Ditto on tutoring for Urborg sometimes. After Urborg lands I just get Plains with Weathered Wayfarer and friends, usually.
The idea behind Rout is in relation to the habit of holding up mana for to make spirits at the end of the turn before ours rather than tap out on our turn. That's why the instant-speed option can be useful. If somebody combos on their turn to attack with tons of tokens or an overrun effect, the wipe could be useful. Although, that rather makes me want to try Tenacity or Comeuppance instead.
As for Toxic Deluge, why do you say it would be used turn 3 just because it costs 3 mana? That's not why it's costed at 3. You cast it when you should, not when you can, of course. However, Deluge's low cost allows you to hold up mana for making spirits still and it happens to fit within the 3-mana cost pattern in the deck. It also gives us a different type of wipe and usually isn't going to cost more than a few life most times to take out tokens. That's just what you need when somebody has Eldrazi Monument on the battlefield, though some of your other wipes take care of that, too. This isn't the thing you use to take out Uril or Kozilek.
I agree that flavor of wipes is going to depend on context of what things you need to remove, but there are other reasons it fits well.
True, the instant speed wipe can be good. Not necessarily as a combat trick, but so I can go first when starting to rebuild board position. Comeuppance seems really cheeky, but could be fun to play exactly one time.
I said turn 3 for Deluge because if it was later, I could just as easily use one of the higher mana cost wipes. Daxos is dying from Toxic Deluge every time, so the only time I can use it and still get spirits is if my spirits are stronger than the threats I want to eliminate - and if that's the case, I'm probably already in good shape. I'll have to mull these over. Perhaps Rout in for Fumigate. But I don't know if there's a place for Toxic Deluge. Maybe Terminus? It might just not make the cut.
Standard question for anybody running around with Coffers - how's it been performing? I'm super leery that I'd essentially need to guarantee Urborg for it to be worth it.
100% run coffers. The deck doesn't work well without enough mana, and urborg-coffers is the best way to guarantee that. I will absolutely tutor for Urborg using my first tutor of the game. It does more than Serra's Sanctum at almost all stages of the game, and Urborg by itself solves basically any color issues you might have.
Rout is just another 5-mana wrath. I don't run into regenerate much, so that part doesn't help over Fumigate. Being an instant? Maybe. Toxic Deluge has an awful steep life total to wipe. If it's early game, there's unlikely to be threats I care about enough to NEED to kill on turn 3. Later in the game, there could be a time my spirits are bigger than everything else, but that's far from a regular occurrence. But I'll take a look. I think the exact flavor of board wipes that work best depend on your own meta.
Cabal Coffers, Deserted temple, or whatever cool land anyone else has. Even if it just becomes a CIP tapped dual land, that's okay. As far as board wipes, perhaps, but I use them as my catch-all of answers, rather than narrow removal.
I've finally gotten my Daxos deck into a shape where it's pretty decent, so I feel it's time to share and get opinions from people. I like my commanders to be the center point of the deck, so I'm quite aware that this doesn't function nearly as well if Daxos can't stay on the board. Mostly, this deck wants to get Skybind online and wrecking havoc - but then again, what Daxos deck doesn't? And has anyone thought about putting in Panharmonicon for the constellation triggers?
That would cause far too much errata for me to think its correct. If anything I think <> is going to be type of mana similar to Snow mana or Phyrexian. It's a colorless mana that can be used to pay for <> or generic mana. So essentially a sixth color without actually being a color.
Nothing would need errata, although they would probably put it in anyway. Per the comp rules:
107.4b Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) represent generic mana in costs. Generic mana in costs can be paid with any type of mana. For more information about {X}, see rule 107.3.
107.4c Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) can also represent colorless mana if they appear in the effect of a spell or ability that reads “add [mana symbol] to your mana pool” or something similar. (See rule 107.3e.)
Sol Ring already produces <><>, we just didn't know that's what it was called. Really, we're just going back to how colorless mana used to be indicated.
1. <> mana costs can only be paid with colorless mana
2. Lands that tap for <> produce colorless mana can only be used to pay for colorless spells
Please don't be no. 2
The biggest reason I don't think it's number 2, from BFZ.
Why would they just have made this card if they were going to introduce a new symbol for that very ability.
In order to try to figure out what <> could mean, I think it's key that there are as few rules changes as possible. So, I took a look at the rules. Here are a few things jump out at me.
106.1a There are five colors of mana: white, blue, black, red, and green.
