't super enjoy playing against stax but every now and then I'll take the challenge. But I will say something here which many people seem to avoid: It is stax that you probably don't like, not Derevi, and while she is probably the commander that supports this playstyle the best, its still an otional and concious decision by the deck builder to run her as a stax general, which I don't.
If I should formulate one sentence about Derevi it would be: Derevi is the best that could have happened to the competetive side of EDH!
In a world where combo decks take the supreme spot of the power scale it is in my honest opinion very important to have a counterbalance existent in the format and while some generals can apply for this job, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician takes the supreme spot on that side of the scale. Control decks in general lack in terms of quality when they go up against the best of the best and that is especially true when you make the concious decision to not run a combo-control deck. Fortunately Derevi gives all players an outlet who choose to take that path and she does it in a brilliant very open ended way.
As said earlier, I do agree with players that Derevi can pull of some crazy next-level plays and most decks that I have build took a lot advantage of her unique traits. But we need to truly ask ourselves what the outcome of these interactions is in relation to other commanders interactions or individual cards. Sacrificing Derevi for some value and just replaying her might seem flashy and unfair for some players, but if you start to put this into perspective with other interactions, you start to realize how "cute" some of it is. Like I said earlier, the interaction with Seaside Haven is great, but 7 mana for 1 card and a tap/untap trigger? Necropotence might have a word with you.
I could continue forever, showing how many cards or synergies are more effecient than the shenanigans Derevi can pull of, but that is beyond the point. Rather I will talk about some very general observations that I made. There are people complaining about winning game states, which can be huge in Derevi decks, just have no basis to complain. For example, if my decks win, its been a hard fight over resources and a win in the most honest way possible, through combat, and if opposing players can't do anything to stop that from happening they should probably work on their decks. I have the philosophy that if a deck is well constructed, at some point it should almost feel unstopable. If players happen to find themselves often in these situations, they should really try to pin point the issues why they find themselves in such situations and I can tell you in 99% of the cases the issue lies within their own deck and for the other 1% it's just that they brought a deck that shouldn't be played against Tier 1-2 decks.
Additionally, people who build glas-canon combo decks can't complain if a good control deck will stop them from combo-ing regularly. Just build a better deck and don't rely on combos alone. I've seen this so often that combo players get super mad if they rush into their combo, get stopped and after it just sit there for statistical reasons. That is just bad building & piloting and you can't blame that on opposing decks and their pilots.
Conclusion: Wether you like Derevi or not, I truly believe that she fulfills an important role in our format and I will stand up for the cause, no matter what. Some people in the community were demanding a ban over the years and I am very happy that it didn't happen. As far as I know that also won't change in the future and that is good thing, because it would not only remove a serious contender for the competetive scene, but also make a lot of casual people sad that enjoy Derevi as their Bird-Tribal commander and what not. What I will say here though: It's about time for another competetive general in Bant colors, which is what this color combination desperately needs.
Retrospective - To the readers
Please take my invitation and use this place to discuss everything Derevi. I'll appreciate every bit of input you contribute to this thread.
Sincerly
SubstaX
If I am not mistaken, Teysa isn't the guild leader right? So then it would make more sense that she survives.
Hey man, thank you for the nice words and encouraging me to keep writing. I will definitely do it, right now I'm just a little bit busy with moving to a new flat but once that is sorted out I will keep adding to the thread.
I agree with you that artifact hate is very prevalent in EDH, in my meta as well. Sometimes more sometimes less. I generally have my equipments around most the times and I'm going to elaborate on some cards in the deck that help me to make sure that they stay on the board. First and foremost though, you never want to over extend with them, so if a boardwipe hits the field you have blades in your hand to follow up with. It's very important to read the game, so you know exactly when to drop equipments and when to better hold back. This is especially true for the big finisher equipments like Runechanter's Pike & Blackblade Reforged. You never want to drop them early, because they don't do a lot besides making your opponents pay attention to your board.
The first category of cards that help to have equipments around are protection spells, namely Heroic Intervention and Teferi's Protection. I can't stress out enough how good these two are, especially if you combine them with something like Hour of Revelation to save your own stuff, but blow the world up. In response to your opponents these are very good as well of course.
Second category are just simple and easy counterspells. That's the reason why they are so good, right? They can act as a form of protection for your own stuff or to prevent your opponents from developing their board or resolving a combo.
