in the rb build i would run beacon of distruction because if extirpate hits, ur down to 40 cards- your draws, with a stone in play youll hit another one about half the time on the ripple. with 2 stones you can pretty much kill off the ripples.
but he IS good, and will protect you from whatever deck that runs God/Damn as main deck.
Control decks not always have spot removals, so playing him as main will probably cripple your oponent in the first game. Sure, then he`ll sideboard some Sudden Deaths, but he is wasting deck slots just to deal with that one creatuer
but timber protector also deals with wrath and damnation, except it can be tutored for with the treefolk harbinger, as a 2 drop i would rather play edge of autumn or glittering wish with a gaddok as a one of in the board, but i really dont see when you would run him in this deck. also in the agro match i like nameless inversion because its creature removal that can be tutored for with the harbinger.
dont get me wrong, i love doran as much as the next guy, but i still think a deck based around a single card is a big risk. without doran in play ornthoptners are useless, and the llanowar augur is sub optimal. the reason harbinger is great is because it tutors doran, or even a forest if need be, the augur might help but its more of a win more card. the augur il-vec is cute, it becomes a 3/3 with shadow, but again you need doran. against a control deck you wont see doran hit play. you'll tutor him turn 2 with wish, play him 3 and get it countered. u just lost 2 turns of play. i would slow the deck down with timber protector, battlewand treefolk, and maindeck 4 wraths. protector plus wrath equals a free swing with everything else you have. 2x protector plus wrath = gg. doran is awsome, but in an enviornment filled with cryptic command, cancel, runesnag, and what i expect to see more play post rotation, flashfreeze, plus oblivion rings, deathmark, damnation, and wrath, a deck based around a single card wont stand a chance in the control matchup. your better off saying, ok, you counter my doran, next turn drop a timber protector, if every card in the deck is incredible on its own, then he cant counter everything.
and if he can, side in quagnoth and sudden death for the win.
Except if you play the 10/2 championing your harbinger, you can keep getting another one when the first one dies. This, along with the greater elementals, mana acceleration/fixing, and the duality of evoke spells gives elementals a HUGE staying power, greater than treefolk in my opinion.
you forget that if doran is in play that 10/2 elemental is only a 2/2 which will never get by a treefolk, and who cares if you search another 2/2 to the top of your deck.
yeah, this is the deck i've been thinking of so far. I think even though doran is getting all the spotlight, the protector is the real backbone of the deck protecting essentially all your creatures from removal and powering them up. I would might swap rootgrapple for krosan grip, because it can be played along side gaddok teeg, and the primary targets are going to be oblivion rings which the grip can hit anyway. i like wrath of god in the deck too, because even if you have to take out gaddok(which i think is more of a board card for control anyway because timber protector protects your field for ***), timber protector protects your guys and you can wipe your opponants field giving you a free swing at their head.
deathrender wins with 2 mogg fanatics for unlimited damage, darkheart slivers or bottle gnomes for infinite life, composite golem for infinite mana, nantuko husk for a huge creature, and hidden horror works very well, because it allows you to keep saccing it so you win with it and a fanatic, and it allows you to discard another creature to reanimate. spiketail hatchlings create a solid lock, mindless automiton for unlimited draws, acrum dagson can help get it out. martyr of sands, while not infinite can gain rediculous amounts of life, and this isnt even including whatever lorwyn has. I think with cards like rite of flame, lotus bloom, llanowar elves, boreal druid, magus of the vineyard, this card will definantly see play, probably in a RU, or RB deck maybe with a G splash for more mana accel, that can search out the artifact and win with mogg fanatic, and another sac outlet like nantuko husk or hidden horror, or mindless automition or anything that sacs for free, and run bottle gnomes for infinite life and to help fight down agro. overall it seems very constructed worthy, making the only real threat a deck that runs krosan grip and extirpate.
