i've basically given up on two colors. BW manabase is more awkward than I realized, especially when you want to cast double black 4 drops like Sanctum Seeker on turn 4 but you need your lands to line up the right way to do so while also trying not to stumble on the way. This build is decent I've found, doesn't really lose creature matchups easily and is pretty resilient (going turn 3 Oketra's Monument into turn 4 double Legion Conquistador is very consistent and very powerful), the Inspiring Clerics help against Mono Red as does the natural lifelink of the deck. Shefet Dunes is amazing, full 4 and I never looked back. Metallic Mimic is an okay lord for vamps who can also be set to support soldiers from Monument, most of the time he eats removal but when he doesn't he does good work.
I'll be looking into a Mono Black Vampires build soon though; Black has a lot of powerful tools, possibly at the cost of resilience and wideness without Monument but with more removal, better creatures (being able to easily and consistently play Gifted Aetherborn on 2 sounds great), and possibly a better bomb in Sanctum Seeker
The deck functions as you'd expect: Aggressive, small creatures with some utility or evasion to kill the opponent very fast, but being in Black it comes with the benefit of being able to back up your threats with kill spells and discard. While this deck almost definitely took advantage of the expected meta at the event I think the archetype's got real legs with a bit of tweaking. There's a lot of unexplored power in Black with cards like Pale Rider of Trostad and Heir of Falkenrath. I think with a bit of testing this can be the best aggressive deck in the format.
i can see Temper being as good as Shock because it gives the deck reach but I'm not sold on Magma Spray. Mostly Spray's for Scrounger but decks like this should be able to get under Mardu and race them effectively, Scrounger can't even block so it shouldn't be a priority to remove most of the time
i always like Outnumber as a card in these decks, to take out big annoying blockers, but so many of Red's creatures are so naturally evasive right now it's probably better in the side with a direct burn spell like Shock in the main
Tom Ross did a versus video behind the paywall at starcity. Mono-W aggro with Trueheart Duelist, I'm told. He's also done videos with non-human aggro lists.
Friendly color 2 color decks have pretty great mana, but I wonder about how good the U Humans are.
dang, well hopefully he's at SCG this weekend.
The Blue humans are eh, especially with Reflector Mage gone. I mainly want access to counter magic, specifically Negate in the side (though I have been eying Censor) Indestructible effects from Green and I think White are nice against sweepers, but Negate's a catchall that can also beat Planeswalkers and enchantments that would make our lives harder
has Tom Ross written any articles on Humans? He's generally the go-to guy for these decks. I've been messing around with B/W Humans for the past few months, but with Saheeli Combo gone I feel like super fast mono-white may be the way to go, a la the beginning of Shadows standard. I also don't really like Metallic Mimic in that style of deck.
I also want to try Blue/White Humans because I like a few of the tools and sideboard options blue has, but I don't think it'll be good
so realistically, you just want bans to help control. say they ban Wraith or even Shadow, say they ban Stirrings, then what? do you really think that Control will jump to the top? Is Tron what is keeping Control from being good? because that would be really sad if the biggest meta call in the format can do that. Say they ban those three cards and it doesn't work, how many cards do you want to ban, decks do you want to kill (because Tron wouldn't survive Stirrings being banned, it would instantly become a bad casual deck. it's already a 4 card combo deck that has to dedicate the majority of the deck to combo pieces and tools to find them. seriously, PLEASE explain to me why people keep hating on Tron, it's a slow multi card combo deck that doesn't even win on the spot.
To be clear, I want Counterspell as much as anyone, i want an awesome tempo-control deck as much as anyone. but Tron is not what is keeping it down. the card pool isn't quite there yet, and the format is to fast, banning cards from a slow deck that relies on a very small number of threats will not help. bans are not how control is going to become top dog, at least not in a format still worth playing. if Mana Leak is enough to get the job done, the format power has been killed to be glorified Standard
What we need is Preordain. the counters we have largely suck, but being able to have a flexible counter suite and search up the one you need would be a huge boost for at least my UB Thing control
the format would be a much better place if Tron didn't exist. You say Tron doesn't win on the spot but in many matchups it essentially does. There is nothing a deck like, say, Jund can do against turn 3 Karn into turn 4 Ugin into whatever. This applies to control as well. Tron's haymakers come out too hard, too fast, and are too durable for control to truly stand a chance against it. Tron is a deck that "essentially" wins on turn 3 much of the time.
