I run Refuge and Gavony Township and have to admit I don’t think I’ve activated either more than twice over the extensive period I’ve played my list.
Refuge seems like the only one worth keeping, but because it requires three lands just to activate I’d say the spells you’d use it with likely top out at 4cmc which isn’t that amazing. Maybe some clever Phantasmal Image shenanigans are possible but I’m not even sure about that.
Add me to the list of those curious to see what you come up with I've been playing some split of Jenara/Derevi/Atraxa as my interactive deck of choice for the last two or so years and thoroughly enjoy them. Derevi felt a little stale and monotonous the way I built her, so it eventually reverted back to Jenara and afterwards Atraxa which has been mostly enjoyable, but I'm curious about your plans for Derevi which seems like she has a higher ceiling than Jenara potentially.
I've seen sigarda, host of herons in a lot of sideboards. What matchups are you looking to bring her in? Control?
Not really control if it's a match up where you expect board wipes or lots of counters, Thrun might be better there.
Jund sometimes runs Damnation I suppose but against their general removal and Liliana Sigarda is great. She's also good against Eldrazi Tron if you expect All Is Dust out of them. I guess she blanks Living End's sacrifice effect?
She's also good against any deck that can't outrace a 5/5 flyer potentially on turn 3 if you Evo into a ramped 3 drop on 2.
It also just makes sense from a revenue perspective. I'm sure numbers would suggest teens and younger players that maybe still have mom and pop paying for their hobbies spend more money than older players that have to balance their disposable income with other obligations. They've been trying to make MTG more kid friendly from a design perspective lately (The uptick in creature/PW based play rather than spell-based play seems indicative of it), so I'm sure this has been on their minds for a while and this opportunity with GS is another rung in the ladder.
If they're trying to target teens and kids, they're going about it completely ass f*ing backwards.
The entire premise of the game is that you're two mages slinging spells at each other, and the idea of literally casting Counterspells and Rituals and throwing Fireballs at my opponent ingame was what drew me into the game way back in 1996.
The intricate gameplay kept me in, so the move towards the simpler Magic: the Zookeepering is completely backwards to me.
I agree to an extent, but it's likely a generational thing. I can't think WotC's obvious effort for gameplay to be more creature based is coincidence, they should be intelligent enough to have done some testing or surveying that lead them to make that decision. I'm sure the more established fans echo your sentiments (I probably fall into that category) but I'm also sure that the average Joe picking up MTG now would gravitate more towards the idea of slamming creatures into each other and using PW abilities.
It also just makes sense from a revenue perspective. I'm sure numbers would suggest teens and younger players that maybe still have mom and pop paying for their hobbies spend more money than older players that have to balance their disposable income with other obligations. They've been trying to make MTG more kid friendly from a design perspective lately (The uptick in creature/PW based play rather than spell-based play seems indicative of it), so I'm sure this has been on their minds for a while and this opportunity with GS is another rung in the ladder.
Since a few people are sharing their different approaches to playing Marchesa I figured I'd share my list, in case anyone is looking for some ideas to incorporate into their own list. I started out trying to build an ultra-fast deck that ended up getting hated out rather quickly, so I pivoted a little bit into a more value-oriented list that doesn't look like the biggest threat at the table immediately. There are a few combos in the list, but I wouldn't say I manage to pull any of them off too frequently and rarely feel the need to look for them deliberately.
As a rule of thumb if a chase/staple card is reprinted in a low print run set the price/accessibility won’t really be affected positively, if anything it can sometimes generate hype and increase the price.
If they truly wanted to increase access or lower prices they’d realize high print run sets are where you do that, with cards like Thoughtseize and the KTK fetches being the best examples.
This myth that reprinting something in a masters set does much for the community is just that, a myth. Nobody at WotC can make that claim with a straight face if you look at the prices of staples like Liliana, Snapcaster, etc despite being reprinted.
The lopsided nature of rarity allocation of playable cards is definitely a contributor to the failings of standard, as is the massive discrepancy between printing ever-more powerful threats while choking access to decent answers.
That system assumes WotC (or more likely, Hasbro) cares about LGSs and its player base more than they care about making significant profits - they don’t, sadly.
If WotC is more concerned with how people using their *hobby game* as an investment will react than the player base they won’t be enjoying the profits from said hobby game for much longer.
Suffice it to say I think you’ll excite a lot more people and get more player participation when you offer a product that actually encourages engagement instead of treating your consumers like a captive market with subpar intelligence.
They’ve been treating players like fools for a while, that approach is likely to have a diminishing rate of returns.
Energy is not a fine/smart mechanic. Here's something WotC needs to learn with the likes of emblems/player counters: Don't create a resource that an opponent can't interact with.
Stuff like experience counters for EDH are likely fine, and the City's Blessing takes effort to generate, and something like PW emblems are not that common to get to. Energy on the other hand is produced too easily and there's no way to interact with it like you can with the board, permanents, graveyards, or life totals.
I'm not sure the frequency of giving out FNM promos/Player Reward Programs is sufficient to encourage the kind of turnover and feet an average LGS needs to keep its doors open.
