I thought the art was originaly published with "Shivan Dragon" in a tag at the bottom, but that due to some of the boxes (IIRC the box that has the 10th startes (the boxes with 2 boosters and a pack of ~5 land and simplified play rules, not the ones with 75 cards) in it) had the 9th ed Shivan Dragon art so we were leaning to that art being Shivan Hellkite...
or is the theory that the Foil Shivan Dragon will have different art then the normal one?
I think Lorwyn will have special basic land in it (simmilar to Snow Covered land from Ice Age), and the boosters for Lorwyn may include a single land as a 16th card.
Atleast I think that is the most likely thing to include *IF* Lorwyn has a 16th card (or any other bonus over 1 rare, 3 uncommons, and 11 commons (its just as likely that lorwyn will be 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 9 commons, 2 land (if it has lands in the booster))).
What makes me think this you ask? Because the Lorwyn lands are "Super Secret and can't be shown yet" (be sure to actually click on one of the boxes)
Quote from Magic Arcana June 14th »
Note that the basic land pack contains a special treat for you, too—lands that feature a sneak peek at Lorwyn, Magic's next large expert-level set coming this October
Quote from Magic Arcana June 14th »
They're so secret, we can't show you them here yet!
[edit]We know there will be a rule insert to boosters (explaining the new card type) from an interview with MaRo IIRC[/edit]
I'm not sure that I understand with the whole Rule of Law being a good sideboard card against DS. It says Players can only play one spell per turn, but doesn't the storm copies just go on the stack... as in the player doesn't play it.
DS starts with a Turn 1 Lotus, the other guy drops a Rule of Law, and says go.
lotus resolves and DS has to say go... its like a time walk, not to mention the DS player can't ever get a storm count and has to honistly cast Dragon Storm (without rituals, he can however use the lotus and storage lands).
Searching for a single dragon does not a dragon storm make... especialy since you can just counter the dragon storm and not worry about 4 more storm copies.
As for Dragon Storm being a good or bad deck...
if a deck has a 40% chance to win first turn, and other wise it loses, it will win 35% of it's matchups. In a say 6 rounds of Swiss if 525 people play it then odds are atleast one version of the deck will be undefeated.
A deck with a 50% first turn win only needs 64 people to play it for one of them to go undefeated in 6 rounds of swiss...
Keep in mind that both those decks LOSE 50-60% of thier games to a deck full of 60 plains and nothing else. This is why a bad deck can Top 8, asumming that it has a combo that the opponent can't do anything about, and the only question is "Does it go off"?
Honistly if Dragon Storm was as good as a lot of people seem to think we would be seeing nothing but DStorm in the top 8 (or the top 16 for that matter). It really ONLY loses to itself (or someone else hapening to go of just a little faster with a slower combo). (by losing to itself I mean it doesn't draw what it needs to win before a reasonable clock ticks off)
my 2 cents.
Why? so you can redeem them for actual physical cards. If WOTC was feeling particularly generous they would be thier own series and you could redeem just the 6 tokens for physical ones.
Just an idea... but whatever they keyworded it as... make it an adjective to that options can be added, similar to Protection (and yes i realize Protection was/is considered too complex for core sets, thus not granting it evergreen status... but according to Maro's recent article this is going to change).
If they have such an issue with Fear being tied into Black and Artifact creatures... come up with a new keyword and retrofit any old cards.
Protection was in 9th... it will be in 10th (paladin en-Vec)
Mark has said that he wishes Fear read
Fear (This creature can be blocked only by artifact creatures and creatures of the same color)
Although to be fair he didn't specify if a Red/White creature could block a red creature with fear, or if a red creature could block a red/white creature with fear. If and when they 'fix' fear expect it to be a new keyword, and probably key off the creature's color instead of an add-on word.
Could Cloudpost possibly fit inbetween Caves and Feary Conclave?
yes, we don't know where artifacts end and lands begin. Additionaly only the last two of the non-basic lands are fixed as far as card number goes. Cloudpost could easily fit into X.
