I'm running 3 Traverse in the side. I had been running 4 previously, but cut them down to 3 to fit in a Huntmaster.
One thing I notice about Traverse is that opponents seem to be expecting a Blood Moon when they see you cast that early. Some hands with a Traverse just require you to fetch Stomping Grounds>Traverse for an island. On the play, it can be a clear indicator that basics matter to you, which means they start fetching accordingly. So against Tri-color midrange decks, you may sort of lose that Gotcha! factor by slamming a Blood Moon. That being said, most decent players account for the possibility of a Blood Moon game 2 anyways.
The only reason I'm not running it main right now is that my current meta is still just tons of linear aggro. Having interaction online turn 1 feels crucial against those kind of decks. Losing 4 Shoals feels like it forces me into more Mulligans to dig for the proper interaction.
The list I've been testing has been close to yours RUGJester. I'm doing (-4 probe, +1 Scour, +2 Sleight, +1 Wooded Foothills).
I thought I was going to despise Sleight of Hand, but I'm finding that it's actually decent. The instant card selection has come in hand plenty of times, but I always dislike seeing it in my opener, so 2 seems like the right amount if trying to run any. I've been running a Traverse package in the side, but dropped down to 3 Traverse to fit a 1 of Huntmaster of the Fells. So far, I'm liking that change. It's a nice option to search up versus Affinity and Merfolk.
If the meta shakes out to the Midrange heavy format that many are predicting, I'll probably head back to the mainboard Traverse version.
Well, I decided to give the new Traverse list a roll at a GPT. I didn’t use the exact list, since I had no Engineered Explosives for the side and I was rushed for time, so I didn’t have time to dig out a Dismember. I put an extra Vapor Snag in the place of the mainboard Dismember and an Ancient Grudge in place of the EE in the side. I went 2-3. It was pretty rough. Here’s just a brief summary. 0-2 vs Burn
I sorely missed Disrupting Shoal in this matchup. Burn used to be a fairly easy matchup, but I often found myself just too slow, or holding the wrong interaction. (i.e. holding bolts when they had spells, or having a Stubborn Denial when they had creatures).
2-0 vs Death’s Shadow Zoo
This matchup went well. The deck did what it was supposed to do. I dropped early threats, backed up by interaction. Both matches I was able to wedge a when by countering their all-in kill with Temur Battle Rage on a Death’s Shadow.
2-0 vs Taking Turns
Early threats backed up by counter magic got me the W both games.
0-2 vs Jeskai Delver
Normally Jeskai Delver decks are kind of bad, so I didn’t take it seriously. First game he straight outgrinded me. Second game, I boarded in to a more midrange configuration, complete with Blood Moon, Bedlam Revelers and Huntmaster of the Fells. He was wise to Moons, fetched around them and Snapcaster Mage ‘d his way to victory. (This loss was the greatest bruise to my ego. I hate losing to other tri-color Delver decks).
2-1 Burn
Burn again. This was another matchup where I sorely missed Shoal.
Conclusions: Until the new meta shakes out, I can’t justify leaving Shoal out of my list. Traverse is nice in games where you have some room to breathe, but I didn’t have a chance to breathe all night. I’m going to tinker a bit with builds using Sleight of Hand. If Grixis Control and Jund rise up with the banning of Gitaxian Probe and the introduction of Fatal Push, then I'll probably come back to the Traverse/Bauble plan.
Hey guys, long time lurker. Been constantly scamming to see what people have been coming up with since the probe ban. Can't say I am super crazy about the Traverse plan but I might give it a try. Something I always wanted to give a chance but never got around to it was deprive. I know everyone always said that shoal was simply better, but with shoal mostly being cut I thought I might at least bring it into the discussion. I assume people will say it just isn't needed or why not just run spells are assumed those aren't necessarily wrong answers to my question. I just always loved the deck because of the wide range of obscure cards like tarfire, simic charm, shoal, denial. And deprive is another garbage spell that I would love to at least try and pretend is good.
If we're running an extra Snap and a set of Huntmasters in the side, it's even more important to hit land drops. Snap is essentially a 3-4 cmc drop if you want to actually use him effectively. Without ways of cheating on mana (Gitaxian Probe and Disrupting Shoal), I would be hard pressed to play a hard counter that would put the deck behind on a land drop.
I will miss my poor foil Disrupting Shoals. I figured they would be getting the boot with the ban of Probe. Though I wish I could find a way to keep them in, Countering spells while tapped out, always felt good.
I feel you. Casting my Italian "Branco Smembrante" always felt pretty good. Explaining it to people who'd never heard of the card...that I could do without.
That is what Stoddard Said "While Splinter Twin didn't have any other good options" means Twin was the exception to what he was saying.
