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Last active Sat, Feb, 24 2018 16:55:14
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Feb 24, 2018I much prefer running 3 Dismember maindeck, because casting it for 1 + 4 life on turn one instead of two mana on turn two is better even against Goblin Guide matchups, as counterintuitive as it seems. I agree that we should have the full set of the card in the sideboard, though, to complement Dismember, bounce spells and Chalices.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Feb 23, 2018We also know that 3-C Midrange suffers a lot this kind of deck, regardless of the manabase attacks. Dealing with multiple Jace TMS, Search for Azcanta, Wraths and the “usual” UW core isn’t easy for them. IMHO, contrary to your belief, it’s time to pack additional Snapcaster Mage. Because, basically, it’s a great counter for BBE in its Ambush Viper + Path/Counter flashback for cascaded Goyf/Lily. It has worked wonders for me, and I’m just trying to implement the deck consistency a bit.Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
Not trying to dismiss your reasonings, anyway. And, basically, we’re still talking about a pseudo Tap-Out list, so it’s not really Draw-Go. It just happens to be more on that spectrum. I also convinced that Jace TMS is gonna be great in this deck, but our % against the field could easily become worse because BBE and Blue Scapeshift variants. Dunno. I’m actually leaning on another archetype, so I won’t be testing this out for a bit – and I still have to take exams, ugh.
Feb 23, 2018Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)I don’t know which strategy will prove to be more powerful as the dust from the unbannings settles, but I do think it’s going to be useful to conceive of UW tapout and UW draw-go as two separate shells, at least for now, since the superiority of the former setup is no longer necessarily a given. Am I overrating the potential of draw-go?
I'm basically stating the same. In my testing with Jace TMS, a Sea-less list put up WAY more results than when I worked with them in the main. I'm still with 5 land that mess with the opponents manabase, and I seriously think it's becoming the better deck - as much as I love the disruption package.
Feb 20, 2018Ehr, @jayjayhooks didn't attack you. He was just stating that "a black splash for Push and Lingering" means having to rethink the whole manabase, and you'll end up playing actual Esper. If you want to go that route, I suggest to open a new thread, because it has nothing to do with UW anymore - most likely, you will cut colorless lands and some basics, and that's the main benefit from playing two colors. We'll be glad to contribute. But you're overreacting, man, so chill out and stop being an ass.Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
About Miracles, I'm still unsure about it. I'm testing several decklists, and they are sometimes very powerful, other times just "fine", but worse than classic UW. I still have to figure out what is the best shell for Jace in UW. And I'm also re-considering Gideon of the Trials, because very aggressive decks seems to be kept in check by your usual Combo - UR Storm and a resurgence in G-Valakut - so that only Burn is a viable option, and Trials is good against Burn. While, with Settle in the deck, we can contain decently BBE. To be honest, what it really appeals to me in Miracles is playing lots of cantrips + some Entreats more than Terminus. Entreat is such a crazy card, even if you naturally cast it from the top in the midgame. If the metagame will focus more on Midrange strategies, Entreat just crush them.
I’m also unsure about jamming Jace TMS in our “usual” UW shell. I liked that before the unbans, but when we cut things like Sphere & Snare from the maindeck to make space for Walls and Jace, well, I think we’re conceding too much against a part of the field. Same goes for the 2cc counterspells: if Jace will be prevalent, then we have to pack more. Dunno. I feel like this isn’t the right way.
Feb 18, 2018I apologize for the double post, but I’m having issues with the computer and can’t modify the previous. I wanted to point out that I’m having trouble with my Scapeshift match-up. While Tron is usually a breeze post-side, because of all the disruption we can apply (Seize + Knot + Snap/Cryptic engine + Surgical) and Storm/AdNauseam feel favourable because discard is actually very good against them, we don’t really have a way to remove lands. We don’t care about things like Cavern of Souls, but Valakut simply kills us.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
So, I thought about running three copies of Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard, instead of Vendilions + one slot. They should answer the match-up nicely, and they’re still strong in the mirror, so that we could maybe shave the Elspeth from the sideboard. What do you guys think about this approach? (Geist + discards usually works well).
