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  • posted a message on Solrune's Marchesa, the Black Rose (Flipping Thrones in Multiplayer)
    Mikaeus and Mimic work that way with Redcap, yeah. I’d recommend maybe skipping Triskelion just because it doesn’t do much on its own and your slot might be better spent on a higher impact card.

    I don’t run Redcap but I do play Glen Elendra Archmage for infinite sac trigger shenanigans, that’s possibly an additional option to consider.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Has anyone tried out Neoform in their lists yet and managed to cast it a few times?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    I actually think I cut Azami for the Willbreaker. After playing Azami for some time I realized that the likes of Sylvan Libary/Rhystic Study/Edric, Spymaster of Trest covered my card draw fairly well, but I felt like my threats or win conditions were a bit slim so I included Willbreaker to experiment with a bit.

    It's funny you mention Ixidron - I flipped past it in my EDH file earlier this week and I kept thinking I need to try it. I've actually noticed now and then that in situations where I would want to tutor up the Cataclysmic Gearhulk I often have multiple enchantments/artifacts out and I decide against the Gearhulk because I don't want to lose them. Ixidron might actually be a really great substitute, I think I'm going to make that swap and test it out! I used to run Venser and I quite liked him, if I can find an appropriate cut I wouldn't mind including him again, but I think at the time I already had Mystic Snake so I felt comfortable letting Venser go.

    I'd highly recommend the Muse if you do feel like you need something that fulfills that function to test out a bit, if I manage to get to my end step with the Muse and a single counter spell in hand games tend to go well for me. I also run Wilderness Reclamation as a similar card, I'm really fond of that type of effect because I tend towards high amounts of instant speed interaction in my list.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Quote from Kitsune_18 »
    Ah yeah, of course - so whatever is on the board beforehand would get the bonus but not the Avenger or tokens. That rules that one out.


    Whatever you search for will still get the +/+ and haste, I believe, but EtB triggers will not happen until the entire spell resolves.

    I also feel like my 5 drops are a bit boring. 3 graveyard recursion cards live at 5 cmc and then a few "silver bullet" type cards, but I find there isn't really a "goodstuff" card to grab if I don't need either of those. I've tried Thalia's Lancers in the past and, although the tutoring is quite nice, the body just isn't as impressive as I'd like. I'd usually rather just have Reveillark.


    Ah okay, cool.

    Yeah, I have to admit whenever I'm tutoring for 4/5 drops I always feel like I want to find an effect I don't have, but most 5cmc creatures in Bant aren't amazing, I'm pretty sure the best options have been discussed in threads like this already. I will say after I started playing Seedborn Muse it became the most common 5 drop I find outside of Karmic Guide. I run about 7 counter spells in my list so I'm usually able to protect the Muse and it's quite a game changer, I'd highly recommend anyone who hasn't given it a few games to see if it potentially works for them. It isn't really good stuff in the traditional sense since it doesn't impact the board when it ETBs, but it usually puts me ahead a decent amount.

    Just for reference or interest my current list of 5cmc creatures is:

    Karmic Guide
    Seedborn Muse
    Body Double
    Cataclysmic Gearhulk
    Willbreaker
    Reveillark

    The utility four drop I ended up adding was Palace Jailer and I've been reasonably impressed with it, almost always grabs a creature and the card draw is never bad.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Ah yeah, of course - so whatever is on the board beforehand would get the bonus but not the Avenger or tokens. That rules that one out.

    I managed to get two games in today (admittedly not against the most tuned decks) and used Vannifar in the first and she felt a little awkward. Coincidentally I had Lightning Greaves, but because of the shroud it’s impossible to protect Vannifar and use Derevi’s untap to abuse her ability.

    Although she did generate value at the time because nobody could remove her it didn’t feel all that impressive.

    In the second game I had the same experience Zen mentioned before of having the opportunity to tutor for her multiple times but it never seemed like that was the optimal play. Useful card for sure but my preliminary feeling is that she might just be a bit slow and clunky.

    Slight side note - a card I did try out was Willbreaker and it ended up performing quite well. I often feel like my 5-drops are a little boring and there were a few occasions where finding Willbreaker and using a couple of Derevi triggers to steal problematic creatures was useful.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    I’d agree on the cutting GSZ consensus. Chord has just been too valuable in my experience, instant speed shenanigans are just too useful to pass up.

