Chalice on 1 is a pain for any storm deck, but if I'm expecting a lot of it I'd rather be driving TES than ANT for that event.
Yes and no. Kinda depends on whether you're betting on winning the die-roll. TES dies much harder to resolved chalice on 1, ANT is better able to play through it thanks to Cabal Ritual. Having said that, neither deck is particularly keen to see a chalice turn up
If a delver heavy meta, I'd always have empty the warrens as at least a 1-of. Turn 1/2 empty will get you a win as often as not, and will come up more often than you'd think. It's also nice as you only really need 8-10 goblins for it to be very effective. Ad nauseam is, I believe, worth leaving in vs BUG delver, but something i'd take out vs the other two. Against most delver decks, you can board fairly lightly, although I'd consider a second PiF, either main or at least in the board. It does wonders against high levels of countermagic. Ditch petition if you have to play against too many blue decks, it's better in a goldfish type meta. Confidant is awful, it's trying to take the place of a cantrip but lacks selection, and is too slow. Against burn, you only really want some minimal removal, whatever you can fit in by dropping Ad Nauseam and all Duress, unless you have extra tendrils. You keep therapy for this matchup, IMO. Snagging Eidolon is great. A couple of decays and a couple of echoing truths can fill the rest. Although don't ever hesitate to two-for-one them with therapy if you get a chance. And don't stress tin-fins. There will always be some matchups you'll struggle wtih (belcher will fall in this category as well). Especially if you can't afford flusters. Just remember that you're more resilient, so in longer tournaments, if you know what you're doing, you'll likely pull ahead over time.
Tbh, I liked your version.
Two three changes I'd change impact tremors for 2 Purphoros and the last Thalia's Lieutenant for explosive start to fight unfair decks and/or midrange decks. Impact tremors is bad in many cases
I've actually found the opposite. Tremors has been great for me, purphoros was awful. Tremnors comes down early and gets in for more damage as a result. Can also be used in multiple
New Thalia asymmetrically taxes both creatures and mana, not just creatures, and comes on a body that can compete in creature combat, as well as using up a completely different spot in the curve. Imposing Sovereign taxes creatures only, can't compete in combat, and fights with other 2-drops I'm currently using such as Thalia's lieutenant, impact tremors and even just champion plus norin. I can't see trialing him instead.
As for spirit bonds, it could make a good late-game mana-sink, but I think if you're going that way, you're probably better off trying to use spirit bonds as a natural sink, leaving cryptolith rite and mirror entity at home, and then doubling down on other etb effects like suture priest
Still haven't tested extensively. I haven't been playing huge amounts of modern lately. Which means I also haven't tried bumping legion loyalist for a third Thalia or fourth lieutenant. So take this with a grain of salt. If she hits play, she helps you get in a little more aggressively. She restricts access to both mana and beaters, the best part is she can help you come back from when you're behind. Which is kind of necessary, as this is definitely not the fastest/best deck in the format. She won't take over the game single-handedly, but she does mean you have an opportunity to catch up. If you're already ahead, you'll likely stay ahead. As mentioned, she also helps with my current sideboard strategy (I run suppression field, ghostly prison, blood moon, basically lots of effects designed to seriously hamper my opponent while not damaging my plan too much. Also the reason I don't run Thalia 1.0, as she restricts my mana for some relevant spells).
Having said all this, Norin-based lists are still a bit too varied to give an unqualified recommendation on. I do suggest everyone try her, as said, she does good work. But not all will be able to justify or capitalise on what she can bring
I don't think the phrase glass cannon can accurately describe a deck that can go off through multiple pieces of disruption. One of the reasons to play this deck is its resilience.
Hi, I started myself playing ANT after playing Reanimator (still have it). All tho I liked Reanimator alot, there was just some much hate against it in my meta so even I made best of my effort to win it wasn't enaught.
This seems pretty solid list from my eye's but is there something you would change and why?