Lastly, Academy Ruins, Noxious Revival and Reap help to gain them back if stuff already is in the yard. It's not much recursion, I agree, but I never had huge problems with my stuff being blown up. In the end of the day I think it's all a combination of saving your recursion for the right moment, playing your equipments a the right time and never over extending too much, so you stay under the radar.
I hope this helps you a little and I would definitely recommend to sell your soul to Derevi
Greetings SubstaX
The first thing that I re-realized was how tight the gameplay with this archetype is. There is no room for mistakes and unfortunately I did make a few yesterday which cost me in the end. It's certainly a list that you have to play extensively to become the best possible pilot and being abscent from playing it a few months, piloting many other decks, caused me to make some small mistakes here and there. So I decided to get more playtime down with it again from now on.
One thing that I witnessed in all 4 games though was one or more situations where I was exactly one mana short of handling a situation perfectly and that certainly sucked. Once it was a critical counterspell that I just couldn't cast, the other game it wasn't possible to sequence mana efficient and in the other 2 games I was literally going into the finishing state of the game, but my mana supply was to low and I could not handle the repercussions of my opponents, trying to stop me. So here are the changes I decided to make based on yesterdays eperience.
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Supreme Will
1 Careful Consideration
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 One with Nature
1 Thrasios, Triton Hero
So all the 3 cards I'm taking out were cards I questioned earlier already. As with most decks, this is not 100%, though its close. Over the long course of bulding this deck these 3 defintely felt the weakest, so it wasn't too hard to cut them.
Out
Thassa, God of the Sea: It's a fine card and scrying on each upkeep helps control decks to get the relevant stuff. On top of that she offered a way to make Derevi unblockable against players with strong flying defenses. However, it always feels bad to spend 3 mana on the turn she comes down and doing asolutely nothing. On top of that I realized that flyers, if present, aren't that big of a deal to get rid of for this deck, so thats why she gets the cut.
Supreme Will: A card that got added for its modal nature. I found myself very often casting the Impulse mode, which I wasn't too thrilled about for 2U. While the Mana Leak mode can be a really great tempo play early on, it sucks very often in the late game. I need my counters to be more reliable and my cantrips to be cheaper so I take it out.
Careful Consideration: I played this card because it looks very deep for its mana cost while being an instant. I did knew though that this card will probabaly be replaced down the road, because for 4 mana it's not giving us enough raw card advantage, especially if we cast it outside of our main phase.
In
Carpet of Flowers: I've been sitting on this card for quite a while, not sure where to play it in. This card is getting hot lately in competitive EDH for good reason. Since I am in a very blue meta, which EDH seems to be in general, I think this could do a good figure in Flashblade. The mana can only be used in our main phases, but that is mostly the time where we want to play equipments, equip them or cast other sorcery speed things. That mana should free up lands for our opponents turns, which is exactly what we want. Also, it's super effecient costing only G and has the potential to be a Mega-Sol Ring.
One with Nature: That's another hidden gem I already played in this deck before. Even if we only get one use out of it it's a Rampant Growth for G which is great. If we however trigger it a couple times it reaches astronomical effeciency levels. Works very good with double strike as well.
Thrasios, Triton Hero: This is a card I have a very positive relationship with, played him as a commander on and off since his release. He is a very good control commander himself and he should function in the 99 of Flashblade as well. His ability is relevant at all times of a game and having a quality mana sink can never hurt. Also he tackles the problem of being one mana short very easily
Conclusion
While I did take out 2 instants overall with this revison and added a creature, which is generally not prefered, I did lower the average CMC quite a a bit. Hopefully these changes help me to get more consistency with my mana availability and prevent me from being to much behind opponents that are ramping hard. While Flashblade does not want to play a ramp game of course, having some extra lands or mana for a cheap price certainly can't hurt. I make sure to report on the outcome and if anyone has some further suggestions they are much appreciated.
SubstaX
Thank you for your comment and your suggestions. Much appreciated on my side.
True Conviction: I was actually thinking the same way for a long time until I tested it to finally conclude if it is worth it. It is so far. The reason I play this is that I need sources of lifegain, because with that low creature count your life can get pretty low sometimes. Additionally this enchantment grants double-strike which is so damn powerful with many of the saboteur effects in this list, including Derevi her own. Also, you have to count its mana cost different. While it costs 3WWW on its own if you attack with Derevi hitting for double-strike and you untap 2 lands it now becomes just 2WW for example. If you have a Karoo Land like Selesnya Sanctuary in play, the discount is even better.
