My apologies, I got a little heated and probably took this a too personally. For here forward we can agree to disagree on this one.
Could I get some opinions on Quicken? It seems good on paper but I'd like to know if anyone has tried it or if theres a link to some previous discussions on it?
I dont think we have any sorcerery we would play at Insta Speed. Exhaustion is fine played during our turn
i'm trying to build a stasis deck with foretold and i have a couple of questions
since i go with 4 foretold, 4 ancestral vision, 2 flip jace (that can recast ancestral vision) plus cantrips, are dictates and mine effects needed? seems the draw power is more than enough with that build but if i cut mine effects i need a new wincondition and i don't know what would fit the deck better. any ideas? flip jace could win games on his own but in legacy there are a lot of emrakuls so milling isn't that reliable i guess.
also, should i include lotus bloom in the deck as well? being able to play 4 black loti is tempting. 3 mana into foretold into bloom is a very nice play to do since it lets us playing the enchant basically for free if we break the lotus right after. and if we stack a couple of them that gives us mana for a wincon later. if i play 4 lotus bloom should i play 4 ssg / lotus petal like i do in other pillow fort builds?
could be stupid but how many lands should i play if i include 4 lotus bloom and foretold in the deck?
the core of the deck i guess would look like this:
yeah thats the thing. Like my foretold/second sun experiment (which I dont like btw) when you are talking half a dozen turns, have 8+ Mana on the board and your opponent is tapped out...you do you, and just win with whatever.
And just win with whatever .... as long as it actually wins you the game right there. Otherwise we should be choosing mana efficient win cons (to squeeze in while we continue to combo) or win cons that win you the game right then. So really we should limit ourselves to cheap things things like Delver of Secrets and Thing in the Ice. And make sure to avoid things like Elspeth, Sun's Champion because she cannot win us the game that turn Compare her to things like Psychic Spiral which, when we cast it after a few warps we basically insta-win.
wincons should be chosen in this way
- does it naturally support our combo *a lot* ? = awesome wincon! example: part the waterveil, snapcaster mage
- does it do that in a nautral way or has a simple sinergy? = good/decent win con example: thing in the ice, emrakul(in reshuffle builds), jace
- do i have to create a situation in order to use the wincon? = bad wincon example: saheli cat combo? lab maniac? this kind of win con.
11 different decks out of the 14 total. Between Grixis Shadow being 2 out of 14 here, 2 out of 13 of the 13-2s at GP Vegas, and a total of 2 top 8s between 3 GPs so far, I think the people calling for a ban just don't have the numbers backing them up. I don't see how you look at these numbers and say the deck is oppressing the format, although I'm sure a certain someone on here and reddit will try to spin it that way.
Yep. All I see is a very diverse and healthy metagame here.
it is, but we lack U and even more W tho. it is a good meta probably, but it can be a lot better
You can probably cut to 1 both Saheli and felidar in favor to more 2 sv
By the way seems a usual turns deck with the Saheli combo as wincon and it is okay i guess? Once you have a stock 56/58 cards out 60 to be a turns deck you can win with whatever you want
i added some cards from the hod spoiler to the primer. if you want to add cards or comments tell me so i can update the thread
Hour of Devastation
Nimble Obstructionist
pro
A flash flyer with a 3/1 body could be a very good ambusher and could be cute as a wincondition.
Cycling an ability is a rare effect but it is very powerful since it shuts down fetches, walkers and a lot of other cards in the tier 1 decks (mostly eldrazi affinity storm abzan and dredge)
contro
2U for casting is a bit too much. maybe in foretold turns there is more free mana and could work?
2U for cycle is again a bit too much.
we already have dictates and exhaustions in the 3 cmc spot and these are more important for us
Riddleform
pro
3/3 with Flying for 2 mana is efficient, works as a decent finisher and sometimes as a good blocker
Dodges removal
2U for a scry is costly but in late game could work
contro
it is too much a win more card and we can have better win conditions. But for the same cmc thing in the ice provides more value to us anyway..
Supreme will
pro
it has a good versality, and in a deck like turns we often have a lot of cards stuck in hand doing nothing so we should really be able to gain the most from this card
contro
very high cmc for what it does. maybe in baral builds?
Swarm Intelligence
pro
Copying extra turns spell is always fun
interesting art, should look nice in foil
contro
6U is just a lot. Probably UG/bant builds that ramp to good amount of mana and some of them have infinite combos could like this enchant ?