    As far as an instant win con with FoD I think Craterhoof , Avenger of Zendikar or Pathbreaker Ibex make the most sense. It’ll have to be a card that gives mass evasion. Something that grants doublestrike could be good for the commander damage route.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Quote from ZenN »
    Yeah, sadly. I figured it’s possible that as a mid/late game Pod/Vannifar Target she could turn our 1-3 drops into 4/4’s and establish some solid board presence, but really, when the 5 drop slot has stuff like Karmic Guide, Cataclysmic Gearhulk, Seedborn Muse, and Willbreaker as competition Oketra kind of falls flat.

    Nothing in this set is absolutely begging to be accommodated IMO, not in the same way cards like Vannifar were.
    Speaking of Prime Speaker Vannifar...

    On Friday night I finally had a chance to play some games with my usual group with her in the deck. I ended up slotting her in over Mirari's Wake for the time being to try her out.

    I didn't cast her once. I never tutored for her. I had several opportunities, I just never wanted to. Every time I could, it felt like a bad play. In many cases, she was just going to die before I'd get a chance to untap with her, and in others I just had to spend my mana doing other things.

    I didn't think it would bug me that much that she needs a turn cycle to be useful, but it really did. In 1v1 it would've been much less of an issue, but in a 4 player game, all people who know my shenanigans, there was no way they were ever going to let me untap with her.

    I'm going to try one more session with her, but I'm sad to say that I don't think she'll be making the cut.


    I've kind of been worried about that potential drawback for Vannifar. Of all the cards in my deck (and probably any green deck) the highest priority for the table is dealing with me getting Birthing Pod online, so Vannifar will undoubtedly catch the same attention and without haste might mean she's a dead card quite often. If the fine print with her is "Have Greaves available or she's useless" that kind of makes her a bit of an awkward card to include, sadly.

    I have yet to test her out but I'm pretty sure your and my playing experiences are rather similar, I generally also tend to have the reputation that whatever plans I might have need to be rapidly disrupted. I'll wait to test it out but I suspect I might have a similar experience, which is kind of sad. But, there are a massive amount of creature tutors already available so it's likely not that much of an issue, but it is a bit of a shame.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Yeah, sadly. I figured it’s possible that as a mid/late game Pod/Vannifar Target she could turn our 1-3 drops into 4/4’s and establish some solid board presence, but really, when the 5 drop slot has stuff like Karmic Guide, Cataclysmic Gearhulk, Seedborn Muse, and Willbreaker as competition Oketra kind of falls flat.

    Nothing in this set is absolutely begging to be accommodated IMO, not in the same way cards like Vannifar were.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Yeah - super disappointed with that to be honest.

    Jenara lists usually playing very high value/quality cards meaning the bar is pretty high to find new additions, but even so Rhonas is quite tame in comparison to Bontu.

    It does appear as though the ETB theme is carrying through - we can only hope that Kefnet or Oketra have high impact effects but I’m not optimistic.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Yeah I'm not sure the Double has a place here. Impersonator has a very low floor and very high ceiling in my experience, but the ability to suddenly turn into any nonland permanent is often incredibly strong if one opponent has an impressive creature/artifact/enchantment out.

    I'm not sure which creature/PW from the average Jenara list is so great one would replace another Clone-effect for the Double.


    After seeing Bontu spoiled I'm very curious about what the rest of the God-Eternal cards look like, particularly if they're a cycle of ETB effects.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Solrune's Marchesa, the Black Rose (Flipping Thrones in Multiplayer)
    Spark Double only being able to copy permanents we would control might end up being too much of a draw back, although the ability to protect itself straight off the bat and also to potentially copy Marchesa or any other legend is pretty neat.

    Bontu and the Pig I'm also curious about, they're both potentially very impactful.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Yeah, Neoform opens up lines like 3 drop -> Archeomancer, get back Neoform -> Karmic Guide, get back Archeomancer and Neoform, etc, but abusing it requires a lot of mana. I never thought I'd say it but I actually think Pod/Vannifar/Evo/Chord might be about as many of those kinds of effects as one would want and Neoform perhaps doesn't have enough of an upside to add or cut one of the others for.

    Having reconsidered Dovin's Veto a bit it might have a place in some Jenara/Derevi lists. Most lists run cards like Path to Exile/Swords/Palace Jailer so handling creature threats isn't a big problem, so having an uncounterable Negate could provide some value.

    I've added Vannifar to my list but haven't gotten any games in yet, hopefully that'll change this coming weekend and I'll have some positive feedback to give. I'm very curious to hear about everyone else's experiences with her, too.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Teferi I think is the best out of the lot, he has a solid effect decent abilities, and also passes the Sun Titan test.

