To be useful, when using the first mode, the spell has to be cast and resolve during the "declare attackers" step at the latest. During the "declare blockers" step, the step based action of choosing legal blockers happens before any player gets priority.
Once a creature is in combat (attacking or blocking), changing the legality of attackers or blockers does not remove it from combat.
It could phase out.
It's owner could leave the game (lose, concede, removed by judge).
The game could end.
The game could be restarted.
This would create a situation not covered by the rules currently. Where an object is controlled but not owned by a player losing the game, that object is exiled. Your hypothetical permanent would create a problem in this situation.
Aboleth is not the source of the original ability nor does copying the ability result in the copy's source being different.
If the original ability references its source, the copy will reference the same source. Hence the "may" in Aboleth's ability; you may not want to use it.
(The controller of the original and copy will be different, thus any "you" will refer to different players. Such as "You gain 2 life.")
If from those possible orders you choose Xorn, then Manufactor, then Chaterfang, you will indeded get 2 Food, 2 Treasures, 2 Clues, and 6 Squirrels for any event creating a Food, Treasure, or Clue.
Rezzahan made a slight error here:
If you have an initial Treasure creating effect, you indeed get a total of 12 tokens when applying the replacement effects optimally.
However, if you have an initial Clue or Food creating effect, you can only get a max of 8 tokens: 2 Treasure, 1 Clue, 1 Food & 4 Squirrels. In this situation, Xorn's effect cannot apply until after Manufactor's effect is applied first.
1. Abilities, once put on the stack, exist independently from their source object. Removing the source must be completed before the ability triggers or its controller can pay the activation cost (whichever is appropriate). Once the ability is on that stack, it will get to resolve unless an effect stops the ability itself without regard for the source.
Similarly, effects that restrict/prevent players from paying costs must resolve before the ability is put on the stack to change the outcome.
Note: Activated abilities have by default "instant timing". If a player could cast an instant, they can activate an ability, including in response to other instants and abilities.
Further note: No object on the stack resolves immediately. The topmost object will resolve only once each player passes. Thus players always get a chance to respond to new objects put on the stack before they resolve.
2. Lathril's activated ability uses the tap symbol, T, and she does not normally have haste. Thus removal effects used on the same turn she enters the battlefield will ordinarily be effective.
3. There exist older (and one new) spells with the ability "split second". You may want to search Gatherer for an appropriate example. (e.g. Wipe Away)
4. While Lathril is on the stack, she is a spell and may be targeted by any appropriate spell removal/countering effect. (e.g. Cancel)
5. Activated or triggered abilities on the stack may themselves be targeted by appropriate spells. (e.g. Stifle)
I think that's enough ideas. This is turning into a strategy post and not a rules post. I suggest posting in an appropriate part of this forum for more advice.
712.4a While a double-faced card is outside the game or in a zone other than the battlefield or stack, it has only the characteristics of its front face.
Accordingly, in exile (where the card's mana value is determined by the delayed triggered ability) MDFCs have only the mana value of their front face.
You may be thinking of split cards:
709.4. In every zone except the stack, the characteristics of a split card are those of its two halves combined. This is a change from previous rules.
A split card has a single mana value derived from the sum of each half's cost (except when on the stack).
1. Tokens are always owned by the player instructed to create the token. No effect can change an object's owner once initially determined. When a player leaves the game, all objects he or she owns leave the game with them. This happens immediately as part of leaving the game and is not a state-based action.
So yes, the tokens owned by Player B leave with him regardless of who controls them.
2. Triggered abilities have no owner, only a controller. That controller is the same as the controller of the source of the triggered ability. Once triggered, the ability exists independently of its source.
So yes, Player A will put a separate triggered ability on the stack for each Adephage he controlled that did combat damage to a player. This happens after state-based actions cause Player B to lose the game and the tokens leave with him. (Assuming the game continues with additional players, of course) Those abilities exist independently of their now nonexistent sources. They will get to resolve in turn at the appropriate time.
Since the ability asks you to search a hidden zone for a card with particular characteristics, you always have the option to fail to find an appropriate card during the search.
(The personal knowledge of players that a library contains a certain card is irrelevant; the game doesn't know it.)
The ability will continue to do what it can, ignoring instructions that are impossible. In your example, you will still shuffle your library.
As previously stated, the Tomb's ability looks back in time to the game state just before the Crusher leaves the graveyard. At that time, the Tomb is on the battlefield and it's ability is thus able to trigger. The triggered ability will be put on the stack as an object independent of it's source and will resolve even though the Tomb is gone by then.
That thread lacks any relevant rules quoting to support its conclusion. (There's some rule quoted about hand to hidden zone moves apparently made to deal with a few older cards but nothing on point.) Could you help me by providing any rules to support it?
This works because Kozilek touches the graveyard (a public zone) before the shuffle.
Replacement effect shufflers (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus) will not work with the Scion because a hidden zone to hidden zone move will prevent the game from knowing any information about the object.
The chosen creature is not a target so the choice is only made on resolution not casting. The creatures to be made into copies are targets and must be chosen when you cast the spell.
