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  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    @sensei also lowman said that that he would second life from the loam. so that should be added the unbanning list.

    I personally like the idea of 2/3s better than 3/4s which seems too steep. but I do like the idea of a minimum number of voters as well. I would like 9 minimum voters or we keep the current ban list, but only require a 2/3s vote to ban or unban a card.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    I second the banning of natural order
    I second the unbanning of trinisphere, lion's eye diamond, and memory jar.

    and I don't know if these have been mentioned. But I nominate life from the loam and crucible of worlds for unbanning.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    Quote from Michelle_Wong »
    As far as I'm aware, no one in the s100 community has the right (not to mention coding ability) to update the legality list in Gatherling. Those who do have the admin rights and coding knowledge are volunteers and we can't demand any timeframes (in fact we're very grateful that they do anything at all, because it's all volunteer work). And in fact they do a great job for us.

    It only takes 20 seconds to read the ban list on Page 1 of the forum. If anyone has been absent for a few weeks, then there's even more reason to take a quick glance at Page 1 of the forum, which will summarise the conclusions reached in any discussions in recent forum threads. This will save you the need to read through weeks of recent forum posts. Plus, even on Gatherling, the link to the chainsaw event takes you directly to Page 1 of the forum thread, to make it even easier to perform the quick glance.

    (Also, for interest, other player run events follow the same protocol as us, for example in Classic Heirloom there are cards which are banned on Page 1 of the forum thread, but appear as legal in Gatherling. Page 1 prevails. I know this because I have had to concede to my opponent in the past because I failed to read Page 1 of the Classic Heirloom thread and just assumed that the deck which Gatherling accepted was fine. That incident taught me to read Page 1 in future, and I also hope that players read this post so that they don't make the same mistake which I and gumgod made, because it's something very easy to make and easy to avoid).


    I think ML_Berlin probably has the ability to make changes to the legality list. no coding is required for this. It is adding brand new sets that likely requires a bit of PHP, though there may be a way to import these cards sets via api, but I digress. If ml does not have permission to update legality in his tourney he could certainly get it, when I started my own shortly lived PRE I set up my own legality list and made changes when new sets came out. It is basically a bunch of check boxes for sets and you simply search for cards to add to your banned list (or restricted list). I think having a message that says a card is banned in gatherling is a much simpler solution than expecting someone to go to the website read the list and cross reference. Even with an accurate list in gatherling people still have problems submitting legal decks and berlin has to go and fix things...
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    I will look at each of the cards you mentioned in turn. I think you underestimate how good tutors are in a singleton format even in non-combo decks they allow you to effectually play 2 copies of all of your best cards. also they allow combo to be an actual force in the tournament, which I'm fine wtih but some people may not like. also many of the cards you mentioned were in the wizards 100 card singleton banned list. while we went through and unbanned a very small number of things from the list (and banned a few of our own), we didn't discuss most of the preexisting bans at length.

    crucible of worlds is banned only because it was on the original 100 card singleton banned list back when it was a supported mtgo format. I think it is safe to unban.

    demonic tutor-- I don't think unbanning one of the best tutors in a singleton 100 card format is a good idea. this card is 4 points in canadian highlander being able to get any card in a singleton format is very powerful.

    dig through time--i think should be banned. this format plays a lot like legacy, and it is basically a 2 mana fact or fiction much of the time. it was card that was basically in 100% of blue decks, and I think blue is easily the strongest color in this format, no reason to unban it.

    entomb-- banned in the last round of bannings. i think the card is strong, probably 1 of the safer cards on the list to unban, however if you unban other tutors on this list it could easily be broken. with this unbanned i think reanimator becomes tier 1.

    flash-- without tutors flash hulk isn't exactly easy to pull off. this would be risk to unban, but there are similar combos in the format now like, grindstone/painter's servant, rest in peace/helm of obedience. the difference this only costs 2 mana if you have it... idk. I would err on the side of leaving it banned.

    gifts ungiven--i think this card is far to strong to be unbanned, certainly there are unburial rights shenanigans and some other cards like recoup that can make for some very degenrate combos. I think this will often win the game if it resolves... I don't think that is what this format needs. if yawg will and life from the loam are unbanned this problem gets even worse.

