I like this. Twice year rotation is great if you intend to collect cards, just wait until the set rotates out and prices drop. But from a gameplay perspective, it feels too much like a rat race. Hurry up and get your cards and decks together before rotation, then dump it all before they rotate out. Not much time to experiment or fiddle with decks.
More importantly, MtG can't take over ones life. I have other interests I would like to tend to every now and then. If I'm away for say.. four months studying or whatever, that's nearly 1/4 of the play time lost on a deck before it rotates. Once a year rotation makes it easier to get back.
I played an Casual form of Two-Headed giant for years out of that exact fear (Is Two Headed Giant even still a thing anymore?) One day I decided to try multiplayer. My first game stretched out for about two hours (long enough for Coraline to start and end) and it wasn't half bad. I got knocked out early and it just felt like a D&D campaign. Watched the game, Coraline, made a quick run to Jack in the Box, chatted. The remaining players got tired and everyone withdrew.
I don't think I felt bored because everyone continued to interact with each other.
S
I, personally, have never seen an MtG player run for anything unless it was to be first in line. Not saying that all MtG players aren't in shape but... just my personal experience.
Sorry my 5Ks aren't scheduled near your LGS. For the next one, I'll ask them to open the front door and back door and route it right through your store during your next PTQ, hopefully it doesn't knock your table over but no promises.
You'll probably judge my activity level based on my physical appearance and how much its necessary for me to move within a game store anyway, but at least you'll have seen a Magic player run for something besides being first in line.
Considering I don't actually own an LGS, feel free to take your 5K through any LGS of your choosing at any time. No need to restrict yourself to PTQ days either. If you let me know the time and place, I'll ask my 5K friends to take part. I'm sure it would be a good way to introduce them to Magic. Ironically, none of them play Magic. Of course, that's just my small circle, obviously not every person who runs.
You might want to take special notice of, now pay attention, to the qualifier in my statement, "my personal experience." Also note that my statement is carefully worded not to include all Magic players as I'm sure you've deduced by now that I don't personally know every MtG player in existence.
If we're done with the saltiness, we can move on to the original post topic.
DemonkingJG.
I think your heart is in the right place, it's just relatively clunky idea to me.
I might be jaded since I'm not up to running around by any measure with a deck of any value. So if we reduce the value of the deck to say... Pauper, the other facet is time. During Casual games, it's not unusual for me to hit an hour during one round. Much longer with much slower control decks or larger player counts. There's no tournament time crunch involved.
I would propose, to make the game run smoother, is to impose some deck construction limits. Pauper is a good place. Setting deck size to forty cards is also good, games are forced to run faster. I can't think of anything else really... I built a heavy Vanilla creature deck restricted to 8 spells to teach someone to play and it runs stupidly fast for a deck with no ramp. Something like that I guess. Use 10 instead of 20 life will run even faster I suppose.
I would allow Henchmen to die. To make the game more balanced. Maybe allow the Overlord be unkillable until all the Henchmen die? Survivor becomes the new Overlord?
You could take a page from Ironman and allow opponents to only take remaining cards in library. Sorting out cards later can prove to be a problem later.
I, personally, have never seen an MtG player run for anything unless it was to be first in line. Not saying that all MtG players aren't in shape but... just my personal experience.
#4 sounds almost impossible to overcome towards the end. With no way to kill H/O, a 4 against 1 or 2 match is... well... unfair. Especially if they're allowed to come in when the other player is near 5 life.
It's not clear to me what role, if any, the Overlord really has. Not exactly rocket science if the goal is to catch everyone..
Is the safe-point like a home base or something?
Outside... you play this outside... with cards.... I think the players might spend more time running after their cards in the breeze instead of chasing each other. Just saying.
Have you done this yourself? What was your experience?
Ugh... not sure what it is, like there's Q&A that's just well... trivial? Like the whole business with Dwarves and Gremlins. I dunno, makes my head hurt.
My daughter has been pestering me to build a better "nice" deck for her for a while. This is probably right up her alley.
I'll be marking this.
What about adding a mana dork... Gold Myr? Not female or an angel I guess, the equivalent mana rock would be Marble Diamond but because this is casual, I would go straight for Sol Ring over any other recent mana rock. The more recent artwork for Ring is not quite as "devilish" as the earlier versions.
