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Life's Legacy: Delving into Delver
  • posted a message on Undoing mana abilities
    Quote from rigeld2 »
    You have to rewind to a legal game state - that means rewinding the LED as well.

    How then do you do this, if you discarded a Progenitus and shuffled it into the library?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Undoing mana abilities
    Quote from sindrik8x83 »
    This happens fairly often in my play groups EDH matches with all the different taxes cards and/or prison cards out. Never knew what the official rules were on it.

    Just as a reference so I can be sure I'm understanding right, if Thorn of Amethyst was out and one of us played Vampiric Tutor for one (with no other available mana to pay for the additional), and it resolved with the player putting the card on top of the library, that card would stay there? :/ Doesn't seem fair that the player is allowed to keep that there. In these cases we've usually had them shuffle the card they placed back into the library if it was caught before they next drew.

    Good information here. Thanks guys.

    No, resolving the Vampiric Tutor is a different issue. The fix as outlined in the rules cited above only applies when the mistake is caught while casting the spell. The fix for resolving the Tutor, is usually to shuffle the card back into the random section of the library and putting any nonrandom parts of the library from before, like due to scrying, back to where they were.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on how strong is "captured by the consulate" really?
    In the future, please ask questions pertaining to the rules and rulings about cards in the rules forum.

    Quote from the_jevry »
    so i recently got this nice looking foil card called captured by the consulate
    but i noticed that redirect spells n stuff is often less good than it seems.
    so mostly of all. will this enchantment still change the target of a single target spell even when the new target is invalid?
    naturalize or counterspell for example.
    or can it only absorb creature pump spells and removal spells?
    (edit) just looked it up myself to understand it a bit better more... yeah okay once again spell target changing stuff fails again.

    A target can only be changed if the new target would be legal for the spell/ability.

    o yeah another small thing. is true-name nemesis resistant to boardwipes? i believe he will survive any damage based boardwipe like starstorm but i am not sure about for example damnation for the same reason hexproof does not provide protection from boardwipers
    It's still protection, and that does only four things (DEBT)
    can't be Damaged
    can't be Equiped/Enchanted/Fortified
    can't be Blocked
    can't be Targeted

    Any board wipe that doesn't do any of those things will still succeed in removing TNN.
    From its gatherer rulings:
    10/17/2013 Protection from a player is a new variant of the protection ability. It means the following: — True-Name Nemesis can’t be the target of spells or abilities controlled by the chosen player. — True-Name Nemesis can’t be enchanted by Auras or equipped by Equipment controlled by the chosen player. (The same is true for Fortifications controlled by the chosen player, if True-Name Nemesis becomes a land.) — True-Name Nemesis can’t be blocked by creatures controlled by the chosen player. — All damage that would be dealt to True-Name Nemesis by sources controlled by the chosen player is prevented. (The same is true for sources owned by the chosen player that don’t have controllers.)
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Undoing mana abilities
    Reversing an illegal action, or part thereof, is not possible, if a library was affected by it. Putting cards in the graveyard, for example by sacrificing permanents for mana abilities, can be reversed, unless those cards came from a library. All your examples can be reversed, except for scenarios, where Progenitus got shuffled back into the library (replacement effects are taken into account). Triggers are untriggered.
    Quote from From the Comprehensive Rules »
    720. Handling Illegal Actions

    720.1. If a player takes an illegal action or starts to take an action but can’t legally complete it, the entire action is reversed and any payments already made are canceled. No abilities trigger and no effects apply as a result of an undone action. If the action was casting a spell, the spell returns to the zone it came from. The player may also reverse any legal mana abilities activated while making the illegal play, unless mana from them or from any triggered mana abilities they triggered was spent on another mana ability that wasn’t reversed. Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, caused a library to be shuffled, or caused cards from a library to be revealed.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Angel of Serenity
    Angel of Serenity
    Razaketh, the Foulblooded

