Just had an intriguing thought. Could just be janky nonsense but... trinisphere and metallic rebuke? Obviously holding onto counterspells makes bridge worse but if were basically limiting our opponents to one spell per turn then countering that spell would effectively be a timewalk. Howevee that sort of play gets progressively worse in the late game, perhaps playing crucible and ghost quarter could remedy that? And possibly thorn of amethyst too? Game 1 combo plus bridge is super effective against most of the field then games 2 and 3 we cut on combo and any dead cards in favour of damnations and more lock cards. Welding jar and a skite for back up. Blanks their stony silences and makes their grudges and other hate worse when facing down a trinisphere.
Playing thorn of amethyst would be pretty annoying for us too so big tezz would probably be better than whir here since he's repeatable. And his plus ability is more effective if we're playing more mana rocks since we can untap to pay the taxes for tsphere, thorns and improvise. Could this be something or too janky.
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Dec 4, 2017Also @racing089 i like the idea of tackling the deck from a legacy standpoint. Ive been looking at that idea a lot recently too. I concluded that chalice on 1 doesnt have nearly as much impact in modern as in legacy. Chalice on 2 hurts us but we can also play trinisphere main to slow our opponent down and cheat our 2cmc cards into play using whir/big tezz. eldrazi tron and rw prison both seem to make chalice work so why not tezz? The other issue would be a lack of sol lands to power out chalice turn 1.Posted in: Control
Despite all the discrepencies we'd have to deal with i think it can be done. Considering the success of death and taxes builds and GDS (due to it feeling like legacy delver) have shown that legacy ports can work and are still very potent decks even in the modern metagame.
Dec 3, 2017take out the spellbomb and any other artifact and move those tezz's to the main and now we're talking! list looks awesome. the two decks are becoming quite similar. its interesting. lantern definitely gets better use out of bridge being able to dump their hand so easily, which is where brutality shines for us because we dont mind pitching sword. the control approach out the board is what i've been suggesting for this deck, but its difficult to get the balance just right on that, especially with only 15 slots.Posted in: Control
Dec 2, 2017ive been goldfishing the build a little today with some changes, including: -2 lili, +2 thoughtseize, -1 ballista, -2 relic for 2/1 thoptersword, -1 seeker, +1 whir, 3 prism instead of talismans (allows turn 3 seeker!!!! turn 3 witchbane orb, turn 3 bridge, turn 3 combo piece or lock piece). seeker is a unit, think i might want 3, i'm even considering going up to 4 seeker and 4 prism but this might dilute the rest of the deck too much. 1 whir still feels nice. falling more towards having whir as extra seekers rather than seekers as extra whirs.Posted in: Control
the deck has no issues finding anything to the point where going infinite with sieve on a 2/1 split of thoptersword still feels doable (if i wanted to do that i'd probably cut the 2nd needle). between brutality, 5 discard spells, 2 lili and 2 damnation the deck just chews up opponents resources and spits them back out, whatever's left usually waits behind bridge. 2 needles seem nice but like i say i could see myself cutting one for a time sieve. having the combo just makes it a little easier to get to 10 artifacts with AoB and i feel like ballista was mostly just a mana sink/extra removal, the combo does effectively the same thing but we can tutor for it. currently have 2 baubles keeping SfA seats warm while I wait for them, but i like the idea of keeping 1 main if i can find room.
this build just feels so much neater than trying to jam a combo into every game then have your game plan collapse when they cast stony silence, you spend so much time trying to find a decay or get to plan b that you lose tempo while they just carry on playing their game. the combo may be weak in the current meta anyway but im not using it to win games, mostly just to generate a few artifacts for tezz. Im getting close to being happy with numbers so will test hopefully in the next few days, maybe next weekend if i dont get a chance before then. i'll probably spend tomorrow building my sideboard
Dec 1, 2017also i'd like to add that twin on occasion could play beatdown between pestermites, snapcaster, cliques and exarchs. it was a tempo deck with an integrated combo, post board it played more like a control deck in the matchups where the combo wasn't enough.Posted in: Control
@jayjayhooks i saw the parallels between the decks given they're both bridge strategies but when you say it outright its pretty clear. just we attack the hand and the board more than the top of their library and win in a much cooler way!
