Sweet. That's a start. Playing around with that, I now notice that it's sorting cards in an order I didn't expect. Not sure what the criteria is.Quote from molster »the [deck] widget already works with the builder just do[deck]ID OF DECK[//deck]
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- lyonhaert
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Dec 15, 2017
lyonhaert posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!Posted in: Articles -
Dec 15, 2017
lyonhaert posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!Well, since this is fresh and the comments are being read, I figured I'd post some initial thoughts here instead of the bugs forum.Posted in: Articles
- Making the Paste Deck option more up-front might save a lot of time for users. It was literally the last thing I saw because it's a small tab on the far right. Perhaps an initial modal question posed when building a new deck that asks the user to choose between building it manually vs pasting a list.
- Integration with deck threads would be awesome, because right now they'd have to be maintained separately. It feels like two implementations of the same feature (decklist and discussion), but I don't see people totally converting their decklist threads over to just this. Some possibilities there (and I tried to think of approaching from either direction):
- Being able to put the same widget in a post as what shows on the main page.
- A widget that serves as a replacement for the [deck] tag that shows the list of cards and such without having to click to a different screen. Possibly multiple widgets (or one with settings) for showing the different sections of the deckbuilder's information such as the descriptions. Maintaining a Primer in two places would be even more of a pain than they already are.
- Integration with the existing [deck] tag such as a new button in the upper right that allows a thread owner to convert the decklist in their OP to: A. create a new deck here if they haven't done so already and associates it with the thread; B. updates the thread-owner's associated deck if one already exists for that thread. Could also be associated to just a combination of userId+threadId per deck. Unfortunately, some selective parsing would be necessary for areas like the Commander decklist forums due to the strong convention of putting the cmc before the card name rather than the actual quantity.
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Chainer can be activated whenever you want, but the toll of 3 life per activation adds up quickly. You don't spam that ability but end up using it very judiciously. You could very well end up treating him like an 8-CMC commander in regard to not casting him until you can also activate him immediately (or at least still have the BBB available to activate him up until your next turn). It's a very Mono-Black Control kind of deck for me, where most of the times I activate Chainer are in response to something or at the opponent's end step just before my turn.
And the more you get into sacrifice outlets like Attrition that have a controlling effect (or if you use any pacts), the more you might consider self-returning creatures like Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, or Nether Traitor as enablers, or reusable recursion that's cheaper than Chainer like Phyrexian Reclamation, Oversold Cemetery.
In my case I haven't had much of a problem with rattlesnaking removal creatures in my graveyard. If my friends start running more graveyard removal I will likely have to adapt to some hidden instant removal like Hero's Downfall. I have to consider that part of the reason they haven't is that I tend not to destroy everything I can, but rather to use my removal creatures when something comes at me or to dodge graveyard removal and target something belonging to whoever pointed graveyard removal my way.
I wouldn't be surprised if your meta is more aggressive about taking a little punishment to get rid of a known threat sitting in your graveyard, but you know them better.
And then you've got interactions, too. Mana Web might encourage your opponents to overextend their board state by tapping out each turn and not wanting to waste the mana — right into a board wipe. Noetic Scales is friends with discard. Oppression or Defense Grid might cause your opponents to slow down their pace if they don't want to lose cards or want to leave the extra 3 mana open (which ends up telegraphing louder than just leaving UU open). There's a lot of experimenting with your friends' psychology and how they react to different incentives/penalties.
And of course there's negotiation. And there are harmless things like Crawlspace and annoying speedbumps like Silent Arbiter.
There's other passive mill, too, such as Mesmeric Orb that will affect you, too (which is still a test card for me since I haven't used it yet). Dark Deal can sortof be thought of as mill, as well as Memory Jar (which plays well with Myr Retriever and Rings). Rings can also double-up both Chainer's activation and Altar of Dementia and you can always aim that at yourself to self-mill, even using opponents' large creatures to do the work (which are also good subjects for Disciple of Griselbrand).
Yeah, they know the combo and it paints a target on you. That's possibly good enough reason not to run Mindcrank by itself, either.
It's a more casual card, but Profane Memento could help with life in coordination with the mill (and other things since "from anywhere") if it's a creature-heavy meta. Then there's other death-trigger lifegain like Falkenrath Noble (Blood Artist #3), Deathgreeter, and Dross Harvester. You already know about Disciple of Griselbrand, but there's also Loxodon Warhammer and Whip of Erebos which make yet another good use of opponents' creatures that aren't game-enders.
