I've been enjoYing the addition of evolution. Especially in matchups like tron, affinity and infect where there is little instant removal.
For tron in makes fetching a t2 fulminator possible. A t2 fetch melira for infect. Or kataki fetch, a skite fetch against boggles, etc!
Not that we couldn't do that with chord, but the cost reduction makes up for the sorcery speed imo.
Against jund I take out a few chords, a wall, the redcap, and odd silver bullets to make room for 2 paths, pharika, and abrupt decay (finally caved and got a copy).
In my meta the jund players seem to like bolt dorks so I leave my bids in to eat the early removal. So move to out-value then with company, voice, and witness.
I think I might try evolution as a 2 of to replace 2 chords. The turn 2 play off a dork into bullet/finks is mad fun to think about. Also, most opponents will kill the dork before your turn, so disruption shouldn't be to much of an issue. Most people are waiting for the turn 3 company value.
Last night's games did not go well for me or my deck. So my sideboard choices were really untested.
G1 was the mirror, so beast was a 3 drop path. So no need for it. The only time I wanted a pulse was when my opponent had 3 finks out, but by then it was gg.
G2 was mill...I lost the first and my side tech was putting all 15 cards into main. Worked like a charm.
G3 was tron. I did bring the beast for this match, as it can hit any of their lands if I get their early or threats if it's later. But I didn't see either of them on the second game :/ his ramp was just too good.
Yeah I figured in the corner cases of multiples or tokens.
In my meta I rarely face a deck that puts out multiples of permanents that I need to hit.
And for tokens the pontiff has been an all star for me. I've been thinking about putting him main board simply for all the x/1.
As for dispel if they use it on beast they won't have it for company or chord.
But I hear your points, and take them into concideration at the end of the night. When I look at beast within and go "now, how much did I want /need you to be a pulse?"
So quick question. I know most abzan decks run a singleton of maelstrom pulse for removal. But could Beast Within be a good substitute? Easier casting cost and instant speed has its bonuses over maelstrom.
Thought the 3/3 beast can be an issue, it can work as a responce to opponent trying to exile one of our combo creatures (path, anger) and could give us a beast in trade.
I believe I'll pick up a copy and test it tonight and my lgs.
G2 we pull out the CoCos, the Chords, 2 of the Seers, 1 Melira, 2 Birds, the Wall, and Spike Feeder and bring in our entire SB. All of a sudden, we are a wilted abzan deck with no intention of comboing off. Should you lose G2, you can either swap back to a combo plan or stick with the beats depending on what you felt was working better. Thoughts?
I'm worried that since you are planing to side in 8 or so cards every match you are making you main board terribly fragile. I mean I haven't tested it out, but I have to ask how well your companies are pulling and how reliant your combo is game one.
I fear the sideboard is a weak against say a deck were we only need a good silver bullet. Or a deck where we need 2-1 's.
I've thought of modal decks before, but I keep coming back to the fact it seems very fragile to deck plans were neither paths is useful. I can't name specifics, but it might be a useful surprise in a small meta where everybody goes "abzan comp is a combo only deck"
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
On a similar note, did Jace help destroy two of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse, and then immediately grab a warm coat and planeswalk away from his new buddies to go clue hunting like a day later?
Basically.
The Gatewatch took down Ulamog and Kozilek, Ugin showed up called them stupid, and told Jace to go find Sorin.
To find sorin...
So sorin could tell him where nahiri was...
So they could lure emrakul into another trap...
...which is why I hate the SOI story so far.
Ugin: go on this journey to save the suniverse!
Jace: well how convinent would it be if all the pieces are in the same place?
Ugin: im talking about two planeswalkers and a world eating monster...so extremely unlikely.
WotC: about that...
Not really, though as a rule I point out to my opponents at my LGS they don't have to concede to infinite life.
Which is good to remember for us, infinite life is just a deterrent rather than a win con. I've had a few matches against jund or others were they go 'ok' and proceed to draw-go hoping to mill me out.
That being said I run angelfeeder main so dropping redcap for hate has yet to ever be a problem for me.
Decks I've been running problems with are storm, ad nauseum, and of couse tron
Scooze gets snapcaster targets which is very relevant. Against grixis for example, if you manage to have a large ooze out with a spellskite in play and both are more or less on topdeck mode then it is extremely hard for them to muster a comeback.
Yeah, I know... but sometimes I have some problems to have the mana online to stop the snapcaster or it simply dies to bolt first. So maybe Im gonna try 1 AnaFenza MB and 1 Scooze SB and see if it is better.
I keep scooze main and anafore in SB. Not to be blasphemous but I've found anafore to be a good sub for linvala for the mirror, or juse natural hate against dredge/living end. Also she helps a persisted finks get back to normal. Otherwise I much rather have scooze. It may eat a bolt, bUT that's one less bolt they have for our combo and scooze can eat noncreatures.