Dec 1, 2017what i meant is that with thoptersword is that for a turn or two before you go infinite with sieve or the opponent scoops you have an opportunity to block, attack their life total and occasionally go over their heads for lethal after a near fatal tezz ult, which i suppose gives us a bit of reach too. splinter twin isn't beatdown because you play it and just win, thoptersword is in the sensse that whilst it's going to run away with the game most of the time, you can run into stubborn guys who wont concede. or you can play a bunch of thopters, then they break the combo up but you still have 4 or 5 beaters so can try to race?Posted in: Control
i think its actually a pretty neat deck but like i said it suffers from leaning too heavily on one gameplan just like the combo version does. and that was one of the major points in a lot of articles- linear decks are easy to hate out, once you figure them out there's nothing new. whereas with bridge + the combo all of a sudden we can attack on multiple axes. 4 Aob, Big tezz, whir, Bridge, thoptersword and lili give our opponents so much to think about that they likely won't be able to deal with everything. its all about BALANCE. i think 2-3 bridge, 5 or 6 tutors (any combo of whir and seeker) and a 3/2 split of thoptersword feels quite nice. im gonna continue throwing ideas around and see what i can come up with, its just trying to figure the numbers out, i currently only own 2 lili though so what i end up with might not be optimal, right now i think 3 lili is probably right. once i figure out numbers i'm gonna rework the mana and see how it performs. granted (and i should have clarified) the manabase in meltiin's list is a shambles there are much better ways to build a manabase and i think between Reid duke's articles on building manabases and Karsten's analyses on coloured sources and land counts it shouldn't be that difficult to construct your own.
biggest point of them all would still be enjoy the deck and get to know the deck inside and out, at that point i think that whatever you're trying to do with tezz/thoptersword you can win a reasonable sized tournament. and i'd like to point out that 2017 has been a huge year for us. we've got tons of new content, new cards, state-winning decklists, mtgo winning decklists, a list that came 2nd at a small tournament in birmingham earlier in the year and to top it all off we're already on page 70 of a NEW primer. you guys are all really awesome and put so much into the deck. i think its easy to lose sight of that kinda stuff after a string of bad performances so just wanted to remind you all to keep on tezzing and keep making thopters and one day we will help take down a GP (or at least top 8)!
Dec 1, 2017so i went back and decided to read all the top strategy articles magic has to offer over the last couple days, who's the beatdown, thoughtseize you etc etc..Posted in: Control
its pretty cool how many times i read up on certain principles and meltiin's list covered it really well, i.e. search negating the bad topdecks that style of deck traditionally had, meaning our discard spells will rarely be dead blah blah blah. the point is the deck is incredibly well build. the only concerns i have are that it only has the one win con, tezz. some of the most successful decks historically have been successful because of their ability to play a the beatdown AND control. currently i see the two builds are as follows: heavy combo with a slight secondary focus on bridge and tezz ult, folds to stony post board. massive redundancy. and a dedicated tezz control deck with a certain degree of inevitability.
the nature of thoptersword means we can count it as a beatdown plan, and meltiin's list is designed to control the opponent as much as possible and have the games go long. recently we've been saying we do a number of things well but nothing great and talking as though thats an issue, i believe we're approaching the deck from the wrong angle.... "jack of all trades but master of none"?, the complete saying ends with "but better than a master at one"!
the combo builds lean so heavily on one aspect that in itself isnt an instant win and folds to hate that the secondary plan is somewhat of an afterthought. the other list focuses more on control but doesnt have any of the phenomenal late game inevitability that thoptersword provides. so i think we need to go a bit more 50/50 on these strategies. currently my idea is to play an infinite combo game 1 and move to a prison/control strategy with a toolbox style approach games 2 and 3 and win with tezz ult. this is all theorycrafting right now but watching the content we have available to us its clear to see the combo wins games. any fair deck cannot handle it. but its also clear that meltiin's list is powerful with all the results its putting up, and as games naturally go longer we become more and more likely to draw any of our combo/tutor spells and runaway with the game, thus making the transition between control and beatdown naturally. and if we can stick the combo post board early and ride it to victory then great, but i believe relying less on the combo is the way to go. there are a vast array of artifacts in the modern card pool, it shouldn't be too hard to find a handful that can come together to shut down the majority of strategies modern can offer up..
