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  • posted a message on UW Control
    I agree that the card doesn't solve our problems, but if we are playing against a blue deck with AV, then we will be behind by not casting our own. In the attrition matchups (non-combo blue, GBx, etc) AV is pretty damn strong. Vs almost every aggro deck, its pretty damn slow, even on turn one. Depending on how the meta shakes out, we will know if its correct to run or not. For now I refuse to run such a situational card that doesn't do anything beyond give me more cards. At least Rev gives life :p
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    My point is that if you do "trade profitability" as you say, then you must cast another Myth and begin growing it again. It then becomes a glorified removal spell. I'm not arguing that it is directly bad, and acknowledge that it may have merit. I simply disagreed with the statement about it causing overextension. Having the ability in UW to grow a threat larger than most in Modern is pretty sweet. I'll stick to my reliable build for now, and if Myth shows up I'll consider it. Arguments like "this goldfish is great" doesn't encourage me to play it. How often does Myth fail to impact the board in a meaningful way? How often is it a bad top deck? These are problems I have with it, in theory.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    Quote from wpgstevo »
    Ok... well obviously I failed to communicate. I never said it was better against aggro than finks/omens/resto, merely that it offered a similar benefit as far as incentivizing over-extensions into verdicts since, like finks/omens, you don't lose cards when casting verdict with it in play and it can threaten to trade/block.

    I also made no claim with respect to comparing draw-go UW control to UW Midrange-control - I simply responded to a poster who was asserting draw-go ("purely reactive") to be not viable. I did assert that Myth Realized was the "hero draw-go UW control needed" - not as a univeral card in all UW decks.

    Kinda annoying to see so much misrepresentation of my assertions.

    No, I don't play on MTGO. Personally, GPs are too far away for me to travel to frequently - I'm not even sure I'd play any form of UW control when I get the chance. It's fine if people prefer the Midrange-Control versions - I have all the cards for it as well and play it sometimes. I like the midrange-control builds.

    All I was trying to say was that if you want to play a "purely reactive" build, we have a sleeper card waiting to be explored that fits the gameplan perfectly, and at least for myself, it has been doing the job the "purely reactive" build wants (edit) at a bare minimum of expense both in terms of mana cost and slots on the top end of your curve.


    That first bit includes something I'd like to address. Myth does not "incentivize" overextending the way Finks/Omens does. Omens is a body that they must swing into, not one that you might decide to trade with if you have mana open. Finks actively makes them want to add power to the board to combat both the life gain and the recursion. I see Myth the way I would see a mutavault or blinkmoth. It can and I'm sure does become a win con, but like many others say - why not run an actual win con?

    Versatility is a valuable commodity as most any UW mage would tell you - so perhaps there is something to Myth. However, I refuse to accept that it forces players to overextend into it. If you trade with their dude, you lose Myth and they cast dude #2. If you don't trade, they don't cast dude #2. And this is with the downside of not being able to both activate Myth and counter a spell on the same turn which means you are losing too much tempo in the early game.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    Quote from LeviatanCL »
    myth is a "win more" card, if you manage to stay alive until turn 4 and cast supreme verdict the chances are you going to win the game anyway.

    i like the card, but i dont like in the current decklist and the example above.

    When you get to Verdict, you must close the game out afterwards. I dislike Myth myself, but it's a fine answer to that problem. A lot of UW decks win via Colonnade, Resto and/or planeswalkers post Verdict. Myth is good here. It does require a little build around, but all with good cards
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    Not wrong, but Relic Of Progenitus is the go to option in place of RIP. Cage is pretty specifically targeting Company right now, and that's a little too narrow. Relic gives steady disruption, and a cantrip. You can control it affecting your own finks, snapcaster etc. I like RIP, and when its good it shuts some games down. But for broad application, Relic is the card for me.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    For those saying this deck isn't control - if Tribute to Hunger is considered a control card, particularly when it was played in Standard, then Finks is the reincarnation of that card in Modern. It blocks (trades) with a dude and gains life. It also allows for game against combo or opposing control decks (Tron, Blue Moon, UWR). The creatures used in this deck play two roles, as Birch explained. They allow you to not die while setting up for all the 4cmc+ cards you use to win the game (Verdict, Resto and planeswalkers/Colonnades). That right there is how most control decks play the game, and just because a deck fails to use "counter target spell" cards, doesn't mean it is not a control deck. It's about approach, and all the UW mages understand this if they have chosen to select this "midrange" style
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UW Control
    Results from a 40-person Modern event at my lgs. Meta was quite diverse, with a skew towards Living End and Abzan. Of note, just to confirm it's dominance, there were four Eldrazi variants registered, and 3 of them made t4 - 75% conversion. The only reason the 4th did not make it was that he showed up late and suffered a match loss. Our Modern meta is full of spikes, with a few rogue/brewers out there. I consider most Modern events here highly competitive.

