It's not a guy that will stick for long as he'll fall to just about every removal in modern. The strength of our threats is their resilience, with Reckoner and P&K being exceptions due to their value. This one doesn't apply to either.
He does trigger on opposing fetches tho which might give him a sligh potential, but imo not in Skred.
Maybe a good sb threat against Tron since they often side out their Clasms post-board, but I suppose Rabblemaster still beats his clock and is more flexible as extra threats to pull in.
Are you certain that's how it works? I'm pretty sure that the Pyroclasm damage would be prevented by protection from red and that you would not get to put any -1/-1 counters on that creature. Anyway, if you face many creatures with protection from red, you could always use Kozilek's return instead of Pyroclasm.
We'd need a judge to be sure, but if I read this right Soul-Scar's ability is a replacement-effect to the damage, basicly turning sweepers into Black Sun's Zenith. I remember this discussion was brought up in Scars standard with Mirran Crusader facing the zenith, and in conclusion he dies.
Anyway I'm on spellbombs so pro-red ain't an issue to me, but it would be an interesting alternative. Not a big fan of Kozilek's.
Guys, which point in time would you say that our deck went from a bunch of red cards thrown together to an actual contender to winning big events?? Throughout the last few years, we haven't had a card that gave us a huge spike in power(blood moon, koth, skred) just gradual slight improvements(scourge, chandra tod) so it's kind of difficult to pinpoint when exactly it happened.
when I think about it, two cards stick out in my mind. Stormbreath, pretty much our 5th-8th Koth, and p&k, a high quality card to bridge the gap and smooth our curve.
You forgot about new Chandra, imo it's the biggest upgrade and the only of the 3 which has been part of all my lists for good reason. Both the dragon and P&K is phenomenal also of course, depending on meta.
Regarding white splash in skred, it's just not going to go smooth with the setup of the deck. You'd need basic plains to keep white under a Moon, and fetches to get them consistently. Less snow-covered lands (fetches under moon subtracts further) makes skred much worse, and basic plains makes our built-around Koth worse. I've never been a fan of 3rd Scrying Sheets for the same reason, then again I'm a big fan of ramping out a Chandra from Koth's -2.
There's definately a good RW control deck out there, but it would probably be built around Nahiri than Koth with a completely different removal suite.
I don't like the new dragon. For 5 mana I want a finisher, and stormbreath is just so much better at that. Not only is it pro-white, the monstrosity is an undeniably good addition to the clock even against high life totals. It's true that the exert seems good for protecting Koth, but I'd rather have a dead Koth and an untapped Stormbreath than having a tired, more killable dragon and an extra activation from Koth. If the plan is to ult for sure win, then Stormbreath will do just as fine, if not better because of pro-white.
If the extert were 5 dmg, it would've been more interesting. Could've even had a Roast effect instead of non-dragon.
Death's Shadow is a matchup that can be manageable, but it hinges on the opponent not getting down 2 Shadows or having Temur Battle Rage before you can assemble a win through fliers, walkers or burn. You can grind pretty good against 1 shadow with either Reckoner, Parents, and especially Scourge, which might give you the time you need. However with their discard and tutors, they're more likely to progress their gameplan faster. Bridge is a very good tool against them, but won't win you the game outright as they pack Kolaghan's Commands. Overall I'd say it's a tough, but not a hopeless matchup.
UR Aggro? Is it even a deck anymore? At any rate it must be much more manageable without Probe to flip the Thing as quick as they did. There will still be games where they'll go turn 3 kill with Mutagenic Growths into battle rage, but I guess it's a rare nut draw at this point. A roast or two in your 75 should help if the matchup is too stressing.
Solemn and 6-drops has been a thing in Skred before, often named «Big Skred». Even stuff like Ugin and Sundering Titan has been tried.
Nowadays the meta demands fast pressure. Burn, Eldrazi and even Tron won't give the time to do too fancy stuff, but maybe 4 Mind Stones and 4 Solemn for the sake of consistency might get down something significant in time. I think Wurmcoil would be sweet atm, the big lifelink beats aggro and paths are less present. Fares better against Kolaghans than batterskull too.
