They have different purposes. FoN answers turn 0 relevant spells such as Dredge enablers and Maps from Tron. 0 mana > 1 mana. And it's always hard counter.
I can confirm that GDS is even to slightly favoured against Tron and UW. Don't know what people are talking about. If GDS is ill-positioned (I don't think so, honestly) it may be because Vial decks and Dredge, certainly not due to Tron.
I hate Scour, but it's definitely a necessary evil while playing Delve or Threshold cards.
By the way, I'm also inclined to test Pteramander in the Tarmogoyf slot. The flying clause is huge, and instead of conflicting with Mandrills it needs the same work we already do to grow Nimble. Maybe it's too cute, but I'll definitely try it.
Even without going that far, if you play Monkeys you may prefer something like 3 Stubs and 2 Force of Negation (and cut, like, one Snag, just saying). Having at least six turn zero answers to Map, Looting, Chalice and such is worth discussing.
Given the new jewel we've got with the new Expansion (Force of Negation) I am experimenting a bit to see which kind of deck it will fit the best. I'm focusing on Delver strategies, specifically. But, being a lover of monoblue, I thought about the old Standard-Extended times.
The ones who played it should remember the lovely MUC who was a thing for some time between Ravnica and Mirrodin cycles. Spell Snare, Engineered Explosives, Trinket Mage, fetchlands to provide Explosives a wide range of action. The problem with such strategy is tapping out during your own turn. Force of Negation helps fighting this issue.
--
So... why mono blue?
It isn't exactly monoblue, due to duals used in conjunction with Explosives and Dismember in the sideboard. Still, I want to keep it monocolored because it rotates around colorless lands: Field of Ruin and Blast Zone. The first IS a colorless land... until we can ativate it. The second is a land which transforms herself into a removal (for either creatures or other permanents) and it's much, much more flexible compared to your usual Wrath of God package in UWx. It deals with planeswalkers in the Blue mirror, it fights things such as Lantern and similiar stuff.
The other reason is, as stated in the opening, Force of Negation. If we plan to run several artifacts maindeck, we can't really afford any splash if we want to make the card work.
Basically, Trinket Mage helps us in finding the right answer to the opponent's strategy. Relic of Progenitus is really good in the current metagame, with Dredge, Phoenix and recursions everywhere. Enginereed Explosives complements well with Blast Zone in dealing with creatures, and Walking Ballista has the double role of killing small creatures AND of being a decent finisher in the mid-late game. Chalice of the Void helps against Burn, Pact decks (Ad Nauseam, Titanshift, Amulet) and Living End. It fights Ancestral Vision, other than potentially locking the opponent (classic Affinity on two, Boogles on one, Cheerios on either zero and two...).
Vendilion Clique is preferred to Snapcaster Mage, here, because: a) we've got few cheap spells to flashback, b) we often want to interact with the opponent's hand before tapping out for Trinket, and Clique acts as a good Peek surrogate, c) it closes the game fast in the air, while we stall the board between Explosives, Blast Zone, Ballista, Jace bounce and Trinket chumps.
Obviously, it's still a draft. I playtested with this exact 75 for a pair of days, and I noticed it performs considerably well against the field, but has issues versus Burn. It probably needs more sideboard space.
If you want a cc4 hoser, I highly suggest trying Pia and Kiran Nalaar. It’s impactful even when the opponent answers it immediately, and it deals with Etched Champion and Nexuses. Double red is a constraint, but so it is anything which doesn’t read ‘double black’ in this deck.
I’m fairly interested in this. I was watching some LSV’s content, with his Mono Blu Control developments. I don’t think you can go full Control without any splash, but the plan Thing + Snapcaster + Cryptic Command is always a good beating against a huge part of the metagame.
At first I focused on Blast Zone + Jace TMS maindeck. Too durdly, and Jace was dying way too fast. Search for Azcanta was a great swap for the card advantage slots... but, again, I was durdling too much and didn’t accomplish neither to kill nor to enstablish a decent Control over the opponent.
His ability to race is truly frightening. In the early game is a decent wall, but past turn 5-6 it becomes a three turns clock in the air. Basically, he’s a Crackling Drake who doesn’t replace himself, but comes into play one turn faster. Which means, we can protect him quite profictably.
