Obviously this is good on turn 3, but on turn 8.... yuck...
I don't agree with this, I think the opposite is true. Exerting your lands during the development stage of the game hinders you more than the late game, IMO. This lets me keep counter magic up late game and I can still have 4-5 mana open next turn while 3 of my lands stay exerted.
This doesn't just keep the 3 lands you tapped to cast this tapped. It keep all your lands tapped during the next turn, regardless of how they got tapped. So if you cast this, then had 4 mana for cryptic command, all 7 lands would stay tapped the next turn
No you do not sacrifice it. Groundbreaker's ability is a triggered ability that happens at the beginning of the end step. Turn to frog removes this ability, and the effect isn't regained (i.e. the part that says until end of turn) until the cleanup step, which is after the beginning of the end step. Note, that during your opponent's end step, groundbreaker's ability will still trigger, making you sacrifice it (i.e. you wouldn't be able to attack with it again).
Yes you would, as each combat celebrant is a separate trigger. Note that the untap is tied to the resolution of this trigger, so even though you would get 4 extra combat steps, if you exerted them all at the same time, the untap only happens once.
Interesting point someone made on the spoiler thread of this card: this is the only god you can't "turn off" once it becomes a creature.
i.e. once a creature dies on your side, Bontu will be able to attack or block, whereas for the other gods, you can "turn them off"
red god -> make the draw cards (the worst to do to)
blue god -> make them discard cards
green god -> kill the 4+ power creature
white god -> kill a creature so they have less than 3 other creatures
I don't know how relevant it will be to helping this card out in a cube format, but it's something to consider.
This is a beating with graver crawler. You play this and put the -1/-1 counters on crawler, ping them for 1, then recast crawler since this is a zombie.
EDIT: Apparently there's a caveat here with undying. If the creature had a +1/+1 counter when it died - even if it also had -1/-1 counters to cancel - undying won't trigger. So this only works if geist hasn't already died once.
This is not correct. +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters dont just cancel each other, they actually remove each other from whatever permanent they're on so giving a -1/-1 counter to an undying creature will in fact bring it back with a +1/+1 counter again.
Nope, this is correct. The counters only cancel during the SBA check, and during that time, the game sees that the geist has 0 or less power and sends it to the graveyard. What happens is when geist dies, it checks the last known information, which it has BOTH the single +1/+1 counter AND the 3 -1/-1 counters, so it will not come back.
EDIT: relevant rules quoted
121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.
704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanent’s last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed.
Example: You control Young Wolf, a 1/1 creature with undying, and it has a +1/+1 counter on it. A spell puts three -1/-1 counters on Young Wolf. Before state-based actions are performed, Young Wolf has one +1/+1 counter and three -1/-1 counters on it. After state-based actions are performed, Young Wolf is in the graveyard. When it was last on the battlefield, it had a +1/+1 counter on it, so undying will not trigger.
If that was the case, then hunt the weak wouldn't work as intended, since it puts a +1/+1 counter then fights, and all that resolves at the same time.
The big difference between garruk and other cards with the fight keyword is the timing of the damage. Garruk does damage first, which will apply the -1/-1 counters. Fight has them do damage at the same time.
I've conferred with a few other judges, and it does work the way you stated wtwlf
Edit: this was directed at steve_man, for some reason forum isnt allowing me to quote.
My first read through would be that since the ability is 2 separate actions, garruk deals damage, then the creature. So the creature would get the -3/-3 counters, then garruk would take no damage. Then the creature dies from SBA after the ability has fully resolved.
The only real advantage I see to this card is getting past a large creature, like a goyf, WITHOUT losing your creature.
You would usually need to trade a creature and a burn spell to do this. Now the burn spell will shrink their creature during combat, so your creature lives through the block.
So I would say this is sideboard material, only against larger creature decks.
Err, I don't see the difference between blocking Kiki and Twin.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
Kiki: Tap Kiki to make copy, attack with both. Kiki untaps to make another copy, creates loop.
Twin: Tap original to make copy, copy swings and untaps original.
The only difference is you have an extra combat celebrant with kiki-jiki since you get 2 untap triggers if you decide to attack with both. They both go infinite either way.
This card is hilarious in pure aggro and it can even Kiki/Twin combo. I'll be giving it a test run.
Wow did not even realize this. Good find.
It works with twin until they have an Elvish Archers to block with.
Not how that works:
Kiki-jiki clones this, the clone attacks, the attack trigger will untap all (including kiki-jiki), at next combat, make another clone.
Splinter twin on this, tap and make clone, clone attack, etc.
EDIT: Oh wait I see what you mean. The first striker will win if this ends up being your only attacker.
This looks pushed enough to make it into 360 lists power level wise. The +1 ability is amazing protection considering the price, even protecting you from cards like Sulfiric Vortex, Goblin Bombardment, Cursed Scroll, Chandra... cards that typically provide reach. A 4/4 for 3 isn't embarrassing either and his ult is FAR from flavour text.
Didn't notice it was permanent!
Shutting down vortex is a very real interaction.
Good card is good. Not a huge fan of walkers that lack synergy (there's so many of them) but eh, good card is card.
A true successor to Gideon Jura. Planeswalker that doesn't accrue value over time but has a strong board impact for its cost, and can act as a win con.
Unfortunately, this won't block Sulfuric Vortex, as the effect lasts until the beginning of you next turn, and vortex triggers on your upkeep
Medomai hitting with double strike just puts 2 instances of his triggered ability on the stack. Strionic Resonator is able to copy one instance. So you would have 3 instances of the ability on the stack. When they all resolve, the end result is 3 extra turns.
My current simic section
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Trygon Predator
Shardless Agent
Mystic Snake
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
i.e. once a creature dies on your side, Bontu will be able to attack or block, whereas for the other gods, you can "turn them off"
red god -> make the draw cards (the worst to do to)
blue god -> make them discard cards
green god -> kill the 4+ power creature
white god -> kill a creature so they have less than 3 other creatures
I don't know how relevant it will be to helping this card out in a cube format, but it's something to consider.
EDIT: relevant rules quoted
The big difference between garruk and other cards with the fight keyword is the timing of the damage. Garruk does damage first, which will apply the -1/-1 counters. Fight has them do damage at the same time.
I've conferred with a few other judges, and it does work the way you stated wtwlf
Edit: this was directed at steve_man, for some reason forum isnt allowing me to quote.
My first read through would be that since the ability is 2 separate actions, garruk deals damage, then the creature. So the creature would get the -3/-3 counters, then garruk would take no damage. Then the creature dies from SBA after the ability has fully resolved.
You would usually need to trade a creature and a burn spell to do this. Now the burn spell will shrink their creature during combat, so your creature lives through the block.
So I would say this is sideboard material, only against larger creature decks.
Kiki-jiki clones this, the clone attacks, the attack trigger will untap all (including kiki-jiki), at next combat, make another clone.
Splinter twin on this, tap and make clone, clone attack, etc.
EDIT: Oh wait I see what you mean. The first striker will win if this ends up being your only attacker.
Medomai hitting with double strike just puts 2 instances of his triggered ability on the stack. Strionic Resonator is able to copy one instance. So you would have 3 instances of the ability on the stack. When they all resolve, the end result is 3 extra turns.