I've been testing with the list that got 6th at SCG Milwaukee, and I've been quite impressed with Spell Queller's performance. The only changes I've made so far are trimming the Cavern for an extra Snare, and switching the Aven Mindcensor for a Lavamancer. I like 23 lands in the deck since there are only 2 four-drops.
I want to put a resilient threat in the sideboard for the GBx MU, but haven't settled on one yet. What are people's preferences these days on Keranos, Sphinxs Rev, or Elsepth?
I run Bedlam Reveler in my build, so I'm trying to find the second best alternative to Rest in Peace. What are people's thoughts on Nihil Spellbomb verses Hallowed Moonlight? I've tested with Spellbomb, but it seems that Moonlight is more versatile.
Wasteland stranger can put the card back exiled with tidehollow sculler, which means they don't get the card back after sculler dies. Path, anguished unmaking, and Nahiri can also exile cards for strangler.
Helix, vents, and vault make up for life loss due to the manabase and anguished unmaking/thoughtseize
Resto angel can blink any of the other creature for 341 effects.
Souls and Emrakul can be discarded to lily and Nahiri.
My goal with this deck was to make a deck where the cards are good on their own and also have good synergy. The hope is to answer everything and win with Nahiri or creatures/burn.
I think you've accomplished your goal, but made one, big, glaring error... You have 70 cards mainboard! That dramatically increased variance in your games. Your 4-of's will feel more like 3-of's (3.4) in a deck like this. You might want to choose between the combo or midrange threats, then cut 10 cards out of the deck.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. Helix vs Jund is a good call and taking out discard in both makes sense. I am trying to hone my sideboard game for the SCG Open in Milwaukee next month.
This may seem like an obvious question, but what's your plan for Affinity? It seems like we want to take out TS for sure, but how about Inquisition? Do we keep it in because it's the only reliable answer to Etched Champion?
I've updated my Midrange/Pyro list with Kaladesh and I'm pretty excited about Inspiring Vantage, especially with the slghtly lower curve in my current build. I'm back to Abbot of Keral Keep after ages of not playing the card because I believe it's the strongest catch-all late-game-slot card you can be playing in this pretty damn fast and unpredictable meta and there's way too many match-ups where i don't want to be caught with 4-mana planeswalkers or similar nonsense in hand. Simply slamming Abbot on 2 against linear decks allows you to more consistently establish an actual clock and Prowess is no joke.
That list looks solid. I've been back on Abbot myself. Have you tried running some number of Collective Brutality over one or two Helix?
I had a general question - what do people take out against Junk/Junk? It seems that both discard and Helix are mediocre, but which one's worse?
new additions have been:
+1 Call the Bloodline: Another madness enabler that creates bodies and vampires for condemned. It' s also more difficult to get rid of it because being an enchantment isalways good.
+3 Stromkirk Noble instead of bloodshoaked champion: Today are lot of humans here and there (noble hierarch, champion of the parish, grim flayer,....) and at least can block if needed. Also turn 1 this and turn 2 condemned assures that probably you are going to hit the opponent or trade with a 2/2 guy.
+1 Haunted Dead : Because it provides two bodies in one card for the pariah's sacrify effect while enable madness and can be recurred easily .
This is my actual list and I'm very happy with it. I suggest you to try and comment
PD: I was also thinking on including white for using lingering souls that probably will work bonkers with pariah.
Your list looks pretty sweet. Have you tried Falkenrath Aristocrat in place of Kalitas. It seems like your deck is very heavy into aggro, so she would be a better top end finisher. 4 Pariah seems to be a bit much. It seems like you might want to cut 2 of those to add in either lingeringing souls or a few bloodsoaked champions.
I was disappointed by the EDM vampries, but I think some sort of madness aggro deck does exist with the new vampires. I would have to get my brewing cap back on to think about it. I would start with something like 4x Heir, 4x Bloodghast, 4x Stromkirk Occultist, 4x Asylumn Visitor, 3x Stromkirk Condemned, 4x Stromkirk Captain, 2x Falkenrath Aristocrat along with 5 discard, 4 Lightning Bolt, and 4 Fiery Temper plus 22 lands.