So in conclusion, this enchantment really pressures your opponents to do something about it and if not you are very likely to run away with the game. I've done this multiple times.
Dromoka's Command: It's just a fine modal spell in my opinion. The preventing of instant or sorcery damage isn't very useful often, though it did save me a few times. Making someone sac an enchantment is great and the other two modes work very well with Derevi. Giving her a counter than let her fight something troublesome. I think its in here for it's sheer flexibilty.
Reap: Man, this is such a strong card and not just a meta call. I play it in all green decks that want to run this type of effect. Worst case - no one playing black, you just discard it with loot effects. Moderate case - someone has one black permanent, you get an instant speed Regrowth. Best case - someone having 3+ black permanents, you have an instant speed upgraded version of Yawgmoth's Will for 1G. Upgraded because you don't have to play the cards immediatly and can potentially return even more than you would play with a Will anyways. Let's be honest black is one of, if not the most popular color in EDH. This card is just bonkers and such a hidden gem. Its also great in an Isochron Scepter.
No Rewind: Well, this is simply due to the fact that I don't have more room for counterspells as of now. The ones I have are either cheaper, have some extras or are part of a modal spell which I value more. I agree though that it's a fine option.
No Rhystic Study: I hate this card a lot. It is good if you drop it early game and it goes unanswered for some turns, but in the late game this card is horrible beyond belief. It's not drawing you cards reliably enough and I can't afford to have a card like that in this specific list, which is tight when it comes to draw effects. Mystic Remora on the other hand just costs a single U and the tax is way higher, so no one will pay 4 to keep me from drawing cards. Also if you drop it late game its very likely to be a situation where your opponents need to deal with your stuff and very often that is done with noncreature spells, so the limitation isn't really a big deal. I generally think that Mystic Remora is the better card for more competitive metas honestly. And on top of that I just personally dislike Rhystic Study. It has the potential to really warp the game around it and and I hate cards like that. If someone plays a Study I simply ignore it and let them draw their cards, because I'm a guy that likes to play many spells a turn, so I can't afford to be taxed for every damn spell. If I get the chance to get rid of a Study I will do it in an eye blink though.
Sphinx's Revelation: Its a super good card I tried before. I'm still investigating wether I need a big draw effect though. Very often the draw engines in this deck are working good and my premise for draw spells in this deck was "Look as deep as you can, for as low mana cost possible", so I would personally favor Pull from Tomorrow. One thing on top of that is the fact that if you are a control player you don't want to draw more cards than you can hold in your hand and have to discard all your precious answers. I think its important to strike the balance here. Good suggestion nonetheless and I will ivestigate this further.
Rout: I mean, I have Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, Hour of Revelation, Evacuation & Cyclonic Rift. I think 5 sweepers is more than enough, considering my opponents play sweepers as well and I have some spot removal on top of that. Rout never really impressed me in most decks. I should give it a try in this list maybe.
Hey guys and welcome! I wanted to share this decklist for a long time and now I feel confident enough to do so. I want to turn this into a primer eventually, but that will surely take some time and effort. So for now I will keep it pretty basic and work my way to a more comprehensive thread.
Update 02/20/2019: I started to work on this thread again after a pretty long break due to massive personal life shake-ups. Over the last couple of months I started to build a second, independent decklist, which I will organize and update all in the same thread, because they share a lot in common. So I have essentially two deck lists and sections that I'll try my best to merge together in an organized way.
I was introduced to a local meta which consists out of around 20 players, playing decks of different powerlevels and flavors. I'm living in a small student town where new players come to the meta every other semester so it never gets stale. I would describe my meta as 75%. Pretty competetive for the most part, but still not cEDH, which is a very pleasing powerlevel for me. There are strong plays made, yet everyone can still please their inner Timmy and try some obscure stuff.
Since November 2016 I've been investing heavily into the format, both time and money, and I increased my skills as a deckbuilder and player significantly compared to the old days. EDH is a format where I feel home, able to try out almost everything I want and express myself with my commander and the underlying strategy. Some of my favorite strategies are sacrifice based aristocrat decks, like Teysa, Orzhov Scion and as far as my meta goes I am taking the role of the control guy that always has an answer. I don't enjoy combo decks and hence try to build every deck I have without infinite interactions.