    Intuition--this is a powerful tutor, I think it is strong in reanimator and a few other comboish decks, it is probably onr of the safer tutors that is currently banned to unban. if life from the loam becomes unbanned this needs to stay banned.

    life from the loam-- I would be fine with this being unbanned assuming entomb, intuition, gifts ungiven remain banned.

    mana drain--this was banned recently because people dislike how swingy it is. I think it is one of the less powerful cards on the list and have no real opinion either way.

    mystical tutor--I think this card is very good it is card disadvantage, however tutor is very powerful in this format a tutor at instant speed that costs 1 even more so. I would keep this banned.

    oath of druids--this was banned in the most recent series of bannings. I think i was one of the biggest proponents of banning it. I had gone 6-0 with an oath deck the week before. I think the card is extremely strong in a combo deck or in a control deck. an oath on turn 2 or 3 almost always wins the game.

    sensei's divining top--I think people overestimate this card. it is really only good with shuffle effects. most decks can't even play all 10 fetch lands. it is searchable with tinket mage and it does combo with counterbalance but i still think the card is fine. there are lots of time outs in 100 card already as long as we keep the low time limit i think unbanning this is fine.

    stoneforge mystic--great card, which tutors, and puts whatever equipment you need most into play avoiding counters. it is also easily splashable. no way should it be unbanned.

    treasure cruise--i think this should stay banned. three cards is a lot. it isn't as good as dig through time in my opinion, but it does often get cast for 1 or 2 mana in this format. it isn't vintage where you can do that on turn 2 but it is still too powerful. also blue is the best color without this no reason to give them more tools

    trinisphere-- this was also on the original wizards 100 card banned list. I also see no reason for it to be banned. it is the safest card on this whole list imo

    yawg will-- this was banned on the original wizards list. I fine with this being unbanned if entomb, intuition and gifts ungiven stay banned.

    birthing pod--I voted for this to be banned last time. it is a very powerful card in grindy matchups, wins the game if it is draw, imo it should be banned.

    bazaar--this isn't banned don't think it should be. not actually sure why it was mentioned. I don't think dredge has the tools to win consistently in this format. I'm not sure why it matters if people want to play an interactive match. mono-red isn't particularly interactive doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate strategy.

    bribery-- this card is fine. there are decks like mono-red where it is laughable bad. sometimes this is a great creature like primetime, sometimes it wins the game immediately with something like emrakul, sometimes it is terrible and gets a painter's servant or hellrider. it also verifies that your opponents deck is legal which is a nice bonus. my standards for banning a card that is sorcery speed and costs 5 mana are quite high this doesn't get there.

    natural order--probably should be banned. I've not really seen people play progenitus, but this card can just win the game if they do.

    --cards I've not seen mentioned---

    there are a lot of dedicated combo cards like wheel of fortune, windfall, Memory Jar, Mind's Desire. many of these in isolation are probably fine but together would be very powerful.

    Of all the cards mentioned i would unban:

    life from the loam,
    crucible of worlds
    trinisphere
    mind's desire
    memory jar
    sensei's divining top
    merchant scroll

    I would ban:
    natural order
    birthing pod

    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Monday Australian Singleton every Monday at 8:00pm EST
    8pm eastern standard time is a the east coast time zone for the United States. it would be sometime on tuesday morning in australia.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Monday Australian Singleton every Monday at 8:00pm EST
    Monday Australian Singleton

    Monday Australian Singleton is a weekly MTGO event that occurs on 8:00pm EST on mondays. The event is in Australian Highlander format (described below). The event is free to enter, but currently has no prizes (many player run events have bot credit as prizes and I will be emailing bot chains to see if this is something we can add in the future).

