Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's best to start taking turns? Say the opponent is tapped out, should I wait til I have a howling mine out? What if I have two time warps but no mines? Should I take a couple turns in order to draw a few cards and play some lands? Does it depend on the rest of my hand? If I have exhaustion or gigadrowse backup, is it okay to just take one turn to dig for a mine effect?
I know much of this is matchup and draw dependent, but just trying to get an idea of when you all feel it's safe or best to start taking turns.
i usually start taking turns even if i don't have mines, more lands and cards is still a good advantage and means stronger gigadrowses
discard, permission(counterspells), prison strategies, land destruction and mana denial
depending on the meta and the build turns has used all of these different ways to control the board while assembling the combo.
the ur with 4 bolts and 4 snapcaster is more focused on tempo. a ur version with 4 ssg and 4 cotv main is more a prisonish build.
the ub turns at gp vegas was more about discard and permission. in some metas turns plays a lot of spreading seas and ghost quarters in addition to gigadrowses and exhaustions and boomerangs to hit lands
i think we can agree that turn isn't a pure control deck but we should also agree that everything that is not a land or a combo piece is here to provide control elements, be it discard, prison, mana denial, tempo or whatever one prefers to play.
i don't know f that's enough to call turns a control deck but calling it a combo deck is wrong as well... the right definition is that turns decks have all these characteristics
If you think Turns is a control deck then I don't think we can have any meaningful discussions about control decks. Gl.
turns is a tempo/control deck that closes games with a 16 cards combo
Its tempo combo sure. There's little to no control in there at all. Why? because blue lacks efficient answers, and it takes a 16 card combo to be a reliable blue finisher.
resource denial is both a tempo and control thing tho.. in this way it is a control deck.
I assume you mean gigadrowse and exhaustion when you say resource denial, but if you stop to think about it those are their actually their tempo heavy hitters. They don't destroy or counter anything, they just stall the game into the turns where the combo goes off. It's an easy mistake to make, but there is no way you can consider turns to be much control at all. Remand isn't a hard counter, and it's rare to see a list with anything other than Remand. Occasionally you see a copy or two of Cryptic, but that hardly makes it a control deck.
Control doesnt mean only permission in form of Counters tho.
Also we play it as a singleton not the full set, 90% of the time we see it we see sanitarium mid and late game when we have mines and card quality is kinda important. I always have to discard lands eot, sanitarium gives me an extra card and that's good . Being played it since it got spoilered and never looked back ahah
I played some games with foretold in different build and i didnt liked it
It felt
A turns deck with firetold in it, win more and takes slots or
A turns deck with a foretold engine, clunky and if answered or discarded deck just cant win anymore or
A foretold deck with mines and extra turns that is a bad turns deck and a bad foretold one
Im really not happy with it sadly. Anyone else tested it?
3 mana destroy target death shadow seems fun but bad
also tarmo isn't played much now since jund and jund shadow are so underplayed :/ could be a cool card but it is very very meta dependant imho
- Geier Reach Sanitarium is a trap. You are better off with darksteel citadel or gemstone caverns, even a second inkmoth nexus. anything but that
it depends on the build. in my mainboard i have a emrakul i can discard for a reshuffle effect when i need it and geier also fills the graveyeard for trespass and snapcaster plays
So is there a reason I shouldn't try out a playset of Nimble Obstructionist? I definitely want to hold up 3mana in basically every game with the option to drop Dictate or this guy. Stuff the bird poops on:
Planeswalkers
Expedition Map
Fetchlands
Equipment
Eidolon of the Great Revel
ETBs of every variety
Shenanigans Involving Counters
Thoughts?
so does dissolve but it wasn't played.. try it because we kinda have to test everything, but we already have too many 3 cmc cards in dictates and exhaustions.
Difference is the card draw.
and the ability only clause. honestly we already have a lot of draw power i think more is overkill.
idk, maybe it works out it is a good card we will see!
So is there a reason I shouldn't try out a playset of Nimble Obstructionist? I definitely want to hold up 3mana in basically every game with the option to drop Dictate or this guy. Stuff the bird poops on:
Planeswalkers
Expedition Map
Fetchlands
Equipment
Eidolon of the Great Revel
ETBs of every variety
Shenanigans Involving Counters
Thoughts?
so does dissolve but it wasn't played.. try it because we kinda have to test everything, but we already have too many 3 cmc cards in dictates and exhaustions.
If you think Turns is a control deck then I don't think we can have any meaningful discussions about control decks. Gl.
turns is a tempo/control deck that closes games with a 16 cards combo
Its tempo combo sure. There's little to no control in there at all. Why? because blue lacks efficient answers, and it takes a 16 card combo to be a reliable blue finisher.
resource denial is both a tempo and control thing tho.. in this way it is a control deck.
unbanning sfm could help not only W but U as well since uw control could get a cool toy. there are really no reasons to have sfm banned since years but it is still there
jace is a cancerous card, it would not help blue, we should avoid it.
i usually start taking turns even if i don't have mines, more lands and cards is still a good advantage and means stronger gigadrowses
discard, permission(counterspells), prison strategies, land destruction and mana denial
depending on the meta and the build turns has used all of these different ways to control the board while assembling the combo.
the ur with 4 bolts and 4 snapcaster is more focused on tempo. a ur version with 4 ssg and 4 cotv main is more a prisonish build.
the ub turns at gp vegas was more about discard and permission. in some metas turns plays a lot of spreading seas and ghost quarters in addition to gigadrowses and exhaustions and boomerangs to hit lands
i think we can agree that turn isn't a pure control deck but we should also agree that everything that is not a land or a combo piece is here to provide control elements, be it discard, prison, mana denial, tempo or whatever one prefers to play.
i don't know f that's enough to call turns a control deck but calling it a combo deck is wrong as well... the right definition is that turns decks have all these characteristics
Control doesnt mean only permission in form of Counters tho.
Also we play it as a singleton not the full set, 90% of the time we see it we see sanitarium mid and late game when we have mines and card quality is kinda important. I always have to discard lands eot, sanitarium gives me an extra card and that's good . Being played it since it got spoilered and never looked back ahah
It felt
A turns deck with firetold in it, win more and takes slots or
A turns deck with a foretold engine, clunky and if answered or discarded deck just cant win anymore or
A foretold deck with mines and extra turns that is a bad turns deck and a bad foretold one
Im really not happy with it sadly. Anyone else tested it?
also tarmo isn't played much now since jund and jund shadow are so underplayed :/ could be a cool card but it is very very meta dependant imho
i like clever impersonator more than melody, idk
it depends on the build. in my mainboard i have a emrakul i can discard for a reshuffle effect when i need it and geier also fills the graveyeard for trespass and snapcaster plays
and the ability only clause. honestly we already have a lot of draw power i think more is overkill.
idk, maybe it works out it is a good card we will see!
so does dissolve but it wasn't played.. try it because we kinda have to test everything, but we already have too many 3 cmc cards in dictates and exhaustions.
resource denial is both a tempo and control thing tho.. in this way it is a control deck.
turns is a tempo/control deck that closes games with a 16 cards combo
playable only in ug colors and even that the lost untap phase is very very bad
jace is a cancerous card, it would not help blue, we should avoid it.