Interesting little observation: The new art we thought was for Shivan Dragon is for Shivan Hellkite as sitting on those boxes is the old art for Shivan Dragon. Just thought i'd point it out.
where, the red box is Kammal. [edit: NM, for some reason I saw the shivan on the display box and was thinking it was the new shivan dragon art... its what I get for not buying any core set sence 6th, and none of my friends buying much or playing with shivan dragon, still its a mockup, looks like CG not even a picture of a physical mockup, so it may very well be a mistake, or the new art is only on the foil (or the old art is on the foil?)]
I am going with Lorwyn having a type of basic land all its own (like snowcovered was to Ice age block)... otherwise why would it be a secret.
I don't think that the entire cycle has to be included, though, the fact that they fit alphabetically does make me wonder.
As far as I know we don't *KNOW* the collector numbers of any of the land other then Underground River*, but educated guesses would place them at those points, with the blanks reserved for the three most likely additions (the other man-lands).
We can also use the known artifacts to guess where the division between artifacts and lands are... but it might be possible that there are another few lands in there as well. The number crunch involves a lot of 'best guess'ing, and while its a good tool keep in mind that sometimes those cards are moved as we find out more about the set.
Keep in mind that I agree with the spoiler we have and believe that we will be adding the other three man-lands to it shortly. However we don't *KNOW* that the holes are in those places, and we don't know that the man-lands are in yet. Unless ofcourse I missed something and the number of some of the other cards in that area are actually known (other then the basic lands)
Desert Desert Adarkar Wastes Adarkar Wastes Condemn Remand *** is a mulligan?
Feel free to mix up those lands and spells. 3-4 nonbasic lands and 3-4 spells should not be a mulligan.
Wastes Wastes Remand Remand xxx?
Against Gruul? (mountain, mountain, forest, Kird Ape, Scab-clan Maulers, Scan-Clan Maulers, Rift Bolt) it just might be. no sense in doing ~5 damage to yourself to actually cast what you have in hand when you don't have enough deserts to even kill one of his creatures.
Assume Gruul will drop an ape and a mauler, and just beat with those unless you show creatures or kill one. (2 damage on turn 2, 5+3 (rift bolt) on 3, 5 on turn 4, and turn 5 (assuming they never drew another bolt or shock)
Condemning the Ape saves you 1 damage from that attack (saves 2, costs 1), he recasts another after the attack, Wrath saves you 3 damage from the next attack (saves 5, costs 2), Remand may save you 1-2 damage if he has to recast the creature the next turn (2-3 from the attack, but at the cost of 1 damage), but those wastes really shrink the advantage you could get.
Keep in mind that a Tron deck is more likely to draw 4 lands all of which are colorless, something like Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Power Plant, Desert, Urza's Factory, ***, Remand, Spell Burst.
Yes running the Nimbus maze makes your worst case a little worse, but it makes your average case better, and your best case much better. (consider Teramorphic, Desert, Nimbus, Plains, ***, Condemn, Remand, or for an even better draw, Nimbus, Fountain, Desert, Desert, Condemn, Remand, *** (which is more likely then your example draw above)
*disclaimer: Deck is meant to show a style of deck, it is not meant to be highly functional (ie win at tournaments) in it's current form. Should be used primarily to teach newer players about forms of control and the value of counters/removal, or for something like FNM. This is a quick list, not a tuned deck.
Terramorphic Expanse can get your maze to give you whichever color you want, so can the fountain. Deserts push the Mazes a little, but the mazes should still work fine between the expanses, fountains, and the basics (10-12 ways to turn on each of the colors). This deck takes a while to get simmilar caliber agro decks under full control, as such you don't want to help them with a pain land, Nimbus maze will almost always be active on both sides by about turn 3 or 4 unless you have a hand that should have been muliganed to begin with (and the deck has a lower muligan rate then most 'Tron decks).
This deck would LOVE to have the Grove of the Burnwillows in WU, not sure how it would play with a River of Tears in WU but I would be surprised if Maze of Tears would cause many problems (other then not letting you Momentary Blink and Condem durring your opponent's turn as often)
*when I first typed up the deck I had 2 more islands and 2 more plains instead of the deserts, but I think it would work okay as is (atleast for what it is intended to do) unless the metagame its played in doesn't go heavy on the weenies... then drop the deserts.
I think that if you're running that many colorless sources, the premium on having consistent, reliable colored sources raises that much more, don't you?
-E
Sure I do, thats why Nimbus Maze is bad in a Tron deck. I said that already.
