Good card.
Cycling makes it playable, likely sideboard if any graveyard strat can ever pop again.
Seems like not a great way to exile scrapheap especially since they can return it in response.
To be clear, I do think this gideon is very good. I just think the people who were calling for preemptive gideon bans or declaring that they will leave standard for 2 years until it rotates out may have been overrating him a bit.
Without the previous sets utter imbalance, and Ally of Zendikar not legal... this Gideon would be just fine.
I would think with player clamoring for better answers, if they had a Hero's Downfall in this set they'd have spoiled it already to calm things down.
<Looks around>
My personal 'screw standard' is my stack of frustration which started with Rally/CoCo... through our year of CoCo... into a current meta with 2 completely OP decks that make deckbuilding obsolete. <'just hold shock' roll eyes>
Essence Scatter and Kefnet prove that blue control is going to continue to suck. They're giving us O-ring with a nerf and a cycling cantrip... bad. The continuation of consolidating power in white is plain. I see zero indication of a shift off battlecruiser magic (which is no surprise since this set was done when they realized and admitted they've blown it).
That's where my take a break and just play limited or not at all comes from.
Red trick cards have been bad for so long... this one seems like it's not.
I think they were tired of their special red getting laughed at as limited bombs. This card should play.
Gideon is disgusting. Squeeze 8 Gideons into vehicles (4 ally 4 Trials)
T2 Heart of Kiran
T3 New broken Gideon - emblem or +1
T4 If it survives begin 8 damage per turn swings - if dead play Ally or trials again.
T5 and again
T6 and again
T7 still can't lose the game... and again
Hey balance team at WotC... bite me I'm not buying any of your set until you screw your heads back on straight.
Can't lose the game... <grumble>
They didn't want to 'upset' people with bannings on March 13... what if they ban ally of Z?
So weak. Not even close to a delerium hoser, just play another demon and put 4 in the yard with the best 2 you saved. Or another one of the dozen ways to fill the yard...
Weak answer is almost as good as none.
So there's been a lot of talk about playability in Standard and Commander and a lot of talk about how the Amonkhet Gods could have been improved with abilities and requirements.
Let's start a new subject:
1. What do you guys think of the very, very normal template? They look exactly like normal creatures. One huge thing Theros Gods had going on for them was the clear distinction from other card types. They 'looked' like mythical Gods.
2. Do you really want each set to have more and more powerful cards? We call it power creep if each set has cards that replaces previous cards with the same (or somewhat same) function.
My guess is Wizards didn't want these to seem super majestic because they want us to know who's in charge on this world: Mr. Elder Dragon himself. We'll see more in Hour of Devastation.
What we're talking about here is a 'control' finisher when control isn't viable not just because of creep but because of overall design philosophy. We're also talking about the cards being realistically viable in standard. After this block we may have some hope of 'lessons learned' reaching a pack near you, but for right now, these cards have to do something to beat Vehicles and Copycat or they are garbage.
Design is where all this madness starts and it's the very battlecruiser magic philosophy that has WotC backpedalling (bans and admissions of mistakes).
Yes, we dont need to just have powerful answers, lets ban the offending decks outright. Thats sure to make Standard great....
It is not reasonable, at all, to expect them to have printed an answer to copy cat because they did not see the combo until well after this set was final. Copycat was literally a mistake, and a ban is the only option.
The ban was the only option on March 13th but 3 WEEKS BEFORE they decided, 'oh look, there's one single deck that might gain a small percentage of the meta. Lets not ban the mistake.' So saying only option is really wishful thinking. Meanwhile the meta is crushed and more people are quitting standard. Good job Sam. Good job Mark.
So many people saying 'late game'... what late game are we talking about with Vehicles and Copycat running the show?
This set was in the can when they realized 'oops we made all magic battlecruiser and nerfed counters and answers too much'. How on earth can we expect (unless there's a win con they DIDN'T intend that crops up) control to have a chance to get to late game.
7 cards in hand... when you play this card you've done nothing unless you have 7. Try to wedge this thing into Temur Tower... what do you kick out? UB is hopeless and will continue to be since you cannot get ahead with counters and removal. I'd still rather run Sphinx of the final word.
If so many people have to say 'if, if, maybe, etc' there is no way this will have a chance in hell. Even if they kick copycat (yes they should have done it already... cretins!) vehicles is still too efficient.
I really do wish we were in a place in standard where brewing with this guy could yield something but the requirement means you are only filling your hand and losing tempo with overcosted answers for a few short turns while they bring back creatures with non casting effects... which you have to take care of again.
