Magic Market Index for April 12, 2019
 
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  • posted a message on Mirror Image and ETB effects.
    Oooohhhh...... Teach

    I always thought there was two ETB's going off and couldn't figure out why.

    Alright then. That makes my life a little bit easier.

    Many thanks for having patience wth me.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Mirror Image and ETB effects.
    Quote from void_nothing »
    Mirror Image and most Clones have replacement effects that make them copies, not triggered abilities. You make the choice of what to copy technically BEFORE the creature is on the battlefield; the replacement effect never doesn't apply while it's on the battlefield.


    So... wouldn't replacement effect replace the copied creature's own ETB?

    I'm sorry. I know that it works like this. Which is why you can't play Vesuva to copy Dark Depths to avoid the counters. I'm just having trouble understanding why there's a second ETB that happens. It's like being 5 years old and knowing they 2+2=4 and having to accept that the correct answer. Yeah, I spent a lot of recesses in detention. Smile

    So Mirror Image is a replacement effect and Benthid is... triggered?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Mirror Image and ETB effects.
    When Mirror Image copies a creature as it enters the battlefield, why does the ETB of the copied creature (random creature Mesmerizing Benthid for example) also trigger? Wouldn't it be too late for the other ETB to trigger since Mirror Image's ETB already happened?

    Just trying to get my head on the timing here.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Ugin and his spirit reveal as if they were never leaked
    Quote from fettpett »
    One can argue that 5 walkers “die”...but, I was expecting at least a 1/3 of the oldest walkers to get their sparks ripped out of them. It would have been more poignant and made sacrifices more meaningful.


    It wouldn't have really mattered. As you so subtly noted, WotC doesn't know the meaning of death. One of the reasons I care so little about the Magic story is because dead should really mean all dead, not mostly dead. It was cute with Miracle Max the Wizard, but it's a bore with Magic.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon --> Interactions with Dark Depths
    Quote from Red_wyrm »
    From my understand of Blood moon, ETB effects of lands still happen. For example a Rakdos Guildgate will still enter the battlefield tapped because the effect of blood moon applies once it is on the battlefield, not how it enters the battlefield. This being said, I would think Dark Depths enters with the ice counters, and they can be removed via vampire hexmage but not from the ability of dark depths. And if it loses its counters while blood moonis in play, it will still be a mountain until it leaves play.


    That is no longer true. There has been a rule change regarding the interaction of cards like Blood Moon and Blood Sun with cards like Dark Depths. If a land card were to enter play with counters or tapped while a Blood card is out, then Blood would apply before the ETB ability. In short, Dark Depth will enter play as an untapped Mountain with no other abilities or counters.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Gold Cards at 3 Color
    Feel free to try and convince me Wink

    I'm not sure if citing lands is a good choice in this context. Two or more color lands have never been consistent in terms of their frames. Even basic lands have been changed time and time again. While I greatly favor the straight up mana symbol over the older text format, I actually prefer the older land frames over the new land frames.

    Oh... I also like the white border cards. But it has nothing to at all to do with aesthetics or even function. Laugh
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Bioessence Hydra
    People have to remember that when a PW ETBs for you, you get the PW's starting loyalty in +1/+1 counters for the Hydra. That's kinda stupid with some of the high loyalty uncommon PWs.


    Yikes.... this is going to be one ugly beast.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Maro on Brawl on Arena
    Quote from Xeruh »
    I don't read it as "salty", kind of bizarre take to put on it. It still costs time and energy to program Arena to make Brawl work, time and energy they probably want to devote to other projects. It's not as simple as saying "we should do this" and then it happens.


    I don't think anyone is really suggesting otherwise. I also agree it's the bean counters looking at paper and saying, "denied," for Arena. Every change made for Arena has been to try and pull money out of our wallets. So if the proponents can't prove Brawl is making money, then Arena isn't going to see it.

    I suspect that Arena has already reached, or very nearly so, a threshold where such an addition wouldn't incur a substantial cost in money or development time. Arena has already proven itself to have singleton rule enforcement. Surgical restrictions and/or bans on specific formats and events. Bans and restrictions on the fly. Commander zone behavior coded in. That's just a few things off the top of my head. For all we know, they may be so far along that it might be a simple tweak as to simply change
    EnableBrawl = FALSE
    to
    EnableBrawl = TRUE
    .

    I don't like paper Brawl and have no intention of ever playing it on paper, but even I can't deny the benefits the format could have on Arena.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Gold Cards at 3 Color
    LOL I understand. Wink

    We all have our desires to see the game do this or that.

    I'm of the very strong opinion that aesthetics should never ignore function (and a bunch of other things). This comes from the near deadly (I would use another word, but then I might get a notice) experiences of trying to build a UI when your art designer thinks that moving 25px x 25px buttons are a good idea. Mad

    To be fair. WotC has moved to a preference for using a color indicator, instead of the frame, when cards care about color and there is no cost. They try anyways. JThat's why Glittering Wish doesn't ask for a Gold card. Technically, there is no such thing. You can't get Gold mana. Pink, sort of. Not Gold.

    But I digress. Sometimes function has to precede form. I can easily and quickly flick through my deck for specific details such as gold or bi-color if that's what I want. Start mixing them up and that's another annoyance to deal with. As interesting as Dryad Arbor, any of the Future Sight, or the Amonkhet Masterpieces* are, they've introduced an additional layer to most games.


    * To be clear. I don't have anything specific against any of the cards I pointed out. In a vacuum, cards like Future Sight ones look great... if the entire deck has the same frame. My problem was always in the larger context of the game where there is a completely different front, these cards flat out look awful and they interfere with gameplay in some cases. If WotC had printed the colors in reverse gold<->bi-color and the OP was hypothetically suggesting the opposite, my stance would be the same.