On the other hand, if better FNM Promos and other LGS-only incentives started being implemented it would encourage better attendance. They've got the data on the most played/in demand cards across formats, start incorporating that into incentive programs. I'm surprised WotC hasn't come up with something more innovative in terms of incentives considering the amount of cards in need of reprints when it comes to themed giveaways or prizes.
I managed to go 5-1 with what felt like a pretty standard BW vampires build in terms of creatures, although I got lucky to get Elenda, Radiant Destiny, and Profane Procession in my pool, as well as 4-5 pieces of solid removal (Luminous Bonds, Golden Demise, Impale, Moment of Craving, and Legion's Judgment). I think the standout was Golden Demise, playing that with City's Blessing was back breaking for a lot of opponents. Strangely Elenda didn't perform too well in all but a single game where she died as a 6/6 while I had Radiant Destiny with CB which ended up being rather insane.
I can also add to what a previous posted mentioned about Profane Procession in limited, it was absolutely unbeatable in a couple of games. It completely turns stalemates around and I can see it probably becoming a favorite in RIX sealed.
Refuge seems like the only one worth keeping, but because it requires three lands just to activate I’d say the spells you’d use it with likely top out at 4cmc which isn’t that amazing. Maybe some clever Phantasmal Image shenanigans are possible but I’m not even sure about that.
Not really control if it's a match up where you expect board wipes or lots of counters, Thrun might be better there.
Jund sometimes runs Damnation I suppose but against their general removal and Liliana Sigarda is great. She's also good against Eldrazi Tron if you expect All Is Dust out of them. I guess she blanks Living End's sacrifice effect?
She's also good against any deck that can't outrace a 5/5 flyer potentially on turn 3 if you Evo into a ramped 3 drop on 2.
I agree to an extent, but it's likely a generational thing. I can't think WotC's obvious effort for gameplay to be more creature based is coincidence, they should be intelligent enough to have done some testing or surveying that lead them to make that decision. I'm sure the more established fans echo your sentiments (I probably fall into that category) but I'm also sure that the average Joe picking up MTG now would gravitate more towards the idea of slamming creatures into each other and using PW abilities.
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Sidisi's Faithful
1x Viscera Seer
1x Baleful Strix
1x Dark Confidant
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Metallic Mimic
1x Nightscape Familiar
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Sage of Hours
1x Spellskite
1x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Grim Haruspex
1x Matter Reshaper
1x Sage of Fables
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1x Dack's Duplicate
1x Disciple of Bolas
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Treasonous Ogre
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x River Kelpie
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Scourge of the Throne
1x Sire of Stagnation
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Mark of Mutiny
1x Victimize
1x Windfall
1x Living Death
1x Insurrection
1x Blasphemous Act
Enchantments
1x Dark Tutelage
1x Fervor
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Unspeakable Symbol
1x Sneak Attack
1x Dictate of Erebos
Artifacts
1x Lotus Petal
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Dimir Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Jet Medallion
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Bident of Thassa
1x Whip of Erebos
Instant
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Go for the Throat
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Terminate
1x Chaos Warp
1x Clutch of the Undercity
Lands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Flooded Strand
1x Grand Coliseum
1x High Market
3x Island
3x Mountain
1x Polluted Delta
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Shivan Reef
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Sunken Hollow
3x Swamp
1x Tainted Isle
1x Tainted Peak
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Epiphany
1x Underground River
1x Watery Grave
Since a few people are sharing their different approaches to playing Marchesa I figured I'd share my list, in case anyone is looking for some ideas to incorporate into their own list. I started out trying to build an ultra-fast deck that ended up getting hated out rather quickly, so I pivoted a little bit into a more value-oriented list that doesn't look like the biggest threat at the table immediately. There are a few combos in the list, but I wouldn't say I manage to pull any of them off too frequently and rarely feel the need to look for them deliberately.
If they truly wanted to increase access or lower prices they’d realize high print run sets are where you do that, with cards like Thoughtseize and the KTK fetches being the best examples.
This myth that reprinting something in a masters set does much for the community is just that, a myth. Nobody at WotC can make that claim with a straight face if you look at the prices of staples like Liliana, Snapcaster, etc despite being reprinted.
Comparing the way that IMA was billed versus what its contents and outcome are I think it's a ****ing disaster.
Suffice it to say I think you’ll excite a lot more people and get more player participation when you offer a product that actually encourages engagement instead of treating your consumers like a captive market with subpar intelligence.
They’ve been treating players like fools for a while, that approach is likely to have a diminishing rate of returns.
Stuff like experience counters for EDH are likely fine, and the City's Blessing takes effort to generate, and something like PW emblems are not that common to get to. Energy on the other hand is produced too easily and there's no way to interact with it like you can with the board, permanents, graveyards, or life totals.
On the other hand, if better FNM Promos and other LGS-only incentives started being implemented it would encourage better attendance. They've got the data on the most played/in demand cards across formats, start incorporating that into incentive programs. I'm surprised WotC hasn't come up with something more innovative in terms of incentives considering the amount of cards in need of reprints when it comes to themed giveaways or prizes.
I can also add to what a previous posted mentioned about Profane Procession in limited, it was absolutely unbeatable in a couple of games. It completely turns stalemates around and I can see it probably becoming a favorite in RIX sealed.