For years now, people keep bringing up the black splash in Legacy Burn. I won't say that it's bad. But it's not necessary. And it's not optimal. And frankly, since Eidolon of the Great Revel became the new all star of Burn there's just not room for it. Don't forget that Eidolon is never by itself in the SCG lists. It is always paired with some combination of Searing Blaze and Searing Blood. People I talk to so easily skip over those cards in the list and just fixate on Eidolon. But Blaze and Blood let you break the symmetry of Eidolon squarely in your favor. By the time you add in Eidolon and some combination of Blaze and Blood you no longer really have room for a maindeck black splash. And don't forget that you might want 1-2 Sulfuric Vortex main depending on the metagame you expect.
I think Vexing Devil was written off by most competitive players after extensive testing in the last interation of Burn pre-Eidolon. But I would think that it would be better with Eidolon builds where a removal spell from the opponent will often cost them 2 life.
Sure. Why not? It's at least better than maindeck Price of Progress against Burn. And probably better than Force of Will too (we do not want to 2 for 1 threats in a deck with more internal redundancy than us). It's not exactly as optimal as I usually prefer my sideboarding to go. But any port in a storm, as they say.
My issue with simply relying on Bolt/Chain to deal with Eidolon is that is exactly what the Burn player wants me to do. That's playing his game the way he wants me to play it. We have significantly fewer Bolt effects than a true Burn deck. If I Shock myself just to kill a 2/2, the Burn player gains a significant advantage over me in terms of both damage and cards. Add in the fact that Burn is now also maindecking Searing Blaze, and it is unlikely that I will be able to make a flipped Delver last long, or gain any such advantage from forcing him deal with my threat in kind.
Destructive Revelry can also deal with a Burn player's Sulfuric Vortex. Another source of constant damage that is very likely to be more beneficial to them than to myself.
Also add in the likelihood that a Burn player may want to seriously considering mulliganing to a hand that includes Eidolon (because it is EXTREMELY effective against us), and Revelry is not nearly as risky of a "dead card in hand" as it may first appear to be.
With the perfect hand knowledge Probe gives you, you might be just as well or better off running Cabal Therapy. You could strip their hand of multiple copies of two different cards potentially, and still have attackers to swing with.
I like that it offers a more versatile sideboard option for especially diverse metas where things like the Leyline deck, Enchantress, Food Chain combo, or Aluren combo exist. Those are fringe reasons, though. The main reason I'm considering it is because it kills Eidolon of the Great Revel. And Burn can be a particularly tight match since it added that card.
What does everyone think of the list floating around that replaces 1 maindeck Volcanic Island with 1 main Tropical Island and replaces 2 Smelt in the sideboard with 2 Destructive Revelry?
It's an interesting option. If any deck in Legacy could use Stain the Mind it would be Affinity. I'm not sure that it's better than other sideboard options. But it's worth thinking about and testing. My concern is that while it seems best against combo decks, most of those have multiple ways to combo off. Sneak and Show has both Sneak Attack and Show and Tell. Reanimator can use Reanimate or Exhume. Charbelcher can use Goblin Charbelcher or Empty the Warrens.
I think I just prefer the Oblivion Rings in my sideboard that I can lay down off a Show and Tell or just side in against decks that I feel I need extra removal for.
I use one copy of Zealous Persecution in my sideboard instead of Whipflare. It's a little harder to cast but it hits True Name Nemesis as well as Elves and other swarm decks.
I run 3 Arcbound Ravagers to avoid flooding out with him, but I usually like having him on the field. He's particularly good if you're running 4 Mox Opal and are playing against any sort of removal spell or Batterskull.
I think it's worth pointing out that these lists are also using maindeck Searing Blaze to bust the symmetry of Eidolon. Clearing the way and allowing you to swing with the Eidolon's body.
I had a feeling when I saw Eidolon of the Great Revel spoiled that it would create its own build focussed on abusing it. I didn't have time to test and verify its power, since I've switched from Burn to UR Delver recently and have been testing that a lot. Very cool to see that prediction come true.
I wasn't sure if Pyrostatic Pillar would need to be main or just exta in the side and I see Jon Thiel opted for side. That feels right when I look at the list. I might opt for some number of maindeck Price of Progress over a few Flame Rift - to help break the symmetrical damage. But that can be meta dependant. And I've always prefered a split of Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre over Relic of Progenitus. But overall, I really like the build. I think it's the next smart evolution of Mono Red Burn
I'm pretty sure that a build centering on Eidolon of the Great Revel would pretty much require rethinking strategy and play out like a Suicide Red Deck. But the ability to hose other strategies might make it worth it.
I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.
Seems cool, but snapcaster and dack on the same deck? I mean, I already dont use snapcaster because I think he's too heavy for what he does and for my manabase, snapcaster AND dack would be really heavy, at least for more agressive UR decks
He would be cool if his ultimate was good for UR delver since the only permanent-targeting spells we use are lightnings, which kills most of legacy creatures
Strange. I play the aggressive Goblin Guide version of the deck myself. And I find Snapcaster to be exactly what the deck wants. Alongside Grim Lavamancer, he provides the extra reach that UR Delver needs to play out with the same aggression that its cousin Mono R Burn does. Snapcaster also provides excellent utility in games 2 and 3. UR Delver's sideboard space is tight. And being able to flashback a 1-of from the main or sideboard gives the deck so much desperately needed flexibility and utility. I can't imagine ever wanting to play the deck without Snapcaster Mage. But builds will of course differ...
I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.
My favorite Commander out of my EDH collection is Ghave, Guru of Spores. He makes tokens, messes with combat math, enables combos, synergizes with Persist and Undying, and acts as a utility mana sink for big mana. What's not to love!?
My issue with simply relying on Bolt/Chain to deal with Eidolon is that is exactly what the Burn player wants me to do. That's playing his game the way he wants me to play it. We have significantly fewer Bolt effects than a true Burn deck. If I Shock myself just to kill a 2/2, the Burn player gains a significant advantage over me in terms of both damage and cards. Add in the fact that Burn is now also maindecking Searing Blaze, and it is unlikely that I will be able to make a flipped Delver last long, or gain any such advantage from forcing him deal with my threat in kind.
Destructive Revelry can also deal with a Burn player's Sulfuric Vortex. Another source of constant damage that is very likely to be more beneficial to them than to myself.
Also add in the likelihood that a Burn player may want to seriously considering mulliganing to a hand that includes Eidolon (because it is EXTREMELY effective against us), and Revelry is not nearly as risky of a "dead card in hand" as it may first appear to be.
I think I just prefer the Oblivion Rings in my sideboard that I can lay down off a Show and Tell or just side in against decks that I feel I need extra removal for.
I wasn't sure if Pyrostatic Pillar would need to be main or just exta in the side and I see Jon Thiel opted for side. That feels right when I look at the list. I might opt for some number of maindeck Price of Progress over a few Flame Rift - to help break the symmetrical damage. But that can be meta dependant. And I've always prefered a split of Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre over Relic of Progenitus. But overall, I really like the build. I think it's the next smart evolution of Mono Red Burn
Strange. I play the aggressive Goblin Guide version of the deck myself. And I find Snapcaster to be exactly what the deck wants. Alongside Grim Lavamancer, he provides the extra reach that UR Delver needs to play out with the same aggression that its cousin Mono R Burn does. Snapcaster also provides excellent utility in games 2 and 3. UR Delver's sideboard space is tight. And being able to flashback a 1-of from the main or sideboard gives the deck so much desperately needed flexibility and utility. I can't imagine ever wanting to play the deck without Snapcaster Mage. But builds will of course differ...
I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.