Instead of ricochet trap, play some pithing needle for your meta. Stop ravager, inkmoth Nexus, spellskite, cranial plating, nahiri and such.
^This. Been stapling at least 1 Needle for a good while in sb now, card's crazy flexible. Almost every deck got something of importance that can be shut, even tron, breach and ad nauseam.
Also agree that while Ricochet Trap is a sweet card, there ain't much to do with it as of now. Control decks and merfolk hardly poses a threat, and isn't very present.
There's U/R Kiln Fiend, but there's way better options than redirecting their Temur Battle Rage to our creature (if we have one).
Glad to see some discussion on Bridge. Been running 2-3 in SB for a while with 4 P&K main for thopter beats, it actually works out quite well against desperate situations like RG Breach.
I'm really interested in your addition of Hangarback Walker, the synergy might just be right for having the Bridges main. Only concern is that bridge doesn't work well against some pretty aggresive, popular decks like Infect, Affinity, Burn, as well as Tron and control. But then again, those decks die to either sweeps or moons.
Would it be too greedy to play something like Slagstorm over Anger to fit with Hangarback?
Don't forget that you can redirect their counterspell to Ricochet Trap, making it fizzle as trap is gone from stack when the counterspell resolves. In that sense it's technically the same as countering the spell.
Only situations I can come up with where Guttural's better:
* Opponent is casting a Cryptic Command with two targets, as Trap can only redirect if it got a single.
Trap still deals with Cryptic with counter/bounce+draw tho.
* Opponent's trying to Vapor Snag your creature with no creatures himself.
Reverberate seems spicy, but is it worth it over Ricochet Trap? Do tell after some testing ~
I also think 3 Rabblemasters is fair, you'll want to see one against the decks it comes in against. Dragon's Claw not the hottest cut, but should be manageable.
I'm no fan of 3rd Sheets either. It's one of those cards which is fantastic when relevant (often late), but only provides clunky mana when not, especially without SSG.
Not really, I've been thinking about running him for a while, but always end up considering Stormbreath as the better of the two. But with Parents protecting the walkers, it might be worth a shot.
This is my planned setup for bombs moving forward:
Can definately see two Sarkhans in Stormbreath's spots in this. Very few decks atm running paths to make prot-white useful, but I might miss the monstrosity trigger.
Beat Burn, Slivers, and 2x Bant Spirits in swiss, lost to infect, Blossoming Defence seems good. In top 8 I lost to Kiln Burn/UR Suicide, which I felt could be winnable if I'd drawn threats earlier.
1.round were streamed, vid here.
Otherwise there's not much to report, Blood Moon won most games. However there's some card choices that can be considered:
* Tried Pyrite Spellbomb over Magma Jet this time, still not sure where to land. Damage-part was activated way more, tilting me slighly back to Magma Jet.
* Mizzium Mortars was perfect. I never overloaded it, but having the option is fantastic. Also Roast wouldn't be able to deal with spirits.
* Sudden Shock is sweet, but 2 is enough. Hard to find any good cuts for the 3rd.
* I'm not sure wheter or not Ensnaring Bridge is worth it in Skred, but it's what I came up with to deal with all the R/G Breach and Suicide decks since at least 1 often place high. Sided it only against UR Suicide, but never saw it.
Jus wondering, is there any reason why lavamancer doesn't see any play with this deck? I've only been playing modern for a month but it's one of my favorite cards and it doesn't seem bad vs the format
Without fetches it may not have enough fuel, and we'd have to cut relics. Also dies to sweepers, making it an awkward early play.
Still interesting tho, card's awesome.
Might be shell for it, likely sideboard.
I already pack 2x Magma Jet and they do their job filtering the draws and killing early game creatures, I'm not sure that I want more than 2x though. Pia and Kiran Nalaar have been consistently good when played so I'm not inclined to drop the 1x copy I have.
