New poster. I'v been playing DnT for a short while now but I've been read this thread for couple of months now and I've watched bunch of games with different variations of the deck. It has been a pleasure to see such a friendly and high quality discussion here!
Currently, I've been dabbling with mono-W (small colorless splash, budget so no Canopies) and most recently with UW. Could you comment on both lists? Meta is my small local game-store, so that may explain some of the tech.
Any constructive comments are welcomed, really Haven't tested UW yet much at all but my first impression with UW (and other second/third colors) is that the deck becomes much more inconsistent. So, in general I'm at the moment more happy with the mono-W (with the small colorless splash).
I'm new to this thread, although I've followed the discussion for awhile. Thanks for everyone's input!
I've played Spirits a little while, 3-4 FNMs or so. I used to play Elves but sold them due to boringness. Besides semi-budget U/W Spirits, I play U/W Emeria Control. Both utilize similar manabases, which makes the decks affordable to me.
I'll attend to FNM today with the following list and I'll try to post a report/results:
My next agenda is to grab couple of Snapcaster Mages to improve the deck. I think I'll wait after the next modern masters, though. Eventually, I'll get couple of Cryptics too.
If you have criticism to my list, I'm happy to receive it! Happy haunting!
I went 2-1-1 in my first FNM with U/W Emeria. I may provide a report later, but now I need some help for tomorrow's tournament.
How do you play against Eggs? What cards should you counter and when? What should be named with Nevermore? What would you side in and out, give me examples.
Much thanks!
P.S. The title of the thread says Azorius (or Azourius). Should other color combinations also be discussed here? Just to make things clear.
I'm pretty skeptical about Jace Vryn's Prodigy. However, could you post an example list, which includes Jace? In that way I could give you a proper assessment.
In a general iteration of the deck, Jace does not further the game plan. He doesn't have an ETB ability, he doesn't block effectively, and he's pretty slow to flip in our deck.
Thanks for the list! I ordered 2 Nevermore and 1 Pithing Needle for some cheap combo/planeswalker-hate That's what I like about this deck: It's quite cheap and it can put up a fight
You having only 19 creatures and lots of sweepers main is pretty interesting. Cutting 3 Pilgrim's Eye or 3 Eldrazi Skyspawner or what-have-you altogether is a curious choice. Crucible and Gideon (I'm sure) are pretty expensive cards, but I may test some replacements there... The list got me brainstorming
EDIT: Nevermind about Gideon! It's cheap to my surprise.
Skyspawner provides more power (a better clock) and two bodies for blocking and the chance to ramp into something (Titan).
Out 2 Aether Spellbomb
In 2 Blessed Alliance
In the end, Alliance costs the same amount of mana that has to spent on the Spellbomb. Alliance also does the things we want: removes creatures and/or gains us life.
Out 1 Ojutai's Command
In 1 Detention Sphere
Lowering the curve and emphasizing catch-all type of removal. Command is nice, but nothing special.
Gained new slots in the SB and put these in: 2 Worship, 1 Celestial Purge and replaced 1 Supreme Verdict with 1 Wrath of God.
Once the rest of my orders arrive, especially the SB is bound to have additional changes.
As always, criticism is welcome! The fourth Missionary and Hussar is still under consideration once the cards arrive.
Ojutai's Command is very situtational, I would switch it with one of the negates out of the SB. Æther Spellbomb is outdated, you can add some nice wanky cards in this spot you really want to see in modern, like another Supreme Verdict, a counterspell(Swan Song), a Venser, the Sojourner, another Detention Sphere.. Cards I'm no fan of: Pilgrim's Eye, 2-of Mortarpod. Some switch I recommend everyone: 4 Inquisitor Exarch for the missionaries. With Ojutai's Command and even 2 Blessed Alliance you have enough extra lifegain to fight burn quite efficient.
I think the sideboard lacks ways to fight combo and tron better. 4 Negates are usually not enough. 3 Tormod's Crypt seem to be too much, because the graveyard decks that are running aroung at the moment are dredge and maybe living end, which are answered by the maindeck already.
The manabase looks good, but 4 ghost quarter are very much.
Have fun playing, I hope some of my ideas get accepted
Thanks for the feedback! Some of your ideas are at least worthy of strong consideration if not outright acceptable
Ojutai's Command could be cut. I already replaced one Command with a land, maybe it's correct to replace the other as well with a Supreme Verdict or something...
Aether Spellbomb could be outdated, but I'm worried about the manacurve. The deck already has a bit high curve to my liking and cutting one-drops - especially since there are so few of them - feels bad. Perhaps Kami of False Hope could be something to consider... Or just put some Dismembers in. Regardless, I want to be able to interact fast especially in the current Modern format, which has turned out to be pretty aggressive. Paths are not always enough.
