MTG Salvation

Quote from SplashBros »

Also a question for the Gw players, how often do you keep a hand with no enchantress in it?

Quote from Pushkin »

Tapped Out, I've been playing and tweaking this deck since the second week of the format and I really like where my list is currently at. It's pretty close to yours actually. I'll try to explain my reasoning below.

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land - 23 3x Forest 4x Frontier Bivouac 2x Mana Confluence 3x Mountain 1x Shivan Reef 1x Temple of Epiphany 1x Temple of Mystery 4x Wooded Foothills 4x Yavimaya Coast Creatures - 28 3x Ashcloud Phoenix 4x Boon Satyr 4x Elvish Mystic 3x Heir of the Wilds 4x Polukranos, World Eater 4x Rattleclaw Mystic 4x Savage Knuckleblade 2x Stormbreath Dragon	Spells - 9 3x Crater's Claws 2x Lightning Strike 2x Stubborn Denial 2x Temur Charm	Sideboard: 2x Arc Lightning 2x Disdainful Stroke 4x Hunt the Hunter 2x Lightning Strike 2x Magma Spray 2x Stubborn Denial 1x Temur Charm

I'm 100% sold on the maindeck at this point and will not be making any tweaks this time around. I've slowly increased the number of Elvish Mystics and Ashcloud Phoenixes while trimming down the spell count (and a Stormbreath Dragon). A lot of people have expressed interest in going down to 2 or 3 elves but I think thats a mistake. What they are feeling is the need to keep the 4+ power threat dense really high and I think the proper solution to that is to trim the spells down to the bare minimum.

The only slots I'm not sure about are the SB Temur Charm and the 4th Hunt the Hunter. Disdainful Stroke felt too narrow for a third copy when Mana Leak Charm is almost the same card but can counter cheaper things sometimes while having additional applications. The 4th Hunt the Hunter because you ALWAYS want to draw at least 1 vs g/x devotion and probably don't mind drawing 3. It's such a blowout.

Stormbreath Dragon is constantly over-performing and by now I wouldn't even consider playing Sarkhan.

I cut one Mana Confluence because drawing 2 of them is bad. Also having to play a confluence on turn 1 is bad. I've made one of the scrylands u/g and added an additional basic Mountain to compensate. The consensus seems to have landed on 6 taplands and I find myself agreeing with that.

Quote from lugger »

A couple things on the mana base for GRx Monsters.

Tap lands feel very bad. However, at least 4 are very necessary given the nature of our mana base. Depending on how aggressive you want your deck to be, I think the less the better. I've found 5 to be the sweet spot with a white splash. This also lets me run a full set of Elvish Mystic since there are fewer tap lands to take up my turn 1 play. As you play more taplands to compensate either a higher curve or worse mana base, the value of Elvish Mystic is greatly reduced. This was the case last year with Jund Monsters. Ketter's original list ran 5 tap lands (not counting shocks -- which are flexible). Later, as the deck spilled into Jund, there were times when the deck would run 7. There are varying values of running 7 scrylands. It makes Courser of Kruphix great, but it reduces the deck's aggressiveness. With CVM's Jund Monsters playing Goblin Rabblemaster update, CVM was back to the original 5 scry(tapped) lands in attempt to allow for his mana base to keep up with his deck's aggressiveness.

Your mana base restricts your aggressiveness. I like scry lands as they're powerful. However, they restrict the liklihood that I play Goblin Rabblemaster on turn 2 or 3. They also restrict the liklihood that you play your Savage Knuckleblade (w/ haste) earlier than turn 4. Taplands are less aggressive than painlands, fetchlands, and basics. Your creature package should be as fast as your mana base. Your 3 color, no-creature-greater-than-4cmc, should not be dallying with 7-8 tap lands. I think 5 is the max a lot of decks should be looking at, but I like jamming threats as fast as possible. If you're dallying in 7-8 tap lands, you should be playing some BOMBS! Like, "get out the way", 6 cmc "you lose" cards coming.

When building your mana base, you also have to take into account your mana dorks. Tap lands and 2 cmcm mana dorks are good friends. The play, "t1 tapland, t2 mana dork," is obvious and aggressive. However, taplands and Elvish Mystic are not friends. Of note, TappedOut's list only runs 3 Elvish Mystics while running 6 tapped lands. This makes sense since Elvish Mystic is really only powerful turn 1. It's ok turn 2 and gets (obviously) subsequently worse. If he were running 7-8 tapped lands, he might even want to run only 2 cmc mana dorks.

