Off the top of my head, it looks like Bedlam Reveler and Ancestral Vision shouldn't be played in the same list together. You want to be filling up your graveyard with instants and sorceries faster, so suspend wouldn't interact well with it. Reveler should be played with 7-8 cantrips + some number of remands and possibly cryptic to get the full effect.
I'm pretty new to the deck, but I like your use of Collective Brutality. I'm hesitant about Chaos Reveler since he is a no-bo with other delver creatures. Elder Deep-Fiend is also intriguing, but seems win-more. Here is my take on the deck using EMN:
I like Bloodghast over Delver of Secrets since he synergies well with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Faithless Looting, and now Collective Brutality. He is very difficult for control to deal with, puts many creatures into bolt range if they decide to block, and pairs well with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. The downside is that it makes the deck more vulnerable to graveyard hate. Faithless looting is used over Thought Scour, since it can cheat in Bloodghast and provides better card selection (without the cantrip, but there's not card disadvantage if you do discard Bloodghast).
I want to go up to 2 Collective Brutality's, but I'm not sure what to cut at this point.
This new Haunted Dead card seems like a great substitute for Stitchwing Skaab, giving all the same benefits of triggering Amalgam, but helps to keep the deck in Jund colors.
Well here's something to look forward to from the new set. This is from an article recently published by wizards about tribal decks in standard:
"There are plenty of inexpensive Vampires to fill a curve and go crazy with madness. Unfortunately, Vampires doesn't have the lord or lords that it needs to be a viable deck. It's no secret that Vampire Nocturnus was responsible for most Vampiric success in Standard a few years ago. Drana, Liberator of Malakir and Olivia, Mobilized for War are both pretty powerful, but they don't have an immediate impact on the game when they hit the battlefield. What the deck really needs is a way to grant big power bonuses or haste to the team."
If Wizards themselves are talking about Vampires needing some lords, I will bet that we'll see at least 1 or 2 dedicated ones in Eldrich Moon.
Here are the slots that I don't plan on changing with the next set coming out:
There are about 9 mainboard flex slots I've found. It's hard to improve upon the other cards above. I haven't found many ways to improve upon the sideboard either, but the burn match is still about 40%-pre and 50%-post board.
I've been testing a list similar to @Gus07's for the past few weeks on Xmage and in paper. It seems very solid so far with many matchups being 50-50 or better. I have yet to find a MU that feels unwinnable. Here is the list:
Here is the breakdown of decks I've played so far.
Scoreboard: 15-4-0
Decks beat: Primal Command, RW Prison, Jund, Abzan, Naya Burn, Zoo, UB Thopters, U Tron, Affinity, GW Midrange, GR Land Destruction, RG Tron, B Tron
Decks lost: GW Tokens, Mono Red Burn, Boros Burn, Ad Nauseum
The burn MU seems good in theory, with 8 post-board lifelinkers, but it still hasn't been easy. What I've found so far is that the deck plays like Jund, but with a better clock and less controlling elements. 8 lords feels like a good number. Stromkirk is amazing in the aggro MU, and Nocturnus can steal wins easily. Indulgent aristocrat is still great, but he only really shines in grindy games and burn. I'm hoping there is at least 1 more lord that will be printed in the next set to replace 1 of the Indulgents. Blood moon really pushes this deck into the competitive range, it is definitely a must for the sideboard.
Also none of the "math" that was quoted actually checks out. You don't run Serum Visions so that you can cut lands. You run SV to help find cards you need. Sometimes land, sometimes spells. It doesn't have a land cutting effect. And as was already said in Nahiri builds(and SV) builds having MORe land is better because you can loot them away or scry them away. Having too few lands, for example no blue source or your SV gets Thoughtseized, IOK, etc. Is unnecessarily risky.
You actually can cut a land for each playset of cantrips that you run, even if that is not why they are used. I did a pretty in-depth analysis of how Serum Visions changes your land drop percentage. Here was what the result:
"Running 3 Serum Visions increases your percent chance of hitting land drops 3-4 on time by a more than 4-5%. A full playset of remand increases your chances by about 4%. Each land increases this percentage by 3-4%."
I did it for 3 Serum Visions in a deck, but you can guess what 4 does. The full write-up is in the UWR Midrange primer on page 192.
Has anyone played both the Nahiri and Kiki-control versions of the deck? They both seem to be some of the most powerful versions of Jeskai control, but what are the biggest differences in match-ups?
Hey, if Nahiri ends up being the best version of Mardu, that's all the better. This archtype is still evolving. Saying that all other builds are here to "stubbornly force Mardu" isn't true though. Most versions I see posted here are based on proven results.
