I think there is something to running at least a playset of one of them, though, since worst case it makes your deck 56 cards, kinda turbo xerox style.
The reason I have a hard time with this is more because when you are dredging through your deck and casting Faithless Looting, maybe cycling some lands, using Dark Confidant to get even deeper, you see most of your deck. That means if you dredge something like a Conflagrate or Lingering Souls it's card advantage. From what I've seen, most loam lists are tight because they start off with 34-35 slots, 8 of which is the combo, so the rest have to work to smooth out your deck, probably 8-12 threats with some removal. I think the typical Loam deck shouldn't run Street Wraith for the same reason Jund doesn't play Street Wraith, with the super high number of threats and removal, the goal of the deck is to grind, and I would rather have another threat or something that does something out of my graveyard rather than another redraw.
The reason why xerox decks play Street Wraith and Mishra's Bauble for a large part too is to cut lands. We need lands to be able to cast loam effectively or be able to use Seismic Assault the hard way so the "hyper xerox" style does not really suit the archetype. The alternative to playing a bunch of draw spells to find a few threats is playing a bunch of threats on top of your threats, which I think is better for loam.
Forgot to mention: the reason why I think t4 12 damage isn't that groundbreaking is because it's not that much better in most matchups. In combo matchups, when you want to kill fast, you probably will not have dealt enough damage to get them to 12 to deal the last hits; in control, same deal, and if you land Seismic Assault you just have to grind them through enough turns to finish them off since countering loam doesn't matter; in midrange, same deal, kill their creatures over time and win the game with either AssLoam itself or your Tarmogoyf attacking through. The upside to dealing 12 damage is very small unless you are killing your opponent - it's just like LSV's statement about Heroic Reinforcements in standard.
I like the idea of these "redraw cards" like Edge of Autumn, Street Wraith, Manamorphose, and even Insolent Neonate in a ComboLoam deck where you are trying to win turn 4 with Flameblade Adept and Goblin Guide... Using them along with AssaultLoam to deal the last 12 damage feels great, especially against DS or Burn where they deal a lot of damage to themselves.
When you aren't killing your opponent however, I really don't like the redraws because they just take up too many slots. The deck needs to be filled with enough lands and threats to be able to support the assaultloam combo while having a backup plan. The list seems too tight for the redraws to me unless you support it with other threats like Hollow One.
The radical idea of adding Radical Idea to the deck was just the thought you could play it from your yard while triggering Peezy and Huntmaster and Bedlam Reveler and ... so as a 2 of, it would have a great effect on the late game. I think you have to really build around the redraw spells or else they just dilute the deck.
True-Name Nemesis seems like it would be too good to me, but I could be convinced otherwise. It seems like there aren't enough Council's Judgement cards that can easily get rid of it, although I would love to see more Golgari Charm in Jund. With the reprinting of Judgement and [card]Toxic Deluge[card] I might be able so see it as a possibility, but it just seems like a card that many decks can't beat even with those few cards added. I know that's kind of the point, but I think the difference is that there are less options to counter it (no FoW and Daze) and the clock it presents seems too good.
I only dabble in legacy, so if anyone has more insight on this please let me know.
I think Sorin is still better because of lifelink. Serra is still fine, in both modes: 4 mana 4/4 flyer turn 4 as a blocker which becomes a 5/5 Vigilant Flyer when attacking, or 4 mana for a Worship Emblem that essentially has suspend 1. Backed up with Path and [card=Fatal Push]Push[card], I still think it could see some play in modern.
Honestly, one of the main reasons I like the idea of this new rule is it would strengthen my bad FNM brews a lot. Having the ability to get the couple cards I need to enable my jank and to find the answers I need postboard makes the number of "viable" (x-1 record) decks I can play at my store increase dramatically.
I've been a long time Legacy player with most of its pool, but I stopped playing 4-5 years ago. Now, I've restarted playing but shifted to Modern.
I've been playing Infect because I had most of the cards, but as the meta is becoming more Red I'm facing more problems. Moreover, I'd like to change a bit.
My meta is as follows:
- 15% Izzet Phoenix
- 12% Jund
- 10% Amulet
- 10% Burn
- 10% Bant Spirits
- 20% Tribals (Merfolks, Elves, Goblins...)
There may be some Scales, Green Tron, Blue Moon, Eldrazi and Taxes, Ad Nauseam,...
Notably, there is no Dredge for now, nor any Storm, Monored Phoenix, Hollow One or Grixis (and I don't expect them).
My options:
- Izzet Phoenix: it is performing great there
- Blue Moon: can be more suited, not sure
- Burn
- Zoo
Feel free to offer a different option. I may consider an investment if it's worth the results.