    My list for reference: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11885&d=267995&f=MO

    R1 vs Naya Burn (including Nacatls)

    Game 1 I'm on the play, and I don't know what he's playing, but I am familiar with his deck choices and they usually involve Red. I see Wall/Finks/Image and am happy to keep. I open with a fetch, he goes fetch/shock/Nacatl. I play Wall, he fetch/shocks into Goblin Guide and Swiftspear, netting me a land and him first blood (wall blocking Nacatl). I cast Finks, he casts a Boros Charm and swings. I block SS with Wall and Finks trades with Nacatl, dropping to 11. Finks persists, and on my go I copy Finks with Image back to 15. He casts Lava Spike, and swings. My notes are not clear on the sequence here, but I did follow up with Gideon and then Sun Titan, burying him in value/lifegain.

    In: 2 Dispel, 2 Negate, 1 EE, 1 Glen Elendra. Out: 1 V-Clique, 1 Sun Titan, 1 Elspeth, 3 Cryptic Command.

    G2 I keep a risky hand, that in hind sight I should have mulled: 4 lands, Engineered Explosives, Restoration Angel and I think Supreme Verdict. My thought process was that EE would keep him from spamming the board with 1-drops, buying me some time to establish a board/find a Finks to play with Resto. The problem was if he had all gas in burn spells, or if I drew lands. He had gas, starting with Nacatl, which, after getting hit twice I had to EE. He followed up with a Lavamancer, which ate a Path. He had Boros Charm and Bolt to the face, dropping me to 7. I flash-blocked a Swiftspear with Resto, but he had a landfall powered Searing Blaze to finish it and drop me to 4. Wall of Omens was not good enough for me to survive another Searing Blaze and a suspended Rift Bolt.

    G3 I have a much better hand with Finks, Image and Condemn, which all ensure I survive the initial onslaught of Nacatl (turn 1 all three games!), Swiftspear, Bolt, Spike, Boros Charm, Bolt. Finks and Image (Finks) finish him off.

    Round 2 vs Bant Company (no combo, Knight of the Reliquary, Voice of Resurgence, Eternal Witness et al.)

    G1 on the draw, but he mulls to 5. He bluffs by commenting that he couldn't keep a six of 4x Mimic and 2x Endless One – he's an out of town player so I did not know what he might be playing. I keep a reasonable double Finks hand with Path, and after I cast my first one, he plays Image copying my Finks. We trade blows for a bit, and he has Intrepid Hero and a Birds, while I land Resto to reset Finks. Resto does some work, and after I remove his Intrepid Hero, he has no way to survive Colonnade beats.

    In: 2x Dispel, 1 Wrath of God, 1 Vendilion Clique. Out: 1 Condemn, 1 Wall of Omens, 1 Elspeth, 1 Journey to Nowhere

    G2 This was a more average grindy game – I wasn't sure exactly what his deck was doing since I didn't see a whole lot g1. He had a slow start even with Heirarch. I had Finks into Image, gaining me 8 life along with Resto. He cast Meddling Mage, naming Cryptic Command after I had cast a Path on his Voice of Resurgence. He followed that up with two Phantasmal Images, both copying MM. One named Blade Splicer (which I don't run) and the second named Verdict. I drew a Detention Sphere and felt pretty good about exiling 3 for 1. Ran away with the game after that, and closed with Colonnade beats over a large Scavenging Ooze and dorks + Gavony. Having Ghost Quarter was important here, as without that the Gavony Township would have beaten me.

    Round 3 vs Naya Burn (No Nacatls)

    G1 I'm on the play, and have Finks/Snap/Path, which I like. He opens with Goblin Guide, which nets me something like 3 lands in a row. He has a strong hand with Boros Charm, Helix, R Bolt, Lava Spike, which all drop me to 4 very quickly despite the 2 life off Finks. He won't kill Finks, but I have to play extremely conservatively with a Cryptic in hand to keep me alive vs Boros Charm or haste + burn spell. I let a Swiftspear hit me down to 3, but have a second Finks to come back to 4 after fetching. Finks and Snapcaster beat him down, with Colonnade delivering the final blow.

