Infect is a good matchup; burn it's a good matchup for the chalice version, but I can tell you it's a bad matchup for the processor list that is a strong deck but is a midrange deck. You can bolt mimic with the ability on the stack for example, and smasher is a clock of course but burn wants to win by turn 4/5 so it's close. Also,burn plays deflecting palm that destroyed me many times while I had smasher in play. Affinity also is a even matchup against the processor list, it depends on how fast is its start. Against tron processor list lose pretty easily.Now analyze the colorless deck:
- chalice on turn 1 shuts down burn, affinity, infect, tron and I don't know how many other decks/ cards like the best removal of modern, path to exile, and thoughtseize/Iok.
With evidence I don't know why you would ban the lands that can keep a fair new archetype (midrange processor eldrazi) in modern
Define what you mean when you use the word "fair"? Because the Eldrazi lands are the colorless equivalent of W/U/B/R/G lands that read "Tap, Add 2 W/U/B/R/G to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast W/U/B/R/G spells". Not to mention a number of colorless cost cards completely violate the concept behind the colour pie. A deck with virtually no mana fixing concerns can play solid creatures with effects across the entire colour pie.
Doesn't something seem a little off there?
Not to me if I'm playing the processor list. Go to the section modern of the forum, tier 2 then bw processor and then see those lists. Well those lists have problems even with elves and merfolks, burn and tron are a nightmare. You can see they run all the cards we saw today except for chalice,ssg and eldrazi mimic. Mimic is not so good if you can remove it and the card that turns bad match ups ( tron, burn, elves, affinity etc.. ) to good match ups is chalice on turn 1 using simian spirit guide
Like a previous user said, that opinion has zero merit because almost nobody is going to deliberately run a sub optimal list. What most people will do is get the most powerful list possible and ride it until the wheels fall off. The fact of the matter is the more results the optimal Eldrazi lists put up the more they'll get adopted until every schmoe and his mom are running 4 $120 Eldrazi Temples and the games are horrendous to play and watch.
They've created a monster and they're going to have to put it down.
Infect is a good matchup; burn it's a good matchup for the chalice version, but I can tell you it's a bad matchup for the processor list that is a strong deck but is a midrange deck. You can bolt mimic with the ability on the stack for example, and smasher is a clock of course but burn wants to win by turn 4/5 so it's close. Also,burn plays deflecting palm that destroyed me many times while I had smasher in play. Affinity also is a even matchup against the processor list, it depends on how fast is its start. Against tron processor list lose pretty easily.Now analyze the colorless deck:
- chalice on turn 1 shuts down burn, affinity, infect, tron and I don't know how many other decks/ cards like the best removal of modern, path to exile, and thoughtseize/Iok.
With evidence I don't know why you would ban the lands that can keep a fair new archetype (midrange processor eldrazi) in modern
Define what you mean when you use the word "fair"? Because the Eldrazi lands are the colorless equivalent of W/U/B/R/G lands that read "Tap, Add 2 W/U/B/R/G to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast W/U/B/R/G spells". Not to mention a number of colorless cost cards completely violate the concept behind the colour pie. A deck with virtually no mana fixing concerns can play solid creatures with effects across the entire colour pie.
Which nonland card/s is/are shared between all the Eldrazi decks? Surely there will be an unprecedented presence of something (Thought-Knot or Smasher I'm guessing) in terms of representation in top 8 decklists?
I suspect Kiki Chord's match up against the aggro decks might be good partly because of all the stalling it can do with Wall of Omens/Wall of Roots/Courser. The cantrip utility of Omens and the essential 2 mana provided by Roots when Chording probably make them far more functional in the deck than a more aggressive strategy. I was considering Carven Caryatid at a stage because I'm having trouble tracking down WoO's for whatever reason, but I suspect at 3 mana Caryatid might be competing too much with Coursers or Witnesses and the 2 power and extra toughness likely aren't worth the extra mana needed.
I totally agree about Painter's Servant being worse/more narrow than a Fulminator or Crumble to Dust, just thought the interaction was interesting.
For this weekend, my goal will be to construct a sideboard that combats the following two strategies:
1. Linear Aggro (Burn, Infect, Affinity, Merfolk)
2. Big Mana (Eldrazi, Tron)
I think most if not all of my sideboard will be made up of cards to beat these 6 deck types. Going to hope I can pull out the even grindy matchups with minimal sideboard help and just hope to flat out avoid the spell-based combo decks. Opinions?
Painter's Servant + Forge-Tender would be a cool interaction
Would Utter End or Beast Within possibly offer good alternatives to Path to Exile for Tron/Eldrazi? Or is it better to include SB cards that disable the mana ramp rather than deal with their potential threats?
Looks like he ran Hoogland's EXACT list from his streams this week, even down to the Eidolon in the main as a 61st card. Realm Razer in the board as well.
