This is very incorrect. The creature's power and toughness is continually updated, what may be confusing you is that SBE's that put a creature in the graveyard are not checked in the middle of a spell resolving, but the counters still go on and are relevant. Garruk would deal its damage, which becomes -1/-1 counters, then the creature would fight back using it's current power (including the modification from the counters), then the ability finishes resolving. This would apply to any "fight" effect that specifically called out the order of damage (like Master of the Wild Hunt), but does not apply to the Fight keyword, as that specifies that the damage is simultaneous.Quote from steve_man »Quote from wtwlf123 »How does this work with Garruk Relentless? Can he kill all ≤ 3/3 creatures with impunity?
Also, this seems great with repeatable damage sources like Grim Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll, since they can drag down and kill bigger creatures over multiple activations...
No, the change in the creature's power isn't checked again until state based effects are checked after Garruk's ability resolves. Scar Mage's "ability" is a replacement effect, so Garruk puts the -1/-1 counters (in lieu of damage) on the creature, but the creature'a P/T is still the same during resolution of the ability. After Garruk's ability resolves, SBEs are checked and the P/T will change accordingly.
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- th3shinigami
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Apr 7, 20172
wallycaine posted a message on [AKH][CUBE] Soul-Scar MagePosted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
Apr 7, 20161
bobthefunny posted a message on Deceiver of Form and Animated LandThe land would lose the ability to tap for mana, and lose trample, but still have haste. It will also still be a 3/3.Posted in: Magic Rulings Archives
Magic works in a system of layers, based on all the effects that have been applied to an object.
When the Deceiver of Form turns all your other creatures into a copy of the Vastwood Gorger, this applies in the bottom-most layer. Essentially, you treat the card as if it were printed as a Vastwood Gorger. This means that the land is no longer a land, and no longer has a basic land type (and thus can't tap for mana). It also means that the Embodiment of Fury no longer has the ability to give your lands trample (and your lands that were creatures aren't lands anymore either, so they still don't get trample).
However, the animation effect has already been applied, and will continue to apply, until the end of turn. In a higher layer, this sets the power and toughness to 3/3, and also adds the haste ability.
- Copy - your two creatures become copies of the gorger
- Control
- Text-Changing
- Type - Your ex-land is given the creature type "Elemental" - it is now an "Elemental Wurm"
- Color
- Abilities - your ex-land is given haste
- Power/Toughness
- CDAs
- P/T Setting - Your ex-land is set to being a 3/3
- P/T Changing
- Counters
- Switch P/T
EDIT: I forgot the type-changing. Note that due to the line "It is still a land," Types are added, not replaced. It will be an elemental wurm. (Thanks Rezzahan) -
Apr 5, 20161
MadMageQc posted a message on Spell mastery and flashbackNo, somewhat strangely, you can't. The following rule, "step e" of the casting process described under rule 601.2, will stop you during the process and force you to cancel the play:Posted in: Magic Rulings Archives
Swift Reckoning is on the stack and not in the graveyard at the time of that check (putting the card on the stack is step a), so the game determines that it cannot legally be cast, and you rewind.
601.2e. The game checks to see if the proposed spell can legally be cast. If the proposed spell is illegal, the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 717, "Handling Illegal Actions").
Current 601.2e is a recent addition to the rules from last year. If it weren't for that newer rule, you could have cast Reckoning here. For reference, the most widely known interaction that its introduction changed is Prophet of Kruphix with bestow cards like Chromanticore, which is similar to what happens with Swift Reckoning here. Previously, you could bestow with flash thanks to the Prophet, but 601.2e changed that, it sees an enchantment spell cast at an inappropriate time and forces the rewind.