I find it curious that you hint that I may have too many Ghost Quarters, but not enough ways to combat Tron Besides Negates, I have Stonys in the SB.
Inquisitor Exarch needs some argumentation. Why is it better than Lone Missionary? 4 life against 2 life is so much better in my mind and the drain seems very situational. The extra lifegain with Missionary does not serve only against Burn but against any aggro or deck with Bolt. As I have said before, the aim of the deck - usually - is to survive to the late game. Missionary does this better than Exarch. Unless I'm missing something... I'm interested hearing counter-arguments.
You may be correct regarding Tormod's Crypts. I'm going to replace some of them with Surgical Extractions anyway. However, there are other potent decks that use the GY like Storm, Snapcaster and delve decks and some fringe decks like Eggs.
I finally got my deck together! As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I'm a newbie with this particular deck, but I have relatively clear sense of what it wants to do and how to pilot it.
So, here's my iteration at the moment. I like to think it as the "meat and potatoes" version of the deck, nothing fancy. All constructive criticism (both positive and negative) and other suggestions are well appreciated!
What I have been thinking about is to cut 1 Flickerwisp and 1 Pilgrim's Eye and replace them with the fourth Lone Missionary to lower the curve a tiny bit and with the fourth Court Hussar to ensure card draw and selection. What could the pros and cons of this change?
Thoughts on Worship as a sideboard card? It has the ability to surprise in lots of matches and some decks simply fold to it. However, it cannot be recurred with Emeria or Sun Titan.
Thanks for your qualifying remarks! You are correct.
Regarding the strategy of the deck, I just wanted to highlight that we are talking about a late game control deck. Some card suggestion that I noticed above seemed to regard the deck as something else. Perhaps I was too rhetorical not taking the necessary conditional situations - as Tron - into account.
For sure Invasive Surgery and Ceremonious Rejection are narrower than Negate. In general, Negate is the best counterspell for the deck. However, I maintain that in the correct meta Surgery and Rejection are something to consider, since they cost only one mana.
It's a shame that the deck is not displayed more by renown MTG Youtube channels or pro players. I don't have too much opportunity to test the deck outside FNMs, so seeing others play it would benefit me greatly.
@ENCOhRE Thanks a million for the new primer! There was a great need for it!
A tiny bit about myself: I'm still fairly new to Modern. I played somewhat budget Elves for at least a year before getting tired of the same goldfishing over and over again. When I saw UW Emeria being played by SaffronOlive, I immediately fell in love with it. Since being on budget I couldn't afford to have both Elves and UW Emeria simultaneously. Now that I'm selling Elves, I can play the deck that I've wanted for so long. But that's enough about my MTG history for now.
There seems to be a little bit of confusion regarding what the deck wants to achieve. In my mind, the goal is to extend the game so that Emeria becomes active. That means we want really to control the game, there is no hurry whatsoever. The longer the game goes, the better for us. So any aggro, tempo or even combo elements should be held secondary compared to the grind that helps us to achieve turns 8+.
Besides contemplating the deck as a whole, I have two counterspells to suggest: Ceremonious Rejection and Invasive Surgery. Both are somewhat meta dependent, as always, but if you are worried about Scapeshift or another crippling sorcery, Surgery is the answer for you. Rejection takes care of both artifacts and Eldrazi. Very powerful in the correct meta. That's my two cents for now.
Thanks again for creating the community! I hope everyone can benefit from each other's insights!
P.S. Are there any Youtube (or other) gameplay videos available that are less than year old?
If I indeed stated that GB is weak to aggro hate, that was not my intention. As you said, with Lead it's quite the opposite. I'm actually choosing Lead, since with Shaman I want to have every chance for an elfball to finish the game without attacking.
@Everyone
-What are the latest developments with Eldritch Evolution? Is there any consensus regarding what should be included in EE-Elves? Is there a separate quality forum for discussion?
-Could someone knowledgeable and otherwise smart fella update the introduction to the primer? Core, differences between Lead and Chord and also GW and GB, sideboard options, MUs... An up-to-date summary on the very first page could serve as a starting point and could diminish the same questions being asked over and over again from simple people like me People have put in a lot of work developing Elves. Only if this information was gathered together...
As a new poster like me, you need to teach me about better rhetorical strategy on how to get feedback ;D
Anyways, I think I'm already over with the UW version. Mono-W rocks and I might entertain BW Eldrazi although the manabase worries me.