After quite some testing, I've landed on 2 Jets as well. Wouldn't go higher because drawing many is meh, but I wouldn't mind drawing one late either. I'm curious on why you don't run more P&K when they're consistenly good tho ~
I want to add a Roast or 2x but I'm not sure what to cut, maybe 1x Volcanic Fallout and go down to 22 lands.
I would also like to find room for a 2nd Chandra, Torch of Defiance but not sure if it worth dropping to 3x Koth's
(as they aren't great when trying to come back from behind).
I agree with nhan, don't drop Koth. He's simply one of the best threats ever and our deck got the privilege of running him to his full potential. I wouldn't cut the 23th land either, especially as you don't run either Mind Stones or Simian Spirit Guide, P.Spellbombs and/or Jets just doesn't make up for it.
Got no experience playing GDD, but cutting a 5-drop seems like the right choice so I'll 2nd nhan here too. With another Chandra you'll have 10 big threats without counting Shrines and reckoners, which should be plenty.
For the other cut, I'd personally place the Shrines in SB against grindy matchups, but again got no experience with them main.
I've been running 2 Fallout / 1 Anger / 1 Mizzium Mortars main + 2 more Angers in sb for a while now, and find this to be a decent setup.
Usually ran 3 Angers main, but in some matchups sweepers isn't worth much, and fallout can at least deal 2 uncountrable damage to face, proving some extended flexability in a meta with control. Instant-speed got its uses against tokens and manlands too, and 2 dmg is usually enough.
Still want 3 Angers spread across the boards tho.
Mortars is better than roast in my meta as Tasigur's not present, and it still snags early goyfs. With 6 walkers that may ramp, it also supplies as "4th sweeper" main.
As for Reckoner/GDD debate, the cards are value by their own even with some nonbos, and you probably shouldn't exclude goods cards for the niche moments where the synergy hits. We live off some top-decking (Jets may help, but that's all), and having as useful cards as possible in each spot should be crucial.
That said, meta may drop "better" Angers for "worse" Pyroclasm/Fallouts or some other stuff, so take that statement with a pinch of salt.
I'll have to disagree on this. Sorry if my rant sounds pretentious since I'm new here and all, but I've slinged moons for years in legacy and followed Blue Moon and Skred Red closely, so I feel like I can voice in on this exact matter. Everything's opinions ofc.
In my opinion, Blood Moon is the main reason for why this deck, or any moon deck for that matter, is even a thing. It's either win on the spot or have 4 dead cards in the deck, I'll accept that favored gamble anytime. It's best out of 3 after all, and hey we got Koths!
If we're to start cutting moons because they're occasionally effective, it would probably be better to throw 4 in SB and slam them where it matters, you'll still spread concern in the hearts of many.
In a well established meta however, there's still a lot of greedy manabases. Only relevant decks I can think of that dodges moon is burn, merfolk, elves and storm, all tier 2- decks which either die to Anger of the Gods or Dragon's Claw from sb (which is why I got 4 instead of 3). I mean, I won 6 out of 8 matches yesterday on the back of a blood moon, only siding them out against the BR storm for 4 claws. Maybe my vision will fade with time and modern experience, but I highly doubt it unless some major changes happens to the format.
Yeah I'm aware of that fact, so I specifically stated that I attacked with a previous-played mountain. Should've been more precice since audio wasn't recorded!
And here's my list. I adjusted it to fit 4 moons while still retaining at least 11 spot-burn and at least 3 sweepers. I'm not physically experienced with this deck, but I've played Painter in legacy for a good while, sharing the lunatic thoughtset. The TL;DR is that blood moon wins so many games, and I see no reason for not running 4. Sure, it sucks to draw the second or maybe even third one, but the first has already won you the game most of the time anyway.
I chose to play Simian Spirit Guide over Mind Stones as I don't like to tap out on turn 2 to ramp into a 4-drop. I mean, where do you play moon? It's most effective asap, and ssg can ramp into either T2 Moon or T3 walker. Comparing the two in the late game it's either 3 mana to draw a card or 3 mana for a 2/2, and without library manipulation (except 2 Jets) I'd take the 2/2, personally.