Without further ado, let's get to the fun part.
The decks first weeks were very rocky and I did not had a clear vision in mind where to take this deck. I realised that Derevi is so open ended when it comes to archetypes and at that point I also didn't understand the hate for Derevi anymore. Its literally a deck builders decision to break a card and while Derevi has undoubtly massive potential to be degenerate, it also has massive room for strategies that are fair and engagaing. The first lists I had going on where pretty creature heavy, with some equipment sprinkled in. It had similarities with Edric, Spymaster of Trest, but ultimately didn't worked out that well.
I played this deck pretty much exclusively from January 2018 to June 2018, making tons of changes, going through a massive list of cards, trying multiple archetypes and just shuffling and playing the crap out of the cards. It was around the end of April when the list finally begun to feel pretty solid and the streamlining process could start. The only thing that was in the deck from the first iteration was the equipment theme, but the rest more and more became a brutal control shell. Optimizing the list even further from there, by the time we had May 2018, the deck was a very solid contender in our meta, feared by the most competitive decks and players. I was there. Finally another deck finished and pimped out 99%.
In June I reviewed the progress I made with Derevi and I realized the similarities with another archetype... Known and hated by many players of that standard era, banned precautiously in Modern, brought back to life in Legacy and still remembered as one of the greatest decks of all time...
It was cool to see such overlaps are possible and I think the closest recreation of a Cawblade list for EDH I have seen was a Geist of Saint Traft list a buddy of me made. However that list was not very succesful. So, I saw the overlaps with Cawblade, Stoneblade & Deathblade thinking to myself "How do I call my EDH version of this archetype"? It didn't took long to get the name "Flashblade", one because Derevi essentially has flash, but also a significant portion of the deck is instant speed or grants my blades flash. I'm looking at you Sigarda's Aid & Alchemist's Refuge. That is how Flashblade was born and up until today I'm playing and refining this deck, with very great success. I'm looking forward to a bright future for this archetype and hope to share thoughts and discussions with the community. But now....
What the hell is Flashblade?
The original deck was a list by Brian Kibler called Caw-Go, which later was changed into Cawblade with the release of Sword of Feast and Famine. It played 4 Squadron Hawk's & 4 Stoneforge Mystic's as it's creatures, where the Squadron Hawk would hold the blade and attack, while the Stoneforge Mystic tutored for the blade and cheated it into play uncounterable. The deck also ran Jace, the Mind Sculptor to generate absurd card advantage in conjunction with Squadron Hawk's ability. The rest of the shell where typical control cards... counterspells and removal. With the release of New Phyrexia Batterskull & Sword of War and Peace were added to the deck, which made it too powerful resulting in a ban of Jace & SFM.
So, the first big similarity between Cawblade & Flashblade is the fact that a bird is holding a blade and flying to victory. I just find it funny that a bird commander is one of the best to emulate the Cawblade playstyle in EDH.
The general shell of the deck is an azorius control package, similar to the original, with some additional green utility cards that give the deck a little bit more reach. The equipment package found in the list is small but high in quality and versatility. To round out the package this list plays plenty of card advantage and card selection spells to guarantee the right cards when we need them.
In a nutshell, Flashblade is a control deck which seeks to take away your opponents tempo in small increments, while simultaniously accelerating your own tempo. This is done by carefully sequencing your spells and turns, anticipating what your opponents are up to and of course some clever politial interactions as well. The deck can play multiple roles very easily and switch between them seamless, so its in turn very hard for your opponents to anticipate what you are up to. The commander, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician has it in it's name... TACTICIAN. Thats what she is and that is what you have to become if you want to successfully pilot this deck.
The win condition of this deck is your commander itself which will mostly finish with commander damage. However, this is not a stubborn voltron deck even if you put more gear on Derevi than she could probably hold. Its merely the inevitable outcome of the consistent attacking with her over the course of a game, that finds it's peak in killing your opponents with 21 damage dealt. I would absolutely say its one of the better ways to finish in a control deck because you are not wasting precious deck slots with combo cards nor with tons of non-control cards. This is very important for an EDH control deck to function properly in fact, since we have not one but three opponents we need to control at the same time.