Feb 18, 2018Okay, so. I’m somewhat testing a decklist very different from my conventional standards. I guess that I wanted to capitalize on something we couldn’t really make work in the previous lists: a decent amount of discard spells. Discard is better than counterspells in the early game, that’s basically what we all know. Except it quickly become a nuisance in the mid-late, epecially in a list with no-pressure at all, and we can’t absolutely afford that.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Well, at least we couldn’t. Now, with Jace providing multiple Brainstorms each turn, it’s maybe time to finally gain the missing piece of the puzzle. Gimme these discard spells, please. Let me resolve Jace without issues. Let me strip the opponent of Stubborn Denial and Young Pyromancer, thanks. Let me have access to my opponent hand every time I need to, without having to worry about the lack of cards in mine. Guess what, Jace is very cool at doing this.
- 2x Surgical Extraction
- 1x Engineered Explosives
- 1x Supreme Verdict
- 1x Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
- 3x Blessed Alliance
- 1x Settle the Wreckage
- 2x Dispel
- 2x Negate
- 2x Vendilion Clique
The list could probably feat. the fourth Jace TMS or the third Search for Azcanta. Also the third Snapcaster Mage is a possibility, given the amount of cheap interaction we play, but I don’t want to lose hard against graveyard denial strategies. Cryptic + Discard is a well-know “combo”. Discards in the early game are very strong, and in the late we can shuffle them in our deck with Jace OR bounce a permanent with Cryptic to eliminate it definitely. Jace has been extra-strong, and probably this is the best shell for it (it usually lands on the field with empy hands and board).
I also considered a lone Academy Ruins in the maindeck, because it plays very well with Explosives. Those are insanely good. With that much discard spells, we usually don’t need the fourth wrath-effect in the maindeck, and Explosives covers that role with much more flexibility – also killing Lily, Chalice and Blood Moon. We aren’t Moon-proof, because the lack of Esper Charm, and Explosives also helps a lot in the Humans match-up, as well as against Lantern.
I thought about Lingering Souls, but in the end decided that Verdict and Settle are simply more powerful in the current metagame. Let’s see how this will change in the next months.
- 2x Surgical Extraction
Feb 17, 2018About Bolt-Mirror.Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
I only tested the match-up three times (one against Grixis Control, won 2-0, two against Jeskai Tempo/Geist – without Queller and with Geist + some Jace between main and sb, ended up 1-2; 2-1). It’s not enough, but the match-up always felt very close. It’s basically a Control mirror, where they can kill your planeswalkers with red spells and Snapcaster, but you usually have the advantage in counterspells and actual spells which aren’t Bolt, plus Detention Sphere that basically kills a resolved Jace or Nahiri whenever you’re behind. I genuinely don’t get why most people says “we can’t kill a resolved Jace”. Yes, we can. If we both have Jace on the field, obviously I don’t aim to Sphere it. But then, that means we resolved our before. If we didn’t, I’d cast Sphere BEFORE resolving our own blue walker. And, please, don’t shave Spheres. It felt amazing all the day, also in the mirror, because we don’t know what they actually plays – pre and postsb – between Keranos, Ajani, Secure the Wastes etcetera. Sphere answers all of them. My real concern isn’t the “Control” mirror, because I was never afraid of red spells playing this deck (putting Burn – as a deck – aside). The issue is, if we don’t have answers, a resolved Geist. Geist is very powerful both against U-based AND a resolved Jace TMS. So, yeah, be aware of what you’re playing against before carelessly tapping out. IMHO, and I’ll say that again, it’s time to go full Draw-Go, not Tap-Out. If we don’t know the whole meta, going Tap-Out is freaking wrong.
About Colonnade & Trials.