And it's not the average mana cost that matters. It's how often you'll be able to cast him without being forced to intentionally put stuff in the grave even when it's not optimal to do so. I highly doubt you're able to cast him by turn 4 on average. That hasn't been even feasible from my experience unless you warp the whole deck around him with proactive cards.
There's a ~32% chance of drawing at least one copy him in your opening hand. Either way, you are right. Reveler incentives playing very proactively and warping your deck to minimize losses from the discard effects. I was never trying to say that my build plays the same way as the more controlling versions posted in this forum, but rather, it plays like a tempo deck. Discard and burn can easily be played proactively, and against control or combo, it is often good to play them this way if you are on the tempo game. This is especially true if you happen to draw a Reveler in the first 4 turns(46% chance on the play, 49% on the draw) and know that you be refilling you hand soon. I've played variations of this build long enough to know that it is a viable strategy, even if it seems unconventional.
Unfortunately you can't just put in a Reveler in a deck that plays a lot of instants and sorceries. It's going to need a ton of cantrips to make it work. Otherwise it's going to be a turn 6+ card and that's not where you want to be with a high impact card.
I have to disagree. I don't think Reveler plays that well with cantrips, as you want to be emptying your hand asap while still playing mostly instants/sorceries. A deck built with the same sort of card-type break-down as burn is ideal for playing him on curve without discarding many cards. Ryan Overturf came to the same conclusion after testing Reveler in Grixis Delver, seen in this article. Overturf mentions that burn might be a good place for Reveler, but he also notes that it would slow down their ability to race. I say that a low to the ground Mardu build is a much better place for him. We aren't trying to race, but rather to control the initial board until we can beat down with tokens/kalitas/etc. Refilling our hand and getting a 3/4 prowess beater for 2 mana is exactly what this deck wants (at least the more creature heavy-builds).
I'm trying to collect some real data on Reveler in my build, and so far I've found he costs an average of 2.3 mana, and drawing me an average of 2.6 cards. Granted, this is only after 10 matches, but I'll post the final data after 100 matches. I didn't record what turn I was able to cast him, but that is mostly dependent on my draws/when I draw him. I've noticed that I'm usually able to cast him by turn 4 if I draw him in my opening hand.
Did you find otherwise after testing him yourself?
Just played against Bedlam Revler Burn. The card is nuts and squashed me game 1. Game 2 and 3, I used the Seek part of Hide//Seek to gain 8 life... the opponent can't quite recover from that.
I've been toying around with Reveler in a Mardu-tempo shell, playing 3 Revelers as the card draw over Bob or Painful Truths. The only downside to the deck is it can't easily run 4 drops, as you need to ditch most of your hand to get value out of Reveler. On average, he seems to cost 3-4 when I can actually play him. The second reveler almost always costs 2, which makes him the best top deck in the world.
It plays similarly to lists like @Surfing_Bro is running. Controlling the boards turns 1 and 2, then landing a Young Pyro to start the beat down. I've found this to be an amazing shell for Collective Brutality, it lets you dump your hand for value very quickly to cast reveler either turns 3 or 4. Bloodghast has been a great fit as well, providing early aggression and late game resiliency.
The deck numbers and sideboard are still up in the air. Here is a list for those interested:
Voldaren Pariah is a huge build-around card with a very situational pay-off. You need both discard outlets, tokens (lingering souls), and your opponent has to have 3 creatures out for it to be relevant. I'd stay away from that card.
Stromkirk Occultist looks like it would slot better into your deck over Captivating Vampire. It gives you card advantage and can be discarded to the new lord.
I think your list is using the new cards the best I can think of. The new cards a very aggro-oriented and can't be slotted easily into the traditional lists. I'll have to play test you list to see how they hold up. I have a feeling that aether vial won't interact well with madness, and those slots should maybe be something else.
I want to put a resilient threat in the sideboard for the GBx MU, but haven't settled on one yet. What are people's preferences these days on Keranos, Sphinxs Rev, or Elsepth?
I think you've accomplished your goal, but made one, big, glaring error... You have 70 cards mainboard! That dramatically increased variance in your games. Your 4-of's will feel more like 3-of's (3.4) in a deck like this. You might want to choose between the combo or midrange threats, then cut 10 cards out of the deck.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. Helix vs Jund is a good call and taking out discard in both makes sense. I am trying to hone my sideboard game for the SCG Open in Milwaukee next month.