I think he forgets to mention Birthing Pod as well.
Abzan Chord became a pretty solid deck to beat for a while using many of the same cards that were in Pod. The heart of the deck is still there, but without it ascending to tier 0.5 levels. All the grave hate flying around and the way the infinite life combo works on MTGO kind of make the deck unplayable in both paper and online.
Do you understand what the word budget means? Goyfs biggest problem is not graveyard hate, it is that he costs 150 dollars.
I'm just saying, decks that typically even want Goyf are expensive already. Anyone trying to be budget friendly should probably be avoiding those decks anyways, since they're a stack of high dollar cards that try to use the most efficient cards possible.
Greenwheel Liberator and a fetchland is a nice budget goyf. Better if the oponents run gravyard hate.
I disagree. The main reasons that Goyf is so good are because he dodges Bolt, he's a superb topdeck as well as an on-curve threat and because he can trade favorably with pretty much any creature in combat without dying. This guy does none of those things. Goyf's only downside is that he takes a huge hit when people are packing Rest in Peace and Ravenous Trap to combat dread.
Most decks that actually run Goyf can't really afford running a budget version and other decks that run green that don't cost tons of $$$ don't even want Goyf.
I'd keep the first. It has perfect lands for setting up your mana for the game. Turn 1 Gitaxian Probe to decipher their hand. Then, depending on what is in their hand, either hold up Tarfire or Stubborn Denial to take care of their turn 1 play, or if they have nothing particularly threatening in their hand, fetch Steam Vents and cast Serum Visions to dig for threats. You have Spell Snare as backup for their turn 2 play.
Second one is a little tougher. The initial scry and Git Probes make it likely to hit a land. Visions might have to be used to prioritize a second land drop and there's no protection for Tarmogoyf if he does make it out by turn 2. I'd probably ditch it if I was on the play. On the draw, I might keep it.
What are the chances of Blood Moon getting the ban hammer? It's unfun to play against. It punishes players for streamlining their manabase. If played well, it can suddenly lock the opponent out of the game.
Currently? I'd say 0%. Blood Moon is a necessary evil in my opinion and always will be.
"It's unfun to play against." - This is not a reason to ban a card. If it was, hundreds of cards would fall into this bucket.
"It punishes players for streamlining their manabase." - Since when was making a mana base as greedy as possible looked at as streamlining?
This guy gets it. Right now, non-basic lands run amok on the format. Tons of people clamor for a Eldrazi Temple ban, or a Cavern of Souls ban. Meanwhile Inkmoth Nexus is an all-star in both Infect and Affinity. About the only playable tools to fight these cards are Ghost Quarter which presents an awful tempo loss and Fullminator Mage which often is an answer that comes too vs many of these decks. Lands are far too strong right now for Blood Moon NOT to exist in the format.
And if you're playing a multicolor mana-base? Well, you should be fetching around a Moon or at the very least, don't expect there to be zero consequence for jamming every multi-color value card in a 3 color deck and expecting everything to just be gravy. Blood Moon itself requires you to build a mana base that can support it, so it's not like there's zero opportunity cost to running it.
My list is Jordan's list from his Modern Nexus report, but with a worse fetch setup. I've been running that setup since I no longer have access to Scalding Tarns until I can snag some up. I do run Mandrills mainboard and they still feel pretty great in a lot matches. I previously ran the Huntmaster setup, with 2 Tarfire mainboard and no Vapor Snags. I was running Simic Charm instead.
I finally switched to the Reveler plan this week and then hit the LGS for weekly modern night. My list is basically Jordan's PPTQ list, aside from 4 Wooded Foothills and 1 Polluted Delta.
Went 3-0-1. Beat Infect, Death & Taxes and Grishoalbrand. Drew with Grixis Control, but I would have had game 3 had we not gone to time. Had I played a bit faster, I think I could have taken the game, since were both out of cards in hand on turn 5 and the board state had just had a Reveler on my side and a Snapcaster on his side. Last turn, I drew a Traverse, but couldn't search up a Reveler, since the other was in the yard. Had him down to 4, my life total was considerably higher.
Spite of Mogis over-performed. Blasting for 5-6 damage for a mere R, followed by a scry, feels good. Even just sending a Heiracrh to the grave on turn 2, then getting a scry felt really powerful. My commendations to you guys for coming up with that tech.
The list feels really solid and streamlined. The increase in number of Tarfires/Vapor Snags in the mainboard feels really good to. Rest in Peace ruined one game for me. Even though I had a Destructive Revelry for it right away, it still shut off the 2 traverses I drew into over the next few turns, but that was the only time I even missed the Huntmaster package.