The whole point about keeping four Colonnades is the fact I suggest removing Trials. Trials isn’t any good, right now, except in few match-up were he is admittedly stellar. But then, I also faced some UBx Control (be it Sultai, Dimir or Esper) where it mattered A LOT having Colonnades to kill their Lilianas before the opponent could ultimate them. And they all used some mix of Field of Ruin and/or Spreading Seas. So, having the full set of Colonnades seems absolutely necessary. In the past I also shaved on them – more on Esper than in UW, but it’s basically the same. I don’t think it’s the time to be “cute”, because the opportunity cost of running one more Colonnade is most of the time very, very low. Even in match-ups where they are basically dead meat (like the UW Mirror).
About 3cc spells.
Yeah, probably I already said so… but, you know, Vendilion Clique is the truth
Feb 17, 2018Anyway, as indicative as this can be (pretty much Zero), my win rate skyrocketed from 68% to 82% since I'm testing this "brew". It has some flaws, but feels much more powerful compared to the Seas Jace-build (basically, the Wall-Gideon-Seas one). There were several situations where EOT Vendilion + Jace just won the game by itself, and you want to do this most of the time - so, the 3x for each felt definitely correct. Same goes for the amount of Spell Snare and Search for Azcanta. The latter is the glue of the deck, even if it actually most of the time in the early you'll just end up drawing naturally from the top. Still, it eliminates screw/flood completely when necessary, and it secures easy win in the pseudo mirror match - when the opponent is forced to cast things at sorcery speed (cause his Azcanta is blanked by our FoR) and we confortably search for answers/threats EOT. It seems that the Jace TMS unban has provided some shock in the format, but mostly I feel like we are one of the few strategies that can capitalize on him - only tapping out for the planeswalker when we have window for playing it, as it isn't our only CA engine. Actually, I only fear the "nonsensical hate" in form of multiple Choke/Boil/Thrun etcetera some people started packing. I've also seen some Jace's Defeat, lol.Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
Feb 17, 2018Well, we’ll probably agree to disagree about Cruel Ultimatum. I don’t see how that spell is even playable, right now, but I also respect your opinion. Too many clunky cards isn’t really where I want to be, expecially without knowing much about the metagame.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
About Blue Moon, yeah, I played my fair share of them. I mean, pretty much every possible list (Pyromancer, TTB, Madcap, heavy on Spreading Seas, Moon-less, Grixis Moon, with Vedalken and Pia&Kiran). It always felt lackluster on its win condition, I’ll agree with you here. But my point was another: Jace doesn’t really helps them that much, because the bad match-ups will stay bad. Against Jund-ish strategies, when you face bigger creatures than your answers (Bolt, Abrade, a pair of Roast/Harvest Pyre) you’ll end up losing in the long run. Maybe you didn’t considered that, but BBE also mean that Jund-ish decklists have a much better Blood Moon match-up (it just requires a basic Forest for them to cast BBE, Goyf, cascaded threats, Ooze and much more). The same goes about Tron and Eldrazi Tron. If you don’t run a combo finisher (as TTB can be) you’ll have a terrible Urza Lands MU. Because Blood Moon is freaking bad against them, whenever you can’t apply pressure. That’s basically how I see it. The issue isn’t Jace in Blue Moon, but the deck itself. I can only suppose the Young Pyromancer list will be prevalent, but even then I don’t see how the fundamental issues are dealt with.
Feb 17, 2018It’s not “just you”. In the sense, I obviously considered trimming a Cryptic Command because of the mana curve, and I already stated that I want the fifth cc2 counterspell (because, yes, the amount of turn three Jace it’s going to become quickly unbearable IMHO). I already considered the switch (first Mana Leak in spite of the fourth Cryptic – I would play the sixth fetch if I go up to three Logic Knot, and that’s another thing I’m considering at the moment).Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
The issue I’m concerned about is the usual: Big-Mana decks are going to be even more prevalent, and I’m quite annoyed by the fact Leak/Knot isn’t always going to be hard-counter in the long run. I get it, having four Cryptic Command in the maindeck is sometimes clunky. But it also line up extremely well against BGx, Lantern and random things you’ll face these months, because the metagame will probably assest only after a while. The lack of Spreading Seas means you’ll have to be more careful with your counterspells. And, seriously: whenever I play this deck without the fourth Cryptic Command I always end up regretting my choice. Always.