With regards to a hateful card against Eldrazi...some friends and I were talking this weekend after I got my Reality Smashed and someone came up with Painter's Servant. By making everything colored (doesn't matter what) you turn off both Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple, as both can only cast colorless Eldrazi spells. Plus, it can't be killed by Go for the Throat. Seems like a super corner case card, but I thought the interaction was interesting.
What's a 1/1 creature gonna do against Tron and Eldrazi exactly in your opinion?
As I understand it would block Wurmcoil (or any Eldrazi) perpetually and wouldn't be removed by Karn's minus or Ugin's plus, although it would die to Ugin's -X I suppose. Just figured it could be useful at buying time to find the combo.
Yeah, that's a fair point. I've just been browsing Gatherer looking at potential ways to foil the Eldrazi deck should it gain major traction, mainly looking at sideboard cards, and seeing the Skulk I figured it would have applications against Tron too just in terms of buying time. I assume it would also be immune to Kozilek's return. Even just theoretically it sounds a little too cute to be efficient or considered but I was just toying with the idea. That said I assume trying to close the game out faster is more desirable against Tron/Eldrazi rather than stretching it out necessarily?
I'm playing in a tournament with this deck for the first time this coming weekend going into a meta I'm uncertain of, so it could be a weird sideboard card people may not expect.
Edit: Also considering its usefulness just because it would be a relatively easy Chord target too.
I imagine a Slaughter Games on Scapeshift also almost buries them, maybe Crumble to Dust on Valakut?
Not if they play the primetime version.
Ah okay, my mistake.
As a side question related to rules, would Mistmeadow Skulk's protection from CMC 3+ make it immune to being targeted by abilities from planeswalkers like Ugin/Karn?
I imagine aggro decks for the most part are good match-ups for a resilient midrange deck like Kiki-Chord? Is the Kiki-Chord deck likely to shape up against the foreseeable meta in a similar way to the Birthing Pod decks where there are very few bad match-ups and most of them are just fair-decent?
Dead President - We play chordable effects that are the same as 2 out of 3 of Golgari Charm's modes, and the protection against board wipes (third mode) isn't the most important. Still not a lot of decks playing wipes, and we play a lot of stuff that's resilient to them.
Fair point. And I suppose due to the nature of the Chord deck non-creature spells are preferably kept to an absolute minimum.
Yeah Golgari Charm, although nice, isn't stunning in any situation really. Orzhov Pontiff is good at -1 (chordable, flicker-able), the enchantment destruction is rarely relevant (as twin is gone), and the regen is actually pretty good. But, I'd prefer to have Reveillark for that job. Personal preference with the charms is that, if they're good enough, they're meant for the maindeck. There's plenty of narrow cards that do the same trick has charm, so you'd put the better hoser in the board (e.g. pontiff for -1/-1, back to nature for enchantment hate, alternate threats if scared of wraths such as Elspeth). I'd also add that we're pretty good vs wrath effects on the whole anyway, and half the wraths don't let you regen!
Creeping Corrosion isn't too slow actually - it's pretty reasonable. There's a good chance we can cast it on T3 (from wall or BoP), and we have other control elements earlier in the curve (path / lightning helix / pridemage / spellskite). However, because its a narrow answer to artifacts, I think it has to fight with stony silence for the same job. I prefer Stony because it's so good vs tron, which is actually a fairly tough match. However, if you don't expect much tron, I can see 2 stony 1 creeping being correct.
Yeah that's true, Kiki-Chord seems far more resilient to board wipes than the majority of decks in the format probably. I'm trying to figure out a sideboard that covers the most varied potential archetypes. I don't play in the States, and a lot of decks here are likely to be brewed and idiosyncratic concoctions rather than optimized lists of the Tier1/2 favorites - but at the same time I know I've seen a number of Burn/Tron/Affinity/Ad Naus pieces bought up in my area. So I don't want to diversify the sideboard to such a degree that I've got half-assed "solutions" to strong decks, but I feel like I'll need to cover quite a lot of bases and pick what I think is most likely to show up that's problematic.
Due to lack of tournament experience I tend to have a horrible habit of exaggerating a card's application, but would Golgari Charm perhaps make a decent sideboard card? All three modes seem like they could have applications against decks that are predicted to gain popularity after the Twin ban, so I figured I might look for a spot for one copy?
I haven't seen any matches between Kiki Chord and Affinity, so I might be answering my own question here, but is something like Creeping Corrosion far too slow to be considered a good inclusion?
DeadPresident...yeeah, chording in spellskite, or scavenging ooze, or orzhov pontiff, etc, at instant speed is pretty damn important, at least the version of the deck I play. If you're playing a selesnya value engine, you might have less of a problem (more finks, less specific answers), but chord seems pretty core.
Totally agree with this. Just want to add as well that Congregation is interesting but it seems kinda fragile - it's a bit of a non-bo with Chord, Courser of Kruphix, and fetchlands/shuffling your deck in general off of a Path or Ghost Quarter or something.