Many people also believe Tron is an autopilot deck, and that there's not much thinking involved in the decisions Tron makes, as well as the fact that it's a very swingy deck in that it crushes half of its matchups and gets crushed by the other half, means most iterations of Tron aren't fun to play as or against. This is why there's so much deserved vitriol towards it. And while Tron isn't the only thing keeping control down it's definitely somewhere in the top 10 on a list I'd make.
Sideboard still needs to be worked on, but Stony Silence, Negate, and Blessed Alliance have all earned their two spots. I'm thinking about Nihil Spellbomb because it's much friendlier graveyard hate than Rest in Peace. Maybe a third Anguished Unmaking or a one-of Detention Sphere as an extra catch-all? I do need something to hedge against matchups that will be difficult, like combo decks.
This deck was built to fight midrange and creature based decks, as you can tell by the 11 removal spells. I have a stellar record against Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis Delver, though I need to play against more variety. Lingering Souls is amazing, as always. Tasigur's great, a big cheap creature that can net me card advantage; one of my few wins against Tron was due to an early Tasigur backed up by removal and counterspells. Gurmag on the other hand has underperformed. He never comes down on turn 2 and he's almost always outclassed as a body. I'm thinking about replacing him with something sturdier, like Geist of Saint Traft, who will probably close games super fast with all my removal getting rid of blockers. Mana Leak has it's moments, it's always a hard counter early, but past that it's usually meh, especially considering I run 4 Path. I like having a little bit of countermagic, I guess Leak can be replaced with Countersquall, since I have enough answers for creatures anyway.
thoughts? I'm open to suggestions, I really feel like Esper's got legs in this format
I guess Countersquall makes sense because you are playing a tempo list with delver, which should frequently give you the edge, but i do not think detention sphere and anguised are what you are looking for against combo. It is clunky and slow, though sphere is great against eldrazi in most iterations. And I think you should still be playing some hard counters to prevent ETB triggers for instance from Primeval Titan, in which case Mana Leak most probably serves you better to finish the game in time.
sorry! I didn't mean that Anguished Unmaking/D-Sphere were combo answers, I meant to say they they're maindeck catch-alls that can remove hard to hit permanents like Planeswalkers, Enchantments, and artifacts or just remove creatures. I was wondering if I needed another Anguished, or possibly a D-Sphere since Anguished hurts a little, in the side as another answer to these threats. I actually have no clue what I should side in against combo oriented decks like Storm or Ad Nauseum, which sucks because they're terrible matchups to begin with. Maybe, like, Meddling Mage? I have no idea
I like the list as it reminds of Esper transcendent - without Narset . Would Sorin, solemn vistor be an option as you have quite a bit of tokens? Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is pet card of mine but I left him out in my Esper Narset build. How does he fare for you?
Hey! My list does run a ton of tokens, but Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is better when my board state is behind or even, as he's an immediate swing towards bringing the board state under control. Sorin, Solemn Rockstar is way more aggressive and can close games faster, but worse when I'm on the backfoot.
Jace is interesting, he fuels my delve spells and helps me churn through cards I don't need, plus if I can Thought Scour he flips basically immediately. My main concern is that he'll just die before I can do anything with him, since he'll only ever flip on turn 3 at the earliest. I'll try him out though!
I like the list as it reminds of Esper transcendent - without Narset . Would Sorin, solemn vistor be an option as you have quite a bit of tokens? Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is pet card of mine but I left him out in my Esper Narset build. How does he fare for you?
I have tried Solemn visitor before, but he is really only good when i have already established a board presence. At that point I am mostly winning anyway and the lifegain is not all that relevant. Lord of innistrad on the other hand provides for a great amount of value against any creature heavy build. Life+board presence+ cheap anthem+ ultimate are all threatening and i would argue sorin is even better in this shell than Gideon is. As for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy he is overperforming in every matchup aside from jund and grixis and becomes even stronger after boarding. And since we are not playing draw-go all of the time, i would argue Jace perfectly complements snapcaster. Also because i do not like to use snapcaster to inquisition for a second time and esper charming from graveyard every 2 turns provides a lot of value
I forgot Sorin, Lord of Innistrad was a thing. He's definitely easier to cast against Gideon and provides about the same amount of advantage. I will say that the 2/2 body on the Allies and the 5/5 swings from Gideon himself have had moments where they were very relevant, but Sorin's anthem doesn't cost all his loyalty so he can stick around immediately after pumping. I think I'll definitely give him a try. Esper Charm has also been a card I've been interested in, but I just can't find the room for it
Sideboard still needs to be worked on, but Stony Silence, Negate, and Blessed Alliance have all earned their two spots. I'm thinking about Nihil Spellbomb because it's much friendlier graveyard hate than Rest in Peace. Maybe a third Anguished Unmaking or a one-of Detention Sphere as an extra catch-all? I do need something to hedge against matchups that will be difficult, like combo decks.