The deck is basically a UR Phoenix that plays with a different approach: being slower, but more consistent. It resolves around Thing in the Ice, but had much more legs against big-mana decks and other Combo strategies, thanks to counterspells wall + Snapcaster recursion. It’s very good against Dredge, cuz bounce spells (and expecially Echoing Truth) plus Cryptic tap/draw really make the difference here. Affinity is unexpectedly fine, given the amount of cards which bypass their Welding Jar (Snare + Rejection + bounce spells + Dismember). We’re basically a dog against Vial strategies and we’ve got a fairly bad matchup against BGx (this can be improved, though).
With a package composed by 3 Baubles, 4 Scours and 2 Lootings (other than more cc1 spells compared to most lists) you'll rarely have issues in casting them. Drawing three Delve creatures in a row may happens, it's just bad luck, but you can either discard them with Looting or keep your threat for a second moment (if it's a grindy match-up, you want every creature you can have access to). Other than that, the two Tasigurs were actually insane. I tested for a while, and I noticed how I wouldn't have been able to deploy one Delve creature on the field fast enough in several situations if it wasn't for them. The split between Banana King and Zombie Fish feels pretty balanced, as you *absolutely need* to be able to cast a threat on turn two (either Shadow or another Fatty) without knowing what is the opponent playing.
@Terminate&Baubles
I go back and forth between Dismember and Terminate, depending on the metagame. I often played one and one. But I noticed how Tarmogoyf and Titans are having a resurgence (BGx, Jund Shadow, Amulet Titan, Scapeshift). Playing Baubles ourselves, opponent's Goyfs are usually bigger than 4/5, and I do want to keep them in check. Terminate also deals with other stuff such as a big Champion of the Parish or Wurmcoil Engine (and yes, it really matters being able to destroy it, Bolt/Push the deathtouch token in game one).
I did start with a configuration of 4 Baubles, 4 Scours, 2 Lootings, with only four Delve threats. I would love to play the fourth Bauble, but every single card in the deck has a given purpose. I definitely won't cut the eighth removal spell from my maindeck. Bolt also helps growing Shadows, by the way, and it can be recycled as a removal on planeswalker, while Lootings help us discarding Pushes against creatureless strategies (other than Tron and Ad Nauseam, not many).
@Snapcaster in the sideboard
As I already said, this deck operates on few lands. I want a two cc spell that can be operative in grindy match-ups. At fist I thought about having 2-3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, which is indeed a two drop and helps against Humans + Spirits. Yet, we are back to the usual problem: it suffers from GH. I want an effective B-plan when my opponents are on black Leylines for game two/three. Other than that, Peezy is a house vs BGx, and the opening turn one discard, turn two Pyromancer has been crazy good for postboard games. We want to stick a threat, most and foremost, even in grindy match-ups. If we only had to take care of Humans, I would choose Jace for sure.
Other than that, I'm evaluating the single Island in the maindeck. With only 8 maindeck blue spells, it may be a second Swamp (cause we definitely need at least two basics, and Mountain is a useless one).
The more we go in a Tempo direction, the less Snapcaster Mage appeals to me. For a certain period I was even playing the fifth (Jace, Vryn's Prodigy) maindeck. That was the time we durdled, with multiple Kommands in the maindeck. That time is over. I often found myself with dead Snappies in hand, casting them on turn two just for the purpose of having another body on the field. They are a great engine, don't get me wrong. But we are a deck which lives on one cc spells. Snapcaster, to have at least a marginal utility, needs to be cast as a three cc spell. An enormity.
2) This is a Jund list without green.
Yes, it is. I'm actually playing Traverse Shadow without green. Fact is, Traverse is such a bad magic card. I played my fair share of Jund Shadow, Sultai Shadow and 4C Shadow. Half the time I would have preferred a cantrip instead of it. Some other times is rendered useless by opponent's grave hate. Some other times drawing into threats instead of... anything else is actually a liability. Other than that, while Tarmogoyf is a very resilient creature, the ability of casting delve treaths for just one mana has made a HUGE difference, in my testing process. Simply put:
a) Scour > Traverse
b) Grixis Mana > 4C Mana (and Stubborn Denial > playing without Stubborn Denial)
c) Tarmogoyf == Gurmag Angler + Tasigur
I DO want, from the Traverse approach, the high number of cc1 plays (7 discard spells + 4 Stubb, other than all the cantrips!) plus the ability to deploy an early threat (so, one more Delve creature to find, and the set 4 Scours + 2 Looting in order to cast them with consistency).