Edit:sorry, read the card wrong, you need to add like enduring renewal or 2 gravediggers, either way, still very breakable
t1- forest+mana creature
t2 - whatever land+ magus of the candelabra (can be played turn one and switch with mana critter, but it doesnt matter)
t3 - whatever land + rings
t4 - land, tap 3 mana and magus for ability, tap 2 to copy it with rings, let the copy resolve untapping 3 lands, tap 3 lands, pay 2 to copy the magus again and end up with one extra mana, repeat. play blaze, conflagrate, disintegrate, wurmcalling, sprout swarm, packmaster, consume spirit, molten disaster if your winning life wise, the possibilities are endless.
ive been running the deck pretty favorably at FNM with a GW base. it gives me access to carven carytid and wall of shards for defense v. aggro, and of course farseek, search for tomorrow, wood elves, and rampant growth. i playlost auramancers to get out coalition victory and sideboard leyline of lifeforce to make i can play both the auramancers and the courier without fear of counters. the real defining element in the deck is congregation at dawn allowing me to search for auramancers, courier, and a wall. with the mana accel, and the auramancers i can usually pull off a win around turn 6-7.
i just came back from a futuresight draft, i won riding on the back of these which were drastically under drafted, and i pulled 6, along side 3 cronomatic escapes, and a reality strobe, a team of 3/3 fliers for 5 i took 1st in the draft.
Assuming you have 4 each of the Tomb, the Magus, and the Specter, your chances of drawing all three are, like, 1 in 20. (I calculated this on p. 6 of this thread, but my numbers were skewed upward by counting Swamps as well.)
A deck that's designed around a 3-card combo that comes up in one of every 20 games played is a bad deck. Any card looks awesome when you invent the perfect situation for it--the second-turn play is not the situation to evaluate this card in, though.
the idea of the deck isnt a 3 card combo, but having the option of hitting a turn 1 any accelerator (llanowar elves, birds, elves of deep shadow) , and turn 2 card advantage engine (hyppie, this, or ohran viper), can really generate card advantage, espescailly with that new storyteller that gives even more card advantage, considering most if not almost all of the cards in the deck shud be creaturesm throw in a nekrataal, and you can make a pretty devastating G/B control deck.
everyone is talking about how great this is in B/U, but i remember a deck that did well for a while running turn 1 mana creature, turn 2 hyppie. now what would happen pumping this out with a turn 1 overgrown tomb, magus of the vinyard, turn 2 swamp, this. swing turn 3 and take out a teferi, or a demonfire, or some other valuble card. i can really see this being run with hyppie, and ohran viper for some derious control and card advantage
there are 180 cards in this set, we must be seeing some equiptments, because they seem to have disapeared, but after reading the first wizards report on the upcoming set, am i the only one amazed to be able to open 3 booster packs and see every card has a different keyword. i mean sure cards can have more than one but this is overkill as far as i can tell. any other ideas on this?
I find that split second cards have done my deck wonders. sudden death and extirpate to get rid of teferi, or any other creature he has, and they can tbe countered. not to mention sulfur elemental, a card i have not seen played much at all, but it is awsome against control, it beats for 3, when an early beater can destroy a dranlu deck, and as long as its in play it devastates both martyr and mesa decks.