For aggressiveness, it helps when your 3 drops (and two drops) are not mana intensive. Goblin Rabblemaster is not mana intensive. Savage Knuckleblade is very mana intensive. You have to assume that you're getting your "money's" (aka life loss or feasible tempo loss) worth off of Savage Knuckleblade. I think Knuckleblade is very worth it turns 2 through 3. You'll have moments when it doesn't work out -- but I think Savage Knuckleblade is worth it for most Temur lists. I mean, both Rabblemaster and Knuckleblade sorta suck as the game goes on. However, Knuckleblade is certainly better than Rabblemaster post turn 5. However, keep in mind that given Knuckleblade's mana cost restrictions, it's apparent that Knuckleblade is typically going to be less aggressive. It's also worth mentioning Elvish Mystic's synergy with these guys. Mystic is the reason you can play t2 Rabblemaster or Knuckleblade. Rattleclaw Mystic (while cool) only facilitates a hasty t3 Knuckleblade.

However, your 4 drops are why you play your 2 cmc mana dork. There is no denying the power of a t3 Polukranos, World Eater. t2 mana also is more mana positive (in the fixing sense) than Elvish Mystic. Ashcloud Phoenix and Polukranos in the same deck can be a bit hopeful. But with 2 cmc mana dorks, playing t3 Phoenix or Polukranos is a piece of cake.

Here's what to take away from this.

1. Painful manabase = faster deck. Don't bother with pain lands if you're not trying to be fast. You should absolutely bother if you're playing aggressive 3 drops.

2. Dorks helps certain points on your curve. Elvish Mystic helps your aggressive 3 drops. Rattleclaw Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid facilitate your aggressive 4 drops.

3. Your mana dorks and taplands work in cohesion. Don't run 8 tap lands and 4x Elvish Mystic. If you're running 8 tap lands, you should be running 6+ 2 cmc mana dorks, fewer 3cmc beaters, and more 4+cmc beaters.

Quote from lugger »

Quote from TheIronCaptain »

What sort of bombs did you have in mind

Basically that. Maybe Surrak. Depends on the flavor of the month. You can also play Hornet Queen, Arbor Colossus, and Genesis Hydra but meh.

Quote from TheIronCaptain »

is that list the proper configuration to run said bombs?

I have no idea. That list needs more removal. By going bigger, you're conceding the early portions of the game to developing your mana, so you have to make sure that when Abzan goes long, you can as well.

Though, honestly, RUG is not well developed for the grindy game. If you're going to be playing those colors, play fast and low to the ground (a la Temur Tempo).

Quote from SplashBros »

How has the exploration worked for you?

Quote from SplashBros »

hmm.. maybe i will cut the # of GSZ, can someone post one of their GW lists?

Quote from Cumeau »

Quote from Mindrotted »

Have you had a chance to do any testing yet? I've put together a similar list that I want to get more walkers in, but I've only had a chance to play against mono black aggro. The list performed pretty well, but you can't really take away too much from one match up.

Here's the list I'm starting with:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Instants/Sorceries (25): 4 Thoughtseize 1 Despise 4 Lightning Strike 3 Crackling Doom 4 Heroes Downfall 2 Deflecting Palm 1 Crater’s Claw 3 End Hostilities 2 Anger of the Gods 1 Sign in Blood	Creatures (7): 4 Haunted Plate Mail 3 Soldier of the Pantheon Planeswalkers (3): 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker 1 Chandra, Pyromaster Land (25): 4 Nomad Outpost 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2 Temple of Silence 2 Temple of Triumph 1 Temple of Malice 3 Battlefield Forge 2 Swamp 2 Plains 3 Mountain

So far I've really liked Crackling Doom as a way to get a threat off the board and to get in for a little bit of damage. Crater's Claw also really surprised me by just winning games out of no where. The look on your opponent's face when you top deck this late game and dome them for 10 is wonderful. Haunted Plate Mail did some work too by activating it after a wrath and swinging. I even got to live the dream one time with it, by strapping it to a dragon Sarkhan and swinging for 8 in the air with pseudo vigilance! Plate Mail was really just a place holder until I rounded up some other cards, but fun to mess around with. Like I said, I think upping the amount of walkers will go a long way, but I think Mardu control has real potential.

Amazing.

I was just going to leave a message on how Haunted Plate Mail fits his list.

That card needs some more love.

Quote from Meyou »

Sultai deck by Riley Curran placed 17th at SCG Open. It says 64th under the deck tech, but the standings has him just missing the top 16.

Sultai Control

Quote from SplashBros »

So im new to the site, and recently built Enchantress. Heres my list id like feedback if possible and would appreciate it greatly. Also dont know how to format O_O so please forgive me.

2 Helm of Obedience
2 Abundant Growth
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Green Sun's Zenith
10 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
1 City of Solitude
1 Karmic Justice
3 Carpet of Flowers

Quote from Michaud339 »

So far I'm happy having both in my sideboard and running Keranos mainboard. Chandra mainboard (which I have done the past few weeks) has been too situation specific, so I'd rather have her ONLY be situation specific and live in the sideboard.