Question, does anyone else hate "stacked" cards in binders. By that, I mean multiples of the same card in the same pocket? Because I do.
Can´t stand it, although I have to say i did it too.
I did it for a long time, so that all my rares would fit into one binder.
When this wasn´t possible any longer + I bought a 200 rare collection from a guy on some tabletop gaming board, I totally reordered everything.
Also its much easier to damage cards with your fingernail when they are stacked.
A guy also told me that he never stacks the cards because its so much easier to steal stacked cards.
If they are alone, not stacked, you notice a missing card immediately
Surprised no one mentioned that stacked cards also stretch the pocket out so when/if you do trade any number short of the last away, they leftovers have a tendency to slide out at the worst times.
I'm a little too tired to process the cards but I can't help but notice that Steampunk Medic has Defender, has 2p yet has an ability that completely negates having 2p at all.
I see a lot of garbage or questionable MtG cards up for sale Craigslist and with no protection in place it's buyer beware. I can't see OU being much different. eBay (I will never sell and rarely buy from) LGS (expensive and limited) or any selection of dedicated websites offer a layer of insulation. Offerup, in terms of safety, offers identifying sellers but fake transactions artificially inflating ratings might prove to be a problem. Exactly the reason I hate eBay ever since they started hiding buyer ID's. Well... that and the ridiculous process for dealing with scams.
I'll give it a shot with my other hobbies and see how it works out. If you understand what you're after, I think it looks decent.
My first deck was a RBU that was quickly torn apart and reassembled by a more experienced player into a RB Shivan Dragon/Sengir Vampire deck. I was never given the opportunity to play the game wrong so my first card was likely a Mountain followed by a Bolt. Or a Mountains, Swamp, Dark Ritual and a Fireball I don't think I ever had a 1cmc black spell other than Dark Ritual for that deck.
Amazingly, I still have the essence of that deck, squirreled away in some corner of one my deck boxes.
I think that unbanning collector's/world champion edition is the only realistic solution to increasing movement of reserved list cards to the more casual player.
Yet, in the very same post you wrote (I added the bold)
Quote from Shea_0 »
Saying that there isnt enough of the collector's product to be worth unbanning really just sounds like an argument from someone who is butthurt that the scale of availability isnt to their liking, or that they maybe havent collected as long as some others or that their job doesnt pay enough. So the argument of availability sounds like more of an argument of preference.
There's no reset button of fairness where we each get our pick of the cards. I'd say to unban them and let people try to get what they can!
You continue by saying:
Quote from Shea_0 »
I want to buy more reserve list cards for less and not get chided for the square edges. I want to finish my vintage R/W burn deck.
You then commented
Quote from Shea_0 »
I dunno, maybe so. I'd like to find out :Smile:
in response to a price increase of unbanned gold cards.
The way it is now, gold cards are accessible to the Casual group because they're banned anywhere else. Allowing gold bordered cards into tournament play would take away from the very group that you cited as helping. It would push the golds up to where it's, once again, accessible by the elite group who snagged them before an unban or those who pull down enough for the higher price. Contrary to your implication, this stance has nothing to do with the lack of golds in my collection.
I named the players of the game (myself included) as the group that adding more tourney legal reserve list cards would benefit and I believe this. Giving players more tourney legal cards is a win, that means more people can participate in events with them. I say that this is more important than what the cards are currently being used as, which is nothing more than as proxies, something that could be replaced by a piece of paper in a sleeve.
If people want to play with proxies in casual they can doodle on some paper and put it in a sleeve. It's their choice to spend the $ on an actual gold border to represent the proxied card.
Worrying about gold borders being priced out of the range of being a feasible proxie is ridiculous.
Gold borders are unique in this circumstance because they're literal extra copies of the original cards, just some different ink or corners and a special rule. Where else is there a reserve like this of cards that can't be reprinted? Nowhere. It doesn't hurt the casual players you cited when they could just make their own proxies. I don't think there has to be an obligation to keep gold borders affordable when it's a greater benefit to the players to have extra reserve list tourney legal cards. If you want proxies it's your choice do decide how much you'll spend on them.