However aggeession with Stormbreath as curve-topper is the safest option imo.
Shame that you had to face a situation like game 3 match 1, those are my biggest fear when playing in GPs. Glad the judges sorted out the injustice, sadly it doesn't always prove an easy task.
You've got a quite spicy and versatile list, I'm particulary interested in the mainboard Ratchet Bomb. How well does it perform as general removal? It's obviously great for 1-drops, but I can't help but feel it's a clunky and slow topdeck in a lot of other situations.
Went to a 44-man tournament today, featuring swiss 6 into top 8. Didn't exactly go as planned.
Yesterday I juggled my mind between two versions to compete with the meta. I expected about the same as last time: Some tron, some burn and lots of midrange. In the end I went with this:
And actually my meta analysis wasn't wrong, but to everyone's surpise most Grixis Control or BGx player had fit 4 Death's Shadow into their lists. The other version I considered playing was 3 Bridges main + P&K (my old list) to counter zoo, but it's a bit sour that I ended up with the former since I could've had great game against the meta with the latter.
Anyways, a short summary of my games:
Match 1: Abzan CoCo
Game 1 I burned his dudes and landed a Moon at some point and ended fairly quick with a Stormbreath.
Game 2 I landed an early moon and proceded with 2 Molten Rains, but he had sandbagged a forest from his opening hand making him able to play a couple of CoCos after I resolved my Koth. I burned dudes for days, but he found Pulse for my moon, turning on his Gavony Township which pumped his way to victory since he'd landed lots of dorks from CoCo.
Game 3 I mulled to 5, keeping a hand with a T2 moon. He was able to fetch a forest and land a turn 2 Wall of Roots, which kept him in the game for long. At some point he CoCo'd both Spike FeederandSelfless Spirit at the same time, making me unable to deal with the combo as he Chorded for Archangel of Thune
1-2, feel like I should've won this one. In my defence an Anger at any time during game 2-3 would probably have won me the game.
Match 2: Grixis Control
Didn't play shadows, but had a couple Thing in the Ice. However with Probe gone I was able to rid of them in timely shape, making the matchup a walk in the park.
2-0
Match 3: Death's Shadow
This was one of the few who had a dedicated list to the creature, and I only won this barely. Game 1 I was on play with a hand of 3 lands, 2 SSG and Moon. I windmill-slammed a T1 moon and he scooped laughing. However at game 2 I wasn't able to sideboard anything else than -1 Moon for a Rain since I didn't know what he was on. I was somehow able to win anyway by chaining Koth into Chandra, treatening him from several sources. At the end I was at 1 health and were able to block his last attack with Scourge as he ran out of removal, dealing lethal to him in return with walkers.
2-0, with a big stroke of luck.
Match 4: Grixis Control
I was lucky enough to meet the only other Grixis player not featuring Shadow, which resulted into yet another easy win. This is what my list were built to beat.
2-0
Match 5: Titan Breach
Harsh, harsh. I actually won game 1 since he never found any Summoner's Pact or Terastodon to rid of my Moon, but that was lucky af. Games 2 and 3 went like this matchup usually do, there's not enough Moon or Rains to dampen their combo in timely matter. Again I hate myself for not bringing Bridges today.
1-2
Match 6: Grixis Delver w/Death's Shadow
One of the more interesting Shadow lists, featuring Delver, Snappy and Tasigur instead of Goyfs. Game 1 it took a long time before he played the Shadow (2, actually), so I probably wasted a Skred along the way which could've saved me. Eternal Scourge would theoretically fix this matchup, but once they land 2+ Shadows there's no chance without Bridge.
I was able to win game 2 with a savvy chain of Koth -> Chandra -> Roast on his Tasigur, ulting Chandra and being able to burn him while taking only 1 big hit from Shadow.
Game 3 he got down multiple shadows early, and dodged a Roast by bolting himself in response. Couple beats and I'm down.