Revoker is a small tech mainly for Ad Nauseam matchup (shuts off their fast mana), but it works well against tron too since they'll probably side out any pyroclasm unless they see the cheesy couple.
Vandalblast was supposed to be 2nd Shattering Spree, but didn't have access to another at the moment.
/end of rant
On to the games!
As mentioned before I went 4-0-2 in swiss and lost first round in top8. I was featured in the 2nd and 4th rounds, vids linked to respective titles for those games. Alas, the commentary is in norwegian and there's an awkward camera behind my back between games, but you'll get a pretty good view of the board. Overall pretty sweet for a local team hosting this modern series with livestream purely for fun!
I haven't played this deck irl before and not even modern for at least a year, so bear with me when I'm thinking too much about an obvious play, as well as some bad sequencing.
Round 1: 4-color Zoo/Tribal Flames Zoo
Knew this guy from last time I play modern, when he was a long-time player of abzan midrange. Thought he still played it, and kept a relatively slow hand with some minor control ending into stormbreath.
When he dropped a geist, I was quickly overwhelmed without Anger, and not even walkers or a T4 stormbreath could save me (t.flamed). Scoop.
Two next games went smooth and simple. Fast blood moons followed up with Angers and Rains, ending into Koth beatdowns. All-in-all a pretty good matchup.
Round 2: Waste Not Storm (wth?)Vid
Weird match. His deck seemed incredibly clunky, but I really liked the idea with Waste Not + Burning Inquiry. He barely got there game 1 (1dmg off sniping with spirit guides and bolts), but games 2 and 3 he did pretty much nothing, sadly. If I knew better that he relied on Past in Flames I wouldn't crack the relics so early either, maybe even winning game 1.
Round 3: Esper Control
Not much to say, early moons (I think turn 2 both games) and big threats to follow made short process of the seasoned eternal-player.
Round 4: Tron (looking back, it seemed mono-green)Vid
This is a really really good player, one of Missed Triggers "main men". During game 1 I did a greedy play with T3 ssg into Koth, with no additional lands at hand. I could've played Chandra instead and ramped into Koth or Stormbreath the following turn, but thought I had to pressure him fast since I didn't have moon and wouldn't commit too much to Oblivion Stone. As I didn't draw any more mana, I think this was a bad decision and would probably have a better chance doing the latter.
Games 2 and 3 were won off unanswered blood moon. Last game was pretty interesting, but you can see the vid above!
Top 8: Tron (same guy)
Game 1 I kept a 6-card hand with moon and 2 lands on the play. Sadly, I didn't draw or cycle into the 3rd source until 4th turn, and he got the chance to Karn away my mountains.
Game 2 was pretty interesting. At a point I had 2 moons, Koth AND Chandra in play, but still lost. He end-of-turned 2 Nature's Claim on moons, and followed up with Karn, eating Koth. I was so close burning him down, leaving him at 4 life. Then Ulamog exiled my chandra and a land, and I never found Stormbreath to save the day.
A sour loss, but still very happy with 5th place.
A few remarks:
Stormbreath main instead of Pia and Kiran was supposed to be a meta-call since the last big tourney had lots of bant eldrazi and Tron. However this time around it was only 1 of each, and most of the room otherwise contained tarmogoyfs, so I should probably have done Stormbreath/Parents the other way around like in adonis' list. Luckily I didn't get punished for it tho, rather rewarded considering my matchups.
Chandra is amazing, but more of a support compared to Koth. I wouldn't drop any Koths for more chandras, and think 4/2 split is perfect (maybe 3rd chandra if you cut something else). Scourge is also amazing, especially when exiled with Chandra's +1.
Incredibly fun deck to play. Thank you so much for this thread, it helped a lot when assembling deck and provided intel to cute plays like Koth-Skred opponent's lands.