I'm gonna keep saying it that every time you bring up prices of gold borders going up you're just being butthurt.
In the same way I'll remind you you're butthurt because you missed out on snagging your ABU cards?
Sorry dude. I sympathize with your personal plight, I just don't agree with your solution.
I think that unbanning collector's/world champion edition is the only realistic solution to increasing movement of reserved list cards to the more casual player.
Yet, in the very same post you wrote (I added the bold)
Quote from Shea_0 »
Saying that there isnt enough of the collector's product to be worth unbanning really just sounds like an argument from someone who is butthurt that the scale of availability isnt to their liking, or that they maybe havent collected as long as some others or that their job doesnt pay enough. So the argument of availability sounds like more of an argument of preference.
There's no reset button of fairness where we each get our pick of the cards. I'd say to unban them and let people try to get what they can!
You continue by saying:
Quote from Shea_0 »
I want to buy more reserve list cards for less and not get chided for the square edges. I want to finish my vintage R/W burn deck.
You then commented
Quote from Shea_0 »
I dunno, maybe so. I'd like to find out :Smile:
in response to a price increase of unbanned gold cards.
The way it is now, gold cards are accessible to the Casual group because they're banned anywhere else. Allowing gold bordered cards into tournament play would take away from the very group that you cited as helping. It would push the golds up to where it's, once again, accessible by the elite group who snagged them before an unban or those who pull down enough for the higher price. Contrary to your implication, this stance has nothing to do with the lack of golds in my collection.
You called people "butthurts" since, "their job doesnt pay enough" (your words) to afford $3k-$5k cards, yet you go on to say that you want to finish your vintage R/W burn deck. Again, your words.
Quote from Shea_0 »
I'm pointing out that all this speculating about a person out there who could potentially make a buck off of me, or you if the cards were unbanned and somehow this is an argument against unbanning is really just people being butthurt about the options. People wish they could have been, or should have done or whatever... well too bad, we don't all get a copy of anything. A lot more of us could though if there was movement of cards.
Sounds to me like you're the one who's "butthurt" over the current situation. Maybe you're on the cusp of obtaining Power Nine but they're just out of reach, tantalizingly close? Watching your buddies play across the table with their P9's. Maybe you see golds as your ticket to get into Club 33?
Or perhaps, you have the P9 already but don't like the idea of bringing thousands of dollars of cards to a tournament so you see the golds as a way to set aside your ABU cards and have less risk on the table.
Or maybe my original assumption was correct, you just want to make some easy money.
Whatever your story is, it doesn't matter. We know where your stance is and we know where WotC's stance is. Sadly, the status quo will remain.
More importantly, MtG can't take over ones life. I have other interests I would like to tend to every now and then. If I'm away for say.. four months studying or whatever, that's nearly 1/4 of the play time lost on a deck before it rotates. Once a year rotation makes it easier to get back.
I don't think I felt bored because everyone continued to interact with each other.
Considering I don't actually own an LGS, feel free to take your 5K through any LGS of your choosing at any time. No need to restrict yourself to PTQ days either. If you let me know the time and place, I'll ask my 5K friends to take part. I'm sure it would be a good way to introduce them to Magic. Ironically, none of them play Magic. Of course, that's just my small circle, obviously not every person who runs.
You might want to take special notice of, now pay attention, to the qualifier in my statement, "my personal experience." Also note that my statement is carefully worded not to include all Magic players as I'm sure you've deduced by now that I don't personally know every MtG player in existence.
If we're done with the saltiness, we can move on to the original post topic.
DemonkingJG.
I think your heart is in the right place, it's just relatively clunky idea to me.
I might be jaded since I'm not up to running around by any measure with a deck of any value. So if we reduce the value of the deck to say... Pauper, the other facet is time. During Casual games, it's not unusual for me to hit an hour during one round. Much longer with much slower control decks or larger player counts. There's no tournament time crunch involved.
I would propose, to make the game run smoother, is to impose some deck construction limits. Pauper is a good place. Setting deck size to forty cards is also good, games are forced to run faster. I can't think of anything else really... I built a heavy Vanilla creature deck restricted to 8 spells to teach someone to play and it runs stupidly fast for a deck with no ramp. Something like that I guess. Use 10 instead of 20 life will run even faster I suppose.