    I was super excited about Neoform initially but I think a suite of Pod/Evo/Chord/Vannifar is sufficient for me and Neoform is probably overkill and not as good as the others.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    I occasionally run Jenara but unfortunately I think I've found myself in pods where I need a more defensive and resilient commander in order to stay alive. I think as a lone threat Jenara sadly gets outclassed by what a lot of my opponents did in the past and I ended up losing due to having an inability to protect myself/not having a threat that matched up well.

    Derevi is well-geared toward playing defensively and incentivizing opponents to attack each other and leave you alone because you can blank an attack by tapping a creature or just blocking ad infinitum.

    I'd recommend if anyone ever feels like their Jenara deck isn't doing it for them anymore or feels underpowered to try Derevi and see if it helps out. I think if it were up to me I'd still be running Jenara but my playgroup sort of forced me into considering other avenues like Atraxa or Derevi.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Jenara, Asura of War - Value Town
    Quote from Kitsune_18 »
    @DeadPresident2910, are you solely running the Derevi, Empyrial Tactician list you posted a while back, or do you have a Jenara list in addition to that?


    At the moment it's solely Derevi - but at the time I posted the list on the previous page I had used the same list for Jenara minus two cards; Mana Vault and Ashnod's Altar. I can't quite recall what I had in their spots, but those are the two significant changes I remember making.

    In case it's helpful this is the current list, almost exactly the same but with a couple of changes:

    DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    1x Mother of Runes
    1x Serra Ascendant
    1x Coiling Oracle
    1x Fauna Shaman
    1x Phantasmal Image
    1x Saffi Eriksdotter
    1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1x Snapcaster Mage
    1x Kiora's Follower
    1x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Aven Mindcensor
    1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Reclamation Sage
    1x Wood Elves
    1x Clever Impersonator
    1x Mystic Snake
    1x Palace Jailer
    1x Azami, Lady of Scrolls
    1x Body Double
    1x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
    1x Karmic Guide
    1x Reveillark
    1x Seedborn Muse
    1x Deadeye Navigator
    1x Prime Speaker Zegana
    1x Sun Titan
    1x Palinchron
    1x Resolute Archangel
    1x Craterhoof Behemoth

    1x Mana Vault
    1x Skullclamp
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Lightning Greaves
    1x Mask of Memory
    1x Ashnod's Altar
    1x Birthing Pod

    1x Blind Obedience
    1x Cryptolith Rite
    1x Sylvan Library
    1x Aura Shards
    1x Beastmaster Ascension
    1x Rhystic Study
    1x Wilderness Reclamation

    1x Brainstorm
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Path to Exile
    1x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Arcane Denial
    1x Counterspell
    1x Cyclonic Rift
    1x Eladamri's Call
    1x Familiar's Ruse
    1x Chord of Calling
    1x Beast Within
    1x Render Silent
    1x Cryptic Command
    1x Fact or Fiction

    1x Tezzeret the Seeker

    1x Green Sun's Zenith
    1x Ponder
    1x Serum Visions
    1x Farseek
    1x Nature's Lore
    1x Eldritch Evolution
    1x Supreme Verdict

    1x Alchemist's Refuge
    1x Botanical Sanctum
    1x Breeding Pool
    1x Canopy Vista
    1x City of Brass
    1x Command Tower
    1x Flooded Strand
    3x Forest
    1x Gavony Township
    1x Glacial Fortress
    1x Hallowed Fountain
    1x Hinterland Harbor
    3x Island
    3x Plains
    1x Polluted Delta
    1x Prairie Stream
    1x Razorverge Thicket
    1x Reliquary Tower
    1x Seaside Citadel
    1x Sunpetal Grove
    1x Temple Garden
    1x Temple of Enlightenment
    1x Temple of Mystery
    1x Temple of Plenty
    1x Temple of the False God
    1x Windswept Heath
    1x Yavimaya Coast


    If I had to switch to Jenara again I think I'd keep the list precisely the same but with the same two changes of Mana Vault and Ashnod's Altar out - probably for Sword of Fire and Ice and Steel of the Godhead, I recall those being quite effective with Jenara. I'm hoping to get a Vannifar some time soon, it's the card from the new set I'm most curious to try out. Unfortunately life's been getting in the way of playing MTG a little bit, but hopefully everyone here is kicking ass and taking names with their Jenara/Derevi lists Thumbs Up
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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