" There is just no place for it in the meta,"
Maybe not in YOUR meta, but for some of us our local metas aren't choked with tron,jund, nahiri...abzan won a GP, what? 3 weeks ago?, against a field of jund players with Kalitas, and i think that player beat out tron in the final match
" The printing of Kalitas puts this deck to bed forever unless its banned... kalitas just does it all. If it resolves and you dont have path or draw it within two turns you are dead."
That seems like a horrible argument. Like saying Burn is just a mediocre deck bc wizards printed stuff like Leyline of Sanctity or Kor Firewalker. we have work-arounds, we have removal. Does Kalitas put a giant wrench in our plan? yes, but its a 2-of 4 drop. i dont want to see it, just like Leyline of the void or cage. but a good pilot can navigate and side in for such hate.
"The back-up gavony township plan does nothing as it is too mana-intense and you can bet you bottom dollar more hate will show up before then."
i will just disagree to this. ive won enough games thanks to a 1/2 bird. is it slow, yes, but its suppose to be the backup plan or the out when, shocker, our opponent has GY hate.
"Tbh unbanning pod does nothing at all at this point."
i seriously do not understand your logic in this statement. Pod is a chord on a artifact, it can get me a fiend hunter to take out the kalitas. problem solved
"The designers are all about new and crazy abilities and multiple abilities each card. I get the feeling that knowing that they dropped modern from the pro tour to grant additional design space, they probably aren't considering the repercussions of a lot of their creations in modern."
this is a bit of a grey area. i highly doubt Wizards is going to start printing absurdly powerful cards just because their focus will be standard. if they really didn't care then they could just remove the banned list altogether. but they don't because they do. They removed modern from the pro-tour because they want to spotlight new cards and sets. Modern is still going to be considered in design because modern is still a format a huge portion of players want and play.
"I am definitely not disrepecting anyone, I'm just saying I dont think it will be able to put up the same results in modern anymore unless something changes. I think it may be tier two, but I just dont see it doing that well. I have run archangel backup plan, its decent but It doesnt really make the deck more durable"
now THIS is an arguable topic. but as others have pointed out, as a teir 1 deck most players know how our deck runs and have hate to bring in, just like we have a toolbox of hate to bring in as well. Modern has been a very complicated game of rock-paper-scissors of different deck styles. Kalitas brings jund and other black decks a wonderful answer against us. But i will continue on with abzan. they may not throw us a bone anytime soon, at least not a single creature that reads "abzan wins", but they might give us a angelfeeder-esk combo to sneak in our list.
speaking of which how can you seriously say 2 kalitas in a jund deck makes us auto loose but a 2-card combo that doesn't use the GY to win doesn't really make our deck more durable? when angel comes out against jund they have to have removal in hand or the table is turned. and by the time we can bring in a 5drop angel they have most likely used all their removal on finks and sisters.
i didn't mean to lecture, but for some reason your blanket comments about this build leave me wondering if you really liked playing this deck or are just looking for a reason to give up on it.
You can do the hunter trick with tide, tide just is an unrestricted removal. Tide can also be a removal eater if u take something your opponent needs. Both lines of play are available to us.
Ave only effect opponents. Its good in the mirror, slows tron if u can get it out early. Also can ax the gifts decks, and almost kills litterally anything that searches.
It has flash so u can leave mana up to chord company or play it. It get hit by company, perfectly good hate card
With so many white/green costs I would recommend running a temple or two instead of fetch 9 and 10.
Also, just a suggestion bc I am running budget as well. With only shrine and tomb as your shocks I think 4 Bloodstain would be better than 4 foothills, maybe a 2-2 split? Because if u run into a long game and fetch all 4 green sources and pull a foothill it's a dead draw.
Hey guys i've been having some trouble against Abzan liege and Eldrazi&taxes , how do you approach those matchups ? Any sideboard/play advice ?
Thanks
I beat an experienced and novice eldrazi tax player last week with relative ease...just keep hands with tons of creatures and go wide. Gavony will be your friend. Some of the worst creatures they have are arbiter and thought-knot. With an Ana on the field their displacer and flicker wisp become a bit moot.
SB I tend to take out the chords as the arbiter makes it less appealing. I main angelfeeder so a rip or cage or relic won't hurt me too bad. But the pridemage exalted will help bashing faces in as well as remove a vial or cage.
Depending on sideboard I would bring in tidehallows/sin collects. Recsage for more artifact hate. Also any creature with a big butt like eidolon or loxodon.
They will have or side in reality smasher so be ready for that turn 3-5. Rips and cages will come in and if u have removal you want to take out the displacer or thought before they strip your hand.