    By the same token, I'm actually not a fan of the Legendary frames because WotC has failed to remain consistent with its use.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Gold Cards at 3 Color
    Well... there's this article: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/hybrid-flavor-2008-04-30

    I could've sworn Maro talks about it too, and without all the uh... nonsense, but I can't find it.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Gold Cards at 3 Color
    Quote from some_guy123 »
    Quote from SavannahLion »
    Eerrr... the borders should remain consistent. Gold borders have a very distinct meaning different from the hybrid border in Magic and I do not care for changing the colors purely for "aesthetics" as you suggest. In other words, the borders have always had meaning and removing that meaning, however well intentioned, will just create another color fiasco.


    Is there a functional difference between a card that is RW and a card that is R/W R/W ?


    The frame has been about what the card is, not necessarily what the card does. There is a difference. Albeit one that is very rarely, if ever, specifically leveraged with modern printings.

    To wit, a card that is red mana white mana requires red mana white mana to cast. Gold.

    A card that is R/W mana R/W mana can be paid in any combination of red mana red mana or red mana white mana or white mana white mana . Not gold. It's a heck of a lot easier to cast a card with those kind of options.

    As for what the card does, there is a WotC article that explains the differences. I'll see if I can find it.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Good Alternatives
    Quote from Piplupxz »
    Is there a black card that is a good alternative to soulmender?


    This is a pretty old thread. So it's probably best to create a new one. People will read this and get confused, like I did, about the relevancy of some of these cards.

    To answer your question. There are no direct drop in replacements. Black isn't really about life gain, it's more about self sacrifice (in a bad way, like killing your own dog to get what you want kind of thing) than life gain. That said, there are a few non-artifact ways to gain life that are pretty close.


    Edit: Aaagh... forgot Scryfall search string URLs don't work. Can I try a TinyURL? I promise, it goes to Scryfall.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Gold Cards at 3 Color
    Eerrr... the frame should remain consistent. Gold frames have a very distinct meaning different from the hybrid frames in Magic and I do not care for changing the colors purely for "aesthetics" as you suggest. In other words, the frames have always had meaning and removing that meaning, however well intentioned, will just create another color fiasco.

    Edit: to use the correct nomenclature
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Proliferate and Sagas
    Quote from bwachter70 »
    It doesn't remove counters. It adds them, therefore you couldn't go from 2 to 3 in the same turn. You can go to 1 from 2 or 3 to 2 at end of turn, then reuse 1 or 2.


    I think you have a typo there? You won't be able to go from 3 to 2 at the end of the turn. The Saga is sacrificed once the third ability leaves the stack as a state based action immediately after the draw step.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
  • posted a message on Lie about proxy?
    Quote from SavannahLion »
    I have no problem with proxies personally. I get the ‘detriment to Wizards’ thing, but that puts these cards out of my grasp too - I just don’t proxy because I don’t see the need (see below). The requirement to own these cards is still incredibly restrictive, and it would definitely stop me from even attempting this, as my available funds for my hobby are very much limited. That being said, I’m not your meta.

    I’m gonna say you shouldn’t lie to them. It won’t end well. That being said if they require you own these cards, that speaks to me of well established players who have access to these sort of high power staples. If that’s the case you might be more comfortable finding a lower powered meta that you can compete with without the deception. That’s definitely the crux here - for these sort of cards I can understand not having that sort of money, but lying to make it work is not ok, and at some point it’ll bite you in the ass - when they find out, IF they still want to play with you, they’ll never trust you again, not really.

    I’m also going to reiterate that these cards are strong, yes, but they’re far from essential to making a strong deck capable of holding its own and winning games. Cradle now has a functional reprint in Growing rotes of Itlimoc, and we’re in a really good era of commander, where there is a wealth of strategy, a wealth of powerful cards being printed, and plenty of ways to make them work for you. It’s a fallacy that these older, expensive cards are necessary to win games. They can, of course, but you can do just fine without them, and you don’t need to spend a lot of money to make a strong deck. Feel free to post your lists on the site here, and the community would be more than happy to help you come up with ways to win games on a shoestring.


    While I don't agree with your statement 100%, specifically about alternatives, I really can't find any other way to say it best and applaud the effort you put into writing such a concise post. Kudos.

    Thanks! And believe me, if I’m spending any money on a hobby it’s not going to be on fakes. I’m just well aware this is a casual format, so I’m not going to be too hard on someone who wants to play these cards. I can understand why someone would do this, as price and availability make them incredibly restrictive to acquire.

    I fully stand by the second part of my statement though. I think recent printings have done an admirable job of leveling the playing field in terms of the idea of having to spend money to win games. There are still games where this happens, but it’s definitely not a necessity for success in this format. There’s no way I’d play EDH if it required substantial monetary input to win or have fun.


    Don't get me wrong. You have a perfectly valid point about alternatives.

    My disagreement, in part, is that there isn't always a reasonable alternative. I was absolutely delighted to find out Porphyry Nodes is a near functional reprint of Drop of Honey. Not a huge fan of the Ixalan alternative but it works for what it does. Some are trashy (Tabernacle). Others, AFAIK, like Chains still hasn't seen an equivalent. (Has it? 20,000+ cards, it's easy to miss.) All in all, Wizards has a mixed bag of success when it comes to alternatives.

    To a lesser degree, such an argument is relevant only to EDH. A point I grudgingly concede to but wouldn't willingly do so for vintage/Legacy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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