Similarly, if I have a morph creature that was created by, for example, Mastery of the Unseen that is not a creature card, would it return face up as its proper self, or stay exiled.
The reason why I ask, is the ability on Displacer specifically says creature for its target, and only states "return IT to the battlefield tapped under its owners control" which makes me think it doesn't have a "return only if it's a creature card" clause.
I hope my question makes sense, and thank you in advanced to anyone who answers.
I too am brewing a Bant deck right now. Nothing has been tested however, but the idea is fairly similar to yours.
My variant uses Mastery of the Unseento cheat my threats into play at EoT while keeping tempo with cards like Reflector Mage and Eldrazi Displacer. While buying time out tempo-ing my opponent, I will be trying to get a combo online using Brood Monitor and Alter of the Brood. I've always loved winning without damage, and this is how I will do it.
I will put more thought into a deck list later, but that's the general idea I'm working on.
Well, I went 2-1 tonight before I just dropped. The tournament was going to last past midnight and I'm used to going to sleep around 9. Lol.
Round 1: 2-1 Mono White
Round 2: 2-0 UW Mill
Round 3: 0-2 Jeskai Black Superfriends
Notes, as last minute I took out the two manlands for more basics to "activate" the Battle duals. Helped significantly. Had no issues casting any spells when desired (besides Drana, but more on that later)
I lost against the Superfriends list mainly from mana flood and not drawing Dramoka's Command, even after card draw from Abzan Charm in game 2. I got him down to 4 game 1 and 6 game 2, so it's not impossible. Just had poor luck (and still did decent)
The game I lost against Mono White was a mull to 5 keeping a one lander.
Changes I will ultimately be making (besides a proper SB) is removing Drana completely. Every time I drew her, I had better options. I generally sided her out for Abzan Charm, so that's likely what will be going in her place. There was an idea my friend was bouncing around with me for adding Den Protector as a 2 of in the list just to have the mild recurrence and a near unblockable beater in some cases.
I'll follow up tomorrow sometime with what I'll be changing the deck to be and with my reasons for each choice.
Yeah, in my testing I did last week, it wasn't very consistent with hitting early basics. I'm changing my land base to incorporate 2 more basics, which will likely be a mountain and another plains.
Drana is also being fairly iffy for me in my testing. Double black isn't very consistent on turn 3 as double green is, so I may test a couple Undergrowth Champion in its place. It can grow out of radiant flames' reach and survive it even with only one counter.
Right now, Sorin is doing more work than Gideon in the deck, so we will see after Friday how I feel about him in the deck.
Card draw would be the most useful mode on Abzan Charm I feel. Gideon can be taken care of with Crackling Doom, and if it proves to be a problem in Game 1, then Ruinous Path in the SB would be more than enough. If your meta is more midrange/control, then the Radiant Flames in my list would be replaced with Ruinous Path. I'll be playing this Friday, so I'll let you know what tweaks I'll be making as well as a tourney write up of my matches.
Running fetches don't just make the deck more expensive... It thins out your land draws, which becomes significantly more noticeable in the late game. Getting 4 land and then continuing to draw land instead of gas loses games, regardless of the matchup.
I haven't played in a tourney with it yet, so I can't really say if my decks differences are better or worse just yet, but I will be piloting this list next week.
Ive been running a version of 4c Midrange for a while now (way before Brad Nelsons list popped up), but that neither here nor there. Heres what my list looks like:
Ive tweaked the manabase multiple times, and this has been the most effective and consistence for my version of the deck. Fleecemane Lion, according to my opponents, is one of the most frustrating cards to play against (aside from Crackling Doom, let alone side by side). Ive used every mode on Abzan Charm pretty equally. Putting two +1/+1 counters on him in response to a lightning strike has literally won me games.
One thing some might notice that I'm running a full set of Mana Confluence. This was an easy inclusion because of how much potential lifegain this deck produces. I haven't eyeballed every post in this thread, but i find Ajani Steadfast to push this deck past its previous reach. Ive won games i had no right winning simply because i played Steadfast. Being able to attack with a Siege Rhino into an opposing Rhino (+1/+1 and first strike) while also being able to block a potential alpha strike (vigilance) is a very safe and rewarding play.
I'll be taking this list to an Open Trial tomorrow. Ill post my results when possible.
