also i'd like to add that twin on occasion could play beatdown between pestermites, snapcaster, cliques and exarchs. it was a tempo deck with an integrated combo, post board it played more like a control deck in the matchups where the combo wasn't enough.
@jayjayhooks i saw the parallels between the decks given they're both bridge strategies but when you say it outright its pretty clear. just we attack the hand and the board more than the top of their library and win in a much cooler way!
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Dec 1, 2017what i meant is that with thoptersword is that for a turn or two before you go infinite with sieve or the opponent scoops you have an opportunity to block, attack their life total and occasionally go over their heads for lethal after a near fatal tezz ult, which i suppose gives us a bit of reach too. splinter twin isn't beatdown because you play it and just win, thoptersword is in the sensse that whilst it's going to run away with the game most of the time, you can run into stubborn guys who wont concede. or you can play a bunch of thopters, then they break the combo up but you still have 4 or 5 beaters so can try to race?Posted in: Control
i think its actually a pretty neat deck but like i said it suffers from leaning too heavily on one gameplan just like the combo version does. and that was one of the major points in a lot of articles- linear decks are easy to hate out, once you figure them out there's nothing new. whereas with bridge + the combo all of a sudden we can attack on multiple axes. 4 Aob, Big tezz, whir, Bridge, thoptersword and lili give our opponents so much to think about that they likely won't be able to deal with everything. its all about BALANCE. i think 2-3 bridge, 5 or 6 tutors (any combo of whir and seeker) and a 3/2 split of thoptersword feels quite nice. im gonna continue throwing ideas around and see what i can come up with, its just trying to figure the numbers out, i currently only own 2 lili though so what i end up with might not be optimal, right now i think 3 lili is probably right. once i figure out numbers i'm gonna rework the mana and see how it performs. granted (and i should have clarified) the manabase in meltiin's list is a shambles there are much better ways to build a manabase and i think between Reid duke's articles on building manabases and Karsten's analyses on coloured sources and land counts it shouldn't be that difficult to construct your own.
biggest point of them all would still be enjoy the deck and get to know the deck inside and out, at that point i think that whatever you're trying to do with tezz/thoptersword you can win a reasonable sized tournament. and i'd like to point out that 2017 has been a huge year for us. we've got tons of new content, new cards, state-winning decklists, mtgo winning decklists, a list that came 2nd at a small tournament in birmingham earlier in the year and to top it all off we're already on page 70 of a NEW primer. you guys are all really awesome and put so much into the deck. i think its easy to lose sight of that kinda stuff after a string of bad performances so just wanted to remind you all to keep on tezzing and keep making thopters and one day we will help take down a GP (or at least top 8)!
Dec 1, 2017so i went back and decided to read all the top strategy articles magic has to offer over the last couple days, who's the beatdown, thoughtseize you etc etc..Posted in: Control
its pretty cool how many times i read up on certain principles and meltiin's list covered it really well, i.e. search negating the bad topdecks that style of deck traditionally had, meaning our discard spells will rarely be dead blah blah blah. the point is the deck is incredibly well build. the only concerns i have are that it only has the one win con, tezz. some of the most successful decks historically have been successful because of their ability to play a the beatdown AND control. currently i see the two builds are as follows: heavy combo with a slight secondary focus on bridge and tezz ult, folds to stony post board. massive redundancy. and a dedicated tezz control deck with a certain degree of inevitability.
the nature of thoptersword means we can count it as a beatdown plan, and meltiin's list is designed to control the opponent as much as possible and have the games go long. recently we've been saying we do a number of things well but nothing great and talking as though thats an issue, i believe we're approaching the deck from the wrong angle.... "jack of all trades but master of none"?, the complete saying ends with "but better than a master at one"!
the combo builds lean so heavily on one aspect that in itself isnt an instant win and folds to hate that the secondary plan is somewhat of an afterthought. the other list focuses more on control but doesnt have any of the phenomenal late game inevitability that thoptersword provides. so i think we need to go a bit more 50/50 on these strategies. currently my idea is to play an infinite combo game 1 and move to a prison/control strategy with a toolbox style approach games 2 and 3 and win with tezz ult. this is all theorycrafting right now but watching the content we have available to us its clear to see the combo wins games. any fair deck cannot handle it. but its also clear that meltiin's list is powerful with all the results its putting up, and as games naturally go longer we become more and more likely to draw any of our combo/tutor spells and runaway with the game, thus making the transition between control and beatdown naturally. and if we can stick the combo post board early and ride it to victory then great, but i believe relying less on the combo is the way to go. there are a vast array of artifacts in the modern card pool, it shouldn't be too hard to find a handful that can come together to shut down the majority of strategies modern can offer up..
in regards to the abysmal combo matchups... pithing needle/spyglass, trinisphere, lodestone golem, witchbane orb, more discard etc all lock up the opponent long enough for us to ult tezz or ride the remaining combo pieces to victory.
i still think whir is too powerful not to play, my main issue currently is getting the numbers of tutors, mana rocks and control just right in the main. i'll keep you guys posted but i feel like playing a tezz deck featuring thoptersword rather than a thoptersword deck playing tezz is currently more resilient than the all-in combo version, has better inevitability than meltiin's list, and to be honest just seems like way more fun than the (almost) linear combo deck we've been leaning towards.
Nov 26, 2017big tezz is a house. im considering adding a second copy to my list. i would like to still be playing at least a 2/1 split of thoptersword. but tezz ult is indeed an awesome way to win games if we can get the lock on. on top of thoptersword i think not playing whir at all is wrong. its modern's answer to transmute artifact and i think 2 wont be backbreaking in terms of manabase constraints. other than that its a super cool list but so different to where we have been heading. going forward is this the kind of list people will be playing?Posted in: Control
Edit: so you know how a few of us have mentioned transformative sideboards a little before? im thinking perhaps siding combo out and siding into more bridge, damnation, lili and tezz to follow that plan G2 and 3. all of a sudden their stony silences are useless and we just strip their resources and sit behind bridge until tez can do his thing?