Hey guys, I`ve been lurking around here for a while and recently completed my list.
Playing first time at a fairly large tournament atm, ~40 people and swiss 6 into top8.
I`m at 4-0 draw-in, beating 4-color zoo; some janky and cool br storm; esper control and RG tron.
Planning to write a small report later with final standing, including links to some matches which was featured. List is somewhat similiar to adonis`, but I play 4 spirit guide and 4 moons and some other changes, full list comes with report!
UPDATE: Alright, short-lived hype. Double-drawed into top 8 (1.st place after swiss), but lost first round to the very same Tron-player I beat in round 4. Bummer.
I'll summary my card choices and post the links once they're up. Sneak-peek of my list here!
Also agree that while Ricochet Trap is a sweet card, there ain't much to do with it as of now. Control decks and merfolk hardly poses a threat, and isn't very present.
There's U/R Kiln Fiend, but there's way better options than redirecting their Temur Battle Rage to our creature (if we have one).
Glad to see some discussion on Bridge. Been running 2-3 in SB for a while with 4 P&K main for thopter beats, it actually works out quite well against desperate situations like RG Breach.
I'm really interested in your addition of Hangarback Walker, the synergy might just be right for having the Bridges main. Only concern is that bridge doesn't work well against some pretty aggresive, popular decks like Infect, Affinity, Burn, as well as Tron and control. But then again, those decks die to either sweeps or moons.
Would it be too greedy to play something like Slagstorm over Anger to fit with Hangarback?
Only situations I can come up with where Guttural's better:
* Opponent is casting a Cryptic Command with two targets, as Trap can only redirect if it got a single.
Trap still deals with Cryptic with counter/bounce+draw tho.
* Opponent's trying to Vapor Snag your creature with no creatures himself.
Plenty narrow, so I'd say Ricochet Trap is a lot better than Guttural Response.
Reverberate seems spicy, but is it worth it over Ricochet Trap? Do tell after some testing ~
I also think 3 Rabblemasters is fair, you'll want to see one against the decks it comes in against. Dragon's Claw not the hottest cut, but should be manageable.
I'm no fan of 3rd Sheets either. It's one of those cards which is fantastic when relevant (often late), but only provides clunky mana when not, especially without SSG.
This is my planned setup for bombs moving forward:
2x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Eternal Scourge
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Very nice read, seems like an awesome guy. Guess I'll have to transition to P&K with Mind Stones for a bit.
By the way, is there any feedback on Ensnaring Bridges in sb against Breach and/or Suicide? Sorry if I've missed a discussion on it :|
List has seen a few changes since last time:
21x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Scrying Sheets
Creatures
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Eternal Scourge
Burn
4x Skred
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Blood Moon
4x Relic of Progenitus
Planeswalkers
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Dragon's Claw
3x Molten Rain
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Sudden Shock
2x Shattering Spree
1.round were streamed, vid here.
Otherwise there's not much to report, Blood Moon won most games. However there's some card choices that can be considered:
* Tried Pyrite Spellbomb over Magma Jet this time, still not sure where to land. Damage-part was activated way more, tilting me slighly back to Magma Jet.
* Mizzium Mortars was perfect. I never overloaded it, but having the option is fantastic. Also Roast wouldn't be able to deal with spirits.
* Sudden Shock is sweet, but 2 is enough. Hard to find any good cuts for the 3rd.
* I'm not sure wheter or not Ensnaring Bridge is worth it in Skred, but it's what I came up with to deal with all the R/G Breach and Suicide decks since at least 1 often place high. Sided it only against UR Suicide, but never saw it.
Without fetches it may not have enough fuel, and we'd have to cut relics. Also dies to sweepers, making it an awkward early play.
Still interesting tho, card's awesome.
Might be shell for it, likely sideboard.
I agree with nhan, don't drop Koth. He's simply one of the best threats ever and our deck got the privilege of running him to his full potential. I wouldn't cut the 23th land either, especially as you don't run either Mind Stones or Simian Spirit Guide, P.Spellbombs and/or Jets just doesn't make up for it.