in regards to the abysmal combo matchups... pithing needle/spyglass, trinisphere, lodestone golem, witchbane orb, more discard etc all lock up the opponent long enough for us to ult tezz or ride the remaining combo pieces to victory.
i still think whir is too powerful not to play, my main issue currently is getting the numbers of tutors, mana rocks and control just right in the main. i'll keep you guys posted but i feel like playing a tezz deck featuring thoptersword rather than a thoptersword deck playing tezz is currently more resilient than the all-in combo version, has better inevitability than meltiin's list, and to be honest just seems like way more fun than the (almost) linear combo deck we've been leaning towards.
Nov 26, 2017big tezz is a house. im considering adding a second copy to my list. i would like to still be playing at least a 2/1 split of thoptersword. but tezz ult is indeed an awesome way to win games if we can get the lock on. on top of thoptersword i think not playing whir at all is wrong. its modern's answer to transmute artifact and i think 2 wont be backbreaking in terms of manabase constraints. other than that its a super cool list but so different to where we have been heading. going forward is this the kind of list people will be playing?Posted in: Control
Edit: so you know how a few of us have mentioned transformative sideboards a little before? im thinking perhaps siding combo out and siding into more bridge, damnation, lili and tezz to follow that plan G2 and 3. all of a sudden their stony silences are useless and we just strip their resources and sit behind bridge until tez can do his thing?
Nov 19, 2017same list from a few days back finished 16th in a modern challenge this weekend: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-19Posted in: Control
is this list better suited in the current meta? honestly can't see myself dropping whir and i believe the turbo package is just the best way to play a whir deck... damnation, lili and bridges 3 and 4 seem like the big adjustments i'd make without wanting to change the deck too much. maybe take push out for some number of thoughtseize. unsure what to make of the temples... lots of lands that come in tapped, might have hurt him in a couple games?
if i wanted to play this kind of list i'd drop some number of brutalities, damnation, and lili, plus the IoK to play 2/3 chalice and 2 whirs. i feel like playing such a high curve and IoK as the only one drop is almost asking to just play chalices instead. and lands that dont come in tapped so you can actually cast your spells when you want to! Thoughtseize just seems better if you want discard though, being able to take a titan, scapeshift, delve fatty, thought knot or karn just seems too good. also find it weird there's no sieve or KCI in the 75. a one-of would be easy to slot in, you dont need 4 LoTV!!!
Got some casual games in this weekend and seeker won me games whenever he came down, finding bridge or missing combo piece immediately is pretty big, tempted to try 2 but dont want to saturate the deck with so many high CMC cards. casting seeker turn 3 off the back of a pentad prism is awesome though. other takeaways: bogles is annoying.
Nov 14, 2017i've always been of the opinion that eldrazi tron was the best deck in the format and death's shadow happened to have a decent matchup against it which is part of what made it so popular, but it also had a good win rate across the board. now people have learned how to deal with shadow decks for the most part and we're seeing a rise in e-tron and Gx tron. now, since lantern is having success with MB witchbane orb i think we should evaluate how much we care about G1s against tron and valakut decks. still want to test trinisphere and lodestone golem at some point, i feel like switching into a more hardcore prison deck might be a decent gameplan. at least in theory. adding a skite/extra jar into the equation too we might stand a chance of being a successful all out prison deck g2 and 3? interesting convo though, looking forward to where this will take us!Posted in: Control
Oct 25, 2017not sure if you guys have seen the list but this top 8'd a tournament a few days ago. looks super outdated but a couple things stand out to me... 1) notion thief, ive not seen it mentioned previously? and 2) torment of hailfire.Posted in: Control
has anyone got any experience playing these cards at all?
edit: sorry, forgot to paste the link! http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17288&d=306892&f=MO
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