But the question now becomes would Wizards risk upsetting more players to try to make the meta better?
They just used the banstick to hit standard for 3 cards in an open admission that they screwed up. The current set was already in the pipe when they realized they're off kilter and are losing sales. This is hard correction to fix the game, I see no reason why they wouldn't do it again. They've also just admitted they 'missed' the copycat combo. Screwed... up... again.
Standard is in a very satisfactory spot right now, there's no need to risk upsetting it.
I again have to disagree. Standard is still in a very bad place with no diversity. I don't consider copycat a control deck. There is a variant that is control-ish but the core deck which was at the resent big event is combo and creature/planeswalker beats. UR control is ok, but how many do we see top 8? Either version?
The reason behind the bans is they are losing people from standard.
My store, over the last year of CoCo crap up to now, went from 30+ at FNM to barely firing. People divested because of bad environment and the 'faster rotation' which was total trash. They went to Modern or quit. They need to get those people back and new people in. But expense and overpowered top 3 decks that leave little room for creativity are strangling them.
I seriously doubt they'll ban a walker. They need to go back to printing at least sideboard worthy hate cards for each strategy which they want to push. Where the **** is the GY hate? Why isn't there more vehicle hate (that's playable)? Planeswalker hate needs to be instant as Ruinous Farce loses way too much tempo.
Ballista is a great card... but as others have said it's not optimal. Tapping out for a couple of counters just to either be countered or killed quickly doesn't give you the protection. it leaves you vulnerable. I've been grind testing decks against copycat and the resiliency of that deck (with copters and bouncing and combos oh my) is head and shoulders beyond anything tier 2 and holds down a steady great average against the 2 (cough 1) other tier 1 decks.
Pros are posting these brews 'for fun' and in every article they talk about how they're weak against combo. Vehicles nut draws and speed is the only thing keeping it barely on top of dirty kitty.
Draw_Gone hit all the details on the head.
Lets not forget that the combo is something development MISSED. If cat said "another target creature or artifact" we wouldn't be here. We also have the way over-pushed vehicle plan to blame for the crazy efficiency of vehicles decks because they made all sorcery speed removal crap. I'm not seeing any Dec Stone in pro decklists, are you? Sorcery removal is complete trash because of vehicles and dirty kitty.
Personally I don't want to suffer through another year of combo like the unbridled reign of CoCo.
They know Standard is damaged and they are adjusting hard because sales are suffering. I will be unpleasantly surprised if they don't ban at least cat and heart.
Saying copycat is 'fragile' assumes that countering the combo once is sufficient. Run tests against it and you'll see that the deck does something NO OTHER DECK CAN DO which is win on any turn 4 or after. Your life total doesn't matter. You have a shock in hand... goody you stopped it once. Maybe you stop it the second time with another shock or a different instant. You are now completely at it's mercy... unless they already dispelled your instant and won.
No other deck can instawin at any point in the game like this one.
I see people being very judgy 'you're just not smart if you don't plan for it'. This is the point. The entire format is warped because you HAVE to plan for it. You can never tap out. You can never run out of cards and if they have a counterspell you're just done. So you either beat it super fast or face endgame at every turn.
Look at all the pro articles and how they talk about combo. Every event has been saturated with testing AGAINST copycat combo because of its devastating influence on deckbuilding.
My vote, since standard is in such horrible shape, is ban cat and heart. They will not ban Gideon. If they were going to they'd have done so. We do need Hero's Downfall back for sure though. Frankly I find copycat so unfun to deal with I would actually be quitting standard and playing only limited if anything if they DON'T ban it. I usually exclusively play standard at FNM a couple times a month. I'm a customer who buys product. I buy singles. I like to brew and play my brews. In the current environment brews have zip chance. CoCo was the plague that left us with FNMs that barely fire (from 30 every week) and Modern on the same night up to 30 from 12.
Copycat is ONLY not dominant because all the pros know they have to base maindeck strategy for it.
Something to consider is with infinite obliteration in sideboards vs eldrazi ramp, it seems prudent to have a mix in the sideboard of Kozi, Deso Twin, and for my part World Breaker. If you run the mix after board vs black you should be prepped. I might even pull out all my ulamogs if I KNOW they're going to board that in.
Yep that's the perfect build for her. Start her with -, if she sticks (which she will if gideon or sorin are out) make some dorks and hold out to minus her again.
Other than this, or a Hardened Scale deal (which I don't think gets better with her and she doesn't solve that decks consistency problems) she's kind of lost. Maybe plants will be a thing in Innistrad.
My thoughts are spot on with yours madsurgeon79! Any deck that wants her doesn't want to dump their hand.
I like analyzing the cards for what they do with what we know. Besides we have what, 9/10 mythics leaked? It's a small set and while most of it is to come how many cards in small sets impact standard over the mythic cycle? How many rares from Dragon's Maze or Fate are staples? Usually individual cards impact decks and we already have a bushel of mythics to think on!