    Sideboard same as round 1.

    G2 I see the perfect possible hand vs a burn opponent: Island, Plains, Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks x2, Phantasmal Image and Dispel. Of course I need a second white source, but with Wall, being on the draw, and the potential to Image Wall, this hand is ideal. I drew a Glacial Fortress on his turn one off GG Kekeke

    He has GG to start things off, which unfortunately nets me a land, meaning my land-go first turn results in a discard. I had to choose Image for the discard. He is able to drop me to 10 with Swiftspear and Rift Bolt, but double Finks with a critical Dispel on his Atarka's Command allows me to get there. He cast an Eidolon of the Great Revel with me at 10 and him at 3, which I think may have been wrong. He just traded with a Finks, but he did take 2 from a second Swiftspear. I was able to deal lethal thanks to a Phantasmal Image copying a Goblin Guide for hasty beats vs his tapped out team.

    Round 4 vs U/R Blue Moon

    G1 on the draw, was a horribly slow affair, with each of us playing Clique and him having many counters to slow my offense. Verdict was awful in this matchup, but Finks did serious work, chipping slowly at his life total while being a poor target for his Bolts and Burst Lightnings which went to my face instead. I basically had two Finks going to town for the whole game and he had a late Blood Moon.

    In: 2x Dispel, 2x Negate, 1 Disenchant, 1 Glen Elendra. Out: 1 Elspeth, 4x Verdict, 1 Journey to Nowhere.

    G2 was a frightening affair, with an early Blood Moon getting Negated, and my Finks getting leaked. He had a lot of burn+Clique to get me down below 10 quickly. The game dragged on with each of us making land drops but little in the spell department. I naturally drew and played 3 Islands, so Cryptic was live through the second Blood Moon that landed (he had Spell Snare for my Snap-Negate). This was critical to counter his Pia + Kiran, which was the only source of burn he had after 2 consecutive Bolts dropped me to 2. I was able to land a Clique of my own, and Detention Sphere on his Blood Moon made sure that Colonnade could finish the job.

    Rounds 5 and 6 were ID's to lock T8, 2nd seed. Took time to go back to my place and make some food and relax.

    T8 decklists are available on mtgtop8 via my decklist link. I played the R/G Eldrazi list.

    G1 Was decent, with him mulling to 6. I had a strong opener with 2 Verdict and Wall/Finks, 2 fetches and 2 GQ. Finks did work, as did the second. He had t2 Reshaper into Mimic off Cavern of Souls and basics. Eye of Ugin came down along with a Smasher – this met a Verdict and my Finks kept swinging. He cast Thought Knot – I cast Cryptic Command to bounce my Wall of Omens and draw a card. He saw: 2x Supreme Verdict, Phantasmal Image, Path to Exile, Wall of Omens and land. He took a Verdict, I slammed Image copying Thought Knot, Path'd the TKS and he drew lands. 1-0

    In: 1 Elspeth, 1 Wrath of God, 1 Vendilion Clique, 2 Spreading Seas. Out: 3 Restoration Angel (a HUGE mistake – I made up this sideboard guide the night before because I hadn't had a chance to test the m/u, but I totally blanked on the fact that Cavern makes Cryptic quite bad – should have taken out Cryptics here instead. My thought process was that Resto is too “cute” for this m/u, that the slight advantages gained off Wall/Finks are not enough to combat the powerful, fast Eldrazi. I still believe that to be correct, but CC is just worse), 1 Sun Titan (also bad), 1 Snapcaster (fine).

    G2 was painful... My hand was strong enough with Seas, 2x Path and Finks, but I totally missed what the lands were – 1 Colonnade and 2 Glacial Fortress.....t1-3 tapped lands. I keep and regret immediately. He goes Stirrings into Eye of Ugin, t2 Matter Reshaper, t3 Reality Smasher. I Seas his Eye and Path the Smasher, but he has another Stirrings for Reality Smasher. And while I happily have Detention Sphere, he follows up with World Breaker, removing D-Sphere and killing me a turn later.