I would allow Henchmen to die. To make the game more balanced. Maybe allow the Overlord be unkillable until all the Henchmen die? Survivor becomes the new Overlord?
You could take a page from Ironman and allow opponents to only take remaining cards in library. Sorting out cards later can prove to be a problem later.
That's all the ideas I really have for now.
I think it needs work.
I, personally, have never seen an MtG player run for anything unless it was to be first in line. Not saying that all MtG players aren't in shape but... just my personal experience.
#4 sounds almost impossible to overcome towards the end. With no way to kill H/O, a 4 against 1 or 2 match is... well... unfair. Especially if they're allowed to come in when the other player is near 5 life.
It's not clear to me what role, if any, the Overlord really has. Not exactly rocket science if the goal is to catch everyone..
Is the safe-point like a home base or something?
Outside... you play this outside... with cards.... I think the players might spend more time running after their cards in the breeze instead of chasing each other. Just saying.
Have you done this yourself? What was your experience?
Ugh... not sure what it is, like there's Q&A that's just well... trivial? Like the whole business with Dwarves and Gremlins. I dunno, makes my head hurt.
I'll be marking this.
What about adding a mana dork... Gold Myr? Not female or an angel I guess, the equivalent mana rock would be Marble Diamond but because this is casual, I would go straight for Sol Ring over any other recent mana rock. The more recent artwork for Ring is not quite as "devilish" as the earlier versions.
Surprised no one mentioned that stacked cards also stretch the pocket out so when/if you do trade any number short of the last away, they leftovers have a tendency to slide out at the worst times.
I'm not sure where it sits with MtG cards.
I see a lot of garbage or questionable MtG cards up for sale Craigslist and with no protection in place it's buyer beware. I can't see OU being much different. eBay (I will never sell and rarely buy from) LGS (expensive and limited) or any selection of dedicated websites offer a layer of insulation. Offerup, in terms of safety, offers identifying sellers but fake transactions artificially inflating ratings might prove to be a problem. Exactly the reason I hate eBay ever since they started hiding buyer ID's. Well... that and the ridiculous process for dealing with scams.
I'll give it a shot with my other hobbies and see how it works out. If you understand what you're after, I think it looks decent.
Oh.... that makes a lot more sense. That would explain the price point too now that i think about it.
Amazingly, I still have the essence of that deck, squirreled away in some corner of one my deck boxes.
In the same way I'll remind you you're butthurt because you missed out on snagging your ABU cards?
Sorry dude. I sympathize with your personal plight, I just don't agree with your solution.
Leather? Really? You don't have to rub, like Mink's oil (no apologies whatsoever to PETA) or something into it?
TAP has this on their website.
http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_displays/sports_card_display_case_extra_long/496
I have no idea as to the dimensions of a vintage pack but it seems big enough.
Edit: Nevermind, it's only 1/8" thick space inside.
You yourself say:
Yet, in the very same post you wrote (I added the bold)
You continue by saying:
You then commented
in response to a price increase of unbanned gold cards.
The way it is now, gold cards are accessible to the Casual group because they're banned anywhere else. Allowing gold bordered cards into tournament play would take away from the very group that you cited as helping. It would push the golds up to where it's, once again, accessible by the elite group who snagged them before an unban or those who pull down enough for the higher price. Contrary to your implication, this stance has nothing to do with the lack of golds in my collection.
You called people "butthurts" since, "their job doesnt pay enough" (your words) to afford $3k-$5k cards, yet you go on to say that you want to finish your vintage R/W burn deck. Again, your words.
Sounds to me like you're the one who's "butthurt" over the current situation. Maybe you're on the cusp of obtaining Power Nine but they're just out of reach, tantalizingly close? Watching your buddies play across the table with their P9's. Maybe you see golds as your ticket to get into Club 33?
Or perhaps, you have the P9 already but don't like the idea of bringing thousands of dollars of cards to a tournament so you see the golds as a way to set aside your ABU cards and have less risk on the table.
Or maybe my original assumption was correct, you just want to make some easy money.
Whatever your story is, it doesn't matter. We know where your stance is and we know where WotC's stance is. Sadly, the status quo will remain.