While I question its rarity (mythic rare should mean epic but not necessarily standard staple. This has changed lately) this card is bonkers in Eldrazi Ramp. I read that some players prefer Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to Kozilek, the Great Distortion for the deck since it stabilizes the board. With this card this might change. Draw up to 7 plus clear the board when you cast Kozilek is backbreaking.
The thing with Ulamog is that much of the time you want to nuke specific lands to cut out their lines of play. I would vastly prefer to nuke an Abzan Player's two sources of Black/White/Green to cut them out of Abzan Charm, subsequent Rhinos, etc. The same is true for most other decks; disrupting their ability to continue playing is more vital to ramp than nuking their threats with Ulamog. This gives you the best of both worlds with Ulamog.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kozi, but he wont be replacing Ulamog because of this. I would vastly prefer the "Nuke two lands, wipe your board" over Kozilek's draw some cards and board wipe.
This is exactly what I do!! Nuking the lands usually is far better than creatures.
Kozilek's Return is the card I've been waiting for! Currently running UG Eldrazi this will put me back in red. My biggest problem is Abzan hitting their curve leaves you dead even if you drop Ulamog on time! Radiant Flames wasn't cutting it for me most of the time because of Anafenza and Gideon. The board state is too one sided. With Kozi you keep them down, then punch them out with the 7+ creature/exile. Gideon then has to faceplant into Ulamog. This might even remove a copy or 2 of Ugin in favor of Kozilek and World Breaker for those stinky Roc decks! I'm excited!
Dies to... pointless arguement you cast it with 8+ mana one counter in hand and it sticks.
This card begs to be designed around. UG control can ramp easily and get to 8+ early considering I'm casting Ugin and Ulamog consistently every friday night
Better dragons? Maybe but who says the formula doesn't include a copy of Silumgar?
This guy makes me want to brew UB UBG control. He's a house, not legendary, and you can't counter ANY OF MY SPELLS neener neener. Seems good in a current meta where control isn't flourishing, at least in my locale.
Worth noting the synergy with Hangarback Walker. Hard to judge this nissa. I don't love her but she is low on the curve, makes tokens, and only needs one turn to turn her 0/1 plants into a 1/2 plant. Abzan walkers certainly makes enough tokens between her, Gideon and Sorin.
Superfriends tokens seems like the best idea I've read yet. You plan to drop her after Gideon and/or Sorin... but right now I'd probably rather have something else in my hand at that point because unmolested Gideon alone has you winning already right?
I still think these walkers are looking for homes with next block. The flip walkers are much better with current meta.
I think the only way she makes it into RG ramp is after Ugin is gone. The wipe kills her to get rid of Anafenza et al and doesn't kill Rhino. Why pay 6 to wipe the board and have nothing? Kozilek's, radiant flames, crux all fill the spot better.
Control though, wipe the board then drop her and maybe at least one 3/1 gets through is possible... but again requires the setup and there are too many better competing cards right now!
I feel like Nissa and Chandra are setups for next block. The flip walkers are so much better right now that these other than Hardened Scales, and that requires setup. Her addition also doesn't exactly make Hard Scales that much better. If you're creatures are all getting plinked just making a 0/1 isn't helpful.
The utility argument is fine, however realistically most red decks aren't looking to cast anything for 6.
The Sphinx's Tutelage suggestion is likely the most telling for this card and scares me a bit but again it requires setup.
The comparison to Elspeth is misplaced because their function is so very different. American or Jund control might use her but look at the competing cards that come in under 6!!
Eldrazi Ramp, which I'm currently playing, really doesn't have a reason to play her or the room. Quite frankly Kozilek's Return, World Breaker, and Sphinx of the final word all are far more applicable than chandra to the variants of that deck... and awesome!
I predict sideboard for Chandra. Even Mardu mid or other dragonX decks have better things to cast BELOW her CMC or better board clears.
Unless we see another graveyard deck go nuts... which will probably be Innistrad block.
I couldn't disagree more for all the reasons stated already. A skilled player doesn't allow you to stop them.
They just used the banstick to hit standard for 3 cards in an open admission that they screwed up. The current set was already in the pipe when they realized they're off kilter and are losing sales. This is hard correction to fix the game, I see no reason why they wouldn't do it again. They've also just admitted they 'missed' the copycat combo. Screwed... up... again.
I again have to disagree. Standard is still in a very bad place with no diversity. I don't consider copycat a control deck. There is a variant that is control-ish but the core deck which was at the resent big event is combo and creature/planeswalker beats. UR control is ok, but how many do we see top 8? Either version?
The reason behind the bans is they are losing people from standard.
My store, over the last year of CoCo crap up to now, went from 30+ at FNM to barely firing. People divested because of bad environment and the 'faster rotation' which was total trash. They went to Modern or quit. They need to get those people back and new people in. But expense and overpowered top 3 decks that leave little room for creativity are strangling them.
I seriously doubt they'll ban a walker. They need to go back to printing at least sideboard worthy hate cards for each strategy which they want to push. Where the **** is the GY hate? Why isn't there more vehicle hate (that's playable)? Planeswalker hate needs to be instant as Ruinous Farce loses way too much tempo.