When I said that people come here to find the best version of Mardu, Nahiri builds still count towards that. I just like to trust what pro players.
That's fair. But I think people are in this thread because they want to know what the best versions of Mardu that exist are. If a pro magic player who is known for innovative and great magic dismisses something, there is probably a reason why.
I don't know if using Nahiri is the direction Mardu decks want to be going. Blue runs it because they need inevitability, something that Mardu never had issues with.
"You can't target Emrakul with Resto" This isn't actually true, when Restoration Angels bounce is put on the stack, Restoration Angel is a Permanent, and no longer a spell. Thus it can target Emrakul.
You are probably right about the lands, dropping a Painful Truths is easily done. I kind of like the idea of Mentor here because all we will be casting pretty much is Noncreature spells which will trigger him and gum up the board and Wall of Omen could be good yes, but it doesn't really do much other then draw a card go, if i'd run walls i'd want 4, not 2.
This list is really rough and something I just threw together at the spot so not tested yet. I was thinking Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim could be cute here for when you cheat Emrakul in, if you can't flicker it, you can sac it and reshuffle your graveyard back in and gain 15 life, she's also a solid blocker and easier on the curve.
I'll see if I can spare some time to test the list tomorrow.
Could 23 lands be enough or would it really require 24?
You can't target Emrakul with Resto, since it has protection from colored spells. Ayli doesn't target, so that synergy would work, but I don't know if it is worth it. If you've played an Emrakul, you've already won at that point.
At less that 24 lands, you'll have a less than 60% chance of playing Nahiri by turn 4. If you look at any of the major lists floating around with her, they run 25 lands since the deck hinges on playing her on time. I don't think there is any problem with running 2 walls, at least then you have some good flicker targets.
Might try something like this, seems fun.
Monastery Mentor could be something else like finks, Kalitas or Wall but I kind of like the different angles we got going here, while Resto doesn't have any good blink target unless you side Finks, it's still a good beater and can obviously save your stuff.
Mind you that you can blink your Emrakul after attacking to keep it in play as well.
22 lands could be rough, but with Nahiris filtering you should be fine.
This looks incredibly top heavy for 22 lands. I think you are better off dropping the mentors and adding in 2 more lands. You still have to get to 4 mana reliably to start filtering with Nahiri. At 22 lands, you only have a 54% chance of doing this by turn 4 on the play, and 64% chance on the draw. Since your deck focuses on landing Nahiri reliably, I wouldn't leave the odds of playing her on turn 4 to a coin flip. If you go up to 24 land, those odds increase to 63% and 73%. Soulfire Grand Master rewards you for having more lands in your deck, while Mentor does not. Since you are running the kiki-resto package, you could even consider dropping Painful Truths for Wall of Omens.
That's a neat list. Definitely on the control side of the spectrum whereas my build is more toward the aggro. It has very few wincons, even for control. Did you ever feel like you wanted more threats?
I know Legacy isn't modern, but in my Legacy BW smallpox deck I run 4 Urborg and 3 Flagstones. Same with my Modern Mardu PW control deck. You have a lot to gain the more often you can go turn 2 Flagstones and Urborg/other black filter into Smallpox taking a creature and land off your opponents side of the field.
That does make sense, thanks for the tip. Do you mind posting your Mardu list? I'm curious of how you configure your mana base.
I'm pretty new to the deck, but I like your use of Collective Brutality. I'm hesitant about Chaos Reveler since he is a no-bo with other delver creatures. Elder Deep-Fiend is also intriguing, but seems win-more. Here is my take on the deck using EMN:
4x Bloodghast
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells (24)
4x Faithless Looting
2x Serum Visions
1x Dreadbore
1x Murderous Cut
2x Terminate
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Mana Leak
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Collective Bruality
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Island
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
1x Watery Grave
1x Steam Vents
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Countersquall
1x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kozilek's Return
2x Molten Rain
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Slaughter Games
1x Tribute to Hunger
1x Vandalblast
1x Vendilion Clique
I like Bloodghast over Delver of Secrets since he synergies well with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Faithless Looting, and now Collective Brutality. He is very difficult for control to deal with, puts many creatures into bolt range if they decide to block, and pairs well with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. The downside is that it makes the deck more vulnerable to graveyard hate. Faithless looting is used over Thought Scour, since it can cheat in Bloodghast and provides better card selection (without the cantrip, but there's not card disadvantage if you do discard Bloodghast).
I want to go up to 2 Collective Brutality's, but I'm not sure what to cut at this point.