    After the Angel's ETB trigger has been put on the stack and its targets have been selected, players can respond to that trigger. If you respond by removing the Angel somehow (for example with Razaketh's sac ability), its trigger is still on the stack waiting to do its thing. But its other trigger is now put on the stack, too, and as always, it is put on top of the stack, so somewhere on top of the other trigger. This means, that the return trigger resolves first, but there is nothing to return, because nothing has been exiled yet. The exile trigger will still resolve (because abilities on the stack exist independent of their sources) and do its thing, exiling all its targets that are still legal. In order to return those cards now, the Angel has to leave the battlefield, but it's not even there anymore, so the trigger can't go off. Even if the Angel returns and then leaves again, the game considers it a new object and thus its return abilty won't refer to the previously exiled cards since they were exiled by a different Angel as far as the game is concerned.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Multiple Triggers
    When multiple triggers have to be put on the stack at the same time, all waiting triggers are put there in APNAP order (Active Player Non Active Player). Meaning, the active player (the player whose turn it is), puts all his triggers on the stack in the order of his/her choosing (selecting modes and targets as nessessary), then the nonactive players in turn order do the same. So the active player's triggers always resolve last.

    Note, that triggered abilities don't have to trigger at the same time for this to occur. There are many scenarios, where triggers go of at diffeent times, but are still put on the stack at the same time. This is because triggers wait to be put on the stack until a player would receive priority, so if for example a resolving spell has multiple effects in sequence, and two of those effects each trigger an ability, those two triggers make it to the stack at the same time, even though they triggered at different times.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Hostage Taker rules check
    It'll reenter under its owner's control.

    610.3. Some one-shot effects cause an object to change zones “until” a specified event occurs. A second one-shot effect is created immediately after the specified event. This second one-shot effect returns the object to its previous zone.
    [...]
    610.3b An object returned to the battlefield this way returns under its owner’s control unless otherwise specified.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on MTG Puzzle - The Greatest Thief in the Multiverse
    @Gelcur
    Thanks for the look over. I edited in the cost in step 4) as you suggested.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Question about Kiln fiend vs unsummon
    If the defending player says something along the lines of "I take ... damage", he is proposing a shortcut to go to the combat damage step and resolve the turn based action of combat damage. If the active player shortens this shortcut proposal (like if he wants to cast a Lightning Bolt in the declare blockers step), the game only advances to the point of the turn that the shortcut was shortened to, where the active player then takes his action. This means, that the game is still in the declare blockers step, and the defending player can bounce the Kiln Fiend during that step, taking no combat damage from it. When a shortcut is shortened, no player is bound to any decisions and actions that were proposed for after the end point of that shortened shortcut.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Animation Module and etb counters
    Daghatar the Adamant
    Animation Module

    Yes. Entering with counters counts as putting those ******ers on the permanent.

    121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on MTG Puzzle - The Greatest Thief in the Multiverse
    I think, I found an alternative soltution for the 31 spirit problem (and it should work for 32 spirits as well). If anyone can find a way to tweak this into a solution that solves the 33 spirit problem, I would very much like to know, because I've been musing about this for days now. I would also appreciate someone carefully examining this for any mistakes. I need to get this out of my head.


    (Note: The Thief taps to target itself before an Intruder Alarm trigger resolves to get an exchange trigger.)

    1) Play Plains
    2) Cast White Shield Crusader for WW+1 due to Geist-Fueled Scarecrow
    3) Trade GFS for Ashnod's Altar
    4) Cast Compulsory Rest on Voidstone Gargoyle and sac it to gain 2 life (combined cost 1W+2, life total = 7)
    5) Sac Maze Abomination, Typhoid Rats, and Quicksilver Gargantuan on the Altar to gain 6 mana
    6) Cast Painful Truths for WUB to draw 3 cards (life total = 4)
    7) Cast Argentum Armor for 6
    8) Cast Skyhunter Skirmisher for 1WW
    9) Trade Argentum Armor for Barbed Sextant
    10) Sac Sextant to turn W into B
    11) Sac Skyhunter on the Altar to gain 2 mana
    12) Cast Call to Mind for 2U to get Painful Truths back
    13) Cast Painful Truths for WUB to draw 3 cards (life total = 1)
    14) Sac White Shield Crusader and Haunter of Nightveil on the Altar to get 4 mana
    15) Cast Refurbish for 3W to reanimate Myr Battlesphere
    16) Trade MBS and its 8 Myr tokens (due to Annointed Procession) for 9 Spirit tokens
    17) Sac 9 Spirits on the Altar to gain 18 mana
    18) Cast Phyrexian Metamorph for 3U and copy the Battlesphere
    19) Trade the Metamorph for Geist-Fueled Scarecrow and its 8 Myr tokens for 8 Spirit tokens
    20) Sac 8 Spirits to get 16 mana
    21) Cast Scarecrone for 3+1 due to GFS