Thanks,
What decks did you like playing in legacy? Modern has advanced to have a high number of playable decks, so it's really about what you feel comfortable with and want to play imo. For instance, if you liked playing Delver variants in legacy, both Phoenix and Grixis Death's Shadow are pretty similar to that playstyle. Miracles, UW or Jeskai Control, etc.
I have been saying to my friend group for a while now that I would really like to see Cabal Therapy printed for modern, and finally they pulled the trigger on something very similar. I am already very hyped for this set as "reprints" like this really excite me, and I don't think a card like Cabal Therapist would be printed in standard. Already a from me.
I've been thinking of trying a Temur Pyromancer Loam list with Radical Idea. Think Twice was pretty good in this deck a couple years ago, and I think Radical Idea could be even better since it's only two mana from your yard.
The new rule just seems good to me. While more linear decks like dredge may suffer to more consistent hate, they now can more easily draw answers for the hate, answers for the answers, and will likely have to adapt to a new, more resilient game plan. I think the new rule will lead to some structural changes in established archetypes, but overall will just make modern a more interactive format with less variance which I believe will lead to better magic.
When "elephanting" a deck, I often end up with a bunch of very wide one-ofs that are applicable in many matchups, e.g. Abrade, Beast Within, and Abrupt Decay in my Assault Loam deck. Instead of having 4 Nature's Claim for a bad affinity matchup, I would rather play many varied cards that also are good in other matchups that I can board in. 1 Abrade, 1 Beast Within, and 1 Abrupt Decay would all come in against Affinity, but could also be brought in against other decks easily. The one of's make sure I have no dead cards main deck, and no dead cards in sideboard; it seems everything has many uses and a lot comes in for nearly every matchup. That being said, I still usually have multiple 2 or 3 of's like Nihil Spellbomb or Anger of the Gods.
By the way, I just realized how well Radical Idea would work with the huntmaster, so any deck that can utilize that card well and the classic Think Twice stuff could get a lot of value out of the four cmc human.
The reason I have a hard time with this is more because when you are dredging through your deck and casting Faithless Looting, maybe cycling some lands, using Dark Confidant to get even deeper, you see most of your deck. That means if you dredge something like a Conflagrate or Lingering Souls it's card advantage. From what I've seen, most loam lists are tight because they start off with 34-35 slots, 8 of which is the combo, so the rest have to work to smooth out your deck, probably 8-12 threats with some removal. I think the typical Loam deck shouldn't run Street Wraith for the same reason Jund doesn't play Street Wraith, with the super high number of threats and removal, the goal of the deck is to grind, and I would rather have another threat or something that does something out of my graveyard rather than another redraw.
The reason why xerox decks play Street Wraith and Mishra's Bauble for a large part too is to cut lands. We need lands to be able to cast loam effectively or be able to use Seismic Assault the hard way so the "hyper xerox" style does not really suit the archetype. The alternative to playing a bunch of draw spells to find a few threats is playing a bunch of threats on top of your threats, which I think is better for loam.
The other situation where I like them is against graveyard hate like Surgical Extraction or even Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt where you can get back your Loams for free.
When you aren't killing your opponent however, I really don't like the redraws because they just take up too many slots. The deck needs to be filled with enough lands and threats to be able to support the assaultloam combo while having a backup plan. The list seems too tight for the redraws to me unless you support it with other threats like Hollow One.
The radical idea of adding Radical Idea to the deck was just the thought you could play it from your yard while triggering Peezy and Huntmaster and Bedlam Reveler and ... so as a 2 of, it would have a great effect on the late game. I think you have to really build around the redraw spells or else they just dilute the deck.
I only dabble in legacy, so if anyone has more insight on this please let me know.
I think Sorin is still better because of lifelink. Serra is still fine, in both modes: 4 mana 4/4 flyer turn 4 as a blocker which becomes a 5/5 Vigilant Flyer when attacking, or 4 mana for a Worship Emblem that essentially has suspend 1. Backed up with Path and [card=Fatal Push]Push[card], I still think it could see some play in modern.
What decks did you like playing in legacy? Modern has advanced to have a high number of playable decks, so it's really about what you feel comfortable with and want to play imo. For instance, if you liked playing Delver variants in legacy, both Phoenix and Grixis Death's Shadow are pretty similar to that playstyle. Miracles, UW or Jeskai Control, etc.
The cycling lands would actually be sick! I hadn't thought of them... Really want to play with Tranquil Thicket in Loam.
Radical Idea would be...
2 Spells for Young Pyromancer from your hand, 1 from your graveyard
2 Spells for Huntmaster of the Fells from your hand, or the second spell with a Lightning Bolt / Thought Scour
A two mana, instant speed way to dredge loam, letting you deal 10 dmg in each turn with Loam - Idea - Loam (with Seismic Assault)
Extra spell for a Bedlam Reveler or maybe Pteramander
...
The card seems like it could be good, and I could make some minor adjustments to my current list to get there. Thoughts?