By announcing the choice of creature earlier then you were supposed to, you essentially were proposing a shortcut. The opponent rejected the shortcut by destroying your choice of creature. With the shortcut rejected, upon resolution of the spell, you are free to choose any other creature on the battlefield. (Of course the Oracle, being gone, is not a valid choice.)
Your brother is correct.
Double Major creates a copy of a spell whose copiable characteristics does not include the legendary supertype. When that spell copy resolves, the token that enters the battlefield will likewise not have the legendary supertype in its copiable characteristics.
Once a creature is in combat (attacking or blocking), changing the legality of attackers or blockers does not remove it from combat.
It's owner could leave the game (lose, concede, removed by judge).
The game could end.
The game could be restarted.
This would create a situation not covered by the rules currently. Where an object is controlled but not owned by a player losing the game, that object is exiled. Your hypothetical permanent would create a problem in this situation.
Aboleth is not the source of the original ability nor does copying the ability result in the copy's source being different.
If the original ability references its source, the copy will reference the same source. Hence the "may" in Aboleth's ability; you may not want to use it.
(The controller of the original and copy will be different, thus any "you" will refer to different players. Such as "You gain 2 life.")
If so, it affects all players' spells.
It would be worded "Spells you control can't be countered" otherwise.
Rezzahan made a slight error here:
If you have an initial Treasure creating effect, you indeed get a total of 12 tokens when applying the replacement effects optimally.
However, if you have an initial Clue or Food creating effect, you can only get a max of 8 tokens: 2 Treasure, 1 Clue, 1 Food & 4 Squirrels. In this situation, Xorn's effect cannot apply until after Manufactor's effect is applied first.
I'll add the rules later. (On mobile right now.)
1. Abilities, once put on the stack, exist independently from their source object. Removing the source must be completed before the ability triggers or its controller can pay the activation cost (whichever is appropriate). Once the ability is on that stack, it will get to resolve unless an effect stops the ability itself without regard for the source.
Similarly, effects that restrict/prevent players from paying costs must resolve before the ability is put on the stack to change the outcome.
Note: Activated abilities have by default "instant timing". If a player could cast an instant, they can activate an ability, including in response to other instants and abilities.
Further note: No object on the stack resolves immediately. The topmost object will resolve only once each player passes. Thus players always get a chance to respond to new objects put on the stack before they resolve.
2. Lathril's activated ability uses the tap symbol, T, and she does not normally have haste. Thus removal effects used on the same turn she enters the battlefield will ordinarily be effective.
3. There exist older (and one new) spells with the ability "split second". You may want to search Gatherer for an appropriate example. (e.g. Wipe Away)
4. While Lathril is on the stack, she is a spell and may be targeted by any appropriate spell removal/countering effect. (e.g. Cancel)
5. Activated or triggered abilities on the stack may themselves be targeted by appropriate spells. (e.g. Stifle)
I think that's enough ideas. This is turning into a strategy post and not a rules post. I suggest posting in an appropriate part of this forum for more advice.
You may be thinking of split cards:
A split card has a single mana value derived from the sum of each half's cost (except when on the stack).
So yes, the tokens owned by Player B leave with him regardless of who controls them.
2. Triggered abilities have no owner, only a controller. That controller is the same as the controller of the source of the triggered ability. Once triggered, the ability exists independently of its source.
So yes, Player A will put a separate triggered ability on the stack for each Adephage he controlled that did combat damage to a player. This happens after state-based actions cause Player B to lose the game and the tokens leave with him. (Assuming the game continues with additional players, of course) Those abilities exist independently of their now nonexistent sources. They will get to resolve in turn at the appropriate time.
(The personal knowledge of players that a library contains a certain card is irrelevant; the game doesn't know it.)
The ability will continue to do what it can, ignoring instructions that are impossible. In your example, you will still shuffle your library.
Yes. That would work just fine.
As previously stated, the Tomb's ability looks back in time to the game state just before the Crusher leaves the graveyard. At that time, the Tomb is on the battlefield and it's ability is thus able to trigger. The triggered ability will be put on the stack as an object independent of it's source and will resolve even though the Tomb is gone by then.
https://twitter.com/dbernat32/status/1457146187056926720?s=21
That thread lacks any relevant rules quoting to support its conclusion. (There's some rule quoted about hand to hidden zone moves apparently made to deal with a few older cards but nothing on point.) Could you help me by providing any rules to support it?
Replacement effect shufflers (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus) will not work with the Scion because a hidden zone to hidden zone move will prevent the game from knowing any information about the object.
By announcing the choice of creature earlier then you were supposed to, you essentially were proposing a shortcut. The opponent rejected the shortcut by destroying your choice of creature. With the shortcut rejected, upon resolution of the spell, you are free to choose any other creature on the battlefield. (Of course the Oracle, being gone, is not a valid choice.)
Your brother is correct.
Double Major creates a copy of a spell whose copiable characteristics does not include the legendary supertype. When that spell copy resolves, the token that enters the battlefield will likewise not have the legendary supertype in its copiable characteristics.