The deck plays very reactively, hence as the pilot of Flashblade you need to be familiar with the stack, interactions between cards, timing rules as well as your opponents individual decks and play patterns. While the original Cawblade did very often just say draw-go, the fantastic traits of Derevi, Empyrial Tactician allow us to change the tempo of the game bilaterally. More on that in the "Why Derevi" section later on.
Compared to Cawblade or Stonebade decks we have to generate way more card advantage to keep up with 3 opponents at the same time. Flashblade is able to do it by establishing multiple draw engines within a game that keep the cards flowing. Additionally you combine the steady flow of cards with small cantrips and card selection spells to make sure you find the engine cards and have a backup if the engines fail.
One of the most interesting aspects of this control deck is its ability to adapt to your opponents powerlevel. While higher powered pods require you to play way more cautiously, lower power pods enable you to play more aggressive and experimental. I've never before witnessed a control deck that can perform so vastly different in various pods, yet still keep its consistency overall. The main reason for this is of course our commander, which is complemented by a clockwork like shell that works with Derevi and with itself.
For GWU we get a 2/3 Bird Wizard with the combat keyword flying. Nothing too spectacular here honestly. The creature type wizard might be relevant, since there is quite some support for that tribe and it will probably become more going forward. As of now the only relevant wizard tribal card for Flashblade is Wizard's Retort if you are on a budget and maybe need a replacement for something like Mana Drain.
The creature type bird matters even less so far and while there are many bird tribal cards, none but one is appropriate for this archetype. The one gem for this deck that cares about birds is Seaside Haven, which is such a great card for Flashblade. A land that serves as a sacrifice outlet, specifically for your commander drawing you a card for 1WU is actually really good and saved me multiple times from dying or bricking with my draws. It might seem small, but it's very important in a control deck to appreciate the little things.
The combat keyword flying is very relevant for this deck, since we want to attack with our commander as often as we can and get trough the lines unblocked to trigger saboteur effects. Its astonishing how many decks have serious problems with flying creatures, but that is of course a plus for us. Very rarely will we be in pods where there is not even a sinle player we can slip Derevi through. Maybe not so important, but still worth mentioning is the fact that we can block flying creatures with Derevi if we really need to.
The CMC of 3 is also perfect for a commander. I'm just obsessed with low casting cost commanders and while I tried out some with CMC 5 or higher, I was never amazed by them. There is just something about CMC 4 or lower commanders that seems to be working better in more competitive metas like mine, so I generally favor them. Now, lets get to the main ability of Derevi.
"1GWU: Put Derevi onto the battlefield from the command zone."
This activated ability is 50% of the reason why Derevi is just perfect for the Cawblade playstyle in EDH. What it essentially reads is:
Flash
Derevi can't be countered.
Commander tax costs don't apply to Derevi.
This ability is crazy good in so many different ways and the main reason why Derevi is frowned upon. Bypassing the commander tax is serious business and in most players minds something like that shouldn't exist at all. But how breakable is it in reality? I think its certainly possible to do some degenerate stuff with this, but for the most part I think its fine and not worse than some other commander's abilities. I get the idea that WotC probabaly had in mind when designing this card. It should represent a commander that is like the wind, you can't see it coming, you can't beat the wind and the wind always comes to blow you in your face. Its actually very flavorful overall and the fact that Derevi is a bird sailing in the wind substantiates it.
In the overall picture of the EDH format she seems to be fine as well and if she really would be as problematic, we probabaly would have seen a ban already. I will agree that stax is an unfun strategy to play against in a multiplayer game where turns take very long already, but as long as Derevi isn't commanding a stax strategy she is fine. Additionally she is just a small flyer and I think this could have been way more problematic if WotC gave her higher power/toughness.
Flash
The first part we are going to look at is the ability to flash Derevi in at all times. This makes the way this deck can sequence and take actions very dynamic. Timing is very important for control decks - instant speed spells and interactions are needed. Derevi seamlessly works in conjuntion with instants, because you never have to play her into a dangerous board, worry about giving her haste and you can immediately replay her if she gets killed or - you just answer something and hold her back. Because that ability has no timing restrictions you can dogde so much stuff other commanders just can't, exactly what makes Flashblade so unique. However, this still doesn't mean you can play unresponsible with Derevi. It still costs mana to get her out and you never can afford to waste mana in control decks. Its a learning process to know when to flash her in and when to leave her back.