    (This is where a Thief's exchange trigger is wasted due to me not having anything I can spare to grab another Spirit)

    22) Sac first GFS, then Scarescrone for 2 to draw 2 cards
    23) Cast Iron League Steed for 4, place its fabricate trigger on top of the Intruder Alarm trigger
    24) Fabricate 2 Servo tokens (due to Annointed Procession) and trade them both for Spirits
    25) Sac those 2 Spirit and the Steed on the Altar to get 6 mana, all in response to the Steed's Intruder Alarm trigger
    26) Now resolve that untap and trade the Altar back for your Argentum Armor
    27) Cast Death-Mask Duplicant for 7
    28) Trade the Thief itself for another Spirit token (opponent either sacs it for mana or lets this happen, either way, another Spirit is gone)
    29) Cast the second Argentum Armor and equip both on the DMD for a total cost of 18 mana
    30) Exile Altar Golem, a Skyhunter Skirmisher, and the Iron League Steed with the DMD for your last 3 total
    31) Attack with DMD
    32) Destroy another two Spirits with the two Armor's triggers in the declare attackers step

    You have removed 22 Spirits, so even if your opponent had up to 32 Spirit tokens in the beginning, you can trample over for a total of 24 damage, winning the game.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Torment of Hailfire/Token Matters
    Quote from Tamrian »
    Quote from Rezzahan »

    Noxious Hatchling/Voracious Hatchling (can become big, and instantly generates 4 -1/-1 counters for scarabs)


    Does that work? They enter with the counters. If so, sweet.

    Yes, due to this rule:

    121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield.

    edit:
    Similar to what I already mentioned, Grim Poppet also is removal and lots of -1/-1 counters. Two of those could go "infinte" with the counter placement by giving each other counters back and forth.
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on mirror gallery and planeswalkers
    The planeswalker type makes it possible to attack that permanent and makes it subject to the damage rules for planeswalkers (removing loyalty counters, redirecting damage), it also makes it subject to the "zero loyalty counters" state based action. Other than that, they work like all legendary permanents now. So only the exact same name matters now for uniqueness, same planeswalker type doesn't.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Torment of Hailfire/Token Matters
    Well, you should keep Nest of Scarabs in mind as a key card of the deck, so you need lots of stuff to put -1/-1 counters on creatures. Here are some cards, that I think could be useful:
    Skinrender
    Soul Snuffers
    Canker Abomination (either a cheap fatty or lots of -1/-1 counters to get tokens)
    Noxious Hatchling/Voracious Hatchling (can become big, and instantly generates 4 -1/-1 counters for scarabs)
    Midnight Banshee (lots of devotion and a serious threat all around)
    Carnifex Demon (dito)
    Grief Tyrant (instantly four -1/-1 counters ,and another 4 when it dies, preferably by sacrifice on the Altar)

    Creatures with persist in general could be very useful for two sacrifices on the Altar plus a -1/-1 counter placed. Cauldron Haze could come in handy for that, too, and erases the need for persist creatures for this. Though lots of -1/-1 counters on your creatures will make this ineffective as persist only triggers if there is no such counter on the creature.
    Posted in: Multiplayer
  • posted a message on freed from the real and genesis hydra
    Voyaging Satyr
    Simic Growth Chamber
    Genesis Hydra
    Freed from the Real

    The only possible ways to stop you from generating an aritrarily large amount of green mana are either

    1) in response to you tapping the Satyr targeting the SGC (this ability uses the stack and can be responded to), or

    2) in response to you activating FftR to untap the Satyr (this ability uses the stack and can be responded to).

    But in both cases, if you have a way to generate blue mana instantly or have some already in your mana pool, you can respond by activating FftR and do your combo in response to his response. If you can do that, your opponent has no means to stop you. (Except for things like split second, of course.)
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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