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Mar 16, 2016
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mamaster0246 posted a message on @TrickMTG Preview - Harness the StormPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from tchntm43 »So I'm trying to figure out if there's anything potentially screwy with Regrowth effects and this card. Say, the card Regrowth itself, for simplicity's sake. I have one in my hand and one in the graveyard. I cast the first Regrowth targeting the one in the graveyard. This card says "when cast" so I'm assuming I can still cast the one from my graveyard before the first Regrowth resolves (sidenote: I'm not even sure how this can work with Sorceries unless the card in the graveyard is cast at instant speed, because otherwise the on-cast trigger would happen, but you'd be unable to play something sorcery-speed until the first sorcery resolves, and by then you'd have missed the opportunity). So then I cast the one in the graveyard targeting something else in the graveyard. Would this then result in returning the Regrowth in the graveyard, the card it targeted, and then the Regrowth in my hand being put into the graveyard? Or does casting the one in the graveyard cause it to be a different instance of itself in the graveyard (much like blinking a creature in play that's targeted with a removal spell), causing the first Regrowth to fizzle?
This doesn't work well with Regrowth effects(at least not with 1 in yard and 1 in hand).
For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to call the Regrowth in your hand H and the one in the yard, Y
You cast H from your hand targeting Y. The Harness the Storm triggers, and you put the trigger, T, on the stack, choosing Y as your target. The stack is now [H->T], both of them targeting Y. When T resolves, you have the option to cast Y from your graveyard. If you do, you choose a target, put it on the stack, then pay it's mana cost. You can't target H, because it's still on the stack. Now the stack is [H -> Y], and H no longer has a target, because Y has changed zones(going from the yard to the stack). Now Y resolves and is placed in the graveyard. The stack is now [H]. H tries to resolve, but it's target is now invalid, because while Y is still the same card, it is not the same object.
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Jan 7, 2016
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rigeld2 posted a message on Malignus + LifelinkPosted in: Magic Rulings ArchivesQuote from Rezzahan »You deal up to 3 damage to the defending player and at least 20 to the cloned Malignus, and gain 23 life at the same time, bringing you to 54 life (results of the damage). This makes your opponent's Malignus have 27 toughness and 20+ damage marked (up to 23, depending on how you assigned combat damage). When state based actions check after combat damage, your Malignus has lethal damage marked and dies (still at 20 toughness with 20 damage marked since the opponent with the highest life total is still that 40 life player), while your opponent's Malignus will be at 27 toughness with 20-23 damage marked (since you're his opponent with the highest life total now) and survives.
This is correct. The other people that replied incorrectly because Malignus only looks at opponent's life totals, so the rise to 54 life wouldn't change anything for the attacking Malignus. -
Dec 29, 20152
WizardMN posted a message on [OGW] Mothership Spoilers December 29th (including promo art)Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from DRay563 »Quote from poison counter »Can this copy counter-based creatures like endless one and Hangarback?
Yes, but not with the effect you are looking for. Eldrazi Mimic would become a 0/0 and die to state-based actions. This is because the effect that is modifying his P/T is applied prior to the counters being included in the P/T of Hangarback Walker or Endless One. It goes as so:
- Hangarback Walker ETB with two +1/+1 counters.
- Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability triggers and goes on the stack, linked to Hangarback Walker
- The triggered ability resolves, resulting in the following:
- The layer for P/T changing effects is applied. Eldrazi Mimic looks at Hangarback Walker and sees a creature with 0/0 P/T and so becomes a creature with 0/0 P/T.
- The layer for counters modifying P/T is applied. Hangarback Walker's P/T becomes 2/2 because of the two +1/+1 counters.
- State-based actions are checked. Eldrazi Mimic is moved to the GY for having a 0 toughness.
For reference from the Comp Rules:
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, “Counters.”
Alternatively, if the translation comes back to say that it refers to the base P/T of a creature, then Eldrazi Mimic would land in layer 7b.
The P/T setting will apply in layer 7b for Eldrazi Mimic no matter what. It isn't really relevant though.
