This would require a lot more transparency than WotC has had thus far, but it could be done.
Its a huge ban list, but part of doing it all at once was to counteract some of that "and what all are they going to ban next time?" fear.
This list is very much about going 150% into a safe format, and then hopefully being able to scale back with time.
This would need to come with a very clear statement of what their intentions are, and that this ban announcement should not be seen as the typical modern ban announcement. "Let's move on like these mistakes were never printed, and go back to using the banned list only when something gets out of hand. We think though, that without leaning on mistakes like these, any decks will be much less likely to create an unanswerable domination of the format."
There would be a very serious backlash, that I do not doubt for a second. But I think there would still be plenty of people playing. And if those players then started telling everyone how Modern was the best format ever, even those that really do not like the rationale used for the bans would give it a try, and possibly get hooked.
- Eepop
- Registered User
-
Member for 17 years, 2 months, and 15 days
Last active Thu, Jun, 26 2014 16:32:49
- 0 Followers
- 1,272 Total Posts
- 31 Thanks
-
Jan 28, 2013Eepop posted a message on Nuked from OrbitThis was written a couple months ago, pretty much right after PT:RTR. In fact, I had been writing the draft of it up for awhile before that. You can look though my post history and see where I initially proposed such a list before PT:RTR as well.Posted in: Eepop Blog
I did have access to the RTR spoiler though, so maybe I should have caught DRS. But plenty of people missed seeing how powerful he was.
If I redrafted the list today, I probably would include him.
As for Liliana, I think she was fine before DRS. She would very much be a staple of the format, but I think WotC likes planeswalkers being somewhat relevant in modern.
All that said, this plan was very much a "lets get it all out of the way plan". It looks like even if WotC is looking to get to the same endpoint, they are doing so in a slower approach: banning only a couple cards at a time. That can get to the same end point, just a bit more gradually.
I was advocating to ban like crazy, and then scale back. They appear to be banning slowly so they don't need to scale back as much. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Not that red is really hurting for answers to him.
Top 8
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpkc13/welcome#2
Top 16
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpkc13/welcome#1a
The prevalence of Twin in the top 16 is a pretty heavy set back for anyone hoping to get Ponder and/or Preordain back any time soon.
Twin had fallen a bit off the radar, which led a lot of people to lean to the opinion that it might be safe if we got back Ponder and/or Preordain. (Including myself)
But now we're back to the same Twin percentage in a top 8 as we had at PT:Philly that got P&P banned in the first place. (To be fair, there were several other P&P decks there as well, so it wasn't all Twin's fault. But Twin did win that tourney.)
I'm not calling for any bans to Twin or anything, just saying that WotC is going to be very unlikely to give them anything when they have proven that they are clearly still very much a player in the metagame without those tools.
Joe's deck more than anything appears to be a metagame call trying to beat the decks that had the most game against Pod. The heavy LD is very potent against scapeshift and tron. Not that its all that bad vs Pod, just more that it was angled to prey on the predators. He took the finals to three games, so its not like things couldn't have broken differently and ended with him beating Pod.
The Pod percentage seemed pretty steady on all accounts.
I'm not happy with the percentage that Pod decks are commanding, but I am heartened by two points:
1) The people that are showing up to prey on Pod decks are not playing Pod decks. That is a HUGE pro over how things were under the Jund menace. When Jund was king, the best way to attack it was with a teched out Jund deck. That does NOT appear to be the case with Pod.
2) We're still having a bit of a failure of incentive to really try to prepare for the Modern tournaments. Pod was the easy choice coming in, and a lot of people took it. I'd be very interested to see what the results would be if Modern got pushed that extra mile so that Pros consider it worth their time to actually prepare for more than one day before the tournament. Hell, I'd even be down for donating to some pool to add to the prize pool for a Modern GP to try to stir up some incentive. No idea how that would work, but I would totally chip in.
Really? thats the feature match we want to show?
Whats next? a Storm/Affinnity match on the other table?
After talking so much about diversity, they could have done better than showing the same decks weve. There is a very good chance we'll see this match later on Day 2/Top 8. Can't we get some of the more quirky decks on camera?