106.1b There are six types of mana: white, blue, black, red, green, and colorless.
107.4. The mana symbols are {W}, {U}, {B}, {R}, {G}, and {X}; the numerals {0}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {4}, and so on; the hybrid symbols {W/U}, {W/B}, {U/B}, {U/R}, {B/R}, {B/G}, {R/G}, {R/W}, {G/W}, and {G/U}; the monocolored hybrid symbols {2/W}, {2/U}, {2/B}, {2/R}, and {2/G}; the Phyrexian mana symbols {W/P}, {U/P}, {B/P}, {R/P}, and {G/P}; and the snow symbol {S}.
107.4a There are five primary colored mana symbols: {W} is white, {U} blue, {B} black, {R} red, and {G} green. These symbols are used to represent colored mana, and also to represent colored mana in costs. Colored mana in costs can be paid only with the appropriate color of mana. See rule 202, “Mana Cost and Color.”
107.4b Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) represent generic mana in costs. Generic mana in costs can be paid with any type of mana. For more information about {X}, see rule 107.3.
107.4c Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) can also represent colorless mana if they appear in the effect of a spell or ability that reads “add [mana symbol] to your mana pool” or something similar. (See rule 107.3e.)
107.4h The snow mana symbol {S} represents one generic mana in a cost. This generic mana can be paid with one mana of any type produced by a snow permanent (see rule 205.4f). Effects that reduce the amount of generic mana you pay don’t affect {S} costs. (There is no such thing as “snow mana”; “snow” is not a type of mana.)
202.1a The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from his or her mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the color of any colored mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost.
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words “basic land type,” it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability “{T}: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool,” even if the text box doesn’t actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is {W}; for Islands, {U}; for Swamps, {B}; for Mountains, {R}; and for Forests, {G}. See rule 107.4a. Also see rule 605, “Mana Abilities.”
So, what do I think all that means? The same as several others here. <> is one mana of type: colorless. Per rule 107.4c, things which produced 1 previously already do produce colorless mana. That means there won't be a need for a massive errata. There are still 5 colors and 6 types of mana. 107.4 will get a new symbol for <>. There will be a new rule (107.4i or so) which explains the Colorless mana symbol. In costs, it is 1 colorless mana (as distinct from colored mana used generically). In producing, it is the same as 1.
If I'm correct about this, the new symbol will be fully backwards compatible with all of magic, because we've always had colorless mana. Now it finally matters. And we've had cards which have particular restrictions on their cost. There have also been distinctions between "mana of any color" and "mana of any type". Now, those are meaningful. Why now? As someone earlier did say, there's not really a terrific time to do major updates like this anymore. I'm still surprised they didn't at least do it for the BFZ. Will <> be the new 1 moving forward? I rather hope not, because seeing cards like Thran Dynamo tap to produce <><><> instead of 3 seems a lot less elegant.
True, the instant speed wipe can be good. Not necessarily as a combat trick, but so I can go first when starting to rebuild board position. Comeuppance seems really cheeky, but could be fun to play exactly one time.
I said turn 3 for Deluge because if it was later, I could just as easily use one of the higher mana cost wipes. Daxos is dying from Toxic Deluge every time, so the only time I can use it and still get spirits is if my spirits are stronger than the threats I want to eliminate - and if that's the case, I'm probably already in good shape. I'll have to mull these over. Perhaps Rout in for Fumigate. But I don't know if there's a place for Toxic Deluge. Maybe Terminus? It might just not make the cut.
100% run coffers. The deck doesn't work well without enough mana, and urborg-coffers is the best way to guarantee that. I will absolutely tutor for Urborg using my first tutor of the game. It does more than Serra's Sanctum at almost all stages of the game, and Urborg by itself solves basically any color issues you might have.
Rout is just another 5-mana wrath. I don't run into regenerate much, so that part doesn't help over Fumigate. Being an instant? Maybe. Toxic Deluge has an awful steep life total to wipe. If it's early game, there's unlikely to be threats I care about enough to NEED to kill on turn 3. Later in the game, there could be a time my spirits are bigger than everything else, but that's far from a regular occurrence. But I'll take a look. I think the exact flavor of board wipes that work best depend on your own meta.