1-2
3-3 total.
Usually not sad about a result like this, but I feel like I screwed myself with some bad metagaming this time. I didn't meet a lot of Shadow and only lost to 1 of them, but there's was a lot more in the room which I dodged. Didn't meet any Zoo, BGx or tron either which is what I suited for (alongside "normal" Grixis Control). From now on I suppose I'll go back to Bridges main, and maybe a couple Ratchet Bomb in the side.
If you can Wrangle a Death's Shadow you can Roast it as well, I mentioned the more expensive option because it doesn't check power which can be an issue against those big monsters (Goyf also gets bigger than 4/5 most of the time in that deck).
Alright I goofed greatly, thought it read cmc 4, not power 4. Nvm then!
Wouldn't stealing Death's Shadow when over 13 life just kill it ?
Seems like a creative way to deal with it.
The best option is probably Kari Zev's Expertise as you can cast another spell for free.
There is also Roast to catch them before they get over 5/5.
Just necroing this since Death's Shadow is rising: I think Wrangle is THE answer to the matcup. 2 mana is welcoming, and 4 mana or less is hardly a drawback. I don't know if treason effects have any other use at the moment, but I suppose it can be sided in against other aggro decks to dump useless cards while having another cheap option to close games.
Stormbreath is pretty good against shadow decks, simple because they don't run fliers and we'll be able to hit in the last damage reasonably combinded with a bolt or two. Sucks if they got terminate tho, so you could swap a dragon with a Sarkhan, but I wouldn't say it's necessary. Blood Moons are good in the matchup so in total it's not that bad at all.
If you prefer 4 P&K instead I'd recommend 2-3 bridges in sb.
If anyone else has listened to the most recent Top Level Podcast, Mike Flores and Patrick Chapin discuss the new Reanimator decks that make use of Kari Zev's Expertise to cast both halves of Breaking and Entering, the key to avoiding that pretty impressive interaction is not putting any creatures into play, or make sure you have the mana to kill the creature in response to the Kari Zev's Expertise. Eternal Scourge naturally has protection against Kari-Zev's but don't run out a Pia and Kiran Nalaar with your 4 mana, wait for 5 mana and hold up a Skred or Bolt in case they target it.
Also Relic of Progenitus can't do anything about the 8 cards that get put into the graveyard from a fused Breaking//Entering, as the spell will get to resolve entirely before we obtain priority.
I knew someone would find a way to break the Expertises.. brilliant as it is, interactions like these creates unhealthy magic. Your points of Zev's.E is good, Scourge and walkers oughta get that hassle out of the way, but Sram's Expertise is another story. I doubt this will see much play as of now, as it pretty much is a variation of Goryo's Vengeance which seems less consistent. But if it would pick up pace, Bridge could be more important in sb.
Haven't had much practice against Ad Nauseam... would it also be valid to name Lotus Bloom as a preventative measure and lock them out with Blood Moon?
Sadly it can't name mana abilities, but Phyrexian Revoker can. I think the creature is a valid option since it can add a bit to the clock against AdNaus/Tron, played 2x in the board before.
However nowdays I find 1-of Needle more flexible since it can deal with manlands (notably Inkmoth), which the Revoker can't. Also some Tron players started using Bolt over Clasm, which is sided out way less making Revoker more vurnerable against them.
What do people think of processor assault over the singleton roast some people seem to be running? Seems ok with relics and anger of the gods. Hits Kor firewalker and Etched Champion. Also hoses some random suspended stuff.
Never thought about processing suspended cards.. now I really want to burn a Tasigur and fizzle their Ancestral Visions at the same time, hah!
I think assault is fine main for the flexibility offered by the "extra removal", but otherwise I feel pro-red is so rare that the consistency Roast offers is more valueable for sideboarded games. If we need to deal with something big turn 2 with assault, a relic MUST be played turn 1.
If Firewalkers were a thing then maybe, but only pro-red I've seen in ages is Auriok Champion, and Pyrite is by far the better fit if you struggle against those.