3) What about the sideboard?
This deck can't play the value game in the traditional fashion. You basically operate on 2-4 lands for the whole match (and Looting is actually crazy good at discarding excess mana), so I'm avoid the "planeswalker trap". Young Peezy is important, though, against most grindy match-ups such as Control and BGx (other than acting as an additional threat versus certain typologies of combo decks). You can deploy it on the field on turn two, most of the time, cause it will exacerbate the opponent's removal before they can eat your "real" threats. I do like Spellbomb more than Surgical at the moment, and I would play Leyline as alternative in this list.
I close unbeaten. Very satisfatory result. Humans is probably the worst preboard matchup you can face, when playing with four Stubbs. Four Stubbs were an all-star the whole day, though, against the other archetypes. My sideboard is well tuned for Tron, which I consider a slightly positive match-up, and in testing I absolutely wrecked Phoenix and any kind of Combo deck. GB Rock is nowhere near to Jund's grindy level (though I would much likely play Rock in this meta, and that's good for us) and we can actually overrun them pretty easily unless they have nutdraws, thanks to the low-lands count. I fear more HS Affinity (again, the side is decently tuned for it) and Humans + hard Control.
I do think this should be the future for the archetype, at least in the incoming months.
By the way, I'm also inclined to test Pteramander in the Tarmogoyf slot. The flying clause is huge, and instead of conflicting with Mandrills it needs the same work we already do to grow Nimble. Maybe it's too cute, but I'll definitely try it.
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Island
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique
Spells (30)
4x Opt
4x Serum Visions
4x Thought Scour
3x Vapor Snag
4x Simic Charm
4x Remand
4x Force of Negation
3x Spell Snare
You can't really skip on Thought Scour while wanting to be on Threshold as soon as possible.
I don't know if jamming some Stubs would be better. Maybe it is, but who knows.
Again.
Given the new jewel we've got with the new Expansion (Force of Negation) I am experimenting a bit to see which kind of deck it will fit the best. I'm focusing on Delver strategies, specifically. But, being a lover of monoblue, I thought about the old Standard-Extended times.
The ones who played it should remember the lovely MUC who was a thing for some time between Ravnica and Mirrodin cycles. Spell Snare, Engineered Explosives, Trinket Mage, fetchlands to provide Explosives a wide range of action. The problem with such strategy is tapping out during your own turn. Force of Negation helps fighting this issue.
--
So... why mono blue?
It isn't exactly monoblue, due to duals used in conjunction with Explosives and Dismember in the sideboard. Still, I want to keep it monocolored because it rotates around colorless lands: Field of Ruin and Blast Zone. The first IS a colorless land... until we can ativate it. The second is a land which transforms herself into a removal (for either creatures or other permanents) and it's much, much more flexible compared to your usual Wrath of God package in UWx. It deals with planeswalkers in the Blue mirror, it fights things such as Lantern and similiar stuff.
The other reason is, as stated in the opening, Force of Negation. If we plan to run several artifacts maindeck, we can't really afford any splash if we want to make the card work.
Let's start with a list
3x Blast Zone
4x Field of Ruin
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Prairie Stream
9x Snow-Covered Island
3x Trinket Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts (5)
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Chalice of the Void
4x Spell Snare
4x Force of Negation
4x Remand
4x Cryptic Command
Cantrips (4)
4x Anticipate
3x Dismember
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Negate
2x Entrancing Melody
1x Threads of Disloyalty
Basically, Trinket Mage helps us in finding the right answer to the opponent's strategy. Relic of Progenitus is really good in the current metagame, with Dredge, Phoenix and recursions everywhere. Enginereed Explosives complements well with Blast Zone in dealing with creatures, and Walking Ballista has the double role of killing small creatures AND of being a decent finisher in the mid-late game. Chalice of the Void helps against Burn, Pact decks (Ad Nauseam, Titanshift, Amulet) and Living End. It fights Ancestral Vision, other than potentially locking the opponent (classic Affinity on two, Boogles on one, Cheerios on either zero and two...).