1 Daxos the Returned
Artifacts (12)
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
Creatures (9)
1 Academy Rector
1 Archetype of Finality
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Lost Auramancers
1 Sun Titan
1 Thoughtrender Lamia
1 Weathered Wayfarer
Enchantment (26)
1 Angelic Chorus
1 Attrition
1 Authority of the Consuls
1 Black Market
1 Call for Unity
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Gift of Immortality
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Grave Betrayal
1 Grave Pact
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Karmic Justice
1 Land Tax
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Painful Quandary
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Proper Burial
1 Quarantine Field
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Skybind
1 Sphere of Safety
1 True Conviction
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries (13)
1 Austere Command
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Extinguish All Hope
1 Final Judgment
1 Fumigate
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Replenish
1 Terminus
1 Tragic Arrogance
1 Wrath of God
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Lands (35)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Deserted Temple
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scoured Barrens
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Tainted Field
1 Temple of Silence
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Vesuva
8 Plains
5 Swamp
Nothing would need errata, although they would probably put it in anyway. Per the comp rules:
107.4b Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) represent generic mana in costs. Generic mana in costs can be paid with any type of mana. For more information about {X}, see rule 107.3.
107.4c Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) can also represent colorless mana if they appear in the effect of a spell or ability that reads “add [mana symbol] to your mana pool” or something similar. (See rule 107.3e.)
Sol Ring already produces <><>, we just didn't know that's what it was called. Really, we're just going back to how colorless mana used to be indicated.
Revised Edition Sol Ring
The biggest reason I don't think it's number 2, from BFZ.
Why would they just have made this card if they were going to introduce a new symbol for that very ability.
106.1a There are five colors of mana: white, blue, black, red, and green.
106.1b There are six types of mana: white, blue, black, red, green, and colorless.
107.4. The mana symbols are {W}, {U}, {B}, {R}, {G}, and {X}; the numerals {0}, {1}, {2}, {3}, {4}, and so on; the hybrid symbols {W/U}, {W/B}, {U/B}, {U/R}, {B/R}, {B/G}, {R/G}, {R/W}, {G/W}, and {G/U}; the monocolored hybrid symbols {2/W}, {2/U}, {2/B}, {2/R}, and {2/G}; the Phyrexian mana symbols {W/P}, {U/P}, {B/P}, {R/P}, and {G/P}; and the snow symbol {S}.
107.4a There are five primary colored mana symbols: {W} is white, {U} blue, {B} black, {R} red, and {G} green. These symbols are used to represent colored mana, and also to represent colored mana in costs. Colored mana in costs can be paid only with the appropriate color of mana. See rule 202, “Mana Cost and Color.”
107.4b Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) represent generic mana in costs. Generic mana in costs can be paid with any type of mana. For more information about {X}, see rule 107.3.
107.4c Numeral symbols (such as {1}) and variable symbols (such as {X}) can also represent colorless mana if they appear in the effect of a spell or ability that reads “add [mana symbol] to your mana pool” or something similar. (See rule 107.3e.)
107.4h The snow mana symbol {S} represents one generic mana in a cost. This generic mana can be paid with one mana of any type produced by a snow permanent (see rule 205.4f). Effects that reduce the amount of generic mana you pay don’t affect {S} costs. (There is no such thing as “snow mana”; “snow” is not a type of mana.)
202.1a The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from his or her mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the color of any colored mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost.
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words “basic land type,” it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability “{T}: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool,” even if the text box doesn’t actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is {W}; for Islands, {U}; for Swamps, {B}; for Mountains, {R}; and for Forests, {G}. See rule 107.4a. Also see rule 605, “Mana Abilities.”
So, what do I think all that means? The same as several others here. <> is one mana of type: colorless. Per rule 107.4c, things which produced 1 previously already do produce colorless mana. That means there won't be a need for a massive errata. There are still 5 colors and 6 types of mana. 107.4 will get a new symbol for <>. There will be a new rule (107.4i or so) which explains the Colorless mana symbol. In costs, it is 1 colorless mana (as distinct from colored mana used generically). In producing, it is the same as 1.
If I'm correct about this, the new symbol will be fully backwards compatible with all of magic, because we've always had colorless mana. Now it finally matters. And we've had cards which have particular restrictions on their cost. There have also been distinctions between "mana of any color" and "mana of any type". Now, those are meaningful. Why now? As someone earlier did say, there's not really a terrific time to do major updates like this anymore. I'm still surprised they didn't at least do it for the BFZ. Will <> be the new 1 moving forward? I rather hope not, because seeing cards like Thran Dynamo tap to produce <><><> instead of 3 seems a lot less elegant.