    G3 He has Stirrings for Smasher and a second Stirrings on t2 for Temple. I have Clique and then Seas to slow things down, but I drop to 12 on turn 4 from Reshaper/Smasher. He casts World Breaker, and I get to Verdict (Reshaper hits Obligator into play). When I Seas his Temple, he sacs it for WB, returning it to hand. I Clique on his draw step and see: WB, Obligator, Bolt, land, land. I have a D-Sphere in hand, and I really want to Sphere the Breaker. I get locked into a decision between putting WB or Obligator away, trying to decide whether getting a 2-for-1 D-Sphere on the two Obligators is better than removing a WB (and losing a land). I plan too far ahead and am blind to the fact that I die to Obligator taking Clique, swing and Bolt. I put WB on the bottom and die.

    I punted these games pretty hard, and I'll chalk it up to a complete lack of testing vs Eldrazi. I think this deck in some ways has game vs them, and it's a slightly moot point anyways. I did, however, experience that unless they are stumbling in some manner, it feels like playing from behind the whole game.

    Top 8 was satisfying, and I was happy with the build overall. Changes I think I would make to this version moving forward would be: -1 Glacial Fortress +1 Coloured Source (probably Seachrome, maybe Fountain), -1 Journey to Nowhere +1 D-Sphere, -1 Elspeth +1 Cryptic or Knight Errant. -1 Surgical Extraction +1 Relic of Progenitus.

    Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. I am going to goof around with a full draw-go with a top end of Ojutai and PW's for a bit until Eldrazi leaves and the dust begins to settle.

    Thanks for reading!
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    Which creature would you cut? And for what spell? I would most likely consider Snap as the first cut, but I seriously like the utility of flashing back whatever spell is most useful in the m/u, even if it's just Visions or Cryptic.

    I will be doing a proper report - I want to see useful discussion around this archtype. I took some cues from your discussion and lists, and while its not my go to style, I quickly saw the value of having a strong game plan and less reactive spells.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    Coming back to my one true deck after enjoying slinging bolts around for a bit with UWR, I am sleeving up my latest version of UW midrange. I have always wanted to jam counterspells in the main, but after testing this build out I am happy with how it runs. My local meta does have some combo (Ad Nauseum, Storm, Living End and sometimes Scapeshift), but I like having a strong plan in the main with reasonable pressure and stabilizing elements. There is a larger, 40 person event this Saturday that I hope to t8 at least. There's a huge variety of decks in the meta, with Eldrazi and CoCo being under-represented.

    I'm quite happy with the build, but welcome any criticism, ideas etc. Some of the choices, like Surgical, are a concession to the meta and harder to beat decks. I would like to have RIP in my side, but it's the love/hate choice - when it's there, I don't need it, and when it isn't, I do. I prefer the catchall flavour of the side, along with being able to shift into a slightly more controlling role with Walkers as win-cons and hide behind wraths and countermagic/removal. I split the Journey to Nowhere and Condemn because I value each and feel we need the "5th PtE" in Condemn vs Infect and the like, whereas Journey is a better answer to most creatures. My biggest challenge so far is deciding on sideboarding vs some decks - against Eldrazi, for example, I currently have: 3x Resto, 1 Snapcaster, 1 Sun Titan OUT, 2x Seas, 1x Wrath, 1x Elspeth and 1x Clique IN. No idea if this is correct, but I think leaning on Wraths is correct and Resto doesn't impact the board enough.

    Some cards I am/have considered and haven't decided on yet are:
    Pact of Negation or Overwhelming Denial (Thoughts on Denial?)
    Runed Halo (don't own any but am interested)
    Gut Shot (any fast deck)
    Disdainful Stroke (big mana decks)
    Mana Leak (moved away from main counterspells)
    Relic of Progenitus (I like this card, but I feel as a one of Surgical is stronger in critical m/u's

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    I've recently moved into this build from UW control since I've missed being able to end the game. I would typically play more of a UWr control build, but decided to give Geist a chance. I love the synergy with Elspeth and think it might have a place. Feedback would be appreciated as this is my first draft, and while I like the card choices and numbers I'm happy to hear your thoughts.