So Im curious: If you guys couldn't use goyf what card would you use in its place?
I mean I'm currently on a budget so I can't afford the goyfs but I know that shouldn't deter the deck but what would your alternative be if you woke up and goyf was banned tomorrow morning.
I would switch decks.
Fair but not all that helpful. I've been looking at Quirion dryad as it grows and was a part of the original Miracle Grow that the deck is named for but I'm also looking at Young Pyromancer and a few others but was curious if there was more than just don't play the deck.
Goyf really has no replacement. This deck wins by having superior threats on board and Goyf might be a big dumb beat-stick, but he's the best one there is. If you can't afford him, you're probably better off cutting green and going straight UR, or switching to Grixis.
Quirion Dryad is cute and she used to be a contender waaaay back in the day, but she takes too long to build into a respectable threat, she's an awful top deck and she's very vulnerable burn for a few turns.
If you're looking for budget advice, the budget forums might be more useful for you.
Yeah, my list is the one with the embarrassing Polluted Delta and Wooded Foothills mess going on in the land base and the old Huntmaster sideboard plan.
Top 8'd at an SCG IQ this weekend, but got tossed out in the first round (I'm still on the old Huntmaster list). Beat: Affinity, Naya Blitz, Double Moon Walkers. Lost to Elves, just barely on turn 5 of time being called(super fun games though) and Affinity. Not exactly a high profile finish or anything (and I suspect GP Indy pulled a large amount of players from this), but felt pretty good either way.
Round 1 vs Affinity (2-1)
Round 2 vs Elves (1-2)
Round 3 vs Naya Blitz (2-1)
Round 4 vs Double Moon Walkers (2-0)
Round 5 vs Affinity (0-2)
That was enough to get me into the 5th spot in top 8.
Lost to Jeskai Ascendancy in round 1 of Top 8 (1-2).
One thing I notice about Traverse is that opponents seem to be expecting a Blood Moon when they see you cast that early. Some hands with a Traverse just require you to fetch Stomping Grounds>Traverse for an island. On the play, it can be a clear indicator that basics matter to you, which means they start fetching accordingly. So against Tri-color midrange decks, you may sort of lose that Gotcha! factor by slamming a Blood Moon. That being said, most decent players account for the possibility of a Blood Moon game 2 anyways.
The only reason I'm not running it main right now is that my current meta is still just tons of linear aggro. Having interaction online turn 1 feels crucial against those kind of decks. Losing 4 Shoals feels like it forces me into more Mulligans to dig for the proper interaction.
I thought I was going to despise Sleight of Hand, but I'm finding that it's actually decent. The instant card selection has come in hand plenty of times, but I always dislike seeing it in my opener, so 2 seems like the right amount if trying to run any. I've been running a Traverse package in the side, but dropped down to 3 Traverse to fit a 1 of Huntmaster of the Fells. So far, I'm liking that change. It's a nice option to search up versus Affinity and Merfolk.
If the meta shakes out to the Midrange heavy format that many are predicting, I'll probably head back to the mainboard Traverse version.
0-2 vs Burn
I sorely missed Disrupting Shoal in this matchup. Burn used to be a fairly easy matchup, but I often found myself just too slow, or holding the wrong interaction. (i.e. holding bolts when they had spells, or having a Stubborn Denial when they had creatures).
2-0 vs Death’s Shadow Zoo
This matchup went well. The deck did what it was supposed to do. I dropped early threats, backed up by interaction. Both matches I was able to wedge a when by countering their all-in kill with Temur Battle Rage on a Death’s Shadow.
2-0 vs Taking Turns
Early threats backed up by counter magic got me the W both games.
0-2 vs Jeskai Delver
Normally Jeskai Delver decks are kind of bad, so I didn’t take it seriously. First game he straight outgrinded me. Second game, I boarded in to a more midrange configuration, complete with Blood Moon, Bedlam Revelers and Huntmaster of the Fells. He was wise to Moons, fetched around them and Snapcaster Mage ‘d his way to victory. (This loss was the greatest bruise to my ego. I hate losing to other tri-color Delver decks).
2-1 Burn
Burn again. This was another matchup where I sorely missed Shoal.
Conclusions: Until the new meta shakes out, I can’t justify leaving Shoal out of my list. Traverse is nice in games where you have some room to breathe, but I didn’t have a chance to breathe all night. I’m going to tinker a bit with builds using Sleight of Hand. If Grixis Control and Jund rise up with the banning of Gitaxian Probe and the introduction of Fatal Push, then I'll probably come back to the Traverse/Bauble plan.