I know i dont have many posts, but ive been playing this deck on apprentice since the planar chaos patch was released, and im not thrilled with bob against control, usually he just gets remanded, or countered with a spell snare, if not the first game then definantly the second game. What i did to compete against control with split second cards. i sideboard 4 of's of sudden death, and extirpate. because by hitting teferi with extirpate cripples control, and stops the opponant from being able to use mystical teachings for a skeletal vampire, or a lich, both of which can be sudden deathed as well. another rather interesting choice i made was a 4 of sulfur elemental in the sideboard. it beats for 3 for 3 mana, has flash, and split second so it cant be countered. so in addition to getting the quick damage necessary to have a shot against control, it also destroys any mesa decks by killing all the tokens. finally, i run 3 bathe in light in the sideboard to run against any green agro, or any agro that can get up a quick defense, it is nice because it allows your slivers to not only avoid blockers, (all being white/red), by targeting cautery sliver, but you can use it in response to an attack when playing against a silhana ledgewalker. by targeting another green creature and giving it pro green, removing any pesky moldervine cloaks temporarily, and knocking off a blanchwood armor. Ive had alot of success with this build, and expect it to become a fairly cometitive t2 deck
ive been using this
SB: 4 threaten
SB: 4 Sudden Death
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 3 Cryoclasm
1 Swamp
2 Browbeat
2 Plains
3 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Godless Shrine
4 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Helix
4 Rift Bolt
4 Char
4 Bonesplitter Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
4 Cautery Sliver
and so far ive been able to win against virtually every agro deck in the format. I sideboard in the sudden death, and extirpate to kill teferi, and then extirpate it to cripple dralnu decks and other control decks. the only real problem i have is versus scryb and force, where i sideboard in the threatens. with all the burn i can consistently goldfish by turn 4 almost every draw, and can typically win before dragonstorm goes off. i tried necrotic sliver, but it slows down the deck far too much to be worth it. i really hope to see a red 1cc sliver come in FS or another 2mana sliver that falls into the mana curver thats effieient enough as an agro. let me no if you have any suggestions. right now my worst match is dralnu, but i can still win about 30-40% of the time with sudden death and extirpates.
but timber protector also deals with wrath and damnation, except it can be tutored for with the treefolk harbinger, as a 2 drop i would rather play edge of autumn or glittering wish with a gaddok as a one of in the board, but i really dont see when you would run him in this deck. also in the agro match i like nameless inversion because its creature removal that can be tutored for with the harbinger.
and if he can, side in quagnoth and sudden death for the win.
you forget that if doran is in play that 10/2 elemental is only a 2/2 which will never get by a treefolk, and who cares if you search another 2/2 to the top of your deck.
Edit:sorry, read the card wrong, you need to add like enduring renewal or 2 gravediggers, either way, still very breakable
t2 - whatever land+ magus of the candelabra (can be played turn one and switch with mana critter, but it doesnt matter)
t3 - whatever land + rings
t4 - land, tap 3 mana and magus for ability, tap 2 to copy it with rings, let the copy resolve untapping 3 lands, tap 3 lands, pay 2 to copy the magus again and end up with one extra mana, repeat. play blaze, conflagrate, disintegrate, wurmcalling, sprout swarm, packmaster, consume spirit, molten disaster if your winning life wise, the possibilities are endless.
the idea of the deck isnt a 3 card combo, but having the option of hitting a turn 1 any accelerator (llanowar elves, birds, elves of deep shadow) , and turn 2 card advantage engine (hyppie, this, or ohran viper), can really generate card advantage, espescailly with that new storyteller that gives even more card advantage, considering most if not almost all of the cards in the deck shud be creaturesm throw in a nekrataal, and you can make a pretty devastating G/B control deck.
SB: 4 threaten
SB: 4 Sudden Death
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 3 Cryoclasm
1 Swamp
2 Browbeat
2 Plains
3 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Godless Shrine
4 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Helix
4 Rift Bolt
4 Char
4 Bonesplitter Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
4 Cautery Sliver
and so far ive been able to win against virtually every agro deck in the format. I sideboard in the sudden death, and extirpate to kill teferi, and then extirpate it to cripple dralnu decks and other control decks. the only real problem i have is versus scryb and force, where i sideboard in the threatens. with all the burn i can consistently goldfish by turn 4 almost every draw, and can typically win before dragonstorm goes off. i tried necrotic sliver, but it slows down the deck far too much to be worth it. i really hope to see a red 1cc sliver come in FS or another 2mana sliver that falls into the mana curver thats effieient enough as an agro. let me no if you have any suggestions. right now my worst match is dralnu, but i can still win about 30-40% of the time with sudden death and extirpates.