That doesn't mean its a bad card... just that it is bad in a specific deck.
Cursed Scroll and Library of Alexandria don't belong in the same deck... does that make Library bad just because it doesn't belong in a Sligh deck?
Edit: Also I didn't say you would be running all those cards in the same deck, if you were they would cause problems simmilar to the maze in a Tron deck. Unless of course it was an artifact deck.
I thought the art was originaly published with "Shivan Dragon" in a tag at the bottom, but that due to some of the boxes (IIRC the box that has the 10th startes (the boxes with 2 boosters and a pack of ~5 land and simplified play rules, not the ones with 75 cards) in it) had the 9th ed Shivan Dragon art so we were leaning to that art being Shivan Hellkite...
or is the theory that the Foil Shivan Dragon will have different art then the normal one?
Atleast I think that is the most likely thing to include *IF* Lorwyn has a 16th card (or any other bonus over 1 rare, 3 uncommons, and 11 commons (its just as likely that lorwyn will be 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 9 commons, 2 land (if it has lands in the booster))).
What makes me think this you ask? Because the Lorwyn lands are "Super Secret and can't be shown yet" (be sure to actually click on one of the boxes)
[edit]We know there will be a rule insert to boosters (explaining the new card type) from an interview with MaRo IIRC[/edit]
First new card type sence ALPHA...
Clearly they don't consider future sight to have added a card type, thus Tribal has not been added... Thus its TRIBAL.
DS starts with a Turn 1 Lotus, the other guy drops a Rule of Law, and says go.
lotus resolves and DS has to say go... its like a time walk, not to mention the DS player can't ever get a storm count and has to honistly cast Dragon Storm (without rituals, he can however use the lotus and storage lands).
Searching for a single dragon does not a dragon storm make... especialy since you can just counter the dragon storm and not worry about 4 more storm copies.
As for Dragon Storm being a good or bad deck...
if a deck has a 40% chance to win first turn, and other wise it loses, it will win 35% of it's matchups. In a say 6 rounds of Swiss if 525 people play it then odds are atleast one version of the deck will be undefeated.
A deck with a 50% first turn win only needs 64 people to play it for one of them to go undefeated in 6 rounds of swiss...
Keep in mind that both those decks LOSE 50-60% of thier games to a deck full of 60 plains and nothing else. This is why a bad deck can Top 8, asumming that it has a combo that the opponent can't do anything about, and the only question is "Does it go off"?
Honistly if Dragon Storm was as good as a lot of people seem to think we would be seeing nothing but DStorm in the top 8 (or the top 16 for that matter). It really ONLY loses to itself (or someone else hapening to go of just a little faster with a slower combo). (by losing to itself I mean it doesn't draw what it needs to win before a reasonable clock ticks off)
my 2 cents.
Tokens.
Why? so you can redeem them for actual physical cards. If WOTC was feeling particularly generous they would be thier own series and you could redeem just the 6 tokens for physical ones.
Protection was in 9th... it will be in 10th (paladin en-Vec)
Mark has said that he wishes Fear read
Fear (This creature can be blocked only by artifact creatures and creatures of the same color)
Although to be fair he didn't specify if a Red/White creature could block a red creature with fear, or if a red creature could block a red/white creature with fear. If and when they 'fix' fear expect it to be a new keyword, and probably key off the creature's color instead of an add-on word.
yes, we don't know where artifacts end and lands begin. Additionaly only the last two of the non-basic lands are fixed as far as card number goes. Cloudpost could easily fit into X.
yes, the starter box is going to have the 5 allied Horizon Canopy lands... didn't they say basic?
I am still going with something like Snow-covered. Been expecting it sence Coldsnap.
where, the red box is Kammal. [edit: NM, for some reason I saw the shivan on the display box and was thinking it was the new shivan dragon art... its what I get for not buying any core set sence 6th, and none of my friends buying much or playing with shivan dragon, still its a mockup, looks like CG not even a picture of a physical mockup, so it may very well be a mistake, or the new art is only on the foil (or the old art is on the foil?)]
I am going with Lorwyn having a type of basic land all its own (like snowcovered was to Ice age block)... otherwise why would it be a secret.
