Regarding Elvish vidionary: with Eternal witness, satyr wayfinder can also do it. Courser of kruphix + horizon canopy can do it. Tireless tracker (with or without Renegade rallier help) can do it.
I think I'd rather have a tracker than Elvish visionary.
Also of note, I am considering moving away from qasali pridemage in the sb for caustic caterpillar. One mana cheaper to chord, but more importantly, mono green. I was in a spot where a graffdiggers cage was coming and I wanted to chord in response, and having double rec sage was bad. There was another instance where I had infinite mana, but had to deal with 2x rest in peace (I usually kill with infinite bolster), but no white. Since I couldn't witness back a chord/coco (due to the 2nd rip), I almost lost that game.
It is really minor, but relevant to keep in mind
Both of those situations are incredibly corner. Pridemage is just miles ahead of Caterpillar as a whole.
I would list Grixis Delver is a bad matchup as well. Tons of removal and interaction+fast clocks that quickly outclass our own creatures. It's very hard to beat turn 1 delver, turn 2 tasigur
Mindbender and Sculler really dont fulfill the same roles. I don't think they should be compared. Mindbender is a value card for midrange and control that's hard to interact with. Sculler is a 2 drop that takes a card in the matchups where you want it.(i.e., very little removal/expensive removal)
As much as I like Voice of Resurgence, it gets much worse relative to the number of renegade ralliers and viscera seers, both of which are worse in a druid-vizier build.
Two Druid/Vizier decks in Tuesday's MTGO league and another in the Monday league. That's pretty insane considering coco lists, especuially abzan, are a pain to play online.
I'm inclined to agree. I honestly think the deck got a lot better with the new combo. It makes our bad matchups(valakut decks, tron, etc) a lot better because it's easier to assemble by Turn 3 without a mana dork even.
T1 literally anything
T2 devoted druid
T3 vizier OR chord for 2(3 lands+double tap druid) into win the game.
as opposed to needing the literal nut draw to do
turn 1 viscera seer
turn 2 anafenza/melira/vizier
turn 3 finks(have to have actual finks, cant chord for it turn 3 with these T1/2 plays
Any tips for the Death's shadow matchups? They feel super difficult since they just land a big creature early and have tons of spot removal. Like, is any post-board hand without path/abrupt decay just garbage?
Not gonna lie; it kinda hurts my head trying to figure out how exactly being able to put 3 cards to the bottom of our library in a given order allows us to stack our deck Goblin Recruiter-style. This is not an invitation to explain it though I'll figure it out at some point. I'll reread g_g53's various posts about it.
Spikefeeder+angel could be 2 Wall of Roots I guess, yea. Feels super bad to run that many mana dorks though.
I play almost entirely online so I'm inclined to keep angelfeeder because it's less clicks than trying to win via infinite bolster.
Makes sense. I'm just throwing out ideas. Honestly I've found you often don't even need the Spike Feeder because if Archangel of Thune gets an activation in without being removed then it probably pumps your board enough that you're in a good spot to win anyways. (Not always true obviously)
Yea, I was wondering that too. The thing is that I'm still not too experienced at the deck so I didn't know if playing Angel without spike feeder was a reasonable thing I could do(I've never seen any list with Angel but not Feeder)
@Brawny15, why do you despise kataki and canonist? please explain! I'm really interested in your rationale.
I think Eidolon of Rhetoric is miles ahead of canonist because it's actually useful against snapcaster decks because it doesn't die to bolt or non-revolt push. Being 1 mana slower generally doesn't hurt much. Kataki is good against affinity and that's it. Lantern draws the game out so much and has such cheap spells that kataki does very little in breaking up even a halfway set up Lantern player. They'll draw lands and play them and pay for kataki and continue the lock. I want my sideboard to be applicable in more than 1 1/2 matchups.
So basically you don't want to run Angelfeeder because you can't play angel with infinite green mana?
I don't want to run angel feeder because I don't think I need to. My current 75 (which I posted a few pages back) uses angel feeder in the main, and while I like it, I do not consider it necessary in this newer build (and I don't think I have the room for it in my build). Duskwatch is already an amazing card in long games, and those are where we can usually get to use angel + feeder. While Angel Feeder avoid graveyard hate (which isn't super common to be required in the 1st game), my SB has the tools to deal with the GY hate and combo through it (and while not super happy about it, ballista seems easier than blood artist and takes less splash hate from RiP + Graffdiggers). My build would have a hard time against double Rest in Peace, and there Ballista would help.
I might be underestimating how good recruiter is in long games then. I've never played with it. I'm coming around to your list I think.
What do you scry to other than Angel? Just scry into redundant pieces of the combo? What about if you want to end the game right then? Township? I suppose that's where a maindeck Blood Artist does the trick.
This is more or less what I have in mind as well. No need to go super deep on the combo playing stuff like Ballista and Craterhoof. Is there are particular reason to not run Angelfeeder though? -1 Tracker and Saffi and just run Angelfeeder IMO
Both of those situations are incredibly corner. Pridemage is just miles ahead of Caterpillar as a whole.
As much as I like Voice of Resurgence, it gets much worse relative to the number of renegade ralliers and viscera seers, both of which are worse in a druid-vizier build.
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
29 CREATURES
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Archangel of Thune
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Devoted Druid
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spike Feeder
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Viscera Seer
3 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
8 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sin Collector
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
29 CREATURES
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Viscera Seer
3 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
8 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sin Collector
2 Tidehollow Sculler
This last list seems to be just straight GW all-in on the combo. 19 lands gives me the shivers.
3 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
29 CREATURES
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Eternal Witness
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Spellskite
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
12 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Eldritch Evolution
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
T1 literally anything
T2 devoted druid
T3 vizier OR chord for 2(3 lands+double tap druid) into win the game.
as opposed to needing the literal nut draw to do
turn 1 viscera seer
turn 2 anafenza/melira/vizier
turn 3 finks(have to have actual finks, cant chord for it turn 3 with these T1/2 plays
Yea, I was wondering that too. The thing is that I'm still not too experienced at the deck so I didn't know if playing Angel without spike feeder was a reasonable thing I could do(I've never seen any list with Angel but not Feeder)
I play almost entirely online so I'm inclined to keep angelfeeder because it's less clicks than trying to win via infinite bolster.
I think Eidolon of Rhetoric is miles ahead of canonist because it's actually useful against snapcaster decks because it doesn't die to bolt or non-revolt push. Being 1 mana slower generally doesn't hurt much. Kataki is good against affinity and that's it. Lantern draws the game out so much and has such cheap spells that kataki does very little in breaking up even a halfway set up Lantern player. They'll draw lands and play them and pay for kataki and continue the lock. I want my sideboard to be applicable in more than 1 1/2 matchups.
I might be underestimating how good recruiter is in long games then. I've never played with it. I'm coming around to your list I think.
What do you scry to other than Angel? Just scry into redundant pieces of the combo? What about if you want to end the game right then? Township? I suppose that's where a maindeck Blood Artist does the trick.
This is more or less what I have in mind as well. No need to go super deep on the combo playing stuff like Ballista and Craterhoof. Is there are particular reason to not run Angelfeeder though? -1 Tracker and Saffi and just run Angelfeeder IMO