I think its perfectly fine if land tutoring got a little hate its way too. Its kind of sad how many different flavors of duals we have available that would all be relatively equally playable if it weren't for the extreme synergy of fetches and shocks.
We've got all the tools we would need to adapt if we were given a reason to not auto-default to fetch-shock manabases.
2) The engine of the deck is a bit slow. Paying 4 or 6 mana to get the right answer for a situation can be too little too late. Especially when the answers you tend to get are a one time fix.
3) There are many diverse threats in the format. Trying to cram in answers to it all in a teachings deck can be difficult. Even when you have the first answer to what someone is doing, it you may not have a second one available...and you aren't exactly known for killing quickly so they have time to rebuild.
As lantern said, its tier 2, and probably fine for things like FNM or having fun at a PTQ. But it has very real barriers to getting better, so I wouldn't expect it to jump to tier 1 any time soon unless they ramp up how powerful they are willing to let instants be. (Maybe Sphinx's Revelation is a sign of that?)
People are more complicated than being fully described by 1 word.
A pure spike wouldn't bother with magic at all, things like Poker have a much greater benefit to winning.
No, all too often, people take the loose definitions of Spike/Johnny/Timmy, pick one, decide that it is the one they are, and then project that everything they think is what that group thinks.
In reality, everyone is a mix of those three psychographics.
And even among the players that are overwhelmingly slanted to one group, there are plenty of differences.
To some spikes, the idea of discussing card legality is ludicrous. It doesn't matter what the cardpool is, whatever it is, what they care about is finding what wins.
To other spikes, its not just about winning, its about playing better than their opponents, which means they sometimes do care about what cards are legal, as they want the cards that (they think) are skill intensive to be what is good in the format.
To yet other spikes, its about the competition and reinforcing to themselves that they are an elite player, which means they want to win against as many people as possible. As far as card legality, this means they want whatever gives them the most worthy opponents to take down.
To yet other other spikes, deckbuilding is the height of out-witting and winning against your opponents, for these people, having an obvious choice when deckbuilding cheapens the entire process. For them a card that all the other spikes like might be something they want out of the format so that there is more room to out think others and win while deckbuilding.
I think the Modern Method will work better, you think it will work worse. There is no way for either of us to prove we are right.
For my wildcard pick, I am thinking something with Gifts/Rites is going to do well. No idea what shell it will be in, UW Tron / URW SplinterTwin / URW Midrange / UWR Wafo control / UW control / 4 color gifts / something else entirely.
I think Wizards does not want a format where everyone is forced to play either blue or black.
Its perfectly reasonable for that not to be a concern for you, but it is a concern for WotC.
Lets forget about prior, lets just look at all the green 2 drops available. Tarmogoyf is clearly the best. I've broken down everything else into two groups.
The first are what I consider even maybe Modern playable.
The second is the limited fodder or things that would need something very specific in a deck and such a deck we haven't ever really seen.
I tried to be a little liberal with the first group so that we have more to talk about. Tarmogoyf wears a lot of hats, so different decks might want different options. So for instance, there are some things here that some Tarmogoyf decks would not even think of playing...but thats sort of the point. If the decks that were using tarmogoyf first as a defensive tool, the replacement would be completely different than a deck using it for an aggressive tool primarily. So I included the things that were options from either side.
So those who think "the next best thing would just take over Tarmogoyf's spot in all the decks", which of this is the next best? Which of these would take over everything?