I've went 4-0 and 3-1 with Mono-W in the two FNM's I've played with it so that also contributes to why I like it
New poster. I'v been playing DnT for a short while now but I've been read this thread for couple of months now and I've watched bunch of games with different variations of the deck. It has been a pleasure to see such a friendly and high quality discussion here!
Currently, I've been dabbling with mono-W (small colorless splash, budget so no Canopies) and most recently with UW. Could you comment on both lists? Meta is my small local game-store, so that may explain some of the tech.
11 Plains
3 Shefet Dunes
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
Creatures (27)
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
2 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Restoration Angel
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Sunlance
2 Fragmentize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Island
2 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
Creature (29)
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Meddling Mage
2 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Reflector Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Restoration Angel
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Dismember
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Meddling Mage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Reflector Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Stony Silence
Any constructive comments are welcomed, really Haven't tested UW yet much at all but my first impression with UW (and other second/third colors) is that the deck becomes much more inconsistent. So, in general I'm at the moment more happy with the mono-W (with the small colorless splash).
I'm new to this thread, although I've followed the discussion for awhile. Thanks for everyone's input!
I've played Spirits a little while, 3-4 FNMs or so. I used to play Elves but sold them due to boringness. Besides semi-budget U/W Spirits, I play U/W Emeria Control. Both utilize similar manabases, which makes the decks affordable to me.
I'll attend to FNM today with the following list and I'll try to post a report/results:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Prairie Stream
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Moorland Haunt
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Nebelgast Herald
4 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
3 Vapor Snag
4 Remand
My next agenda is to grab couple of Snapcaster Mages to improve the deck. I think I'll wait after the next modern masters, though. Eventually, I'll get couple of Cryptics too.
If you have criticism to my list, I'm happy to receive it! Happy haunting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRFN4ZbwJfc
I would make some slight changes to the list, but looks interesting nonetheless.
Would cut Pilgrim's Eyes and Ojutai's Commands for more Supreme Verdicts, Negates and/or Detention Spheres.
What do you think of adding Saheeli Rai?
How do you play against Eggs? What cards should you counter and when? What should be named with Nevermore? What would you side in and out, give me examples.
Much thanks!
P.S. The title of the thread says Azorius (or Azourius). Should other color combinations also be discussed here? Just to make things clear.
I'm pretty skeptical about Jace Vryn's Prodigy. However, could you post an example list, which includes Jace? In that way I could give you a proper assessment.
In a general iteration of the deck, Jace does not further the game plan. He doesn't have an ETB ability, he doesn't block effectively, and he's pretty slow to flip in our deck.
Thanks for the list! I ordered 2 Nevermore and 1 Pithing Needle for some cheap combo/planeswalker-hate That's what I like about this deck: It's quite cheap and it can put up a fight
You having only 19 creatures and lots of sweepers main is pretty interesting. Cutting 3 Pilgrim's Eye or 3 Eldrazi Skyspawner or what-have-you altogether is a curious choice. Crucible and Gideon (I'm sure) are pretty expensive cards, but I may test some replacements there... The list got me brainstorming
EDIT: Nevermind about Gideon! It's cheap to my surprise.
Thanks again for the feedback! I updated the deck after considering your thoughts:
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
7 Plains
1 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
Creatures (21)
4 Wall of Omens
3 Lone Missionary
3 Court Hussar
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Flickerwisp
4 Sun Titan
4 Path to Exile
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Negate
2 Mortarpod
3 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Dismember
1 Disenchant
1 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silence
2 Worship
1 Wrath of God
2 Dispel
2 Negate
Changes to the previous iteration:
Out 3 Pilgrim's Eye
In 3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
Skyspawner provides more power (a better clock) and two bodies for blocking and the chance to ramp into something (Titan).
Out 2 Aether Spellbomb
In 2 Blessed Alliance
In the end, Alliance costs the same amount of mana that has to spent on the Spellbomb. Alliance also does the things we want: removes creatures and/or gains us life.
Out 1 Ojutai's Command
In 1 Detention Sphere
Lowering the curve and emphasizing catch-all type of removal. Command is nice, but nothing special.
Gained new slots in the SB and put these in: 2 Worship, 1 Celestial Purge and replaced 1 Supreme Verdict with 1 Wrath of God.
Once the rest of my orders arrive, especially the SB is bound to have additional changes.
As always, criticism is welcome! The fourth Missionary and Hussar is still under consideration once the cards arrive.
Thanks for the advice! I will surely consider them.
Could you post your decklist?
Thanks for the feedback! Some of your ideas are at least worthy of strong consideration if not outright acceptable
Ojutai's Command could be cut. I already replaced one Command with a land, maybe it's correct to replace the other as well with a Supreme Verdict or something...