A nice addition to flash is that its so hard for your opponents to see your next move coming. Playing control in a multiplayer game can be like a super tight chess game and every advantage you can get is very welcome. While the pod knows that you always have the ability to bring her in, they still don't know the exact moment and that messes with them and sometimes forces mistakes and play arounds which buy you time and tempo.
Derevi can't be countered
Another great thing to have in a control deck is your threats being hard to interact with and it all begins on the stack. While technically people can counter Derevi's activated ability with Stifle-like effects, in reality that doesn't happen very often and even if, it merely postpones the inevitable and takes some tempo away from us.
The ability to dodge conventional counterspells though is gross and keeps a lot of pressure away from us that we would have with other commanders. We never have to worry about other control players threatning to counter the center piece of Flashblade, which frees up resources in return. It also allows us to count on our commander in critical situations and that threatens our opponents and forces them to always calculate with an additional variable.
Commander tax costs don't apply to Derevi.
This is the heartpiece of the ability. Playing as much tempo as Flashblade can, is only made possible because we can play our commander early and often without worries of her being expensive later on. This means we can use Derevi as an attacker that almost feels relentless and like a wasted target for your opponents removal. And that brings us to an important quality of Derevi: She drains away your opponents resources. Removal just can't stop our commander effectively and that leads to a huge decision your opponents have to make - How do I deal with this deck?
Of course there are plenty of ways to hinder or even halt Flashblade, but it requires skills, experience and some clever political interactions by your opponents.
An additional upside of this ability is the fact that our mass removals can be used without much regret and worry, since our commander will still have a stable cost. Especially in a control deck where you need to play sweepers to take away your opponents tempo and resources this is a more than welcome trait of Derevi. But let's look at her other ability.
"Whenever Derevi, Empyrial Tactician enters the battlefield or a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, you may tap or untap target permanent"
Now, this is the other reason as to why Derevi is generally the best commander for this specific playstyle. Being able to tap or untap permanents whenever she enters the battlefield or any creature we control deals combat damage opens us up to do what control decks would like to do: Freeing up lands to play stuff on your turn, while having the mana to react to your opponents.
In Flashblade we mainly use the ability to untap lands, however be aware that there is huge potential for this to synergize whith tons of other things. The interaction with something like an Isochron Scepter imprinted with a Impulse enables you to establish a card selection engine for example. The Scepter is actually the only interaction I choose to play in this deck, because we are not running enough creatures to reliably trigger multiple targets. In other Derevi lists where you would play more creatures to get triggers you could go absolutely go crazy with tap/untap shenanigans.
I want to point out that even untapping a single land each turn can go a very long way over the course of a game and while it might seem cute compared to ramp strategies, it's actually exactly tailored to a control gameplan. The cost/effectiveness ratio is actually better than playing ramp and it also means that you do not clutter your late game draws with ramp spells, which is a huge deal.
Instead of making a "Why play Derevi" section, I figured to make a specific list for this archetype, since there are many archetypes possible with this commander.
You might like Flashblade, if...
You might dislike Flashblade, if...
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Bountiful Promenade
1 Breeding Pool
1 Canopy Vista
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
5 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Misty Rainforest
5 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sea of Clouds
1 Seaside Haven
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Windswept Heath
Creature (6)
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Spell Queller
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thrasios, Triton Hero
1 Hour of Revelation
1 Open the Armory
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
Instant (28)
1 Anticipate
1 Arcane Denial
1 Bant Charm
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dig Through Time
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forsake the Worldly
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Impulse
1 Krosan Grip
1 Mana Drain
1 Mission Briefing
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Nexus of Fate
1 Noxious Revival
1 Opt
1 Path to Exile
1 Reap
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Telling Time
1 Trickbind
1 Unwind
1 Batterskull
1 Blackblade Reforged
1 Conqueror's Flail
1 Dowsing Dagger
1 Hammer of Nazahn
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mask of Memory
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Spellbinder
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Enchantment (7)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Duelist's Heritage
1 Mystic Remora
1 One with Nature
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Sigarda's Aid
1 True Conviction
Well, I do agree that these two seem a fit for this type of strategy, as both literally do something that the deck wants. The problem however is their mana cost.
Krav, the unredeemed is a 5 drop that wants you to pay B to activate him so even one use out of him is 6 mana total. That is just not cost efficient, even with the life gain as an additional upside.