- Aquastrand Spider
- Ashcoat Bear
- Blight Mamba
- Boneyard Wurm
- Boreal Centaur
- Bosk Banneret
- Bramblesnap
- Brushstrider
- Bukoda Gardener
- Bull Aurochs
- Canopy Spider
- Carapace Forger
- Cylian Elf
- Cylian Sunsinger
- Darkthicket Wolf
- Dawntreader Elk
- Deadly Recluse
- Death-Hood Cobra
- Deranged Outcast
- Disciple of the Old Ways
- Dripping-Tongue Zubera
- Drudge Beetle
- Druid of the Anima
- Elvish Warrior
- Faiadiyah Seer
- Fronteir Guide
- Gaea's Herald
- Gatcreeper Vine
- Gatherer of Graces
- Gustav Shepherd
- Gemhide Sliver
- Gnarlid Pack
- Golgari Guildmage
- Grappler Spider
- Greenside Watcher
- Grizzly Bears
- Groundling Pouncer
- Gruul Guildmage
- Hamlet Captain
- Harabaz Druid
- Humble Budoka
- Joiner Adept
- Juvenile Gloomwidow
- Kazandu Tuskcaller
- Kithkin Daggerdare
- Kraul Warrior
- Leaf Glider
- Lifesmith
- Loam Dweller
- Matsu-Tribe Sniper
- Medicine Runner
- Might Weaver
- Mire Boa
- Nacatl Savage
- Nightshade Pedller
- Nissa's Chosen
- Oran-Rief Survivalist
- Orochi Ranger
- Orochi Sustainer
- Pendlehaven Elder
- Petalmane Baku
- Primordial Hydra (really a minimum of a 3 drop anyway)
- Riftsweeper
- River Boa
- Runeclaw Bear
- Rushwood Dryad
- Safehold Elite
- Scorned Villager
- Selesnya Guildmage
- Shletering Ancient
- Shinen of Life's Roar
- Shorecrasher Mimic
- Silhana Ledgewalker
- Simic Guildmage
- Slith Predator
- Soilshaper
- Somberwald Dryad
- Spellwild Ouphe
- Spinneret Sliver
- Sylvan Ranger
- Sylvok Explorer
- Tajuru Preserver
- Talara's Battalion
- Tangle Asp
- Tattermunge Witch
- Tel-Jilad Chosen
- Thallid Shell-Dweller
- Thelon of Havenwood
- Thornweald Archer
- Timberland Guide
- Timberpack Wolf
- Transluminant
- Utopia Tree
- Vexing Shusher
- Vine Trellis
- Viridian Zealot
- Vitaspore Thalid
- Wandering Wolf
- Warren-Scourge Elf
- Whirlding Dervish
- Wolf-Skull Shaman
- Woodland Changeling
- Woodlurker Mimic
- Zodiac Monkey
If there is something in here that I missed thats playable, I won't be surprised. But I think it would take something very specific to want to play these, so I highly doubt there are any "takes over all the tarmogoyf slots" cards in here.Yes, there are gold cards, artifact cards, and cards in other colors that might compete for that spot.
Gold Cards - By virtue of being gold, these are going to be less ubiquitous than Tarmogoyf. Not every deck is going to want to play both colors of mana, so we'd at least have some variation in what 2 drops are being played.
Artifact Cards - I do not recall any 2 drop artifact that is clearly above all the cards above, but below tarmogoyf. If I am wrong, let me know.
Other Colors - This would be the most dangerous as decks that are splashing green for goyf could just splash this new color instead. But what creature is that? Most of the other color's powerful 2 drop creatures require set up to make happen, and that type of set up is usually not something that all the decks that are currently playing tarmogoyf could set up. If I missed some creature that falls in this group, let me know.
Its obviously not as good as Grapeshot, but it is still a storm kill that completely bypasses creature removal.
I haven't played around with storm in awhile, but from what I recall, usually when you go to cast your kill, the cost isn't a big deal. So the main difference would be that there are situations (opponent's hand is two lands and a path to exile) where you could ignite for 20 and not kill. I don't think such situations would be all that common, and its easy enough to run some gitaxian probes to know if you should pull the trigger or not.
That's not to say its a bad idea, just that it doesn't necessarily mean Empty the Warrens would be the new kill condition.
I think its a bit hard to rely too much on precedent when you talk about Modern bannings vs the history of magic. They have proven that they are not going to be bound to do things the same way in Modern as they have in other formats in the past.
They are going to do what they think makes for the best format in their estimation. If they thought a switcheroo was worth it, I don't think they would hesitate just because they hadn't done it before.
All that said, I doubt they are doing it any time soon. I think we very well might see SFM some day, but I think we have another 2-3 years before they are ready to make any kind of big moves like that.
Unbanning SFM (regardless of what you do with Batterskull) is not what you do in a format that has any hint of instability. Its what you do when a format is feeling stagnant and you want something to shake things up a bit. We're not going to be in a place for shaking things up on that sort of scale for a few years.