As far as I know we don't *KNOW* the collector numbers of any of the land other then Underground River *, but educated guesses would place them at those points, with the blanks reserved for the three most likely additions (the other man-lands).
We can also use the known artifacts to guess where the division between artifacts and lands are... but it might be possible that there are another few lands in there as well. The number crunch involves a lot of 'best guess'ing, and while its a good tool keep in mind that sometimes those cards are moved as we find out more about the set.
Keep in mind that I agree with the spoiler we have and believe that we will be adding the other three man-lands to it shortly. However we don't *KNOW* that the holes are in those places, and we don't know that the man-lands are in yet. Unless ofcourse I missed something and the number of some of the other cards in that area are actually known (other then the basic lands)
[Note: * links to the wizards official list]
Against Gruul? (mountain, mountain, forest, Kird Ape, Scab-clan Maulers, Scan-Clan Maulers, Rift Bolt) it just might be. no sense in doing ~5 damage to yourself to actually cast what you have in hand when you don't have enough deserts to even kill one of his creatures.
Assume Gruul will drop an ape and a mauler, and just beat with those unless you show creatures or kill one. (2 damage on turn 2, 5+3 (rift bolt) on 3, 5 on turn 4, and turn 5 (assuming they never drew another bolt or shock)
Condemning the Ape saves you 1 damage from that attack (saves 2, costs 1), he recasts another after the attack, Wrath saves you 3 damage from the next attack (saves 5, costs 2), Remand may save you 1-2 damage if he has to recast the creature the next turn (2-3 from the attack, but at the cost of 1 damage), but those wastes really shrink the advantage you could get.
Keep in mind that a Tron deck is more likely to draw 4 lands all of which are colorless, something like Urza's Power Plant, Urza's Power Plant, Desert, Urza's Factory, ***, Remand, Spell Burst.
Yes running the Nimbus maze makes your worst case a little worse, but it makes your average case better, and your best case much better. (consider Teramorphic, Desert, Nimbus, Plains, ***, Condemn, Remand, or for an even better draw, Nimbus, Fountain, Desert, Desert, Condemn, Remand, *** (which is more likely then your example draw above)
Land (26)
4x Nimbus Maze
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Island
2x Plains
4x Desert
2x Calciform Pools
2x Urza's Factory
Creatures (6)
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3x Venser, Shaper Savant
2x Draining Whelk
Spells (28)
4x Cancel
4x Rewind
4x Remand
2x Spell Burst
3x Momentary Blink
4x Wrath Of God
3x Condemn
4x Icy Manipulator
*disclaimer: Deck is meant to show a style of deck, it is not meant to be highly functional (ie win at tournaments) in it's current form. Should be used primarily to teach newer players about forms of control and the value of counters/removal, or for something like FNM. This is a quick list, not a tuned deck.
Terramorphic Expanse can get your maze to give you whichever color you want, so can the fountain. Deserts push the Mazes a little, but the mazes should still work fine between the expanses, fountains, and the basics (10-12 ways to turn on each of the colors). This deck takes a while to get simmilar caliber agro decks under full control, as such you don't want to help them with a pain land, Nimbus maze will almost always be active on both sides by about turn 3 or 4 unless you have a hand that should have been muliganed to begin with (and the deck has a lower muligan rate then most 'Tron decks).
This deck would LOVE to have the Grove of the Burnwillows in WU, not sure how it would play with a River of Tears in WU but I would be surprised if Maze of Tears would cause many problems (other then not letting you Momentary Blink and Condem durring your opponent's turn as often)
*when I first typed up the deck I had 2 more islands and 2 more plains instead of the deserts, but I think it would work okay as is (atleast for what it is intended to do) unless the metagame its played in doesn't go heavy on the weenies... then drop the deserts.
10th has a better chance of having Shichifukujin Dragon then it does of having a single new card... (much less 10)
Sure I do, thats why Nimbus Maze is bad in a Tron deck. I said that already.
That doesn't mean its a bad card... just that it is bad in a specific deck.
Cursed Scroll and Library of Alexandria don't belong in the same deck... does that make Library bad just because it doesn't belong in a Sligh deck?
Edit: Also I didn't say you would be running all those cards in the same deck, if you were they would cause problems simmilar to the maze in a Tron deck. Unless of course it was an artifact deck.