Regards, Zepu
Lots. Typical lists only run 2-3 basics (1 swamp, 1-2 islands), 3 if they have a green dual in the sideboard, 2 if not. I'd suggest trying both, but I currently value the extra sideboard space more than an extra island. This list appears to have dropped fetches for extra basics. I can't think why, as the shuffle function is important. The Fetch split is weird as well.If you're running Bayou, your fetch base should be 4 misty rainforest/4 polluted delta. If you don't, all blue fetches is fine
I'm personally liking second PiF over Dark petition at the moment. Easier to find your combo, and having anything interfere with petition hurts a lot. With petition, even a daze can be back-breaking. Having said that, depending on your meta, this can vary. I'd try both.
The sideboard is also weird. 3 Xantid Swarm seems like way too many. Especially as they're not great to begin with. They seem good in theory, in reality they really function as you want them to. If you must try them, knock them down to 2 at most. Make room for something useful. This person also seems to have spread their D&T hate weirdly across massacre and dread of night. I'd suggest this needs fixing. Exactly how will depend on your local meta. I'd also be finding room for the 4th decay. You'll feel it more than you may think. Finally, I prefer echoing truth over chain of vapor. It's just a bit broader in application, and can also remove things like chalice. I'd try both though, they have different strengths. Chain is much easier to cast in a combo turn
Got to try out new Thalia maindeck over the weekend. So far feels like she deserves the slots. Currently she's a two-of, I'm wondering about bumping my one-of Legion loyalist for a third though. She's done good work in slowing your opponent down and getting some extra creature damage through, which I feel the deck needs, as currently it can be a little slow. She also plays well into my current sideboard plan, which often involves me going more prison.
Has anyone tried out the new Thalia in this deck? I'm considering giving her a shot as a two-of, she's human, slows the opponent down and helps out my sideboard plan (kind of a prison strat)
By analyzing, I was thinking that a norin sisters at least may have a build with an anthemeffect to make the job done. So here's the list I purpose:
=
Notes:
Mikaeus can be fetched by ranger;
Bolt works better than path with Magus which can be helped by Thalia's Lieutenant;
Magus of the Moon is a nice human tool to shut some decks, even boltable;
There's no GY hate because I don't see GY strategies that Magus, Thalia, Spellsite or even Worship can't deal with, but the list may (and please do) be criticized
Have you tested this yet? If so, how was the performance? I'm feeling like Magus of the Moon is a poor comparison to blood moon, due to ease of removal, and I don't think the synergy it brings is enough to offset this weakness. It makes a poor beater and there are enough human triggers with Norin. I'm also curious about Mikaeus. It looks slow, but if it's actually effective, if could be very useful. (Also, for your comment re: Rest in Peace, I personally like it, as it can help with goyf or snapcaster, as well as dealing with anyone else who tries to abuse the graveyard. This is all meta and taste dependent, though, and I've on occasions followed your example and run none myself. It's just I generally feel better with them in)
Not sure about militia captain. I tend to think you're probably already ahead on the board before this becomes good. It's worth a look, for sure, but I think will require more setup than it might appear.
I'd consider Westvale Abbey as a singleton. And probably will. This is never something I'd be aiming to actually push for, it's clunky, it can be difficult to hit 6 lands unless I'm flooding (in which case I probably won't ever get to use it), and I like mentor better as a mana sink. However, if the stars lined up right, which they probably will occasionally, this could help close out a stagnant game ++edit++ plus it's cool. That's enough reason for me
So, Uh, how are we feeling about Thalia's Lieutenant? It seems if we go with the full human strategy then this is is super sweet. Beefing up the soul sisters so they can't just get pinged by gut shots, electrolize, electrickery, what have you. On top of that it can be Champions 5-8 instead of the pridemates, which seems pretty sweet.
Will definitely be trialing this in place of the pridemates. obviously she'll never reach the same size as a pridemate, but benefits from not needing a sister on the board to become effective. Should hopefully mean slightly fewer dud hands, as well.
@Fangzie: I would love to play both the tremors plan and the creatures one, but it feels to me like they are not so much compatible with each other. What do you cut to fit everything? tremors are awesome with lightning berserk and the plan can be sustained with suture priest too. I really don't know which way is the better.
I'm still running a plain RW list, so there's plenty of room in the mainboard. I'm also not using Suture priest (not convinced he does enough work) or Auriok Champion (seems too expensive if I'm not running equipment)
Any idea on the list with tremors? I've been trying to cut champions and pridemates, but I feel the only thing that can handle the board is chamber. Maybe something in the middle with chambers and one of those I just mentioned?