Pros are posting these brews 'for fun' and in every article they talk about how they're weak against combo. Vehicles nut draws and speed is the only thing keeping it barely on top of dirty kitty.
Draw_Gone hit all the details on the head.
Lets not forget that the combo is something development MISSED. If cat said "another target creature or artifact" we wouldn't be here. We also have the way over-pushed vehicle plan to blame for the crazy efficiency of vehicles decks because they made all sorcery speed removal crap. I'm not seeing any Dec Stone in pro decklists, are you? Sorcery removal is complete trash because of vehicles and dirty kitty.
Personally I don't want to suffer through another year of combo like the unbridled reign of CoCo.
They know Standard is damaged and they are adjusting hard because sales are suffering. I will be unpleasantly surprised if they don't ban at least cat and heart.
Saying copycat is 'fragile' assumes that countering the combo once is sufficient. Run tests against it and you'll see that the deck does something NO OTHER DECK CAN DO which is win on any turn 4 or after. Your life total doesn't matter. You have a shock in hand... goody you stopped it once. Maybe you stop it the second time with another shock or a different instant. You are now completely at it's mercy... unless they already dispelled your instant and won.
No other deck can instawin at any point in the game like this one.
I see people being very judgy 'you're just not smart if you don't plan for it'. This is the point. The entire format is warped because you HAVE to plan for it. You can never tap out. You can never run out of cards and if they have a counterspell you're just done. So you either beat it super fast or face endgame at every turn.
Look at all the pro articles and how they talk about combo. Every event has been saturated with testing AGAINST copycat combo because of its devastating influence on deckbuilding.
My vote, since standard is in such horrible shape, is ban cat and heart. They will not ban Gideon. If they were going to they'd have done so. We do need Hero's Downfall back for sure though. Frankly I find copycat so unfun to deal with I would actually be quitting standard and playing only limited if anything if they DON'T ban it. I usually exclusively play standard at FNM a couple times a month. I'm a customer who buys product. I buy singles. I like to brew and play my brews. In the current environment brews have zip chance. CoCo was the plague that left us with FNMs that barely fire (from 30 every week) and Modern on the same night up to 30 from 12.
Copycat is ONLY not dominant because all the pros know they have to base maindeck strategy for it.
Abz tokens or superfriends will crush the hardened scale turd. Get 'em!
Other than this, or a Hardened Scale deal (which I don't think gets better with her and she doesn't solve that decks consistency problems) she's kind of lost. Maybe plants will be a thing in Innistrad.
I like analyzing the cards for what they do with what we know. Besides we have what, 9/10 mythics leaked? It's a small set and while most of it is to come how many cards in small sets impact standard over the mythic cycle? How many rares from Dragon's Maze or Fate are staples? Usually individual cards impact decks and we already have a bushel of mythics to think on!
This is exactly what I do!! Nuking the lands usually is far better than creatures.
Kozilek's Return is the card I've been waiting for! Currently running UG Eldrazi this will put me back in red. My biggest problem is Abzan hitting their curve leaves you dead even if you drop Ulamog on time! Radiant Flames wasn't cutting it for me most of the time because of Anafenza and Gideon. The board state is too one sided. With Kozi you keep them down, then punch them out with the 7+ creature/exile. Gideon then has to faceplant into Ulamog. This might even remove a copy or 2 of Ugin in favor of Kozilek and World Breaker for those stinky Roc decks! I'm excited!
This card begs to be designed around. UG control can ramp easily and get to 8+ early considering I'm casting Ugin and Ulamog consistently every friday night
Better dragons? Maybe but who says the formula doesn't include a copy of Silumgar?
This guy makes me want to brew UB UBG control. He's a house, not legendary, and you can't counter ANY OF MY SPELLS neener neener. Seems good in a current meta where control isn't flourishing, at least in my locale.
Superfriends tokens seems like the best idea I've read yet. You plan to drop her after Gideon and/or Sorin... but right now I'd probably rather have something else in my hand at that point because unmolested Gideon alone has you winning already right?
I still think these walkers are looking for homes with next block. The flip walkers are much better with current meta.
Control though, wipe the board then drop her and maybe at least one 3/1 gets through is possible... but again requires the setup and there are too many better competing cards right now!
Just not impressive for current standard
The Sphinx's Tutelage suggestion is likely the most telling for this card and scares me a bit but again it requires setup.
The comparison to Elspeth is misplaced because their function is so very different. American or Jund control might use her but look at the competing cards that come in under 6!!
Eldrazi Ramp, which I'm currently playing, really doesn't have a reason to play her or the room. Quite frankly Kozilek's Return, World Breaker, and Sphinx of the final word all are far more applicable than chandra to the variants of that deck... and awesome!
I predict sideboard for Chandra. Even Mardu mid or other dragonX decks have better things to cast BELOW her CMC or better board clears.
Unless we see another graveyard deck go nuts... which will probably be Innistrad block.