Vendilion Clique is preferred to Snapcaster Mage, here, because: a) we've got few cheap spells to flashback, b) we often want to interact with the opponent's hand before tapping out for Trinket, and Clique acts as a good Peek surrogate, c) it closes the game fast in the air, while we stall the board between Explosives, Blast Zone, Ballista, Jace bounce and Trinket chumps.
Obviously, it's still a draft. I playtested with this exact 75 for a pair of days, and I noticed it performs considerably well against the field, but has issues versus Burn. It probably needs more sideboard space.
Love this maindeck.
Sideboard feels very wrong, though. Commandeer in a 8-pitchcards maindeck is a NO. It needs some kind of hosers against grindy decks (Talrand's Invocation, which feels like a Pia and Kiran Nalaar substitute and it still flips Delver of Secrets?)
4x Field of Ruin
16x Island
Creatures (12):
4x Thing in the Ice
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tempest Djinn
Cantrips (11):
4x Serum Visions
4x Opt
3x Sleight of Hands
4x Spell Snare
4x Remand
1x Logic Knot
Others (8):
4x Cryptic Command
2x Vapor Snag
2x Echoing Truth
4x Relic of Progenitus
3x Dismember
3x Dispel
3x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Negate
1x Unsummon
At first I focused on Blast Zone + Jace TMS maindeck. Too durdly, and Jace was dying way too fast. Search for Azcanta was a great swap for the card advantage slots... but, again, I was durdling too much and didn’t accomplish neither to kill nor to enstablish a decent Control over the opponent.
Then, Tempest Djinn happened.
His ability to race is truly frightening. In the early game is a decent wall, but past turn 5-6 it becomes a three turns clock in the air. Basically, he’s a Crackling Drake who doesn’t replace himself, but comes into play one turn faster. Which means, we can protect him quite profictably.
The deck is basically a UR Phoenix that plays with a different approach: being slower, but more consistent. It resolves around Thing in the Ice, but had much more legs against big-mana decks and other Combo strategies, thanks to counterspells wall + Snapcaster recursion. It’s very good against Dredge, cuz bounce spells (and expecially Echoing Truth) plus Cryptic tap/draw really make the difference here. Affinity is unexpectedly fine, given the amount of cards which bypass their Welding Jar (Snare + Rejection + bounce spells + Dismember). We’re basically a dog against Vial strategies and we’ve got a fairly bad matchup against BGx (this can be improved, though).
I’ll keep testing, very interested in it.
With a package composed by 3 Baubles, 4 Scours and 2 Lootings (other than more cc1 spells compared to most lists) you'll rarely have issues in casting them. Drawing three Delve creatures in a row may happens, it's just bad luck, but you can either discard them with Looting or keep your threat for a second moment (if it's a grindy match-up, you want every creature you can have access to). Other than that, the two Tasigurs were actually insane. I tested for a while, and I noticed how I wouldn't have been able to deploy one Delve creature on the field fast enough in several situations if it wasn't for them. The split between Banana King and Zombie Fish feels pretty balanced, as you *absolutely need* to be able to cast a threat on turn two (either Shadow or another Fatty) without knowing what is the opponent playing.
@Terminate&Baubles
I go back and forth between Dismember and Terminate, depending on the metagame. I often played one and one. But I noticed how Tarmogoyf and Titans are having a resurgence (BGx, Jund Shadow, Amulet Titan, Scapeshift). Playing Baubles ourselves, opponent's Goyfs are usually bigger than 4/5, and I do want to keep them in check. Terminate also deals with other stuff such as a big Champion of the Parish or Wurmcoil Engine (and yes, it really matters being able to destroy it, Bolt/Push the deathtouch token in game one).
I did start with a configuration of 4 Baubles, 4 Scours, 2 Lootings, with only four Delve threats. I would love to play the fourth Bauble, but every single card in the deck has a given purpose. I definitely won't cut the eighth removal spell from my maindeck. Bolt also helps growing Shadows, by the way, and it can be recycled as a removal on planeswalker, while Lootings help us discarding Pushes against creatureless strategies (other than Tron and Ad Nauseam, not many).