This deck was built to fight midrange and creature based decks, as you can tell by the 11 removal spells. I have a stellar record against Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis Delver, though I need to play against more variety. Lingering Souls is amazing, as always. Tasigur's great, a big cheap creature that can net me card advantage; one of my few wins against Tron was due to an early Tasigur backed up by removal and counterspells. Gurmag on the other hand has underperformed. He never comes down on turn 2 and he's almost always outclassed as a body. I'm thinking about replacing him with something sturdier, like Geist of Saint Traft, who will probably close games super fast with all my removal getting rid of blockers. Mana Leak has it's moments, it's always a hard counter early, but past that it's usually meh, especially considering I run 4 Path. I like having a little bit of countermagic, I guess Leak can be replaced with Countersquall, since I have enough answers for creatures anyway.
thoughts? I'm open to suggestions, I really feel like Esper's got legs in this format
Well, I am not one of those for starters. I think Force Of Will is too strong for Modern(it would be a mistake in Modern),
I don't agree with this. FoW's power is overrated, it's only amazing in legacy because it stops you from losing on the spot. In Modern it's too reactive, brings you down a life AND two cards to counter something that more proactive opponents probably didn't care too much about anyway. Force would be played in Modern, but it would only be a decent one-for-two in most situations
Jesus Christ, I took a look at the top 32, it's really diverse, but blue is really, REALLY, REALLLLLLY bad.
hey man Merfolk did super well. That's a blue deck. It even has Dispel and Unified Will in the side, those are reactive. A reactive blue deck made top 4. Blue is perfectly fine where it is and will never get any improvements for the next 3 years
4 Adanto Vanguard
4 Bishop's Soldier
2 Bishop of Rebirth
3 Inspiring Cleric
4 Legion Conquistador
4 Duskborne Skymarcher
2 Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
3 Metallic Mimic
3 Skywhaler's Shot
4 Shefet Dunes
4 Desert of the True
17 Plains
i've basically given up on two colors. BW manabase is more awkward than I realized, especially when you want to cast double black 4 drops like Sanctum Seeker on turn 4 but you need your lands to line up the right way to do so while also trying not to stumble on the way. This build is decent I've found, doesn't really lose creature matchups easily and is pretty resilient (going turn 3 Oketra's Monument into turn 4 double Legion Conquistador is very consistent and very powerful), the Inspiring Clerics help against Mono Red as does the natural lifelink of the deck. Shefet Dunes is amazing, full 4 and I never looked back. Metallic Mimic is an okay lord for vamps who can also be set to support soldiers from Monument, most of the time he eats removal but when he doesn't he does good work.
The Skywhaler's Shots are concessions to Ripjaw Raptor who I have no idea how to beat, and Glorybringer who can be troublesome for the deck but on the whole removal options in White just aren't great, which I guess is the cost of dropping Black. The sideboard is a bit wonky, but I've been loving Settle the Wreckage as well as Ixalan's Binding and Gideon's Intervention.
I'll be looking into a Mono Black Vampires build soon though; Black has a lot of powerful tools, possibly at the cost of resilience and wideness without Monument but with more removal, better creatures (being able to easily and consistently play Gifted Aetherborn on 2 sounds great), and possibly a better bomb in Sanctum Seeker
i don't think that matters too much nowadays. I'd be more worried it dies to Fatal Push. I would definitely still try Angel of Condemnation out
Anyway, this thing put up results at the SCG tournament a few weeks ago, making Top 8 in a tournament filled with Mardu Vehicles which suggests that the deck's got game against the most played deck in standard right now
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113153
4 Bone Picker
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Walking Ballista
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Night Market Lookout
4 Fatal Push
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Collective Brutality
3 Never
2 Aether Hub
The deck functions as you'd expect: Aggressive, small creatures with some utility or evasion to kill the opponent very fast, but being in Black it comes with the benefit of being able to back up your threats with kill spells and discard. While this deck almost definitely took advantage of the expected meta at the event I think the archetype's got real legs with a bit of tweaking. There's a lot of unexplored power in Black with cards like Pale Rider of Trostad and Heir of Falkenrath. I think with a bit of testing this can be the best aggressive deck in the format.
dang, well hopefully he's at SCG this weekend.