Unless you got T2 Mind Stone, it's a turn too slow to stop tron. Also, land destruction is a decent addition for some other matchups, so 3 mana got better game overall.
I think 2-3 rain and 1-2 crumble could be something if meta is full of tron/breach. Then you can somewhat consistently stop them turn 3 with moon/destruction, and crumble later to lock out their main wincon.
He does trigger on opposing fetches tho which might give him a sligh potential, but imo not in Skred.
Maybe a good sb threat against Tron since they often side out their Clasms post-board, but I suppose Rabblemaster still beats his clock and is more flexible as extra threats to pull in.
Anyway I'm on spellbombs so pro-red ain't an issue to me, but it would be an interesting alternative. Not a big fan of Kozilek's.
Regarding white splash in skred, it's just not going to go smooth with the setup of the deck. You'd need basic plains to keep white under a Moon, and fetches to get them consistently. Less snow-covered lands (fetches under moon subtracts further) makes skred much worse, and basic plains makes our built-around Koth worse. I've never been a fan of 3rd Scrying Sheets for the same reason, then again I'm a big fan of ramping out a Chandra from Koth's -2.
There's definately a good RW control deck out there, but it would probably be built around Nahiri than Koth with a completely different removal suite.
If the extert were 5 dmg, it would've been more interesting. Could've even had a Roast effect instead of non-dragon.
Death's Shadow is a matchup that can be manageable, but it hinges on the opponent not getting down 2 Shadows or having Temur Battle Rage before you can assemble a win through fliers, walkers or burn. You can grind pretty good against 1 shadow with either Reckoner, Parents, and especially Scourge, which might give you the time you need. However with their discard and tutors, they're more likely to progress their gameplan faster. Bridge is a very good tool against them, but won't win you the game outright as they pack Kolaghan's Commands. Overall I'd say it's a tough, but not a hopeless matchup.
UR Aggro? Is it even a deck anymore? At any rate it must be much more manageable without Probe to flip the Thing as quick as they did. There will still be games where they'll go turn 3 kill with Mutagenic Growths into battle rage, but I guess it's a rare nut draw at this point. A roast or two in your 75 should help if the matchup is too stressing.
Nowadays the meta demands fast pressure. Burn, Eldrazi and even Tron won't give the time to do too fancy stuff, but maybe 4 Mind Stones and 4 Solemn for the sake of consistency might get down something significant in time. I think Wurmcoil would be sweet atm, the big lifelink beats aggro and paths are less present. Fares better against Kolaghans than batterskull too.
However aggeession with Stormbreath as curve-topper is the safest option imo.
Shame that you had to face a situation like game 3 match 1, those are my biggest fear when playing in GPs. Glad the judges sorted out the injustice, sadly it doesn't always prove an easy task.
You've got a quite spicy and versatile list, I'm particulary interested in the mainboard Ratchet Bomb. How well does it perform as general removal? It's obviously great for 1-drops, but I can't help but feel it's a clunky and slow topdeck in a lot of other situations.
Yesterday I juggled my mind between two versions to compete with the meta. I expected about the same as last time: Some tron, some burn and lots of midrange. In the end I went with this:
2x Eternal Scourge
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Removal
4x Skred
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Roast
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Blood Moon
Lands
21x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Scrying Sheets
4x Dragon's Claw
4x Molten Rain
3x Shattering Spree
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Pithing Needle
1x Roast
Anyways, a short summary of my games:
Match 1: Abzan CoCo
Game 1 I burned his dudes and landed a Moon at some point and ended fairly quick with a Stormbreath.
Game 2 I landed an early moon and proceded with 2 Molten Rains, but he had sandbagged a forest from his opening hand making him able to play a couple of CoCos after I resolved my Koth. I burned dudes for days, but he found Pulse for my moon, turning on his Gavony Township which pumped his way to victory since he'd landed lots of dorks from CoCo.