(Anyway, the curve isn't much higher: I used to play 2 Jace AOT and 2 Secure the Wastes before adding three copies of the Mind Sculptor, and Seas/Vendilion is a very different slot).
About Gideon of the Trials, I’m always very conflicted. Because there are some match-ups where he’s really strong (like, against Burn or Shadow). That said, GoTT requires you to tap-out more than I found profittable, and line up very bad against Snap-Bolt, BBE, go-wide strategies. Vendilion is – putting it bluntly – a much better card against Combo AND against Jace mirror, because it usually absorb a Bolt (otherwise directed to Jace), put on bottom their counterspell, let you resolve your own Jace. Other than just killing them, when they cast it on turn four without worring about consequences. And it has an immense power in dealing with Jace casted on turn three by Scapeshift or CoCo decks – while Gideon can be easily chumpblocked by dorks or delayed by Remand because of its sorcery speed. Vendilion also acts like a soft counterspell, so I actually have more than “just” four cc2 counterspells.
Feb 17, 2018That’s what I worked on in the few last days:Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
- 2x Condemn
- 2x Blessed Alliance
- 1x Celestial Purge
- 1x Detention Sphere
- 2x Supreme Verdict
- 1x Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
- 1x Negate
- 1x Disdainful Stroke
- 2x Dispel
- 2x Surgical Extraction
A very Jeskai-esque approach, as you can see. Differently from Jeskai, though, we run more flexibility and less raw closing power: Snare is less dead than Bolts, and sometimes even better, at the price of lining up badly against few archetypes in Modern. Multiples of Azcanta and Jace because the first is very strong against Combo, as it doesn’t require to tap-out even if we see it later in the game and it’s istant speed interaction, while Jace TMS simply plays well into other Jace decks and Midrange strategies – and randomies like Lantern. Vendilion, well, I already pointed out how the card is performing. It’s been, in these three-four days, litterarly the best card in my deck. Against other Jace decks, it’s an answer that line up well also when they’re able to turn three their planeswalker (looking at you, Temur Scapeshift, Bant Knightfall and U-Tron), while against archetypes that doesn’t present Jace it’s simply naturally strong (Combo, Big-Mana, Jund, Shadow).
I have a split between Settle and Verdict because IMHO Dredge & Hollow One are going to be very prevalent, in a metagame where Ux decks will have a resurgence. I don’t want to always lose game one against them. With the addiction of Clique in the maindeck, it also conflicts much less with our Vendilions, and it also performs decently against BBE and Eldrazi. Without Spreading Seas in the deck, we probably worry a little bit more about manlands too (even though five FoR/GQ usually are more than enough). I only worry about the pinnacle of Geists we’ll see in the next future, as this card is a clean answer to any non-creature Jace deck. I’d like to have a fifth 2-cc counterspell in the maindeck (probably a Mana Leak) and the second Celestial Purge in the board, I’m trying to make space for them.
- 2x Condemn
Feb 17, 2018@Cody_XPosted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
IMHO, the issue isn’t about Cruel Ultimatum being playable, but instead if we WANT to play it. Whenever I’m running a deck with Jace, Snapcaster and burn spells, I’m also sure that I don’t intend to commit any other slot to conclude the game. And, as you also pointed out, counterspells in that decklist are on the lower end. I would spend these slots in the fourth Cryptic and second Negate, as previously said. But I also want a second Fatal Push, because you’ve got very few interaction against Shadow decks otherwise.
Still IMHO, Blue Moon decks are going to go nowhere if they just cut TTB/Madcap from their decklists. Those are the cards that keep the deck alive in the hard match-ups. Jace doesn’t provide the same effect. That’s why I’m much, much more sceptical about a UR resurgence (the only real UR deck I can see improved by Jace unban is the heavy-Pyromancer one – and, still, it will fold most of the time against archetypes that feature bigger threats).
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