I'm actually using all of these. 4 impact tremors, 4 champions, 3 pridemates and 4 genesis chambers. I like having the creature threats, as they can get out of hand fairly quickly and provide pressure even when you don't have tremors
Yes and no. Kinda depends on whether you're betting on winning the die-roll. TES dies much harder to resolved chalice on 1, ANT is better able to play through it thanks to Cabal Ritual. Having said that, neither deck is particularly keen to see a chalice turn up
I've actually found the opposite. Tremors has been great for me, purphoros was awful. Tremnors comes down early and gets in for more damage as a result. Can also be used in multiple
As for spirit bonds, it could make a good late-game mana-sink, but I think if you're going that way, you're probably better off trying to use spirit bonds as a natural sink, leaving cryptolith rite and mirror entity at home, and then doubling down on other etb effects like suture priest
Having said all this, Norin-based lists are still a bit too varied to give an unqualified recommendation on. I do suggest everyone try her, as said, she does good work. But not all will be able to justify or capitalise on what she can bring
Also, if you're of the opinion that Jitte is relevant, then you might want to include the even more scary batterskull
Lots. Typical lists only run 2-3 basics (1 swamp, 1-2 islands), 3 if they have a green dual in the sideboard, 2 if not. I'd suggest trying both, but I currently value the extra sideboard space more than an extra island. This list appears to have dropped fetches for extra basics. I can't think why, as the shuffle function is important. The Fetch split is weird as well.If you're running Bayou, your fetch base should be 4 misty rainforest/4 polluted delta. If you don't, all blue fetches is fine
I'm personally liking second PiF over Dark petition at the moment. Easier to find your combo, and having anything interfere with petition hurts a lot. With petition, even a daze can be back-breaking. Having said that, depending on your meta, this can vary. I'd try both.
The sideboard is also weird. 3 Xantid Swarm seems like way too many. Especially as they're not great to begin with. They seem good in theory, in reality they really function as you want them to. If you must try them, knock them down to 2 at most. Make room for something useful. This person also seems to have spread their D&T hate weirdly across massacre and dread of night. I'd suggest this needs fixing. Exactly how will depend on your local meta. I'd also be finding room for the 4th decay. You'll feel it more than you may think. Finally, I prefer echoing truth over chain of vapor. It's just a bit broader in application, and can also remove things like chalice. I'd try both though, they have different strengths. Chain is much easier to cast in a combo turn
Have you tested this yet? If so, how was the performance? I'm feeling like Magus of the Moon is a poor comparison to blood moon, due to ease of removal, and I don't think the synergy it brings is enough to offset this weakness. It makes a poor beater and there are enough human triggers with Norin. I'm also curious about Mikaeus. It looks slow, but if it's actually effective, if could be very useful. (Also, for your comment re: Rest in Peace, I personally like it, as it can help with goyf or snapcaster, as well as dealing with anyone else who tries to abuse the graveyard. This is all meta and taste dependent, though, and I've on occasions followed your example and run none myself. It's just I generally feel better with them in)
I'd consider Westvale Abbey as a singleton. And probably will. This is never something I'd be aiming to actually push for, it's clunky, it can be difficult to hit 6 lands unless I'm flooding (in which case I probably won't ever get to use it), and I like mentor better as a mana sink. However, if the stars lined up right, which they probably will occasionally, this could help close out a stagnant game ++edit++ plus it's cool. That's enough reason for me
Will definitely be trialing this in place of the pridemates. obviously she'll never reach the same size as a pridemate, but benefits from not needing a sister on the board to become effective. Should hopefully mean slightly fewer dud hands, as well.
I'm still running a plain RW list, so there's plenty of room in the mainboard. I'm also not using Suture priest (not convinced he does enough work) or Auriok Champion (seems too expensive if I'm not running equipment)
I'm actually using all of these. 4 impact tremors, 4 champions, 3 pridemates and 4 genesis chambers. I like having the creature threats, as they can get out of hand fairly quickly and provide pressure even when you don't have tremors