Quote from Concordant »

Tescrin, you are exactly right. Thats how this mess started. Now we are at weird subargument where WeaponX thinks that knowing the top of the library isn't useful, that I am incompetent to play this game and that I can't do math. We're not even debating whether Mirri's Guile is better than Sylvan Library anymore.

Quote from Kamahl, the Fallen »

Why is it that nobody can use deck tags?

I picked Sultai back up for the winter IQ's, the deck is not really a known force and I want to try and get under the radar with it in the next couple of IQ's. I believe the deck to be fairly well positioned at higher levels of play where strategies are a bit more focused. The deck has a really good midrange game, a decent aggro game and a solid control game. I really am just hoping to dodge Mono Red and Mono black aggro.

I am also back on the AEtherspouts plan with Perilous Vault in the board. AEtherspouts is good coverage or the combo deck I feel.

Quote from csanders »

Ran this list at FNM last night, went 3-0-1 (went to time with Jeskai Aggro in rd 1)

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Instants: 4 Crackling Doom 1 Utter End 4 Mardu Charm 4 Lightning Strike Sorceries: 2 End Hostilities 2 Thoughtseize 2 Anger of the Gods 1 Read the Bones Enchantments: 4 Chained to the Rocks 1 Banishing Light Walkers: 1 Liliana Vess 2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion 1 Chandra, Pyromaster	Land: 3 Nomad Outpost 1 Temple of Malice 4 Temple of Silence 4 Temple of Triumph 2 Bloodstained Mire 2 Plains 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 6 Mountain 1 Swamp 3 Evolving Wilds Creatures: 2 Ashcloud Phoenix 2 Mogis, God of Slaughter	Sideboard 4 Nyx-Fleece Ram 2 Stain the Mind 1 Resolute Archangel 3 Goblin Rabblemaster 2 Thoughtseize 1 End Hostilities 1 Anger of the Gods 1 Liliana Vess

Originally, Mogis and Ashcloud were supposed to be filler until I can find more Chandra and a couple of Sarkhan... but they were really good in a heavily Jeskai field (I faced it 3/4 games, with the 4th being UW Heroic). Ashcloud is a must-answer threat that typically takes two removal spells (at least) to kill off, and Mogis is a potent clock when you've managed to keep all of their creatures away. I'm still looking to add at least one more Chandra and at least one Sarkhan.

Any thoughts?

Quote from Michaud339 »

Went 4-1 last night and finished 2nd overall against a really diverse meta at one of my LGS. My only loss was to complete and utter mana-screw two games in a row, so....just the luck of magic.

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 4 Shivan Reef 2 Battlefield Forge 2 Temple of Epiphany 3 Temple of Triumph (I now have 4) 2 Flooded Strand 4 Mystic Monastery 2 Island 2 Plains 3 Mountain Creatures 1 Hushwing Gryff 3 Seeker of the Way 4 Mantis Rider 4 Goblin Rabblemaster 1 Stormbreath Dragon 1 Keranos, God of Storms	Planeswalkers 1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker Spells 4 Stoke the Flames 4 Lightning Strike 4 Jeskai Charm 4 Magma Jet 2 Dig Through Time 2 Banishing Light 1 Disdainful Stroke	Sideboard 1 Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker 1 Chandra, Pyromaster 2 Suspension Field 1 Negate 1 Deflecting Palm 2 Disdainful Stroke 2 End Hostilities 2 Anger of the Gods 1 Arc Lightning 1 Prognostic Sphinx 1 Hushwing Gryff

My wins last night were against Sidisi Whip, Naya Walkers, U/W Heroic and last match was against a Temur Aggro build.
My loss was against a Jeskai Tokens that I should've beat, but I drew a hand with two land (both games) and proceeded to not draw another land until 4-5. It didn't go well I had anger of the gods in hand, but just couldnt play it to wipe out 6 tokens

Keranos is a card I just traded for last night, and I like having him mainboard. With scrylands he's very powerful and I was always happy to have him in hand.
Rabblemaster won multiple games for me using Jeskai Charm to bounce blockers and using the goblin tokens to case stoke to avoid running into blockers so I could bounce them the next turn and attack for 6 with rabble and two tokens. That move happened at least 3 different times.
I feel good about a single hushwing gryff in the main. Even if it doesnt shut anything down most people aren't running a lot of flyers and it's good to get in some easy damage, if nothing else. Either way, I prefer having the single gryff over a fourth Seeker.
Seeker still isn't doing much for me, but I'm happier having a few more targets for removal. If they arent in the board the removal is saved for my mantis and rabblemaster, and that's absolutely not what I want.

The only sideboard cards that did much for me (and by much, I mean anything) were End Hostilities and Prognostic Sphinx (mostly for the scry 3).

I dropped Gods Wiling in favor of a fourth Magma Jet and didnt miss it tonight, but I do like the card. I'll probably put 2, or at least 1, Gods Willing in the sideboard.