Regna, the redeemer is a 6 drop and you need to gain life and have her to be on the battlefield to get the white tokens. You might not be gaining life every turn in this deck though and if you just want the tokens there are certainly better options around. Elspeth, Sun's Champion would be way better, and even she is too expensive for what she does in my opinion.
Additionally both of them can't be tutored by Recruiter of the Guard and can not be reanimated with Reveillark nor Sun Titan.
I just think there is not enough room for 5+ drops in an aristocrat deck and these two just lack in terms of power and synergy compared to other choices. Even the fact that one tutors the other doesn't make it better. They're a nice gimmick if nothing else.
This archetype wants to chain spells together in the late game, so they should not be to expensive. The main focus of the mana curve should be 2 and 3 drops, so by turn 6 you can play multiples in a turn or have mana free for any sort of activation.
Wow, I never thought of that interaction. But now that I think about it, I think you don't necessarily need a sac outlet to make this work. Say I cast Animate Dead targeting the Leonin Relic-Warder in your yard, it then enters the battlefield and you target Animate Dead with the Warders ETB trigger, trigger resolves and Animate Dead goes to exile triggering to sacrifice Leonin Relic-Warder, which when sacrificed triggers to bring back Animate Dead which then starts the loop again. I think this is how it should work.
You could however when Animate Dead leaves the battlefield and the sacrifice trigger goes on the stack, sacrifice the Leonin Relic-Warder to something like Ashnod's Altar in response to get CC. Then the Relic Warders LTB goes on the stack which brings back Animate Dead and you are left where you started, except that the sacrifice trigger from Animate Dead is still on the stack, which does not do anything since your Leonin Relic-Warder is a new object already. Pretty sure this is how it works
Nonetheless this is a great interaction I wasn't aware of, even though I play all the pieces in my deck and I considered myself an Aristocrats Veteran
I'm running this deck religiously for many years now and it's always a blast to play with it, even after all these years. You can find my specific deck list here. There is an unfinished Primer on that tappedout page, which I definitely want to continue, but just didn't found the time to do so.
It's noteworthy that my list is more of a control-Aristorats deck, which is not optimized for combos, even though it has some in the deck. That stems from the fact, that I am not a fan of inifinte combos and cards that just go in the deck, solely to form a combo. When I stopped playing Teysa as a combo variant, the deck became way more robust, more fun to pilot and way stronger than it's combo variants. It's hard to avoid combos completely in aristocrat decks, simply because cards like Phyrexian Altar or Nim Deathmantle are just very good in the deck, even without going infinite. Anyway, feel free to check my list out if you feel so.
As for the current state of Teysa, Orzhov Scion in commander, I think the deck is in a good place and pretty competitive in 75% metas. Even though this deck did not nearly get as many new toys than some other commanders, it still got a few good ones. I started to build this deck in early 2016 and really began to play commander extensively when Kaldesh came out. I figuered as a Teysa lover I should contribute to this thread and give my opinion on a set by set basis on new cards for the deck since Kaladesh. I wanted to do it for a long time, but just now found the time to do so
Kaladesh
Overall I think Kaladesh was a pretty weak set for this deck, even though the powerlevel of the set itself was ridiculous. We got Concealed Courtyard as another manafixing land and many Teysa players wanted to make Aetherworks Marvel work. It works, I tried it as well, but I generally think it is too overkill and fragile. By the time you make this thing work consistently every turn, you could already do something more impactful. It's still a fine card and really great in an aristocrat deck.
Commander 2016
While being the best Commander Set since it's creation in my opinion, this set brought nothing in terms of new cards for aristocrats, besides Breya, Etherium Shaper, which can be a very, very good aristocrats commander with artifact synergy.
Aether Revolt
This set brought us Yahenni, Undying Partisan, if we need an additional sac outlet on a stick that also can gain indestructable. The better card from this set though is Hidden Stockpile. We can pretty much trigger this every turn without going through a big hassle. Every body counts for aristocrats and this has also an inbuild sac outlet. I'm generally very impressed with this card and have never put it out of the deck so far. It's like a hybrid between Bitterblossom and Viscera Seer, which both are fantastic cards for this deck.