    Format rules

    Australian Highlander is a vintage singleton 60 card format, so nothing is banned (as far as online is concerned). However, very powerful cards are limited through a points list. Your deck is allowed 7 points worth of the following cards:

    4 points:
    Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus
    3 points:
    Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Sol Ring, Time Vault, Time Walk, Tinker, Vampiric Tutor, Yawgmoth’s Will.
    2 points:
    Channel, Library of Alexandria, Mana Crypt, Mind Twist, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Ruby, Mox Sapphire, Mystical Tutor, Skullclamp, Strip Mine, Tolarian Academy.
    1 point:
    Balance, Birthing Pod, Dig Through Time, Enlightened Tutor, Fastbond, Flash, Force of Will, Gifts Ungiven, Green Sun’s Zenith, Hermit Druid, Intuition, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Karakas, Lim-Dul’s Vault, Mana Drain, Mana Vault, Muddle the Mixture, Oath of Druids, Memory Jar, Merchant Scroll, Personal Tutor, Protean Hulk, Snapcaster Mage, Steelshaper’s Gift, Stoneforge Mystic, Survival of the Fittest, Tainted Pact, Time Spiral, Timetwister, Treasure Cruise, True-Name Nemesis, Umezawa’s Jitte, Yawgmoth’s Bargain, Wasteland, Wheel of Fortune, Worldly Tutor.

    Therefore a deck may contain for example:

    Ancestral recall and Demonic Tutor for a total of 7 points
    Or
    Balance, Stoneforge mystic, Enlightened Tutor, Mox Pearl, and Skullclamp for a total of 7 points

    Event rules
    To play in this event the following must be true

    1. Have an account a gatherling.com (these are free and easy to set up)
    2. Register for the event with a legal deck--gatherling.com will only check if you deck is vintage legal and a singleton deck it will not check the number of points your deck has. Cards with a point value must be listed in the comment box on the deck submission page (it is easy to find and says comments right next to it). List all cards with a points value and the total number of points your deck is must be 7 or below to be legal.
    3. Be in the chat room AusHighlander when the event starts at 8:00pm on monday. If you have not used gatherling.com before please come early and people will be able to help you.

    Tournament Structure:


    8-15: 3 rounds of swiss with a top 4 cut
    16-19: 3 rounds of swiss with a top 8 cut
    20 or more: 4 rounds of swiss with a top 8 cut
    Matches will take place in the Getting Serious room.
    Matches must be constructed as follows:

    Format: Vintage
    Watchers Allowed: Yes
    2 Wins per Match
    25min Clock
    Labeled as "Australian Highlander Round x"

    Final note:

    Due to the lack of filter in Mtgo we won't be able to tell if our opponent's deck is really a legal deck.
    How do we overcome this issue?
    Mostly, by trusting each other. But also by enforcing harsh, brutal rules against cheaters. And I'm talking about IMMEDIATE, PERMANENT BAN FROM ALL GATHERLING PLAY to whoever is caught taking advantage of the missing filter.
    There are cards that search opponent’s library such as Acquire, Bribery, (Hide/)Seek and Praetor's Grasp! A quick snapshot of the screen (first enlarge the space for the library cards), and you have the proof.
    MAKE SURE YOUR DECK IS LEGAL FOR THE FORMAT!!
    Currently there are no prizes for this event. There is literally no incentive to cheat… please don’t ruin these events for those who enjoy them.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    In response to Charles8avier with the gatherling account problems. Dabil no longer is involved in gatherling.com as far as I know. you could message longtimegone, who could maybe help you.

    about the timer. 2 weeks ago my only loss was to the timer... it sucks to lose to the timer, but i would still rather have the matches at 25 minutes, so the event goes a bit more quickly, also we have had problems with people doing shady things when the timer was 40 minutes... so avoiding that would be good as well.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    I like the new prize structure. I prefer 4 rounds even if the pairings are unfair.

    as for banning

    I think mana drain, birthing pod, oath should be banned. I could go either way on entomb (robert was the only person who really played reanimator. I think the card is too good but no one is abusing it.) I actually think mana drain is the weakest card between the three, and birthing pod is the strongest. I creates so much value and can find so many silver bullet type creatures as well as combo kills. oath is very strong if you build around it, but requires a bit of weird deck construction. mana drain is just a counterspell the majority of the time, sometime it can provide huge tempo swings, but I don't think this is that common. That said I would ban all three.

