MTG Salvation

For years now, people keep bringing up the black splash in Legacy Burn. I won't say that it's bad. But it's not necessary. And it's not optimal. And frankly, since Eidolon of the Great Revel became the new all star of Burn there's just not room for it. Don't forget that Eidolon is never by itself in the SCG lists. It is always paired with some combination of Searing Blaze and Searing Blood. People I talk to so easily skip over those cards in the list and just fixate on Eidolon. But Blaze and Blood let you break the symmetry of Eidolon squarely in your favor. By the time you add in Eidolon and some combination of Blaze and Blood you no longer really have room for a maindeck black splash. And don't forget that you might want 1-2 Sulfuric Vortex main depending on the metagame you expect.

I think it's worth pointing out that these lists are also using maindeck Searing Blaze to bust the symmetry of Eidolon. Clearing the way and allowing you to swing with the Eidolon's body.

Quote from SNight

Hi Guys!

Thanks for this post and for all your contribution!

I'm back on Magic, unfortunately only in MTGO since in Angola we don't have an active magic community, and trying to build some decks to have some fun, and then go for Daily and Premier!

In Legacy, and since i'm a player since 93/94, with some interruptions in the way, Aggro play is in my blood, so from Aggro to Burn...

Here is my Decklist that I have been put together for the past days:

Burn (Legacy) @ MTGOMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
18 Mountain 2 Barbarian Ring 4 Goblin Guide (*) 4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Chain Lightning 4 Fireblast 4 Lava Spike 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Price of Progress 4 Rift Bolt 4 Searing Blaze 4 Sulfuric Vortex (*)	4 Dragon's Claw 4 Red Elemental Blast 4 Pyrostatic Pillar 3 Smash to Smithereens

(*) - The cards that i miss to finish the deck!

Waiting for your feedback!

Cheers.

Grim Lavamancer and Barbarian Ring don't have the best synergy together.

Quote from michaelangelo

^ I know that Wotc are hesistant to make a powerful and cheap red creature due to how abusive it could be if made just slightly wrong, but I think a solid clause for a red hate bear could be made by adding - ~ card cannot be cast if you control any nonbasic lands '

Vexing Shusher didn't break the game in half, and it hoses control pretty good. I could see them making a decent red hate bear, and I would welcome that.

Given the enchantment theme of Theros block, it wouldn't be implausible to expect some sort of enchantment costing 3 or less that might be worth considering. Probably not an aura, as we don't swing with enough creatures. Ordeal of Purphoros isn't where we want to be. But it does show that WotC isn't afraid to give red some love in Theros block.

I've wondered if they wouldn't bring back Evoke in Theros block. I'd love a creature that could Evoke for a Bolt effect.

There really are no limits for a creative mind. Variations on Vexing Devil (opponent's choice effects), Flame Rift (symmetric damage), and Fireblast/Shard Volley (sacrificing your own resources for quick advantage) are possible too.

Heck, they could even do another Chained to the Rocks style effect in red. It could do direct damge EtB. Or be a more cost efficient version of Awaken the Ancient.

Quote from DrWorm

Illustrate me IMPRESSED! I love the posing and how it is looking.

Well, here's the finished product. Just in time for 50 years of Doctor Who.

It was fun to do, but sadly I don't know anyone interested in it. Oh well. Twas a nice pet project.

Quote from Buttface37

Does anyone still run the disciple of the vault / arcbound ravager combo?

Not really. Except in the fringe. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas just straight up outclassed and replaced the Discple/Ravager combo. Arcbound Ravager is still a strong, playable card by itself. And some decks still run it as a beatstick. But the Disciple/Ravager combo has been relegated to fringe play.

Quote from Jaydubs

lately I have been splashing red and have been testing a 1 off izzet charm...It's a careful study that kills deathrite and can be held back as a counter...

I maindeck 2 Dimir Charm. Accomplishes those things without the splash. The counter aspect is much weaker, but I'll settle for a hard counter for Natural Order and Show and Tell when attached to the other effects.

Grim Lavamancer builds also allow you to interact with the opponent's board state more without running out of gas yourself. You can continue to burn straight to the opponent's face and use Lavamancer to kill Delver of Secrets. It also gives you a very good way to kill Thalia, Guardian of Thraben without tapping out to aim a Lightning Bolt at her (thus losing a card and a turn).

In short, Lavamancer builds tend to sacrifice about a turn of pure speed goldfish speed and a few life points to fetchlands for an amazingly favorable matchup against creature decks, more interactivity, less chance of running out of gas, and a maindeck answer to certain problematic cards for Burn (Thalia and Counterbalance).

'Mancer-less builds prefer to go the route of more classic, traditional Burn lists and go for minimal interactivity and the speediest win possible.