There is never a time where Hangarback Walker's P/T is not 2/2 on the battlefield in your example. The layer system is there to determine what happens for Hangarback Walker and Eldrazi Mimic individually. It doesn't say to apply 7b across the board, followed by 7c and so on. It will do that for dependencies, but there are no dependencies here. You look at Hangarback Walker and apply all the layers to it. It is a 2/2. Then, you apply all the layers to Eldrazi Mimic and it is set to a 2/2 because when it sees Hangarback Walker, it is a 2/2. The layer system doesn't affect anything here. The layers have already been applied to Hangarback Walker by the time Eldrazi Mimic cares about it.
If it just uses the power and toughness of the creature, it will use the P/T as modified by effects such as Anthem Effects or counters. If it looks at the base P/T of the creature that entered, then it will be a 0/0 if using Hangarback Walker's P/T. See Gemini Engine for an example of how one creature's P/T affects another and look at the 3rd ruling.
It really depends on how accurate the translation is, but it could work the way poison counter wants it to. I don't see the card reference the base P/T of the creature it is copying, so it should work just fine with anything that enters with counters. -
Nov 9, 2015
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ahadabans posted a message on [COMM15] Commander 2015: Includes and Testing ResultsI really wanted to test Meren of Clan Nel Toth so I made a proxy over the weekend and took it for a spin in a GB rock style deck. I support graveyard more than the average cube, but the power level of this card is exceedingly high. Best play I had in my small test was Satyr Wayfinder T2 which dumped 3 dudes in the yard into Meren T3 off a fetch/deathrite Shaman activation. Didn't even matter what I was getting back honestly as that basically started a near limitless CA engine. Meren became a must kill creature immediately.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
After that, I started thinking about all the interactions with this card. Sakura-Tribe Elder (sac get it back - rinse repeat if you want as eventually it just zombifies for free). Survival of the Fittest? Discard, fetch Meren, play Meren get back whatever you just discarded. Shriekmaw loop? Evoke, back to hand EOT. And this is all standard cube stuff with zero added graveyard support. What about sneak attack? Drop in fatty, swing, back to hand EOT for more of that next round. Even something with almost no intentional synergy - like 2 mana dude, chump with it, after 2 chumps he zombifies for free every turn to continue chumping or creating sac triggers or ETB triggers or whatever.
I haven't tested anything else yet, but I already feel like Meren might be the best card in the set. The confluences will be great, good value and all that, but this card has such a ridiculously high ceiling. And it costs only 4 mana and won't be super easy to remove either (4 toughness and one of it's colors is black).
Anyway, anyone on the fence about testing her I would recommend giving her a go. Meren is going to be really really abusive. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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To restate it more clearly:
Player A: 8 lands in play. No other permanents in play. 7 cards in hand. Library has 25 cards in it.
Player B: zero permanents in play. 7 cards in hand. Library has 1 card in it. It is a Nexus of Fate.
Player B draws nexus, ends his turn, and on cleanup, discards nexus, which becomes his library again.
Player A draws a card, library goes to 24 cards. This is not part of the loop, so it is deemed meaningful change.
The scenario that i assume brought up this topic/confusion is the reddit thread linked earlier https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/al5jp3/question_about_nexus_of_fate_loop_rules/
In this scenario:
Player A: no permanents other than lich's mastery, no cards left in library or hand
Player B: zero permanents in play. 7 cards in hand. Library has 1 card in it. It is a Nexus of Fate.
Here player B cannot keep discarding nexus, because player A does nothing, and cant do anything to change the game state, so Player B MUST do something to advance the game state, which means discarding something else.
EDIT:
Now what if both players are in the same situation, where they both have 7 cards, no permanents in play, and nexus is the last card in the library. Now if both players continue to pass the turn and discard nexus, that is a loop and someone has to break it. Here, I'm not sure who has to...
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Two of the biggest draws to going into black are the removal spells and the delve creatures. If you don't plan on playing those, there isn't really a reason to play black, and you should just go izzet in that case.
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The latter issue wouldn't be a problem in casual play, but the former would still be an issue.
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Here