    I think brainstorm, thirst for knowledge, ponder, and lotus petal should be unbanned (as well as life from the loam and sensei's divining top, but that is probably just me)

    I think strip mine should stay banned.

    dig through time and wasteland should stay legal.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    I really didn't think size 10 font would be that large... I guess I should have just bolded my section titles...
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Singleton 100 , every Saturday 4.00 PM EST/EDT presented by MtgoCardmarket
    Topic of banned lists
    I think banning a card that any single person thinks is broken is probably wrong. I definitely fall on the side of fewer bans, and I believe fewer bans are healthier for a format, but I can understand the other perspective. There was a time when lots more cards were legal in 100 card like mystical tutor, survival of the fittest, and life from the loam. These cards were banned for power reasons, but there were also cards that were banned because the banned list was ravaged in the deletion of the classic format and the creation of vintage. I don't know exactly what the programmers did but suddenly legacy legal cards like brainstorm and ponder were banned for no reason, and mana drain was unbanned during this time as well (skullclamp for a short time as well though luckily that was fixed). I would love the opportunity to vote on a list were everything with over 50% voting gets banned. In my mind a card like coercive portal is nowhere near getting banned, it is an easily answerable permanent that doesn't affect the board immediately... we have a format with cards like snapcaster mage, green sun's zenith, birthing pod and jace, the mind sculptur... the card may be an auto-include for you, but I have yet to play it in a deck.

    On the topic of wasteland I think it is important to have an answer to utility lands with out crazy limits on it--ie your opponent having 4 lands you paying 3 or 4 mana or them ending up with an extra mana from the exchange. I also agree with Robert's point about banning cards based on price to replace them with more powerful lower price cards is the wrong answer, and would set the wrong precedent. I would keep wasteland unbanned, the card may lead to the occasional unfun game, but without life from the loam or crucible of worlds I think the card is fair. certainly there other ways to recur, but ussually they will only bring it back once.

    As for switching to modern 100 card singleton, as far as I'm concerned that should be a new event. If it was separate I might even play in it occasionally, but I think you again run into banned list questions like should punishing fire really be banned when you can play only 1 with 1 grove of the burnwillows, and is banning storm cards really necessary (rite of flame is pretty abysmal as a 1 of)

    I think most broken cards that a currently legal are birthing pod, oath of druids, green sun's zenith, and mana drain. The first 3 of these cards are made extremely strong by the 100 card format and the amount of card selection they give. I think all of these cards are arguable better than brainstorm, ponder, lotus petal and thirst for knowledge all of which are banned.

    Also I think wizards doesn't create cards because some are unfun, not because they are too good, wizards has shown with cards like baby jace, dig through time, treasure cruise, snapcaster mage, siege rhino and Liliana of the veil; that they are more than willing to print extremely powerful cards that effect legacy and even vintage. Instead what they no longer print are cards that players who want to cast large creatures think are "unfun" which means playable unconditional countspells and land destruction. Look at a card like vindicate it isn't too powerful it is worse than every card I just mentioned however it can blow up lands therefore we see cards like abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse instead. The reason we don't see some of the cards you don't like is because of the current design philosophy of R+D not because of power level.

    Topic of tourney structure
    I still think going to a swiss tourney with a set prize for x-0 and a set prize for x-1 finishers would be good for the tourney. Everyone would get to play 4 rounds unless there are drops, which is think is good for the health of the format. it would be great if 4-0 gets 4 tickets every 3-1 (most likely 2 people) gets 2 tickets and the remaining are distributed as door prizes, the payout could even be changed, but I do like the idea of a set round event where people will never be the victim of a tiebreaker, gatherling understands it without fiddling around a lot, and everyone can play multiple rounds even if they lose


    sorry for the long meandering post...
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Wotc/Lee: Bring Back 100 Card Singleton!
    I guess to clarify Sunday at 3pm est would be fine during an event discussion an earlier time like 1pm was mentioned and that would likely not work for me :/.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
  • posted a message on Wotc/Lee: Bring Back 100 Card Singleton!
    I would favor saturday because I rarely play in heirloom events, but I often play in the vintage events on sunday at 11am est.
    Posted in: Other MTGO Formats
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