The Blue humans are eh, especially with Reflector Mage gone. I mainly want access to counter magic, specifically Negate in the side (though I have been eying Censor) Indestructible effects from Green and I think White are nice against sweepers, but Negate's a catchall that can also beat Planeswalkers and enchantments that would make our lives harder
I also want to try Blue/White Humans because I like a few of the tools and sideboard options blue has, but I don't think it'll be good
the format would be a much better place if Tron didn't exist. You say Tron doesn't win on the spot but in many matchups it essentially does. There is nothing a deck like, say, Jund can do against turn 3 Karn into turn 4 Ugin into whatever. This applies to control as well. Tron's haymakers come out too hard, too fast, and are too durable for control to truly stand a chance against it. Tron is a deck that "essentially" wins on turn 3 much of the time.
Many people also believe Tron is an autopilot deck, and that there's not much thinking involved in the decisions Tron makes, as well as the fact that it's a very swingy deck in that it crushes half of its matchups and gets crushed by the other half, means most iterations of Tron aren't fun to play as or against. This is why there's so much deserved vitriol towards it. And while Tron isn't the only thing keeping control down it's definitely somewhere in the top 10 on a list I'd make.
Emblem is permanent, so even if you're able to kill the first one the next three will also be Platinum Angels without even having to 0
We're almost definitely not getting good planeswalker hate
I think I'm done with standard indefinitely
sorry! I didn't mean that Anguished Unmaking/D-Sphere were combo answers, I meant to say they they're maindeck catch-alls that can remove hard to hit permanents like Planeswalkers, Enchantments, and artifacts or just remove creatures. I was wondering if I needed another Anguished, or possibly a D-Sphere since Anguished hurts a little, in the side as another answer to these threats. I actually have no clue what I should side in against combo oriented decks like Storm or Ad Nauseum, which sucks because they're terrible matchups to begin with. Maybe, like, Meddling Mage? I have no idea
Hey! My list does run a ton of tokens, but Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is better when my board state is behind or even, as he's an immediate swing towards bringing the board state under control. Sorin, Solemn Rockstar is way more aggressive and can close games faster, but worse when I'm on the backfoot.
Jace is interesting, he fuels my delve spells and helps me churn through cards I don't need, plus if I can Thought Scour he flips basically immediately. My main concern is that he'll just die before I can do anything with him, since he'll only ever flip on turn 3 at the earliest. I'll try him out though!
Thanks! I'll post my list there too
I forgot Sorin, Lord of Innistrad was a thing. He's definitely easier to cast against Gideon and provides about the same amount of advantage. I will say that the 2/2 body on the Allies and the 5/5 swings from Gideon himself have had moments where they were very relevant, but Sorin's anthem doesn't cost all his loyalty so he can stick around immediately after pumping. I think I'll definitely give him a try. Esper Charm has also been a card I've been interested in, but I just can't find the room for it
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Lingering Souls
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Path to Exile
4 Fatal Push
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Mana Leak
1 Murderous Cut
2 Gideon, Ally of Zenikar
Sideboard still needs to be worked on, but Stony Silence, Negate, and Blessed Alliance have all earned their two spots. I'm thinking about Nihil Spellbomb because it's much friendlier graveyard hate than Rest in Peace. Maybe a third Anguished Unmaking or a one-of Detention Sphere as an extra catch-all? I do need something to hedge against matchups that will be difficult, like combo decks.
This deck was built to fight midrange and creature based decks, as you can tell by the 11 removal spells. I have a stellar record against Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis Delver, though I need to play against more variety. Lingering Souls is amazing, as always. Tasigur's great, a big cheap creature that can net me card advantage; one of my few wins against Tron was due to an early Tasigur backed up by removal and counterspells. Gurmag on the other hand has underperformed. He never comes down on turn 2 and he's almost always outclassed as a body. I'm thinking about replacing him with something sturdier, like Geist of Saint Traft, who will probably close games super fast with all my removal getting rid of blockers. Mana Leak has it's moments, it's always a hard counter early, but past that it's usually meh, especially considering I run 4 Path. I like having a little bit of countermagic, I guess Leak can be replaced with Countersquall, since I have enough answers for creatures anyway.
thoughts? I'm open to suggestions, I really feel like Esper's got legs in this format
I don't agree with this. FoW's power is overrated, it's only amazing in legacy because it stops you from losing on the spot. In Modern it's too reactive, brings you down a life AND two cards to counter something that more proactive opponents probably didn't care too much about anyway. Force would be played in Modern, but it would only be a decent one-for-two in most situations
hey man Merfolk did super well. That's a blue deck. It even has Dispel and Unified Will in the side, those are reactive. A reactive blue deck made top 4. Blue is perfectly fine where it is and will never get any improvements for the next 3 years