Stuff like Polluted Bonds cold be handy against Azusa. Might not stop or slow her but it might give you fuel. Maybe Orbs of Warding against Oona. I figure your goal will be to slow them down enough you have a decent shot if you play well. Another boardwipe or two might not hurt, either, and buy you some time (Kagemaro, First to Suffer is a favorite), but you may also have to dip into a pact effect or two more than just Plaguecrafter. One bit of advice I remember reading regarding Chainer is that, if you want to cast him then activate, you have to think of the curve like he's 8-CMC — so wipes like Life's Finale can be considered on-curve with that approach.
Edit: Almost forgot Torpor Orb in the disruption kit.
MBC has a need for certain effects because it has weaknesses and has to hustle on multiple fronts to make up for them. Card draw (among other things) is painful, so we need life and often have to leech it. We can't rely on counterspells to protect our own bombs save for one so we rely on surgical/wholesale removals from hand and library. We don't have good land ramp so we have to lean on more vulnerable options like mana rocks and ritual lands, and we slow down the other players with various kinds of stax. You have hardly any stax, really — Mindslicer is probably the biggest but that's more of a bomb you save for protecting an attempt to win than something you loop a lot.
I'd like to visit your list of wincons, actually:Chainer needs 3 things: mana, life, and targets. Your ramp and rituals to race things out satisfies mana, almost all of your sources of life support are themselves win conditions, and milling may sometimes feel like a side act but the sooner you get that rolling the sooner you might have good targets for instant-speed support of your goals (not to mention also being a win condition itself). But you know this stuff.
From my point of view, #1 here feels like the last choice. Your list feels like it's focused on #2, #3, and #4 such that #1 probably won't come up unless there's a target of opportunity that ends things sooner because the main three aren't online yet (like, Craterhoofing a bunch of harpies, or somebody elses Gary/Koko). Personally, I love these sort of grab-bag, what-toys-have-my-opponents-brought-me wins. With a sac outlet and enough devotion for Overlord or both Phyrexian Altar and Pitiless Plunderer for Wurmcoil Engine — and enough life, of course — you can make armies of your own already, too. Your life support pieces for looping this indefinitely probably kill your opponents before a token army can, though.
However, #5 now feels like a fifth wheel to me. I think this is mostly because all of your methods for turning either of them on are themselves win conditions. Gary and Koko turn it on really easy, but at that point you should be winning with them probably. Blood Artist or Zulaport Cutthroat can whittle at opponent life to help gradually turn Bloodchief Ascension on or make Mindcrank mill, but the former seems to require more work on your part repeated over three separate turns to make sure a couple creatures die each of those turns as there doesn't seem to be anything else whittling at opponent life passively, or things passively knocking down opponent creatures to keep Blood Artist/Cutthroat buzzing, in order to get those quest counters. That's not terribly hard with a Chainer deck just as you do your thing, but it's still possibly three trips around the table. Maybe your opponents help turn it on pretty consistently. If I'm wrong about this, I'd like to hear how this usually plays out for you.
Well, at least from the handful of MBC fans. LOL
If I think I can rebuild in a way that will be better, I'd then lay the deck's cards out into their groups and figure things out. I'm pretty optimistic that most decks that end up containing some sort of lockout can still work without the lock. Sometimes a change such as using card draw for variability instead of tutors helps make a deck feel different enough. Some types of decks it's harder to find the balance, certainly.
A few weeks ago a friend requested that I put Norin back together because he wanted to play against it. It went pretty much how he remembered and wasn't fun, so we just stopped mid-game and started over with different decks. Pretty much confirmed why I'd taken it apart to begin with.
Yeah, it's a very niche card that is either going to save you when nothing else will or it will do nothing because the situation didn't come up. I've gone back and forth on it a bit, but currently don't run it since I'm trying more discard.
You could probably test just one of Junk Diver/Myr Retriever. I recently re-added Myr Retriever to mine to see if at any point I think, "I wish this had flying". If that happens I'll change it to Diver. I would keep Buried Ruins, though. It's good to have multiple ways, I think.
And if you ever add Crucible of Worlds, it makes fetches better since you already run Rings. It also gives another type of card you can pitch to Bog Witch without actually losing anything.
I wouldn't say that's always true, depending on the decks in your meta. How would you deal with a spellslinger deck like Mizzix, for example? Mindslicer and creature removal seem your best tools there, but I think you could use one more piece of graveyard removal such as Agent of Erebos or Withered Wretch.
Anyway, some other tech to consider:
But for other situations where it could be problematic I like both the "treat it as a land" and the "RFG (not just exile) and draw" options.
Role Reversal is worth a slot, I would wager.
Auras can only enchant whatever permanent type they say (creature in this case), so as soon as Phenax ceases to be a creature (he's always an enchantment), the aura will detach and go to the graveyard as state-based actions.