If we're running an extra Snap and a set of Huntmasters in the side, it's even more important to hit land drops. Snap is essentially a 3-4 cmc drop if you want to actually use him effectively. Without ways of cheating on mana (Gitaxian Probe and Disrupting Shoal), I would be hard pressed to play a hard counter that would put the deck behind on a land drop.
I feel you. Casting my Italian "Branco Smembrante" always felt pretty good. Explaining it to people who'd never heard of the card...that I could do without.
Abzan Chord became a pretty solid deck to beat for a while using many of the same cards that were in Pod. The heart of the deck is still there, but without it ascending to tier 0.5 levels. All the grave hate flying around and the way the infinite life combo works on MTGO kind of make the deck unplayable in both paper and online.
I'm just saying, decks that typically even want Goyf are expensive already. Anyone trying to be budget friendly should probably be avoiding those decks anyways, since they're a stack of high dollar cards that try to use the most efficient cards possible.
I disagree. The main reasons that Goyf is so good are because he dodges Bolt, he's a superb topdeck as well as an on-curve threat and because he can trade favorably with pretty much any creature in combat without dying. This guy does none of those things. Goyf's only downside is that he takes a huge hit when people are packing Rest in Peace and Ravenous Trap to combat dread.
Most decks that actually run Goyf can't really afford running a budget version and other decks that run green that don't cost tons of $$$ don't even want Goyf.
I'd keep the first. It has perfect lands for setting up your mana for the game. Turn 1 Gitaxian Probe to decipher their hand. Then, depending on what is in their hand, either hold up Tarfire or Stubborn Denial to take care of their turn 1 play, or if they have nothing particularly threatening in their hand, fetch Steam Vents and cast Serum Visions to dig for threats. You have Spell Snare as backup for their turn 2 play.
Second one is a little tougher. The initial scry and Git Probes make it likely to hit a land. Visions might have to be used to prioritize a second land drop and there's no protection for Tarmogoyf if he does make it out by turn 2. I'd probably ditch it if I was on the play. On the draw, I might keep it.
This guy gets it. Right now, non-basic lands run amok on the format. Tons of people clamor for a Eldrazi Temple ban, or a Cavern of Souls ban. Meanwhile Inkmoth Nexus is an all-star in both Infect and Affinity. About the only playable tools to fight these cards are Ghost Quarter which presents an awful tempo loss and Fullminator Mage which often is an answer that comes too vs many of these decks. Lands are far too strong right now for Blood Moon NOT to exist in the format.
And if you're playing a multicolor mana-base? Well, you should be fetching around a Moon or at the very least, don't expect there to be zero consequence for jamming every multi-color value card in a 3 color deck and expecting everything to just be gravy. Blood Moon itself requires you to build a mana base that can support it, so it's not like there's zero opportunity cost to running it.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Disrupting Shoal
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtscour
3 Mana Leak
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Tarfire
2 Vapor Snag
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Bedlam Reveler
3 Blood Moon
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Spite of Mogis
2 Pyroclasm
Went 3-0-1. Beat Infect, Death & Taxes and Grishoalbrand. Drew with Grixis Control, but I would have had game 3 had we not gone to time. Had I played a bit faster, I think I could have taken the game, since were both out of cards in hand on turn 5 and the board state had just had a Reveler on my side and a Snapcaster on his side. Last turn, I drew a Traverse, but couldn't search up a Reveler, since the other was in the yard. Had him down to 4, my life total was considerably higher.
Spite of Mogis over-performed. Blasting for 5-6 damage for a mere R, followed by a scry, feels good. Even just sending a Heiracrh to the grave on turn 2, then getting a scry felt really powerful. My commendations to you guys for coming up with that tech.
The list feels really solid and streamlined. The increase in number of Tarfires/Vapor Snags in the mainboard feels really good to. Rest in Peace ruined one game for me. Even though I had a Destructive Revelry for it right away, it still shut off the 2 traverses I drew into over the next few turns, but that was the only time I even missed the Huntmaster package.
Goyf really has no replacement. This deck wins by having superior threats on board and Goyf might be a big dumb beat-stick, but he's the best one there is. If you can't afford him, you're probably better off cutting green and going straight UR, or switching to Grixis.
Quirion Dryad is cute and she used to be a contender waaaay back in the day, but she takes too long to build into a respectable threat, she's an awful top deck and she's very vulnerable burn for a few turns.
If you're looking for budget advice, the budget forums might be more useful for you.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/budget-modern
Round 1 vs Affinity (2-1)
Round 2 vs Elves (1-2)
Round 3 vs Naya Blitz (2-1)
Round 4 vs Double Moon Walkers (2-0)
Round 5 vs Affinity (0-2)
That was enough to get me into the 5th spot in top 8.
Lost to Jeskai Ascendancy in round 1 of Top 8 (1-2).