    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Path to Exile
    4x Serum Visions
    1x Spell Snare
    3x Remand
    4x Lightning Helix
    3x Electrolyze
    1x Detention Sphere

    3x Geist of Saint Traft
    4x Snapcaster Mage
    2x Restoration Angel

    2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
    1x Ajani Vengeant

    1x Celestial Colonnade
    4x Scalding Tarn
    3x Flooded Strand
    2x Arid Mesa
    1x Mountain
    3x Island
    1x Plains
    1x Eiganjo Castle
    2x Steam Vents
    1x Hallowed Fountain
    1x Sacred Foundry
    1x Mystic Gate
    1x Clifftop Retreat
    1x Sulfur Falls
    1x Glacial Fortress


    1x Supreme Verdict
    1x Vendillion Clique
    1x Ajani Vengeant
    1x Gideon Jura
    1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
    1x Thundermaw Hellkite
    1x Counterflux
    1x Negate
    1x Disdainful Stroke
    3x Molten Rain
    1x Shatterstorm
    2x Engineered Explosives

    I feel like Thundermaw could be main, and I feel like I might miss Staticaster and Wear/Tear in the side. Otherwise I like the aggressive pressure this deck tries to apply.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    I'm convinced that this deck is strong right now. With strong answers to the linear meta as you said, it combats all the other strategies effectively. There are a few difficult matchups, but I think we have some of the best tools; Wall-Finks-Resto vs aggressive decks, Detention Sphere vs Reality Smasher, Verdict vs any aggro deck (with the wall package forcing over extension), countermagic where needed (combo), resilient mana base (keep blood moon in mind and don't get blown out), strong sideboard cards (too many to fit them all in!).

    The deck demands practice, getting to know how small changes affect how the deck plays, how to play vs particular strategies/decks, how good Spell Snare actually is. It feels truly amazing to cast Shadow of Doubt into GQ/Path. You get very different builds doing very different things, from draw go to tap out. Tech cards like SoD, Ghostly Prison, and many others can be main deck for particular metas.

    I'm on UWR midrange right now because I've missed it, but I believe this is the deck I would take to a large event tomorrow (GP, Regionals or qualifier)
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    Quote from arof24 »
    Quote from Keezy23 »

    Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.

    I like having 2 fountains. Fetchable duel sources seems better. I don't think purge got worse either. It is there for burn, jund, abzan, and storm, which are all still decks. I can agree on dispel. Also, why do u think Elspeth is not needed? It seems like s great answer to jund/abzan which I expect a lot of. I could see cutting bribery. It was something I wanted to try out, but it does seem really good against eldrazi and Tron. As for third clique, I will probably fit that in, as it was something I was considering, but I feel my main is too creature light if I don't run two main

    How exactly is Bribery good against Eldrazi? When you lose out on the cast effect, most of them are big stupid vanilla creatures. If you take Ulamog, it's not terrible, but Bribery feels slow and bad. They can literally chump him with tokens and kill you on the back swing. Against Tron, you're in the same situation where they are capable of blocking Ulamog, and many lists are foregoing Emrakul in favor of Ulamog/Kozilek. I would rather have Crucible, Shadow of Doubt, Mindcensor etc
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    I dislike remand in this type of deck, of course your build is unique with Myth and may warrant its inclusion. I have 3 leak, 3 snare, 1 negate, and 1 dispel or spell pierce alongside 2 Cryptics I a shell that is more proactive with full playsets of finks and resto, 3 walls and 2 clique. I have not liked any of the other types of counterspells, with Condescend being the only one I would consider.

    As for Mystic Gate, one is the most I would consider, and alongside 4 GQ as the only colorless sources I think ita acceptable risk to help hit double white turn 3 and triple blue on 4
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    I also recommend Temple - card selection is awesome and attached to a dual producing land is great. I'm not at all unhappy to have it as a one of alongside colonnades, and plan on trying a second. I only use one Hallowed Fountain, because we don't need more than one. Glacial Fortress is where its at. I run one Mystic gate to help cast finks, but otherwise dislike the card because it can lead to mulligans alongside GQ.

    The shock is simply not needed - no need to take any Xtra damage ever - fetch one HF and then your fortresses come in untapped. Even playing them tapped is okay, the only sad times are if you open with colonnade and fortress. I would never run two gates and two pools, but that depends how draw-go you are.

    In the above example, I would cut one HF, one Gate, and one or both pools for Glacials
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] UW Control
    What does everyone think about the new Bx Eldrazi deck that lots of people are jumping on? Any testing results to discuss?

    I have a Modern League started, and I know there's at least one of those running around. This seems like another deck that Spreading Seas would be powerful against, so I can see an argument if the deck becomes a staple. My deck is locked in for the league, but discussion would help
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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