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  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Quote from DementedKirby »
    Quote from lyonhaert »
    Seasoned Pyromancer is not worth $27 in EDH. I'll wait until it rotates out of Standard, I guess.


    I've got some bad news for you... Seasoned Pyromancer will probably only keep creeping up in price. It's not in Standard; it's from Modern Horizons. It's a Modern card. Thanks, Modern!
    GDI. I guess I can live without for now. LOL

    Edit: Because I'd rather have a second Prismatic Vista.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Seasoned Pyromancer is not worth $27 in EDH. I'll wait until it rotates out of Standard, I guess.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Quote from Lord0fHam »
    What do you guys think of Firestorm? I've been testing it to just have some removal if needed, but I'm not sure. I was thinking of maybe switching it for Pashalik Mons. Here is my current list for reference and any unrelated suggestions are welcome as well. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-07-18-zada/?cat=&sort=cost
    Firestorm is a good card. I've run it in my Zada build before, though it was more of an instant-speed finisher if I had more creatures than anybody's life total and somebody put something on the stack that I couldn't otherwise dance around. Pashalik Mons could be useful, indeed.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    I agree it's pretty narrow and card slots are too tight for it, but I would argue the best thing Imp's Mischief can do is counter a counter.

    P.S. I don't love it when the MTGS's card preview picks a full-art version (e.g., Mana Tithe at the moment) so you can't read it. lol
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Chainer — In the Darkness of Dreams
    Alright, here's my take on Core Set 2020, and I'm going to read the cards more carefully this time:

    Cavalier of Night — Simply because of it bringing back a CMC <= 3 creature when it dies, it could have some synergy in more casual Chainer decks.

    Dread Presence — Honorable mention for being a Nightmare, but probably doesn't actually do enough from swampfall.

    Epicure of Blood — Likely functional along with the lifegainers and Blood Artist-type critters. Probably only room for it in more casual decks, as tuned decks and higher are often tight for space, and this thing doesn't do anything on its own. (Also probably has a high potential of being win-more.)

    Scheming Symmetry — This one I like and want to test. I wonder how well it will do as a politicking tool, especially when I can mill or steal their chosen card.

    Vilis, Broker of Blood — Where Razaketh is great for tutoring (so much so that I don't run him in my build because he's just Too Much™), this guy feels like the card-draw counterpart to Razaketh. I really like the high-risk and high-reward this demon offers. Going to have to test him. The idea of drawing 3 cards every time I use Chainer makes me salivate. And not just that but he comes with an ability to trigger that. B and 2 life for 2 cards, and just target his giant 8/8 body with the -1/-1? All the yes.

    Prismite — Technically another way of getting B from C (thinking of Ashnod's Altar here), but Bog Initiate and Gemstone Array are probably better at that.

    Salvager of Ruin — This one is interesting. Restrictive on timing/context, but being able to return any type of permanent could be nice.

    Lotus Field — I don't like that it enters tapped, but it doesn't require the sacrificial lands be untapped and it has hexproof, which are decent upsides over stuff like Lotus Vale. I'll probably be adding Prismatic Vista instead, but this one's not terrible.

    If you think there's anything else that should have caught me eye or you're curious what I have to say about it, let me know and I'll edit it in.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    I'm uncertain on the "more polished" part. They have been recently refining the rules in some ways, but anytime they have to clarify how things work with a ruling on each relevant card, to me that says something's not inherently clear. I don't know what the impetus behind the splice revision was.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Quote from DementedKirby »
    Quote from lyonhaert »
    Alright, I'm done reading up on that and connecting dots.

    1. Pretty sure Eli Shiffrin's (Magic Rules Manager) clarifications override anybody's opinions in that thread:
    2. I don't think peteroupc is right. Even in comment #17 of your rules thread here he says that Overload's text-changing effect isn't copied (implying that copies won't be Overloaded I guess), but also links to a thread that says they are. I think he's just hung up on the text-changing part. Shiffrin even says in that third Twitter thread that Overload is copied.

    The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.


    Okay, so I think that with the first tweet you linked to, spliced spells that are copied with Zada will copy the spell as is, including the text changed due to splice, right? Man, all this back and forth has me really confused and bummed out...
    "including the text changed due to splice" — Technically no, I think, but only because you said "text changed". We know that text-changing effects don't copy, but choices such as splicing do copy (and according to Eli Shiffrin everything should still work how we expect).

    Here's how I imagine it working a bit more step-by-step with this splices-copy-but-text-changes-don't business. This may not be 100% accurate, but it's what I'm using to make sense of this still-working-but-differently-now:

    • You cast Unnatural Speed and while casting choose to splice Desperate Ritual and Overblaze onto it. The splicing changes the text of the spell on the stack to add both spliced spells' texts. So now that spell, Unnatural Speed, splices: Desperate Ritual, Overblaze says,
      "Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Add RRR. Each time target permanent would deal damage to a permanent or player this turn, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead."
    • You target Zada with both targets in the text.
    • Zada's trigger goes on the stack, resolves, and copies the spell to all applicable creatures you control.
    • Imagine that each of those copies initially look like Unnatural Speed, splices: Desperate Ritual, Overblaze because the choices got copied, but the copied text is initially just,
      "Target creature gains haste until end of turn."
    • Then the splices of each copy, individually, kick in and change the text of the spell they're attached to (before the copying is finished) to make sure it says,
      "Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Add RRR. Each time target permanent would deal damage to a permanent or player this turn, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead."
    So basically I imagine the copied splicing choices acting look proofreaders going, "One sec, just gotta fix this before we can move on."
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Alright, I'm done reading up on that and connecting dots.