I guess you're right Giga. There doesn't need to be danger for cuddles. But isn't it nice to have an excuse?

In all seriousness though, it is good to know that you're okay and out of immediate danger.

Also, congratulations to hopefulhawkeye.

Quote from Aquila Noctis

What would you remove for this 2 more creatures?
Did you mean -2 magma jet again, so no magma jet in the end?

Yes. Exactly that. Sorry if I was unclear.

Certainly.



I've made a complete 180 since I first started playing Burn. I began with a mana curve build, but the above is about as extreme a mana sink build as one could possibly make.

The virtues of such are that one gets to resolve spells in an orderly fashion, but it really has to be played correctly. I wouldn't trot out Grim Lavamancer on turn 1, for instance, unless I had nothing else to play. I'll even go to the dome with Lightning Bolt before I do that. Sometimes a Taiga will get Wastelanded, or a fetchland will get Stifled, but these plays aren't always as bad as they seem. When my Taiga gets Wastelanded, I lose a land, but so does my opponent. They sacrifice their development to attack mine: but if I had plentiful mana resources to begin with, this plays right into my hands. Stifle is a similar deal. If they've got one blue open, I fetch and they Stifle, the coast is clear to resolve something without fear of Spell Pierce. I find Stifle pretty easy to play around anyway.

Sideboarding is really fun with this configuration. The best thing that could possibly happen is getting paired against Omnitell. Congratulations, you now get to play RUG against them, with hard counters instead of taxing ones, and they aren't even aware of the transfiguration. It probably works on Sneaky Show too. They'll never resolve a SnT. Sneak Attack is considered a dangerous plan against us, as we can race it, so players gravitate away from that plan: and even if they don't, Sneak Attack often involves digging for a fatty with cantrips, which we deploy the full weight of the Blasts countering.

Or you can just play a Goblin Guide and spend the rest of the game countering everything the other player does. That's almost as fun as using the symmetrical properties of Dream Halls (always let that resolve) to throw more Blasts.

...I think I just like Blasting stuff too much for my own good, but it fits into the Mana Sink plan. Mana Curve builds should never play blasts IMHO.

I don't really get why people play Mana Curve builds, to be honest, despite gravitating towards that myself. A more experienced player, and Burn pilot, once revealed to me the fact that Burn's plan against a combo deck never, ever involves racing. We're always the control deck in those matchups. That, and no other reason, is why stuff like Grim Lavamancer is a good card in the deck. It's slow. It's inefficient. That doesn't matter because we're not really racing combo, and don't need the speed against anything else.

...

I can't make too many claims as to how good it is against an entire field, but I will put the matchups I've tested in order, with notes.

• Jund: the record is like 10-1
• Omnitell: after sideboarding, it doesn't get to resolve anything important
• Esperblade: sometimes they can protect Batterskull, usually not
• Affinity: much to my surprise, the deck does very well against them
• Maverick: more lifegain than Blade
• Cloudpost MUD: Chalice, Glimmerpost, and Wurmcoil are a serious beating. From here down, the matchups are unfavorable.
• Storm: it's too fast
• Miracles: impossible, the variant tested was Energy Field

The other decks I can't

Exactly, that's the virtue of playing a metric ton of Blasts. They suddenly become reliable, and key spells can be defended: especially when they only cost 2 mana in the first place. In certain matchups, the sideboard is very nearly transformative. Against Omnitell, for instance, the game plan is to land a one-mana threat and untap with a grip full of blasts, keeping that mana up for the entire game, sinking only the excess into burn spells. It's more like playing RUG than the usual Burn list.

The only trouble is that sometimes I want my Destructive Revelry against a deck that has a lot of counters to protect it, but I don't feel comfortable reducing my threat density to the degree required to side in all the Blasts. WUR, in particular, exhibits this feature. One can easily draw a grip of Blasts and die helplessly to a Stoneforge Mystic.

...

I have tested with 1 Taiga, and it's fine. Countertop rarely plays Wasteland, and if they do, it's a 1-of. I only use 2 Taigas now because I had some extra store credit, figured another one wouldn't be bad to own, and decided to play with it just in case. I don't think it's actually necessary to have at all.

Quote from Soldier

Yes Searing Blaze is an instant but landfall happens only on your turn (therefore it doesnt make the card an instant)

Then again, Fetchlands. They can be played everywhere, and Budget is irrelevant.

I think having to kill the creature is the deal breaker. Even if you don't run Fetches, having a land to play is a common problem with the deck, and always dealing damage is fairly important.

Just comparing the bare minimum of each, Searing Blaze will always deal damage at least one damage to your opponent, while Searing Blood does nothing. Against something like Death and Taxes, the distinction is pretty big.