Got no experience playing GDD, but cutting a 5-drop seems like the right choice so I'll 2nd nhan here too. With another Chandra you'll have 10 big threats without counting Shrines and reckoners, which should be plenty.
For the other cut, I'd personally place the Shrines in SB against grindy matchups, but again got no experience with them main.
Usually ran 3 Angers main, but in some matchups sweepers isn't worth much, and fallout can at least deal 2 uncountrable damage to face, proving some extended flexability in a meta with control. Instant-speed got its uses against tokens and manlands too, and 2 dmg is usually enough.
Still want 3 Angers spread across the boards tho.
Mortars is better than roast in my meta as Tasigur's not present, and it still snags early goyfs. With 6 walkers that may ramp, it also supplies as "4th sweeper" main.
As for Reckoner/GDD debate, the cards are value by their own even with some nonbos, and you probably shouldn't exclude goods cards for the niche moments where the synergy hits. We live off some top-decking (Jets may help, but that's all), and having as useful cards as possible in each spot should be crucial.
That said, meta may drop "better" Angers for "worse" Pyroclasm/Fallouts or some other stuff, so take that statement with a pinch of salt.
In my opinion, Blood Moon is the main reason for why this deck, or any moon deck for that matter, is even a thing. It's either win on the spot or have 4 dead cards in the deck, I'll accept that favored gamble anytime. It's best out of 3 after all, and hey we got Koths!
If we're to start cutting moons because they're occasionally effective, it would probably be better to throw 4 in SB and slam them where it matters, you'll still spread concern in the hearts of many.
In a well established meta however, there's still a lot of greedy manabases. Only relevant decks I can think of that dodges moon is burn, merfolk, elves and storm, all tier 2- decks which either die to Anger of the Gods or Dragon's Claw from sb (which is why I got 4 instead of 3). I mean, I won 6 out of 8 matches yesterday on the back of a blood moon, only siding them out against the BR storm for 4 claws. Maybe my vision will fade with time and modern experience, but I highly doubt it unless some major changes happens to the format.
Interesting list, I dig the creature-setup and sb traps!
I feel Word of Seizing is too situational to earn a spot, but still an interesting approach to opposing walkers.
21x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Scrying Sheets
Creatures
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Eternal Scourge
Instants/Sorceries
4x Skred
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Magma Jet
1x Roast
4x Blood Moon
4x Relic of Progenitus
Planeswalkers
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Dragon's Claw
3x Molten Rain
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Sudden Shock
1x Shattering Spree
1x Vandalblast
And here's my list. I adjusted it to fit 4 moons while still retaining at least 11 spot-burn and at least 3 sweepers. I'm not physically experienced with this deck, but I've played Painter in legacy for a good while, sharing the lunatic thoughtset. The TL;DR is that blood moon wins so many games, and I see no reason for not running 4. Sure, it sucks to draw the second or maybe even third one, but the first has already won you the game most of the time anyway.
I chose to play Simian Spirit Guide over Mind Stones as I don't like to tap out on turn 2 to ramp into a 4-drop. I mean, where do you play moon? It's most effective asap, and ssg can ramp into either T2 Moon or T3 walker. Comparing the two in the late game it's either 3 mana to draw a card or 3 mana for a 2/2, and without library manipulation (except 2 Jets) I'd take the 2/2, personally.
Revoker is a small tech mainly for Ad Nauseam matchup (shuts off their fast mana), but it works well against tron too since they'll probably side out any pyroclasm unless they see the cheesy couple.
Vandalblast was supposed to be 2nd Shattering Spree, but didn't have access to another at the moment.
/end of rant
On to the games!
As mentioned before I went 4-0-2 in swiss and lost first round in top8. I was featured in the 2nd and 4th rounds, vids linked to respective titles for those games. Alas, the commentary is in norwegian and there's an awkward camera behind my back between games, but you'll get a pretty good view of the board. Overall pretty sweet for a local team hosting this modern series with livestream purely for fun!