Also birds, gavony, and Ana will be your very best friends
I still have yet to really want pulse or decay...but it's probably my meta.
I've been on a budget build with only 1 heirarch, skite, and voice. I haven't had too many situations where I was dying for more of them. I've actually been enjoying an abolisher over voice for a control(ish) creature. Voice is a solid card, but if I really don't want my opponent scoozing, countering, of burning my combo when I go off I put abolisher in.
I've also had great play value out of angelfeeder. So I've been running singles in my main, it's great to have a bit in combo that ignores the grave and most hate.
For me, mmasi, Thrun is a solid creature, but he just doesn't bring anything I want from the side. Yes he regeneates, can be countered, and has hexproof, all good things, but I never find myself wanting/needing a 4 drop /2 activation regenerate 4/4 creature. You mark him great against wipes, and he is...partially. but against tron he is not bringing a solid clock or hate, nor against burn or jund. He doesn't aid/fuel/protect the combo, which is the heart of the deck. So for me he doesn't shine bright enough to fit in the 75.
As for pulse, it's up to the player, again I haven't had a need/desire for pulse or decay. I play angel/feeder to get around most hate player bring in. The one thing pulse is good at removing? Tokens...and I have pontiff for tokens. It is a removal, a strong removal. But after paths, decays, the sage/mage I already board, do I really want to clog another removal? I don't.
For tron in makes fetching a t2 fulminator possible. A t2 fetch melira for infect. Or kataki fetch, a skite fetch against boggles, etc!
Not that we couldn't do that with chord, but the cost reduction makes up for the sorcery speed imo.
Against jund I take out a few chords, a wall, the redcap, and odd silver bullets to make room for 2 paths, pharika, and abrupt decay (finally caved and got a copy).
In my meta the jund players seem to like bolt dorks so I leave my bids in to eat the early removal. So move to out-value then with company, voice, and witness.
Anyway, time to test!
G1 was the mirror, so beast was a 3 drop path. So no need for it. The only time I wanted a pulse was when my opponent had 3 finks out, but by then it was gg.
G2 was mill...I lost the first and my side tech was putting all 15 cards into main. Worked like a charm.
G3 was tron. I did bring the beast for this match, as it can hit any of their lands if I get their early or threats if it's later. But I didn't see either of them on the second game :/ his ramp was just too good.
Try again friday
In my meta I rarely face a deck that puts out multiples of permanents that I need to hit.
And for tokens the pontiff has been an all star for me. I've been thinking about putting him main board simply for all the x/1.
As for dispel if they use it on beast they won't have it for company or chord.
But I hear your points, and take them into concideration at the end of the night. When I look at beast within and go "now, how much did I want /need you to be a pulse?"
Thought the 3/3 beast can be an issue, it can work as a responce to opponent trying to exile one of our combo creatures (path, anger) and could give us a beast in trade.
I believe I'll pick up a copy and test it tonight and my lgs.
I'm worried that since you are planing to side in 8 or so cards every match you are making you main board terribly fragile. I mean I haven't tested it out, but I have to ask how well your companies are pulling and how reliant your combo is game one.
I fear the sideboard is a weak against say a deck were we only need a good silver bullet. Or a deck where we need 2-1 's.
I've thought of modal decks before, but I keep coming back to the fact it seems very fragile to deck plans were neither paths is useful. I can't name specifics, but it might be a useful surprise in a small meta where everybody goes "abzan comp is a combo only deck"
To find sorin...
So sorin could tell him where nahiri was...
So they could lure emrakul into another trap...
...which is why I hate the SOI story so far.
Ugin: go on this journey to save the suniverse!
Jace: well how convinent would it be if all the pieces are in the same place?
Ugin: im talking about two planeswalkers and a world eating monster...so extremely unlikely.
WotC: about that...
Which is good to remember for us, infinite life is just a deterrent rather than a win con. I've had a few matches against jund or others were they go 'ok' and proceed to draw-go hoping to mill me out.
That being said I run angelfeeder main so dropping redcap for hate has yet to ever be a problem for me.
Decks I've been running problems with are storm, ad nauseum, and of couse tron
I keep scooze main and anafore in SB. Not to be blasphemous but I've found anafore to be a good sub for linvala for the mirror, or juse natural hate against dredge/living end. Also she helps a persisted finks get back to normal. Otherwise I much rather have scooze. It may eat a bolt, bUT that's one less bolt they have for our combo and scooze can eat noncreatures.
Maybe not in YOUR meta, but for some of us our local metas aren't choked with tron,jund, nahiri...abzan won a GP, what? 3 weeks ago?, against a field of jund players with Kalitas, and i think that player beat out tron in the final match
" The printing of Kalitas puts this deck to bed forever unless its banned... kalitas just does it all. If it resolves and you dont have path or draw it within two turns you are dead."