Game 3 I mulled to 5, keeping a hand with a T2 moon. He was able to fetch a forest and land a turn 2 Wall of Roots, which kept him in the game for long. At some point he CoCo'd both Spike Feeder and Selfless Spirit at the same time, making me unable to deal with the combo as he Chorded for Archangel of Thune
1-2, feel like I should've won this one. In my defence an Anger at any time during game 2-3 would probably have won me the game.
Match 2: Grixis Control
Didn't play shadows, but had a couple Thing in the Ice. However with Probe gone I was able to rid of them in timely shape, making the matchup a walk in the park.
2-0
Match 3: Death's Shadow
This was one of the few who had a dedicated list to the creature, and I only won this barely. Game 1 I was on play with a hand of 3 lands, 2 SSG and Moon. I windmill-slammed a T1 moon and he scooped laughing. However at game 2 I wasn't able to sideboard anything else than -1 Moon for a Rain since I didn't know what he was on. I was somehow able to win anyway by chaining Koth into Chandra, treatening him from several sources. At the end I was at 1 health and were able to block his last attack with Scourge as he ran out of removal, dealing lethal to him in return with walkers.
2-0, with a big stroke of luck.
Match 4: Grixis Control
I was lucky enough to meet the only other Grixis player not featuring Shadow, which resulted into yet another easy win. This is what my list were built to beat.
2-0
Match 5: Titan Breach
Harsh, harsh. I actually won game 1 since he never found any Summoner's Pact or Terastodon to rid of my Moon, but that was lucky af. Games 2 and 3 went like this matchup usually do, there's not enough Moon or Rains to dampen their combo in timely matter. Again I hate myself for not bringing Bridges today.
1-2
Match 6: Grixis Delver w/Death's Shadow
One of the more interesting Shadow lists, featuring Delver, Snappy and Tasigur instead of Goyfs. Game 1 it took a long time before he played the Shadow (2, actually), so I probably wasted a Skred along the way which could've saved me. Eternal Scourge would theoretically fix this matchup, but once they land 2+ Shadows there's no chance without Bridge.
I was able to win game 2 with a savvy chain of Koth -> Chandra -> Roast on his Tasigur, ulting Chandra and being able to burn him while taking only 1 big hit from Shadow.
Game 3 he got down multiple shadows early, and dodged a Roast by bolting himself in response. Couple beats and I'm down.
1-2
3-3 total.
Usually not sad about a result like this, but I feel like I screwed myself with some bad metagaming this time. I didn't meet a lot of Shadow and only lost to 1 of them, but there's was a lot more in the room which I dodged. Didn't meet any Zoo, BGx or tron either which is what I suited for (alongside "normal" Grixis Control). From now on I suppose I'll go back to Bridges main, and maybe a couple Ratchet Bomb in the side.
Alright I goofed greatly, thought it read cmc 4, not power 4. Nvm then!
Anyone tested Kari Zev's Expertise at all yet?
Just necroing this since Death's Shadow is rising: I think Wrangle is THE answer to the matcup. 2 mana is welcoming, and 4 mana or less is hardly a drawback. I don't know if treason effects have any other use at the moment, but I suppose it can be sided in against other aggro decks to dump useless cards while having another cheap option to close games.
If you prefer 4 P&K instead I'd recommend 2-3 bridges in sb.
However nowdays I find 1-of Needle more flexible since it can deal with manlands (notably Inkmoth), which the Revoker can't. Also some Tron players started using Bolt over Clasm, which is sided out way less making Revoker more vurnerable against them.
I think assault is fine main for the flexibility offered by the "extra removal", but otherwise I feel pro-red is so rare that the consistency Roast offers is more valueable for sideboarded games. If we need to deal with something big turn 2 with assault, a relic MUST be played turn 1.
If Firewalkers were a thing then maybe, but only pro-red I've seen in ages is Auriok Champion, and Pyrite is by far the better fit if you struggle against those.
I think 2-3 rain and 1-2 crumble could be something if meta is full of tron/breach. Then you can somewhat consistently stop them turn 3 with moon/destruction, and crumble later to lock out their main wincon.