God-Pharaoh's Faithful
pro
one mana 0/4 body is so good! kraken hatchling was played in the past as an early blocker
even if we don't gain great amounts of life points from him even 2 or 3 are probably enough since it happens we lose for just a couple LP to survive a turn
contro
it isn't a powerful card but blocking and gaining some life points is good enough probably. doesn't really have contros
yeah serum vision is far more importan. but i see a lot of lists with 3 sv and some snapcasters, maybe 3 serums vision and 1 speculation could work?
it happened to me before that people conceded saying "you got mana to take turns AND filtering? okay no way i'm continue this let's play game 2"
The extra card the sv gives you can be that one card that lets you get to late game so we really should prefer it over MS. it is a card that i love tho probably as a single copy i see it working Good!
I dont think we have any sorcerery we would play at Insta Speed. Exhaustion is fine played during our turn
by the way
remand > mana leak > delay > other 2 cmc counters (if they exist at all)
since i go with 4 foretold, 4 ancestral vision, 2 flip jace (that can recast ancestral vision) plus cantrips, are dictates and mine effects needed? seems the draw power is more than enough with that build but if i cut mine effects i need a new wincondition and i don't know what would fit the deck better. any ideas? flip jace could win games on his own but in legacy there are a lot of emrakuls so milling isn't that reliable i guess.
also, should i include lotus bloom in the deck as well? being able to play 4 black loti is tempting. 3 mana into foretold into bloom is a very nice play to do since it lets us playing the enchant basically for free if we break the lotus right after. and if we stack a couple of them that gives us mana for a wincon later. if i play 4 lotus bloom should i play 4 ssg / lotus petal like i do in other pillow fort builds?
could be stupid but how many lands should i play if i include 4 lotus bloom and foretold in the deck?
the core of the deck i guess would look like this:
4x Stasis
foretold core
4x As Foretold
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Lotus Bloom
2x Jace, Prodigio di Vryn
3x Rest in Peace
3x Energy Field
1x Propaganda
cantrips
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
1x Enlightened Tutor
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
lands
4 Forsaken City
excluding forsaken city these are 42 cards so i could play 18 lands
wincons should be chosen in this way
- does it naturally support our combo *a lot* ? = awesome wincon! example: part the waterveil, snapcaster mage
- does it do that in a nautral way or has a simple sinergy? = good/decent win con
- do i have to create a situation in order to use the wincon? = bad wincon
it is, but we lack U and even more W tho. it is a good meta probably, but it can be a lot better
By the way seems a usual turns deck with the Saheli combo as wincon and it is okay i guess? Once you have a stock 56/58 cards out 60 to be a turns deck you can win with whatever you want
Hour of Devastation
pro
A flash flyer with a 3/1 body could be a very good ambusher and could be cute as a wincondition.
Cycling an ability is a rare effect but it is very powerful since it shuts down fetches, walkers and a lot of other cards in the tier 1 decks (mostly eldrazi affinity storm abzan and dredge)
contro
2U for casting is a bit too much. maybe in foretold turns there is more free mana and could work?
2U for cycle is again a bit too much.
we already have dictates and exhaustions in the 3 cmc spot and these are more important for us
pro
3/3 with Flying for 2 mana is efficient, works as a decent finisher and sometimes as a good blocker
Dodges removal
2U for a scry is costly but in late game could work
contro
it is too much a win more card and we can have better win conditions. But for the same cmc thing in the ice provides more value to us anyway..
pro
it has a good versality, and in a deck like turns we often have a lot of cards stuck in hand doing nothing so we should really be able to gain the most from this card
contro
very high cmc for what it does. maybe in baral builds?
pro
Copying extra turns spell is always fun
interesting art, should look nice in foil
contro
6U is just a lot. Probably UG/bant builds that ramp to good amount of mana and some of them have infinite combos could like this enchant ?
pro
one mana 0/4 body is so good! kraken hatchling was played in the past as an early blocker
even if we don't gain great amounts of life points from him even 2 or 3 are probably enough since it happens we lose for just a couple LP to survive a turn
contro
it isn't a powerful card but blocking and gaining some life points is good enough probably. doesn't really have contros
Btw riddleform is bad. Like very bad. And no good player will ever target it with destroy enchant over a mine effect
it happened to me before that people conceded saying "you got mana to take turns AND filtering? okay no way i'm continue this let's play game 2"