This may seem like an obvious question, but what's your plan for Affinity? It seems like we want to take out TS for sure, but how about Inquisition? Do we keep it in because it's the only reliable answer to Etched Champion?
That list looks solid. I've been back on Abbot myself. Have you tried running some number of Collective Brutality over one or two Helix?
I had a general question - what do people take out against Junk/Junk? It seems that both discard and Helix are mediocre, but which one's worse?
Your list looks pretty sweet. Have you tried Falkenrath Aristocrat in place of Kalitas. It seems like your deck is very heavy into aggro, so she would be a better top end finisher. 4 Pariah seems to be a bit much. It seems like you might want to cut 2 of those to add in either lingeringing souls or a few bloodsoaked champions.
There's a ~32% chance of drawing at least one copy him in your opening hand. Either way, you are right. Reveler incentives playing very proactively and warping your deck to minimize losses from the discard effects. I was never trying to say that my build plays the same way as the more controlling versions posted in this forum, but rather, it plays like a tempo deck. Discard and burn can easily be played proactively, and against control or combo, it is often good to play them this way if you are on the tempo game. This is especially true if you happen to draw a Reveler in the first 4 turns(46% chance on the play, 49% on the draw) and know that you be refilling you hand soon. I've played variations of this build long enough to know that it is a viable strategy, even if it seems unconventional.
I have to disagree. I don't think Reveler plays that well with cantrips, as you want to be emptying your hand asap while still playing mostly instants/sorceries. A deck built with the same sort of card-type break-down as burn is ideal for playing him on curve without discarding many cards. Ryan Overturf came to the same conclusion after testing Reveler in Grixis Delver, seen in this article. Overturf mentions that burn might be a good place for Reveler, but he also notes that it would slow down their ability to race. I say that a low to the ground Mardu build is a much better place for him. We aren't trying to race, but rather to control the initial board until we can beat down with tokens/kalitas/etc. Refilling our hand and getting a 3/4 prowess beater for 2 mana is exactly what this deck wants (at least the more creature heavy-builds).
I'm trying to collect some real data on Reveler in my build, and so far I've found he costs an average of 2.3 mana, and drawing me an average of 2.6 cards. Granted, this is only after 10 matches, but I'll post the final data after 100 matches. I didn't record what turn I was able to cast him, but that is mostly dependent on my draws/when I draw him. I've noticed that I'm usually able to cast him by turn 4 if I draw him in my opening hand.
Did you find otherwise after testing him yourself?
I've been toying around with Reveler in a Mardu-tempo shell, playing 3 Revelers as the card draw over Bob or Painful Truths. The only downside to the deck is it can't easily run 4 drops, as you need to ditch most of your hand to get value out of Reveler. On average, he seems to cost 3-4 when I can actually play him. The second reveler almost always costs 2, which makes him the best top deck in the world.
It plays similarly to lists like @Surfing_Bro is running. Controlling the boards turns 1 and 2, then landing a Young Pyro to start the beat down. I've found this to be an amazing shell for Collective Brutality, it lets you dump your hand for value very quickly to cast reveler either turns 3 or 4. Bloodghast has been a great fit as well, providing early aggression and late game resiliency.
The deck numbers and sideboard are still up in the air. Here is a list for those interested:
3x Young Pyromancer
4x Bloodghast
2x Collective Brutality
1x Dreadbore
4x Faithless Looting
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
4x Lingering Souls
3x Path to Exile
1x Terminate
2x Thoughtseize
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Marsh Flats
2x Arid Mesa
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Clifftop Retreat
2x Blood Crypt
1x Godless Shrine
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Shambling Vent
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Duress
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Molten Rain
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Wear / Tear
1x Zealous Persecution
Has anyone else been toying with Reveler?
Stromkirk Occultist looks like it would slot better into your deck over Captivating Vampire. It gives you card advantage and can be discarded to the new lord.
I think your list is using the new cards the best I can think of. The new cards a very aggro-oriented and can't be slotted easily into the traditional lists. I'll have to play test you list to see how they hold up. I have a feeling that aether vial won't interact well with madness, and those slots should maybe be something else.