@Snapcaster in the sideboard
As I already said, this deck operates on few lands. I want a two cc spell that can be operative in grindy match-ups. At fist I thought about having 2-3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, which is indeed a two drop and helps against Humans + Spirits. Yet, we are back to the usual problem: it suffers from GH. I want an effective B-plan when my opponents are on black Leylines for game two/three. Other than that, Peezy is a house vs BGx, and the opening turn one discard, turn two Pyromancer has been crazy good for postboard games. We want to stick a threat, most and foremost, even in grindy match-ups. If we only had to take care of Humans, I would choose Jace for sure.
Other than that, I'm evaluating the single Island in the maindeck. With only 8 maindeck blue spells, it may be a second Swamp (cause we definitely need at least two basics, and Mountain is a useless one).
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Watery Grave
2x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Island
Creatures (13)
4x Street Wraith
4x Death's Shadow
3x Gurmag Angler
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Thought Scour
3x Mishra's Bauble
2x Faithless Looting
Permission (11)
4x Stubborn Denial
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Removals (8)
4x Fatal Push
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
Others (2)
2x Temur Battle Rage
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Collective Brutality
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Abrade
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Young Pyromancer
Let's analyze it.
1) No Snapcaster Mage? You crazy, bro?
The more we go in a Tempo direction, the less Snapcaster Mage appeals to me. For a certain period I was even playing the fifth (Jace, Vryn's Prodigy) maindeck. That was the time we durdled, with multiple Kommands in the maindeck. That time is over. I often found myself with dead Snappies in hand, casting them on turn two just for the purpose of having another body on the field. They are a great engine, don't get me wrong. But we are a deck which lives on one cc spells. Snapcaster, to have at least a marginal utility, needs to be cast as a three cc spell. An enormity.
2) This is a Jund list without green.
Yes, it is. I'm actually playing Traverse Shadow without green. Fact is, Traverse is such a bad magic card. I played my fair share of Jund Shadow, Sultai Shadow and 4C Shadow. Half the time I would have preferred a cantrip instead of it. Some other times is rendered useless by opponent's grave hate. Some other times drawing into threats instead of... anything else is actually a liability. Other than that, while Tarmogoyf is a very resilient creature, the ability of casting delve treaths for just one mana has made a HUGE difference, in my testing process. Simply put:
a) Scour > Traverse
b) Grixis Mana > 4C Mana (and Stubborn Denial > playing without Stubborn Denial)
c) Tarmogoyf == Gurmag Angler + Tasigur
I DO want, from the Traverse approach, the high number of cc1 plays (7 discard spells + 4 Stubb, other than all the cantrips!) plus the ability to deploy an early threat (so, one more Delve creature to find, and the set 4 Scours + 2 Looting in order to cast them with consistency).
3) What about the sideboard?
This deck can't play the value game in the traditional fashion. You basically operate on 2-4 lands for the whole match (and Looting is actually crazy good at discarding excess mana), so I'm avoid the "planeswalker trap". Young Peezy is important, though, against most grindy match-ups such as Control and BGx (other than acting as an additional threat versus certain typologies of combo decks). You can deploy it on the field on turn two, most of the time, cause it will exacerbate the opponent's removal before they can eat your "real" threats. I do like Spellbomb more than Surgical at the moment, and I would play Leyline as alternative in this list.
----
The tournament.
Swiss.
Round1// G-Tron 2-0
Round2// G-Tron 2-1
Round3// URw Phoenix 2-0
Round4// Abzan Company 2-0
Round5// Humans I.D.
Quarter// GB Rock 2-1
Semi// Spirits 2-1
Final// Amulet Titan 2-0
I close unbeaten. Very satisfatory result. Humans is probably the worst preboard matchup you can face, when playing with four Stubbs. Four Stubbs were an all-star the whole day, though, against the other archetypes. My sideboard is well tuned for Tron, which I consider a slightly positive match-up, and in testing I absolutely wrecked Phoenix and any kind of Combo deck. GB Rock is nowhere near to Jund's grindy level (though I would much likely play Rock in this meta, and that's good for us) and we can actually overrun them pretty easily unless they have nutdraws, thanks to the low-lands count. I fear more HS Affinity (again, the side is decently tuned for it) and Humans + hard Control.
I do think this should be the future for the archetype, at least in the incoming months.