I haven't played this deck irl before and not even modern for at least a year, so bear with me when I'm thinking too much about an obvious play, as well as some bad sequencing.
Round 1: 4-color Zoo/Tribal Flames Zoo
Knew this guy from last time I play modern, when he was a long-time player of abzan midrange. Thought he still played it, and kept a relatively slow hand with some minor control ending into stormbreath.
When he dropped a geist, I was quickly overwhelmed without Anger, and not even walkers or a T4 stormbreath could save me (t.flamed). Scoop.
Two next games went smooth and simple. Fast blood moons followed up with Angers and Rains, ending into Koth beatdowns. All-in-all a pretty good matchup.
Round 2: Waste Not Storm (wth?) Vid
Weird match. His deck seemed incredibly clunky, but I really liked the idea with Waste Not + Burning Inquiry. He barely got there game 1 (1dmg off sniping with spirit guides and bolts), but games 2 and 3 he did pretty much nothing, sadly. If I knew better that he relied on Past in Flames I wouldn't crack the relics so early either, maybe even winning game 1.
Round 3: Esper Control
Not much to say, early moons (I think turn 2 both games) and big threats to follow made short process of the seasoned eternal-player.
Round 4: Tron (looking back, it seemed mono-green) Vid
This is a really really good player, one of Missed Triggers "main men". During game 1 I did a greedy play with T3 ssg into Koth, with no additional lands at hand. I could've played Chandra instead and ramped into Koth or Stormbreath the following turn, but thought I had to pressure him fast since I didn't have moon and wouldn't commit too much to Oblivion Stone. As I didn't draw any more mana, I think this was a bad decision and would probably have a better chance doing the latter.
Games 2 and 3 were won off unanswered blood moon. Last game was pretty interesting, but you can see the vid above!
Top 8: Tron (same guy)
Game 1 I kept a 6-card hand with moon and 2 lands on the play. Sadly, I didn't draw or cycle into the 3rd source until 4th turn, and he got the chance to Karn away my mountains.
Game 2 was pretty interesting. At a point I had 2 moons, Koth AND Chandra in play, but still lost. He end-of-turned 2 Nature's Claim on moons, and followed up with Karn, eating Koth. I was so close burning him down, leaving him at 4 life. Then Ulamog exiled my chandra and a land, and I never found Stormbreath to save the day.
A sour loss, but still very happy with 5th place.
A few remarks:
Stormbreath main instead of Pia and Kiran was supposed to be a meta-call since the last big tourney had lots of bant eldrazi and Tron. However this time around it was only 1 of each, and most of the room otherwise contained tarmogoyfs, so I should probably have done Stormbreath/Parents the other way around like in adonis' list. Luckily I didn't get punished for it tho, rather rewarded considering my matchups.
Chandra is amazing, but more of a support compared to Koth. I wouldn't drop any Koths for more chandras, and think 4/2 split is perfect (maybe 3rd chandra if you cut something else). Scourge is also amazing, especially when exiled with Chandra's +1.
Incredibly fun deck to play. Thank you so much for this thread, it helped a lot when assembling deck and provided intel to cute plays like Koth-Skred opponent's lands.
Playing first time at a fairly large tournament atm, ~40 people and swiss 6 into top8.
I`m at 4-0 draw-in, beating 4-color zoo; some janky and cool br storm; esper control and RG tron.
Planning to write a small report later with final standing, including links to some matches which was featured. List is somewhat similiar to adonis`, but I play 4 spirit guide and 4 moons and some other changes, full list comes with report!
UPDATE: Alright, short-lived hype. Double-drawed into top 8 (1.st place after swiss), but lost first round to the very same Tron-player I beat in round 4. Bummer.
I'll summary my card choices and post the links once they're up. Sneak-peek of my list here!