Nov 19, 2017same list from a few days back finished 16th in a modern challenge this weekend: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-19Posted in: Control
is this list better suited in the current meta? honestly can't see myself dropping whir and i believe the turbo package is just the best way to play a whir deck... damnation, lili and bridges 3 and 4 seem like the big adjustments i'd make without wanting to change the deck too much. maybe take push out for some number of thoughtseize. unsure what to make of the temples... lots of lands that come in tapped, might have hurt him in a couple games?
if i wanted to play this kind of list i'd drop some number of brutalities, damnation, and lili, plus the IoK to play 2/3 chalice and 2 whirs. i feel like playing such a high curve and IoK as the only one drop is almost asking to just play chalices instead. and lands that dont come in tapped so you can actually cast your spells when you want to! Thoughtseize just seems better if you want discard though, being able to take a titan, scapeshift, delve fatty, thought knot or karn just seems too good. also find it weird there's no sieve or KCI in the 75. a one-of would be easy to slot in, you dont need 4 LoTV!!!
Got some casual games in this weekend and seeker won me games whenever he came down, finding bridge or missing combo piece immediately is pretty big, tempted to try 2 but dont want to saturate the deck with so many high CMC cards. casting seeker turn 3 off the back of a pentad prism is awesome though. other takeaways: bogles is annoying.
Nov 14, 2017i've always been of the opinion that eldrazi tron was the best deck in the format and death's shadow happened to have a decent matchup against it which is part of what made it so popular, but it also had a good win rate across the board. now people have learned how to deal with shadow decks for the most part and we're seeing a rise in e-tron and Gx tron. now, since lantern is having success with MB witchbane orb i think we should evaluate how much we care about G1s against tron and valakut decks. still want to test trinisphere and lodestone golem at some point, i feel like switching into a more hardcore prison deck might be a decent gameplan. at least in theory. adding a skite/extra jar into the equation too we might stand a chance of being a successful all out prison deck g2 and 3? interesting convo though, looking forward to where this will take us!Posted in: Control
Oct 25, 2017not sure if you guys have seen the list but this top 8'd a tournament a few days ago. looks super outdated but a couple things stand out to me... 1) notion thief, ive not seen it mentioned previously? and 2) torment of hailfire.Posted in: Control
has anyone got any experience playing these cards at all?
edit: sorry, forgot to paste the link! http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17288&d=306892&f=MO
Oct 21, 2017i think search isnt right for this deck. sure once it flips its basically a repeatable crane that can also tap to make thopters/cast our whirs. honestly i feel like its the same spot as big tezz, for those of us that are starting to play him. big tezz just straight tutors for whatever we need and can threaten lethal with his ult, plus is hard to kill coming in at 4 loyalty. search is open to all kinda of enchantment removal and at 3 mana it's pretty awkward, if we havent found the combo or a bridge by the time it flips and we can afford to sink 3 mana into it we're likely just going to lose the game, otherwise i'd rather spend my mana casting brutalities, push's, bridges and whirs.Posted in: Control
edit: in a crane build it could be pretty useful. one playing discard and a bunch of xx cmc artifacts? since filtering effects work better with stuff like explosives and chalices? i'd still only want to play 2 copies to the playset of cranes as it seems clunky and slow but maybe it gives that version of the deck some added consistency?
Oct 19, 2017@shadowgripper hey zac, good to see you're still representing for tezz! i like the list, i feel its where we ought to be, if you have time could you give us a run down of matchups and your logic behind some of your sideboard choices i.e. the metamorph, only 1 decay, and how has thopter spy network been?Posted in: Control
how has seeker been for you? im super psyched about the PW rule letting us play both tezz's!
Oct 11, 2017i think a one of seeker would be nice. schemer seemed cool but not high impact enough to warrant playing it, maybe in a different sort of tezz build it could work, maybe one that ramps a little more into a higher top end with stuff like nicol bolas/ugin, wurmcoil and maybe even blightsteel colossus? dont really see it working but could be a fun casual deckPosted in: Control
Oct 5, 2017new idea... in times where we are badly positioned, could we forego the combo for a more all-in prison build winning with 5/5 beats and tezz ult?? we can play seeker alongside AoB now and we have trophy mage to fetch bridge, crucible, quicksilver, and trinisphere. there's plenty of other artifacts to be fetching up (bottled cloister, witchbane orb, chalice) and i think we could add some hangarbacks and ballista's to gum up the board with the help of trinket/trophy mages and cranes. some fatal push's and brutalities for removal/discard. completely different build but it's still tezzerator. crucible lock and quicksilver fountain slot into this sort of build much more easily and playing only 1 or 2 copies of whir means we can afford more GQ/field of ruin?Posted in: Control
more of an old school build but i think there could be some merit to playing this kind of prison style build. would need some protection from skite/welding jar too. all theory crafting right now but i might draft a list up if someone would be willing to test it? i dont really have the time :/
Oct 4, 2017when i get paid im gonna buy 3 copies of field of ruin, want to test them with fatal push and opt in place of SV and play crucible again. with opt we dont have to play GQ and hold 1 mana open, we can hold 2 mana open, see what they do, push/opt as appropriate, blow up a land, fetch a basic and continue to push/opt as appropriate. seems like a decent line of play, i already play 4 basics in my list, might try to find room for 1 more so we have plenty to be fetching, which consequently would give us more mana for thopters/time sieve.Posted in: Control
has any of this been tested yet? been lurking but havent kept up with stuff properly the last few weeks, mostly just skim reading when i get a chance.
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