Aether Spellbomb could be outdated, but I'm worried about the manacurve. The deck already has a bit high curve to my liking and cutting one-drops - especially since there are so few of them - feels bad. Perhaps Kami of False Hope could be something to consider... Or just put some Dismembers in. Regardless, I want to be able to interact fast especially in the current Modern format, which has turned out to be pretty aggressive. Paths are not always enough.
I find it curious that you hint that I may have too many Ghost Quarters, but not enough ways to combat Tron Besides Negates, I have Stonys in the SB.
Inquisitor Exarch needs some argumentation. Why is it better than Lone Missionary? 4 life against 2 life is so much better in my mind and the drain seems very situational. The extra lifegain with Missionary does not serve only against Burn but against any aggro or deck with Bolt. As I have said before, the aim of the deck - usually - is to survive to the late game. Missionary does this better than Exarch. Unless I'm missing something... I'm interested hearing counter-arguments.
You may be correct regarding Tormod's Crypts. I'm going to replace some of them with Surgical Extractions anyway. However, there are other potent decks that use the GY like Storm, Snapcaster and delve decks and some fringe decks like Eggs.
So, here's my iteration at the moment. I like to think it as the "meat and potatoes" version of the deck, nothing fancy. All constructive criticism (both positive and negative) and other suggestions are well appreciated!
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
7 Plains
1 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
Creatures (21)
4 Wall of Omens
3 Lone Missionary
4 Flickerwisp
3 Court Hussar
3 Pilgrim's Eye
4 Sun Titan
2 Aether Spellbomb
4 Path to Exile
2 Mortarpod
2 Negate
2 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Ojutai's Command
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Dismember
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Disenchant
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
What I have been thinking about is to cut 1 Flickerwisp and 1 Pilgrim's Eye and replace them with the fourth Lone Missionary to lower the curve a tiny bit and with the fourth Court Hussar to ensure card draw and selection. What could the pros and cons of this change?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks for your qualifying remarks! You are correct.
Regarding the strategy of the deck, I just wanted to highlight that we are talking about a late game control deck. Some card suggestion that I noticed above seemed to regard the deck as something else. Perhaps I was too rhetorical not taking the necessary conditional situations - as Tron - into account.
For sure Invasive Surgery and Ceremonious Rejection are narrower than Negate. In general, Negate is the best counterspell for the deck. However, I maintain that in the correct meta Surgery and Rejection are something to consider, since they cost only one mana.
It's a shame that the deck is not displayed more by renown MTG Youtube channels or pro players. I don't have too much opportunity to test the deck outside FNMs, so seeing others play it would benefit me greatly.
A tiny bit about myself: I'm still fairly new to Modern. I played somewhat budget Elves for at least a year before getting tired of the same goldfishing over and over again. When I saw UW Emeria being played by SaffronOlive, I immediately fell in love with it. Since being on budget I couldn't afford to have both Elves and UW Emeria simultaneously. Now that I'm selling Elves, I can play the deck that I've wanted for so long. But that's enough about my MTG history for now.
There seems to be a little bit of confusion regarding what the deck wants to achieve. In my mind, the goal is to extend the game so that Emeria becomes active. That means we want really to control the game, there is no hurry whatsoever. The longer the game goes, the better for us. So any aggro, tempo or even combo elements should be held secondary compared to the grind that helps us to achieve turns 8+.
Besides contemplating the deck as a whole, I have two counterspells to suggest: Ceremonious Rejection and Invasive Surgery. Both are somewhat meta dependent, as always, but if you are worried about Scapeshift or another crippling sorcery, Surgery is the answer for you. Rejection takes care of both artifacts and Eldrazi. Very powerful in the correct meta. That's my two cents for now.
Thanks again for creating the community! I hope everyone can benefit from each other's insights!
P.S. Are there any Youtube (or other) gameplay videos available that are less than year old?
Huge thanks for a fast and thorough response!
If I indeed stated that GB is weak to aggro hate, that was not my intention. As you said, with Lead it's quite the opposite. I'm actually choosing Lead, since with Shaman I want to have every chance for an elfball to finish the game without attacking.
@Everyone
-What are the latest developments with Eldritch Evolution? Is there any consensus regarding what should be included in EE-Elves? Is there a separate quality forum for discussion?
-Could someone knowledgeable and otherwise smart fella update the introduction to the primer? Core, differences between Lead and Chord and also GW and GB, sideboard options, MUs... An up-to-date summary on the very first page could serve as a starting point and could diminish the same questions being asked over and over again from simple people like me People have put in a lot of work developing Elves. Only if this information was gathered together...