In all honesty, i would bring the average CC down. As control-like as your deck may seem, dedicated control will outlast you 9 times out of 10. Elvish Mystic accels you into your 3 drops, but the one worth while (Brimaz) is double white, so its pretty hit or miss on if you will actually cast it turn 2. To give the illusion of pressure, and to put your opponent on tilt, i would use Experiment One in place of Mystic. Your curve is near perfect to evolve him for 3-4 turns after he is cast, and the regeneration ability actually matters in some matchups. With all this being said, im suprised you arent running Advent of the Wurm. Its a 5/5 Trample with Flash essentially. MVP in my Naya deck hands down.
I would either add red to make it more aggressive, or blue to utilize tempo. Three colors arent unheard of now that the new "City of Brass" has been printed.
This is a far more resilient list. I know it's not Bant, but I feel GWU's time isn't now. Depending on what the next block gives us, Bant could be possible, but there just isn't enough support for it right now. 2cc spells are vital in my opinion. Red is used for madcap skills, Boros charms, and chained to the rocks (needs mountains). The chained to the rocks is your spot removal used on creatures you otherwise can't kill in combat, or are threatening to keep on board. Boros charm is used for all it's choices. 2 in hand = 8dmg in the least. It protects against wrath effects, and can be a surprise combat trick to give double strike out of nowhere to steal the game. Madcap skills is the perfect 2cc enchantment that allows the deck to run smoothly. In the early game, you will go uncontested:
Turn 1- Gladecover Scout
Turn 2- Madcap, swing for 4
Turn 3- Ethereal Armor, Chained to the rocks, swing 7
Turn 4- Boros Charm (double strike). GG
That's a very possible hand as it doesn't use multiples, and it's not asking for it all to be in your opener.
Just a little something that I've been throwing around in my head.
As much as I love double strike, those very words paint the biggest target on both Fencing Ace and Fabled Hero. My personal opinion would be to use Ajani, Caller of the Pride as your double strike outlet, granting the ability to any of your hexproof creatures.
Sylvan Caryatid is likely the best two drop for a 3 color deck as it allows stability, and consistency in your plays. I currently play a Naya deck, and it utilizes both Sylvan Caryatid and Fleecemane Lion in the 2cc slot.
I would take out Aqueous Form completely. Sure it gives you the ability to go unblocked, but it does t pump your creature, so it's hardly worth while. I would sooner play Thassa, God of the Sea. It is an enchantment, so it boosts the Eidolon of Countless Battles and Ethereal Armor, as well as helps set up your draws AND gives unblockability for two mana.
In a deck like this, you want to play constant threats, and keep said threats on the board. The only counter magic you really should consider are things comparable to Negate, or something that grants indestrucibility/regenerate for mass removal, as that's all that your opponent will be able to use if 90% of your creatures have hexproof.
If I had Brimaz, I would run a 2/2 split of him and Boon Satyr. I love the Satyr for the fact that I can leave my mana up for a removal spell if they play a creature/planeswalker, OR play Satyr at EOT. His Bestow is always satisfying on anything that has trample. Loxodon Smiter has proven to be less than thrilling in my testing. Im actually planning on acquiring Voice of Resurgence, but Im still unsure on what I would take out for them.
Advent of the Wurm is probably one of the most powerful cards in the deck to be honest. There is nothing that will make me remove them, they are that good. Ive also thought on Courser of Kruphrix in place of Boon Satyr, but Im currently on the fence with it, as i dont like telegraphing what im playing, and I run fewer lands than most decks currently, so its hard to grasp its usefulness in this deck.
Thats another thing, Im curious on all the outs against a Stormbreath Dragon. I didnt even think of Imposing Soveriegn, but I was throwing around the idea of testing Celestial Flare as i will more than likely have double white mana by the time they are playing the dragon. I already have the Mizzuim Mortars, but I also like not losing life, so instant speed is very nice in my eyes.
I currently have been playing with skylasher, and Mistcutter int the SB, but i havent gotten the chance to play against control. Ive also never faced a Mono B deck yet, so im glad to know Skullcrack is well placed against that. Ill likely add Judges Familiar to the board.
Again, thank you so much for your reply. Its helped a lot.
Similarly, if I have a morph creature that was created by, for example, Mastery of the Unseen that is not a creature card, would it return face up as its proper self, or stay exiled.