    1. Pretty sure Eli Shiffrin's (Magic Rules Manager) clarifications override anybody's opinions in that thread:
    2. I don't think peteroupc is right. Even in comment #17 of your rules thread here he says that Overload's text-changing effect isn't copied (implying that copies won't be Overloaded I guess), but also links to a thread that says they are. I think he's just hung up on the text-changing part. Shiffrin even says in that third Twitter thread that Overload is copied.

    The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Okay, then if the notes I copied from the release notes aren't correct, then where is the change?

    Edit: Found the rules thread you alluded to. I'll read up on it tomorrow.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    Quote from DementedKirby »
    Apparently with Modern Horizons rule updates splice might not work like it used to with this deck. Meaning that if you splice Desperate Ritual on Unnatural Speed the splice effect won't be applied to the copies of Unnatural Speed. Hopefully I've misinterpreted this rule and Zada can still abuse the 'splice onto arcane' mechanic. Otherwise, the once glorious jank will only exist in the past...
    I think you've misinterpreted. The only relevant thing I could find in the release notes was this, among the rulings on the cards in the set that have Splice:
    If a spell is copied, choices made while casting it are copied, so the copy will have the same abilities spliced onto it as the original.
    Combine this with the fact that you splice onto a cast spell as you cast it. When you're done casting it is when Zada's trigger will be put on the stack, so everything is already spliced when her ability finally copies the spell.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Chainer, Dementia Master (Mono Black Reanimator)
    Quote from tarotplz »
    Praetor's Grasp felt a bit underwhelming, turns out stopping only one of many combos that could win the game on the spot was often not enough.
    I guess I haven't had a problem because my friends decks aren't so combo-centric that they have multiple combos in them. Also that I'm usually stealing a bomb or removal instead.
    Quote from tarotplz »
    In my long quest to find ways to deal with Ground Seal & Co I'm considering testing Ugin, the Ineffable. Has anyone done any testing with him?

    Also, Blast Zone should probably be in this deck, don't know why I didn't add it sooner. Shocked
    I haven't even been able to get War of the Spark of Modern Horizons cards yet, sigh.

    Stuff like Ground Seal and Grafdigger's Cage is why I currently run Oblivion Stone and Unstable Obelisk. Gonti usually gets aimed at the green player in that kind of game, too, and I've had good luck grabbing artifact/enchantment removal with him. Praetor's Grasp can be handy for that, too, if I can produce any color mana (currently can't, though). And then if I don't have any of those to solve the problem, I just try to make it painful for them.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Danse Macabre
    Quote from GloriousGoose »
    36 lands is where I landed in my head, so it's nice to see others there, as well. It's not necessarily accurate or relevant for me since I run so many X spells and a commander with an activated ability that costs mana, but what's your curve at? Currently, excluding lands, I'm sitting at 3.21. Obviously Chainer is mana-intensive as well, so I think it's best to lean towards too much mana rather than not enough. I'm sure you recognize the power of a mana sink in the command zone.
    Average CMC of non-lands looks to be 3.66. The life cost tends to be the more limiting factor than mana. I have actually killed myself before because I miscalculated.

    Quote from GloriousGoose »
    As for games being few and far between, I hear you. I've played more Magic in a week than I have in months since I moved to a proper city. It's glorious.
    Very nice to hear, mate.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Danse Macabre
    Quote from GloriousGoose »
    Quote from lyonhaert »
    Nice. I'm looking forward to Scheming Symmetry, too.
    Are you (and my other mono-black friends) satisfied with the number of lands you're running? I'm currently sitting at 35 mana producing lands plus 8 rocks and I'm not sure those numbers are right. Most MBC lists from 60 card formats typically ran 25 lands due to how mana hungry they are. 25/60 is roughly 42%, which is much higher than the roughly 35% that I'm currently running. I am running a decent number of rocks, though, and if you factor them in as being equal to half of a land, that comes to roughly 39%, which is still low. However, I'm not sure I agree with that conventional wisdom with regards to mana rocks. Two cost rocks are very important in my deck, but so is hitting land drops every turn until the late game. I would guess that even though you're not running the big dumb X spells our decks are similarly mana hungry due to Chainer's ability in the mid and late game.

    For posterity, here is my current mana configuration:



    If we consider Sol Ring to be on par with a land by itself and cut the weakest mana rock (Star Compass) for a land, the percentage comes to roughly 40%. That seems closer to being correct due to Erebos drawing all the cards and enabling those precious land drops. On the other hand, more rocks means a higher chance to land Erebos on turn 3 and as we all know, consistency is important. Maybe the difference is marginal but I'm really split on which way to take.

    EDIT: Happy second birthday, thread!
    Not an easy question for me to answer, but I'll start with my current configuration of mana-related stuff:

    "Independent" means I can usually just play that and have extra mana, while "Dependent" means other things have to be going on for them to help with mana (usually synergy or a loop). YawgWin and Crucible can help make sure I hit at least one land drop each, but they're slightly dependent even though it's often easy enough to have a land or two in the graveyard — especially a fetch, and I've burned one of my few tutors before going for Crucible if I have a fetch or vice versa.

    I think about my mana a bit differently because of the use of combos like token-producers with Phyrexian Altar. Last game I played with Chainer (it's a little while between games these days), I sat on a swamp and a C land for a few turns and got lucky with Abhorrent Overlord, Deathgreeter, and Phyrexian Altar. Even though I struggled a bit at first and missed a few drops, I ended the game with 6 lands that could have only produced 3BBB, and that seemed like a normal game to me. It does make it more vulnerable to somebody exiling the Altar and/or Pitiless Plunderer and cutting me off from that ability, but I'm okay with that.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Danse Macabre
    Nice. I'm looking forward to Scheming Symmetry, too.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    I like how there's a lot of new, good cards lately so that Zada can have more variety in builds.

    But yeah, that one rocks.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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