The aesthetics of the split is off. I find myself distracted by the sideways text and half art while I'm reading the top. It's bad formatting. How often do you see this in a newspaper or a website you visit? How about print ads? Making things easier for people to read is the norm. The GY sideways thing seems to me them overthinking it and trying too hard to be different. If you like it great. To me it's a fumble just like mushing the colorwheel around (playing color favorites GW anyone?), pulling back removal and counters, and purposefully making battlecruiser magic the way of the land.
I personally don't call attention to the future tricks or what I can cast from my GY while playing. Seems silly.
Even when I'm T-gearhulking the only indication I like to give is my GY spread with card names so I can see them at a glance. At least the last time they were all the same direction. The use of the effects is fine, I've even used a few in standard and it's fun, but just don't make it so bloody ugly.
The monuments are a limited beating. Green - black - white being the best ones. What should your limited deck be full of? Creatures. +2/+2 every time you cast one and trample? Beating. Black and white are more grindy but they are significant.
The legendary part is fine as a stack of these things would just be completely stupid.
All colors except black using embalm... ok. As so many are pointing out the GW thing is leaking into UW and not as a good thing. Temmet, sorry man you're too expensive to embalm. G'head and rot... unless I have Oketra's monument...
This really looks like they didn't want too many of these in limited, not just because of the big swing it causes, but also because of Exert mechanic. It really does look like a must play if you can draft it as the potential blowouts are numerous.
The formatting is still completely vile. It's the aesthetic of it. The sideways text is an utter distraction even while you're reading the top. I don't do anything special with any cards in my GY even when I can cast a great number of them, why do I want to remind my opponent I have a special that could go off at any time? Booo-hsss.
Feels like a good creature.
Good generally isn't quite good enough.
That being said, if we get some cheap creatures that untap as an ETB or mana use effect this dragon gets much better. If the loss of tempo isn't a factor, doesn't it become a win more card? It's effect doesn't hit vehicles, which is a factor vs the top deck in Standard right now.
Does it fit in Mardu vehicles? Maybe a mirror shenanigan?
I do think the Saheeli blinking effect could be a thing, but isn't going infinite just better? What slot would it take because it doesn't draw you cards and Saheeli combo relies heavily on draw.
We will see... don't get me wrong, I think it's a great beatstick, but with today's standard you can't just be great, you have to be the best of the best to fit in... or at least stop the combo from going off.
Isn't that a complaint that also also applies to the insanely popular original split cards as well as the ones with fuse?
Insanely popular? Ok...
I didn't really like sideways cards then either. This iteration is obnoxious because at least then both sides were the same direction. Having the text for the second part separated without art would have been my preference.
Mostly your post just complains that I don't like it. I gave my reasons, you're just giving attitude.
As a Standard and Limited player I can honestly say I like spoilers. More spoilers good. The week before having the full set is satisfactory.
As for who they give the spoilers to? Let them reward the people who throw adulation their way, whatever. They make it to Salvation and mythicspoiler where I consume them so what... ever.
What is obnoxious is that marketing thinks they're doing ANYTHING AT ALL. They get mad their PLAN is foiled when there's an unauthorized leak. BooHoo. Their plan is usually just weak and if it's story related I really don't care. They are not story tellers, I pay ZERO attention to their banal plots. I want to know what the next Standard format is going to be warped by (though lately I'm caring less and less about they're broken Standard).
Make good cards. Balance the game. Release spoilers 3-4 weeks ahead in a trickle so I can consume them and we can yell at each other about them.
Do not assume marketing is earning their keep. They are not.
The core dump one week out, meh... I thought it was crappy when we had to pick our color or guild. Picking based on zero info at signup was total crap.
Now that they've removed that from the equation, meh... frankly an hour is long enough to absorb the common/uncommon trash dump after we've seen all the mechanics and the good cards.
Cycling makes it playable, likely sideboard if any graveyard strat can ever pop again.
Seems like not a great way to exile scrapheap especially since they can return it in response.
Without the previous sets utter imbalance, and Ally of Zendikar not legal... this Gideon would be just fine.
I would think with player clamoring for better answers, if they had a Hero's Downfall in this set they'd have spoiled it already to calm things down.
<Looks around>
My personal 'screw standard' is my stack of frustration which started with Rally/CoCo... through our year of CoCo... into a current meta with 2 completely OP decks that make deckbuilding obsolete. <'just hold shock' roll eyes>
Essence Scatter and Kefnet prove that blue control is going to continue to suck. They're giving us O-ring with a nerf and a cycling cantrip... bad. The continuation of consolidating power in white is plain. I see zero indication of a shift off battlecruiser magic (which is no surprise since this set was done when they realized and admitted they've blown it).
That's where my take a break and just play limited or not at all comes from.
I think they were tired of their special red getting laughed at as limited bombs. This card should play.