The reason why I ask, is the ability on Displacer specifically says creature for its target, and only states "return IT to the battlefield tapped under its owners control" which makes me think it doesn't have a "return only if it's a creature card" clause.
I hope my question makes sense, and thank you in advanced to anyone who answers.
My variant uses Mastery of the Unseento cheat my threats into play at EoT while keeping tempo with cards like Reflector Mage and Eldrazi Displacer. While buying time out tempo-ing my opponent, I will be trying to get a combo online using Brood Monitor and Alter of the Brood. I've always loved winning without damage, and this is how I will do it.
I will put more thought into a deck list later, but that's the general idea I'm working on.
Round 1: RB Eldrazi Blade 2-1
Round 2: RG Landfall 2-0
Round 3: BW Warriors 2-0
Round 4: Abzan Midrange 1-1 (intentional draw)
4x Warden of the first tree
2x Soulfire Grandmaster
2x Heir to the Wild
2x Hangerback Walker
2x Den Protector
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Siege Rhino
2x Butcher of the Horde
4x Dromoka's Command
4x Crackling Doom
1x Valorous Stance
1x Murderous Cut
3x Radiant Flames
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands
23 (changing my mana later from some tech the Abzan player let me in on.)
2x Utter End
2x Self-Inflicted Wound
2x Surge of Righteousness
1x Duress
1x Murderous Cut
1x Valorous Stance
1x Radiant Flames
3x Abzan Charm
2x Mastery of the Unseen
Round 1: 2-1 Mono White
Round 2: 2-0 UW Mill
Round 3: 0-2 Jeskai Black Superfriends
Notes, as last minute I took out the two manlands for more basics to "activate" the Battle duals. Helped significantly. Had no issues casting any spells when desired (besides Drana, but more on that later)
I lost against the Superfriends list mainly from mana flood and not drawing Dramoka's Command, even after card draw from Abzan Charm in game 2. I got him down to 4 game 1 and 6 game 2, so it's not impossible. Just had poor luck (and still did decent)
The game I lost against Mono White was a mull to 5 keeping a one lander.
Changes I will ultimately be making (besides a proper SB) is removing Drana completely. Every time I drew her, I had better options. I generally sided her out for Abzan Charm, so that's likely what will be going in her place. There was an idea my friend was bouncing around with me for adding Den Protector as a 2 of in the list just to have the mild recurrence and a near unblockable beater in some cases.
I'll follow up tomorrow sometime with what I'll be changing the deck to be and with my reasons for each choice.
Drana is also being fairly iffy for me in my testing. Double black isn't very consistent on turn 3 as double green is, so I may test a couple Undergrowth Champion in its place. It can grow out of radiant flames' reach and survive it even with only one counter.
Right now, Sorin is doing more work than Gideon in the deck, so we will see after Friday how I feel about him in the deck.
4x Warden of the First Tree
4x Hangerback Walker
2x Soulfire Grand Master
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Siege Rhino
2x Butcher of the Horde
4x Dromoka's Command
4x Crackling Doom
3x Radiant Flames
2x Valorous Stance
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
LAND
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Canopy Vista
4x Smoldering Marsh
2x Cinder Glade
2x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
I found that the Hangerback Walkers play well with Drana, Anafenza, Butcher, Gideon(emblem anthem), and Sorin(pseudo-anthem).
Soulfire Grand Master is amazing with Radiant Flames, and recurring removal in the late game.
4x Warden of the First Tree
4x Hangerback Walker
2x Soulfire Grand Master
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Siege Rhino
2x Butcher of the Horde
4x Dromoka's Command
4x Crackling Doom
3x Radiant Flames
2x Valorous Stance
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
LAND
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Canopy Vista
4x Smoldering Marsh
2x Cinder Glade
2x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Coursee of Kruphix
2x Butcher of the Horde
4x Siege Rhino
2x Stormbreath Dragon
Non-Creatures
4x Lightning Strike
2x Abzan Charm
4x Crackling Doom
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Ajani Steadfast
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Murderous Cut
1x Crater's Claws
4x Nomad Outpost
4x Mana Confluence
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Mountain
1x Swamp
2x Arc Lightning
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Drown in Sorrow
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Duneblast
Ive tweaked the manabase multiple times, and this has been the most effective and consistence for my version of the deck. Fleecemane Lion, according to my opponents, is one of the most frustrating cards to play against (aside from Crackling Doom, let alone side by side). Ive used every mode on Abzan Charm pretty equally. Putting two +1/+1 counters on him in response to a lightning strike has literally won me games.