Sulfuric Vortex is not an optional card, I think. It's slow, but it's one of the deck's best weapons against fair decks, and gets an honorable mention against Show and Tell combo. SnT --> Griselbrand is a lot worse when can get the Vortex in for free. I'll take that race any day.

I wouldn't bother with Runeflare Trap, It is, after all, a trap. Says so right on the card. Mindbreak Trap will serve you better, but I'd just put more Blasts in the slot. In my opinion, one needs to have a lot of Blasts before they become really good. It clutters up the sideboard quite a bit, however, and these cards don't even come in against every blue deck.

I bring them in against:
Omnitell, Show and Tell
Counterbalance decks
High Tide (don't laugh, someone actually brought this a few weeks ago)

...siding out the symmetrical Flame Rift and the worse one-shot spells, like Lava Spike. The idea is to get a recursive source of damage on the table, then sit back with a grip 2-3 Blasts. Omnitell has a really hard time with this. I look at it this way: I'd need 2-3 special slots against SnT anyway, whether Ensnaring Bridge, Iona, Angel of Despair, or what have you. I had 3 blasts in my board.... why not just put the hate together?

...

In other news, has anyone been testing Destructive Revelry? It's been very good to me. Wasteland isn't actually all that threatening. I generally have a lot of control over when my Taiga enters the field, and I even have some control (Fireblast) over how it exits the field.

You get something far more dangerous: the craziness that comes with Tumblr (and lots of... "adult content"). It's funny §§

...sure, but when they've got a Batterskull on the field and a Force of Will in hand, would you rather have Shattering Spree or Smash to Smithereens? That's the situation I find myself in more often, opponents really banking on that lifegain to put them ahead + the Spree helplessly pulling the rug out from under them.

The premise of the deck is for counterspells to not matter much b/c all the spells do the same thing, consequently my opponents tend to have Force in hand all the time. I've tested Smash vs. Spree in the TrueBlade matchups, and it's not really close IMHO. Smash hasn't been getting there.

Oi. I just noticed that I had posted my old list. I no longer have chalice in the main.



The thing about Paradise Mantel that no one has pointed out yet is that you can tap a different creature with Drum each turn. You can cast a creature and immediately tap it for mana with drum, with Mantel you are stuck using the same creature over and over again. This has several draw-backs, from making board-wipe recovery harder to forcing you to choose between swinging and producing mana. I think Mantel is worse because it limits your options.

Quote from Wolf_Cub82

To find the right kind of interaction that is versatile enough and potent enough (at least for game 1) that a mere 3-4 mainboard slots is enough to provide the needed boost to tempo interaction.

Phyrexian revoker has been pretty good at this for me. It's rare to find a deck that doesn't use at least one permanent with an activated ability, even if it's just a sensei's divining top, and it also contributes to the aggro gameplan.

^ I know that Wotc are hesistant to make a powerful and cheap red creature due to how abusive it could be if made just slightly wrong, but I think a solid clause for a red hate bear could be made by adding - ~ card cannot be cast if you control any nonbasic lands '

Quote from Wolf_Cub82

I agree with pretty much everything Plaguefather just said, except the point about Darksteel Citadel. Citadel can be useful depending on your meta. Wasteland can occasionally keep us off of that last mana we need. It also gives us some resistance to Pernicious Deed alongside Gimmervoid and Ancient Tomb, allowing us to rebuild faster and avoid overextending if we're running a more tempo based build. I'd call it a meta choice if you choose to run it.

I agree with this, and would also like to disagree about running Inkmoth. There are two scenerios, first that you suddenly pump Inkmoth to 10 and win on one turn, or you deal less than 10 damage, but hit multiple times. The second case is very dangerous, as there are a wealth of ways to kill Inkmoth, and then the damage he does effectively doesn't count, because you can run only a few of them, making the odds of drawing a second pretty low. If you had run Blinkmoth instead, then the damage would count, and help you win.

Sure, you will be able to steal a handful of wins because you suddenly struck with a 10/1 inkmoth. But if you are in a position to connect with a 10/1 inkmoth, than you are very likely in a situation where dealing 10 regular damage would also win you the game in effect, if not outright. Sure, there are situations where it matters which turn you win on, but in most games it doesn't. Besides, if you connect with a 10/1 inkmoth, then they couldn't have had any form of removal for him. So unless they win on the very next turn, or the top card of their deck is a card that can kill blinkmoth, you would win the following turn when you swung with a 10/1 blinkmoth the second time.

Basically, it comes down to which of the two scenerios is more likely, and I'm reasonably certain the first is.

Also, infect is not an alternative win con any more than Signal Pest and Etched Champion are different wincons. You are still winning via combat damage form creatures attacking.

EDIT: I would no longer advocate for running a SFM deck. One of it's biggest boons was the ability to legend rule jitte. Now we can't do that. I'm running