T2 Heart of Kiran
T3 New broken Gideon - emblem or +1
T4 If it survives begin 8 damage per turn swings - if dead play Ally or trials again.
T5 and again
T6 and again
T7 still can't lose the game... and again
Hey balance team at WotC... bite me I'm not buying any of your set until you screw your heads back on straight.
Can't lose the game... <grumble>
They didn't want to 'upset' people with bannings on March 13... what if they ban ally of Z?
Weak answer is almost as good as none.
What we're talking about here is a 'control' finisher when control isn't viable not just because of creep but because of overall design philosophy. We're also talking about the cards being realistically viable in standard. After this block we may have some hope of 'lessons learned' reaching a pack near you, but for right now, these cards have to do something to beat Vehicles and Copycat or they are garbage.
Design is where all this madness starts and it's the very battlecruiser magic philosophy that has WotC backpedalling (bans and admissions of mistakes).
The ban was the only option on March 13th but 3 WEEKS BEFORE they decided, 'oh look, there's one single deck that might gain a small percentage of the meta. Lets not ban the mistake.' So saying only option is really wishful thinking. Meanwhile the meta is crushed and more people are quitting standard. Good job Sam. Good job Mark.
This set was in the can when they realized 'oops we made all magic battlecruiser and nerfed counters and answers too much'. How on earth can we expect (unless there's a win con they DIDN'T intend that crops up) control to have a chance to get to late game.
7 cards in hand... when you play this card you've done nothing unless you have 7. Try to wedge this thing into Temur Tower... what do you kick out? UB is hopeless and will continue to be since you cannot get ahead with counters and removal. I'd still rather run Sphinx of the final word.
If so many people have to say 'if, if, maybe, etc' there is no way this will have a chance in hell. Even if they kick copycat (yes they should have done it already... cretins!) vehicles is still too efficient.
I really do wish we were in a place in standard where brewing with this guy could yield something but the requirement means you are only filling your hand and losing tempo with overcosted answers for a few short turns while they bring back creatures with non casting effects... which you have to take care of again.
I personally don't call attention to the future tricks or what I can cast from my GY while playing. Seems silly.
Even when I'm T-gearhulking the only indication I like to give is my GY spread with card names so I can see them at a glance. At least the last time they were all the same direction. The use of the effects is fine, I've even used a few in standard and it's fun, but just don't make it so bloody ugly.
The legendary part is fine as a stack of these things would just be completely stupid.
All colors except black using embalm... ok. As so many are pointing out the GW thing is leaking into UW and not as a good thing. Temmet, sorry man you're too expensive to embalm. G'head and rot... unless I have Oketra's monument...
The formatting is still completely vile. It's the aesthetic of it. The sideways text is an utter distraction even while you're reading the top. I don't do anything special with any cards in my GY even when I can cast a great number of them, why do I want to remind my opponent I have a special that could go off at any time? Booo-hsss.
Good generally isn't quite good enough.
That being said, if we get some cheap creatures that untap as an ETB or mana use effect this dragon gets much better. If the loss of tempo isn't a factor, doesn't it become a win more card? It's effect doesn't hit vehicles, which is a factor vs the top deck in Standard right now.
Does it fit in Mardu vehicles? Maybe a mirror shenanigan?
I do think the Saheeli blinking effect could be a thing, but isn't going infinite just better? What slot would it take because it doesn't draw you cards and Saheeli combo relies heavily on draw.
We will see... don't get me wrong, I think it's a great beatstick, but with today's standard you can't just be great, you have to be the best of the best to fit in... or at least stop the combo from going off.
Insanely popular? Ok...
I didn't really like sideways cards then either. This iteration is obnoxious because at least then both sides were the same direction. Having the text for the second part separated without art would have been my preference.
Mostly your post just complains that I don't like it. I gave my reasons, you're just giving attitude.
As for who they give the spoilers to? Let them reward the people who throw adulation their way, whatever. They make it to Salvation and mythicspoiler where I consume them so what... ever.
What is obnoxious is that marketing thinks they're doing ANYTHING AT ALL. They get mad their PLAN is foiled when there's an unauthorized leak. BooHoo. Their plan is usually just weak and if it's story related I really don't care. They are not story tellers, I pay ZERO attention to their banal plots. I want to know what the next Standard format is going to be warped by (though lately I'm caring less and less about they're broken Standard).
Make good cards. Balance the game. Release spoilers 3-4 weeks ahead in a trickle so I can consume them and we can yell at each other about them.
Do not assume marketing is earning their keep. They are not.
The core dump one week out, meh... I thought it was crappy when we had to pick our color or guild. Picking based on zero info at signup was total crap.
Now that they've removed that from the equation, meh... frankly an hour is long enough to absorb the common/uncommon trash dump after we've seen all the mechanics and the good cards.