Amonkhet
We got Anointed Procession which was considered a big breaktrough by Teysa players, as far as I know. I will say this much, if it sticks around it will win the game. The problem is that you have to spend 4 mana doing nothing and it can be destroyed before you even get use out of it. It's similar to Aetherworks Marvel in that it is a win more card. I tested it and for my meta it defintely was too slow, so I am not running it. I feel the deck is very fine creating enough bodys without it. In slower metas it's probably ruining other player's life.
Hour of Devastation
While being a homerun for me as a Nicol Bolas fan, nothing new for Teysa here.
Commander 2017
C17 gave us Vindictive Lich. I wouldn't say its a key card nor did it stuff holes that the deck might have, but it certainly is powerful in a strategy that can sac its dudes and recur them to do it all over again. We also got Teferi's Protection as a white good stuff card, but I don't see the need to run it in this deck.
Ixalan
Again, nothing to be gained from this set unfortunately. I tried Dowsing Dagger for some time in my list as a ramp card and it worked very well overall. But it's not really a specific Aristocrat card to be honest.
Rivals of Ixalan
This set brought us Pitiless Plunderer, which is an insane card for this playstyle. It helps to ramp by just doing your thing and it enables critical turns way sooner than normal. If you haven't tried this guy, give him a go. This set also gave us Elenda, the Dusk Rose which I heard good things about, but never actually tested. I think she is to slow at producing tokens and 4 drops should be kept at a minimum if you ask me.
Dominaria
The only card from Dominaria worth mentioning is Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle. While not necessarily a typical Aristocrat card, the trigger is STRONG! So strong in fact that I tried her in my list where I have only 11 cards (including Teysa) that could trigger her, but still was positively surprised of how powerful she is. She is great for the critical turn where you want to win and having a free Unearth for casting your commander is gross.
Battlebond
Nothing of interest here.
M19
Militia Bugler and Open the Graves are cards the see play, but I think both of them are inferior to other choices we have.
Commander 2018
Nope, nothing.
Guilds of Ravnica
Plenty of stuff from Guilds to try out at least. I start with the strongest: Plaguecrafter is an upgraded Fleshbag Marauder and Midnight Reaper a variant on Grim Haruspex. Both see plenty of play and now we can add redundancy to the effect and/or replace them. Some more testing needs to happen, but I'm sure both of them will find a home in my list.
Gruesome Menagerie is another card that is very strong here, I still don't know though, what to cut and if I actually need it in my list. It's like a mini Living Death, but my problem is that I rather play the real thing and go for smaller recur effects in enchantment form like Animate Dead, because Sun Titan can recur them.
A card that hasn't been listed before is Mausoleum Secrets. I think it is at least worth a try. Instant speed tutor is great, there are plenty of high profile black targets in our deck and as soon as we have 3-5 creatures in the yard its online. Most lists have enough creatures to make it work I think, its just not an early game tutor, but could fetch your win cons. I will return once I gathered more experience with it.
Other than that I don't think there is anything noteworthy. Doom Whisperer just isn't the type of card for an aristocrat deck. Its flashy and big and most importantly NEW, but it will not earn a hall of fame spot for this deck. Same with Divine Visitation which is cute and overkill.
And there we have it. Rememeber, this is just my opinion on this deck and your goals for this deck might differ. I still hope this post helped and I will make sure to check by this thread more often now.
SubstaX
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I really like the idea of these, but did they really needed to make the ability to draw two cards cost 4 colored mana? Would it be to broken if that would cost 3 or even 2 mana to activate?
I started to brainstorm her as well and I will put my first list with her together tomorrow. (I am still awaiting some cards for it, which are in the mail.)
I play her in the 99 of a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager grixis artifacts list, which has a planeswalker subtheme and I was nothing but astonished by her powerlevel. She really seems to be the best of the 4 new planeswalker commanders, because of the open ended nature of her abilities. The only thing she wants you to play is a bunch of artifacts, which could very well be mostly mana producing ones and maybe a few utility artifacts. Other than that you are free to experiment around with themes.
For my first draft I want to explore a spellslinger theme, with a thievery subtheme. Cards like Swarm Intelligence, Sunbird's Invocation & Mind's Dilation should all be pretty busted with her affinity for artifacts ability. Also Chaos Wand seems great, as well as Blatant Thievery & Entrancing Melody. I defnitely want a deck that scales a little bit with your opponents and generally plays a slower, control-ish game with counterspells and such.
Definetly hyped to see how it will work out. If you have any suggestions for such a gameplan let me know