One thing some might notice that I'm running a full set of Mana Confluence. This was an easy inclusion because of how much potential lifegain this deck produces. I haven't eyeballed every post in this thread, but i find Ajani Steadfast to push this deck past its previous reach. Ive won games i had no right winning simply because i played Steadfast. Being able to attack with a Siege Rhino into an opposing Rhino (+1/+1 and first strike) while also being able to block a potential alpha strike (vigilance) is a very safe and rewarding play.
I'll be taking this list to an Open Trial tomorrow. Ill post my results when possible.
I would either add red to make it more aggressive, or blue to utilize tempo. Three colors arent unheard of now that the new "City of Brass" has been printed.
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Hopeful Eidolon
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Witchstalker
3x Fiendslayer Paladin
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Chained to the Rocks
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3x Madcap Skills
4x Boros Charm
This is a far more resilient list. I know it's not Bant, but I feel GWU's time isn't now. Depending on what the next block gives us, Bant could be possible, but there just isn't enough support for it right now. 2cc spells are vital in my opinion. Red is used for madcap skills, Boros charms, and chained to the rocks (needs mountains). The chained to the rocks is your spot removal used on creatures you otherwise can't kill in combat, or are threatening to keep on board. Boros charm is used for all it's choices. 2 in hand = 8dmg in the least. It protects against wrath effects, and can be a surprise combat trick to give double strike out of nowhere to steal the game. Madcap skills is the perfect 2cc enchantment that allows the deck to run smoothly. In the early game, you will go uncontested:
Turn 1- Gladecover Scout
Turn 2- Madcap, swing for 4
Turn 3- Ethereal Armor, Chained to the rocks, swing 7
Turn 4- Boros Charm (double strike). GG
That's a very possible hand as it doesn't use multiples, and it's not asking for it all to be in your opener.
Just a little something that I've been throwing around in my head.
Sylvan Caryatid is likely the best two drop for a 3 color deck as it allows stability, and consistency in your plays. I currently play a Naya deck, and it utilizes both Sylvan Caryatid and Fleecemane Lion in the 2cc slot.
I would take out Aqueous Form completely. Sure it gives you the ability to go unblocked, but it does t pump your creature, so it's hardly worth while. I would sooner play Thassa, God of the Sea. It is an enchantment, so it boosts the Eidolon of Countless Battles and Ethereal Armor, as well as helps set up your draws AND gives unblockability for two mana.
In a deck like this, you want to play constant threats, and keep said threats on the board. The only counter magic you really should consider are things comparable to Negate, or something that grants indestrucibility/regenerate for mass removal, as that's all that your opponent will be able to use if 90% of your creatures have hexproof.
If I had Brimaz, I would run a 2/2 split of him and Boon Satyr. I love the Satyr for the fact that I can leave my mana up for a removal spell if they play a creature/planeswalker, OR play Satyr at EOT. His Bestow is always satisfying on anything that has trample. Loxodon Smiter has proven to be less than thrilling in my testing. Im actually planning on acquiring Voice of Resurgence, but Im still unsure on what I would take out for them.
Advent of the Wurm is probably one of the most powerful cards in the deck to be honest. There is nothing that will make me remove them, they are that good. Ive also thought on Courser of Kruphrix in place of Boon Satyr, but Im currently on the fence with it, as i dont like telegraphing what im playing, and I run fewer lands than most decks currently, so its hard to grasp its usefulness in this deck.
Thats another thing, Im curious on all the outs against a Stormbreath Dragon. I didnt even think of Imposing Soveriegn, but I was throwing around the idea of testing Celestial Flare as i will more than likely have double white mana by the time they are playing the dragon. I already have the Mizzuim Mortars, but I also like not losing life, so instant speed is very nice in my eyes.
I currently have been playing with skylasher, and Mistcutter int the SB, but i havent gotten the chance to play against control. Ive also never faced a Mono B deck yet, so im glad to know Skullcrack is well placed against that. Ill likely add Judges Familiar to the board.
Again, thank you so much for your reply. Its helped a lot.