That seems like a horrible argument. Like saying Burn is just a mediocre deck bc wizards printed stuff like Leyline of Sanctity or Kor Firewalker. we have work-arounds, we have removal. Does Kalitas put a giant wrench in our plan? yes, but its a 2-of 4 drop. i dont want to see it, just like Leyline of the void or cage. but a good pilot can navigate and side in for such hate.
"The back-up gavony township plan does nothing as it is too mana-intense and you can bet you bottom dollar more hate will show up before then."
i will just disagree to this. ive won enough games thanks to a 1/2 bird. is it slow, yes, but its suppose to be the backup plan or the out when, shocker, our opponent has GY hate.
"Tbh unbanning pod does nothing at all at this point."
i seriously do not understand your logic in this statement. Pod is a chord on a artifact, it can get me a fiend hunter to take out the kalitas. problem solved
"The designers are all about new and crazy abilities and multiple abilities each card. I get the feeling that knowing that they dropped modern from the pro tour to grant additional design space, they probably aren't considering the repercussions of a lot of their creations in modern."
this is a bit of a grey area. i highly doubt Wizards is going to start printing absurdly powerful cards just because their focus will be standard. if they really didn't care then they could just remove the banned list altogether. but they don't because they do. They removed modern from the pro-tour because they want to spotlight new cards and sets. Modern is still going to be considered in design because modern is still a format a huge portion of players want and play.
"I am definitely not disrepecting anyone, I'm just saying I dont think it will be able to put up the same results in modern anymore unless something changes. I think it may be tier two, but I just dont see it doing that well. I have run archangel backup plan, its decent but It doesnt really make the deck more durable"
now THIS is an arguable topic. but as others have pointed out, as a teir 1 deck most players know how our deck runs and have hate to bring in, just like we have a toolbox of hate to bring in as well. Modern has been a very complicated game of rock-paper-scissors of different deck styles. Kalitas brings jund and other black decks a wonderful answer against us. But i will continue on with abzan. they may not throw us a bone anytime soon, at least not a single creature that reads "abzan wins", but they might give us a angelfeeder-esk combo to sneak in our list.
speaking of which how can you seriously say 2 kalitas in a jund deck makes us auto loose but a 2-card combo that doesn't use the GY to win doesn't really make our deck more durable? when angel comes out against jund they have to have removal in hand or the table is turned. and by the time we can bring in a 5drop angel they have most likely used all their removal on finks and sisters.
i didn't mean to lecture, but for some reason your blanket comments about this build leave me wondering if you really liked playing this deck or are just looking for a reason to give up on it.
anyway, onto another topic.
Ave only effect opponents. Its good in the mirror, slows tron if u can get it out early. Also can ax the gifts decks, and almost kills litterally anything that searches.
It has flash so u can leave mana up to chord company or play it. It get hit by company, perfectly good hate card
Also, just a suggestion bc I am running budget as well. With only shrine and tomb as your shocks I think 4 Bloodstain would be better than 4 foothills, maybe a 2-2 split? Because if u run into a long game and fetch all 4 green sources and pull a foothill it's a dead draw.
I beat an experienced and novice eldrazi tax player last week with relative ease...just keep hands with tons of creatures and go wide. Gavony will be your friend. Some of the worst creatures they have are arbiter and thought-knot. With an Ana on the field their displacer and flicker wisp become a bit moot.
SB I tend to take out the chords as the arbiter makes it less appealing. I main angelfeeder so a rip or cage or relic won't hurt me too bad. But the pridemage exalted will help bashing faces in as well as remove a vial or cage.
Depending on sideboard I would bring in tidehallows/sin collects. Recsage for more artifact hate. Also any creature with a big butt like eidolon or loxodon.
They will have or side in reality smasher so be ready for that turn 3-5. Rips and cages will come in and if u have removal you want to take out the displacer or thought before they strip your hand.
Also birds, gavony, and Ana will be your very best friends
I've been on a budget build with only 1 heirarch, skite, and voice. I haven't had too many situations where I was dying for more of them. I've actually been enjoying an abolisher over voice for a control(ish) creature. Voice is a solid card, but if I really don't want my opponent scoozing, countering, of burning my combo when I go off I put abolisher in.
I've also had great play value out of angelfeeder. So I've been running singles in my main, it's great to have a bit in combo that ignores the grave and most hate.
As for pulse, it's up to the player, again I haven't had a need/desire for pulse or decay. I play angel/feeder to get around most hate player bring in. The one thing pulse is good at removing? Tokens...and I have pontiff for tokens. It is a removal, a strong removal. But after paths, decays, the sage/mage I already board, do I really want to clog another removal? I don't.