Take a look: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/4qfxil/haunted_dead_and_ingenious_skaab/
"There are plenty of inexpensive Vampires to fill a curve and go crazy with madness. Unfortunately, Vampires doesn't have the lord or lords that it needs to be a viable deck. It's no secret that Vampire Nocturnus was responsible for most Vampiric success in Standard a few years ago. Drana, Liberator of Malakir and Olivia, Mobilized for War are both pretty powerful, but they don't have an immediate impact on the game when they hit the battlefield. What the deck really needs is a way to grant big power bonuses or haste to the team."
If Wizards themselves are talking about Vampires needing some lords, I will bet that we'll see at least 1 or 2 dedicated ones in Eldrich Moon.
Here are the slots that I don't plan on changing with the next set coming out:
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Bloodghast
3x Stromkirk Captain
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Indulgent Aristocrat
3x Terminate
2x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Blood Moon
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Duress
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Olivia Voldaren
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Shatterstorm
1x Slaughter Games
3x Vampire Nighthawk
There are about 9 mainboard flex slots I've found. It's hard to improve upon the other cards above. I haven't found many ways to improve upon the sideboard either, but the burn match is still about 40%-pre and 50%-post board.
3x Asylum Visitor
2x Vampire Nocturnus
3x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Bloodghast
3x Stromkirk Captain
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Indulgent Aristocrat
Instants/Soceries: 17
1x Dreadbore
2x Faithless Looting
3x Terminate
2x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
6x Swamp
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Polluted Delta
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Mutavault
3x Blood Moon
1x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Duress
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Olivia Voldaren
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Shatterstorm
1x Slaughter Games
3x Vampire Nighthawk
Here is the breakdown of decks I've played so far.
Scoreboard: 15-4-0
Decks beat: Primal Command, RW Prison, Jund, Abzan, Naya Burn, Zoo, UB Thopters, U Tron, Affinity, GW Midrange, GR Land Destruction, RG Tron, B Tron
Decks lost: GW Tokens, Mono Red Burn, Boros Burn, Ad Nauseum
The burn MU seems good in theory, with 8 post-board lifelinkers, but it still hasn't been easy. What I've found so far is that the deck plays like Jund, but with a better clock and less controlling elements. 8 lords feels like a good number. Stromkirk is amazing in the aggro MU, and Nocturnus can steal wins easily. Indulgent aristocrat is still great, but he only really shines in grindy games and burn. I'm hoping there is at least 1 more lord that will be printed in the next set to replace 1 of the Indulgents. Blood moon really pushes this deck into the competitive range, it is definitely a must for the sideboard.
You actually can cut a land for each playset of cantrips that you run, even if that is not why they are used. I did a pretty in-depth analysis of how Serum Visions changes your land drop percentage. Here was what the result:
"Running 3 Serum Visions increases your percent chance of hitting land drops 3-4 on time by a more than 4-5%. A full playset of remand increases your chances by about 4%. Each land increases this percentage by 3-4%."
I did it for 3 Serum Visions in a deck, but you can guess what 4 does. The full write-up is in the UWR Midrange primer on page 192.
When I said that people come here to find the best version of Mardu, Nahiri builds still count towards that. I just like to trust what pro players.
I don't know if using Nahiri is the direction Mardu decks want to be going. Blue runs it because they need inevitability, something that Mardu never had issues with.
Oh, right, just like oblivion ring. My mistake.
You can't target Emrakul with Resto, since it has protection from colored spells. Ayli doesn't target, so that synergy would work, but I don't know if it is worth it. If you've played an Emrakul, you've already won at that point.
At less that 24 lands, you'll have a less than 60% chance of playing Nahiri by turn 4. If you look at any of the major lists floating around with her, they run 25 lands since the deck hinges on playing her on time. I don't think there is any problem with running 2 walls, at least then you have some good flicker targets.
This looks incredibly top heavy for 22 lands. I think you are better off dropping the mentors and adding in 2 more lands. You still have to get to 4 mana reliably to start filtering with Nahiri. At 22 lands, you only have a 54% chance of doing this by turn 4 on the play, and 64% chance on the draw. Since your deck focuses on landing Nahiri reliably, I wouldn't leave the odds of playing her on turn 4 to a coin flip. If you go up to 24 land, those odds increase to 63% and 73%. Soulfire Grand Master rewards you for having more lands in your deck, while Mentor does not. Since you are running the kiki-resto package, you could even consider dropping Painful Truths for Wall of Omens.
That's a neat list. Definitely on the control side of the spectrum whereas my build is more toward the aggro. It has very few wincons, even for control. Did you ever feel like you wanted more threats?
That does make sense, thanks for the tip. Do you mind posting your Mardu list? I'm curious of how you configure your mana base.