Edit: just saw your other comment - one of the advantages of Chord is that you can go off with just a single copy at instant speed, although you need A.) multiple turns or B.) a butt-ton of mana. You can Chord for x=3 to get Eternal Witness and get back Chord, then Chord for x=4 to get Restoration Angel, blink the Witness, and get Chord back again, then Chord for Kiki and combo. Congregation might do it as well, but it isn't as flexible or as prompt of a response as Chord.
Yeah I see what you mean, very fair point. I mean ideally one could arrange Kiki/Angel/Utility creature in an optimal order with Congregation and draw into them naturally, but that could easily fall apart due to easy disruption or counters or whatever else. While Chord effectively allows advantage to be gained in response to an opponent's actions with regard to actually casting the creatures. I'm going to make an effort to get the Chords, as this is pretty much the only modern deck I'll be playing with what I've got, so hopefully I'll be around from time to time to glean some knowledge from the more experienced folks here!
DeadPresident...yeeah, chording in spellskite, or scavenging ooze, or orzhov pontiff, etc, at instant speed is pretty damn important, at least the version of the deck I play. If you're playing a selesnya value engine, you might have less of a problem (more finks, less specific answers), but chord seems pretty core.
Cool, thanks for the input. I suspected as much, but I figured I'd post the idea in any case. The only way I suppose CaD could help is in terms of assembling the Kiki/Angel combo in hand faster, but as far as general utility goes it's near useless in most respects.
Like a previous user said, that opinion has zero merit because almost nobody is going to deliberately run a sub optimal list. What most people will do is get the most powerful list possible and ride it until the wheels fall off. The fact of the matter is the more results the optimal Eldrazi lists put up the more they'll get adopted until every schmoe and his mom are running 4 $120 Eldrazi Temples and the games are horrendous to play and watch.
They've created a monster and they're going to have to put it down.
Define what you mean when you use the word "fair"? Because the Eldrazi lands are the colorless equivalent of W/U/B/R/G lands that read "Tap, Add 2 W/U/B/R/G to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast W/U/B/R/G spells". Not to mention a number of colorless cost cards completely violate the concept behind the colour pie. A deck with virtually no mana fixing concerns can play solid creatures with effects across the entire colour pie.
Doesn't something seem a little off there?
Painter's Servant + Forge-Tender would be a cool interaction
Would Utter End or Beast Within possibly offer good alternatives to Path to Exile for Tron/Eldrazi? Or is it better to include SB cards that disable the mana ramp rather than deal with their potential threats?
Painter's Servant actually seems really sweet.
As I understand it would block Wurmcoil (or any Eldrazi) perpetually and wouldn't be removed by Karn's minus or Ugin's plus, although it would die to Ugin's -X I suppose. Just figured it could be useful at buying time to find the combo.
I'm playing in a tournament with this deck for the first time this coming weekend going into a meta I'm uncertain of, so it could be a weird sideboard card people may not expect.
Edit: Also considering its usefulness just because it would be a relatively easy Chord target too.
Ah okay, my mistake.
As a side question related to rules, would Mistmeadow Skulk's protection from CMC 3+ make it immune to being targeted by abilities from planeswalkers like Ugin/Karn?
Fair point. And I suppose due to the nature of the Chord deck non-creature spells are preferably kept to an absolute minimum.
Yeah that's true, Kiki-Chord seems far more resilient to board wipes than the majority of decks in the format probably. I'm trying to figure out a sideboard that covers the most varied potential archetypes. I don't play in the States, and a lot of decks here are likely to be brewed and idiosyncratic concoctions rather than optimized lists of the Tier1/2 favorites - but at the same time I know I've seen a number of Burn/Tron/Affinity/Ad Naus pieces bought up in my area. So I don't want to diversify the sideboard to such a degree that I've got half-assed "solutions" to strong decks, but I feel like I'll need to cover quite a lot of bases and pick what I think is most likely to show up that's problematic.
I haven't seen any matches between Kiki Chord and Affinity, so I might be answering my own question here, but is something like Creeping Corrosion far too slow to be considered a good inclusion?
Thanks
Yeah I see what you mean, very fair point. I mean ideally one could arrange Kiki/Angel/Utility creature in an optimal order with Congregation and draw into them naturally, but that could easily fall apart due to easy disruption or counters or whatever else. While Chord effectively allows advantage to be gained in response to an opponent's actions with regard to actually casting the creatures. I'm going to make an effort to get the Chords, as this is pretty much the only modern deck I'll be playing with what I've got, so hopefully I'll be around from time to time to glean some knowledge from the more experienced folks here!
Cool, thanks for the input. I suspected as much, but I figured I'd post the idea in any case. The only way I suppose CaD could help is in terms of assembling the Kiki/Angel combo in hand faster, but as far as general utility goes it's near useless in most respects.