MTG Salvation

Quote from HandsomeP »

Quote from cyberium_neo »

Anything with a colored mana symbol in its cost or in its text cannot be included.

So no Fist of Suns either, right, because of the colored mana symbols in the text?

Correct. Mana symbols in italic reminder text (such as (W/B) in extort) don't count, but that's the only exception I know of.

Quote from Helnas »

We dont really pass priority when we cast spells but just ask if anyone wants to response to it.

That's just a shortcut for passing priority all the way around if nobody wants to respond. You don't have to explicitly pass priority all the time -- nobody does that, we all use the shortcuts -- but you should be aware of how it's working "under the hood" so you can deal with tricky circumstances according to the game's rules.

Quote from Helnas »

1st thing:
Played a boardwipe, blasphemous act. When no1 countered it and every1 said ok i said in responce ill made my commander indestructable with a 1 plains instant.

You misplayed that. Once you put something on the stack (cast a spell, activate an ability, etc.) and then pass priority, then if everybody else passes priority and it gets back to you that thing will resolve. You would not have an opportunity at that point to make your commander indestructible. What you could have done is cast Blasphemous Act, retain priority and make your commander indestructible in response, then pass priority twice around the table to resolve both (assuming nobody responds to either). So there was a legal way to do the same thing.

Quote from Helnas »

2nd thing:
Other player then mr salty tried to destroy 3 non creature cards with that 9/9 green creature that gives you a 3/3 elephant. He targetted my aria of flame with 5 counters on it. Then something of another opponent, that player picked up a token and put his card in gj. Then thought for 5-10 seconds and said he didnt wanna target another target. I said in responce ill play 3 instants and it turned out to be enouf damage from aria to kill the 9/9 creature playing owner so the other player had to put his card back from gj.

Okay, so the second player with something targeted prematurely put their card in the graveyard, since the Terastodon's controller hadn't even decided about a third target yet. But the rest of that works out fine. After picking his targets he has to pass priority to get the Terastodon's trigger to resolve and the targets actually destroyed. Then when you had priority you cast those instants, each triggering Aria of Flame and you target Terastodon's controller with each trigger. Those have to resolve before Terastodon's trigger can. Once that player is dead, though, to put it simply his stuff would leave the game, including the trigger he controlled on the stack.

So they were just upset by the sudden defeat.

Quote from Lord0fHam »

I'm also thinking of adding Fire diamond and Star compass because I can't afford the really good fast mana. Those would be my only rocks besides sol ring and ruby medallion but I'm not sure if rocks are really what this deck wants.

Those rocks are fine. I run Iron Myr, Skirk Prospector, and Mox Amber currently but will be switching things up once I get some C19 cards. I might still find room again for Chrome Mox, but one could get lucky on turn 1 or 2 with Lotus Bloom or Mox Tantalite. Paradise Mantle and Springleaf Drum could also work as early ramp. The main difference between Chrome Mox and Fire Diamond is what turn you go off, which really isn't a huge deal unless your meta is fast.

Quote from Lord0fHam »

If you guys were to replace either goblin matron or recruiter with imperial recruiter, which would it be? It's more of a direct replacement for matron, but goblin recruiter tutoring on the top of the deck feels pretty bad if you don't have a cantrip.

If you're going to keep two of the three, you may want to test whether you prefer the mechanics of Goblin Matron or Goblin Recruiter - just give them both some chances to see how you feel about the way they work. Crazy Monkey, though, seems to only be running Imperial Recruiter at the moment.

The reason I was thinking about ETB, flash, and tap abilities is because you'll only be able to attack on your turn, but you could discard and possibly cast on any turn. A mix of things is probably best.

Doomed Necromancer is killer all game, really, because you discard whatever you want and only pay 2BB to put any creature from your graveyard to play, allowing you to reanimate big stuff for a discount. Hell's Caretaker has an issue though, because you can only activate it during your upkeep. Apprentice Necromancer could be good, though.

You could avoid some overlap with B Chainer's ETB stuff by using more red (which honestly, has some pretty fun ETB stuff).

On the other hand this set had 4-5 great cards for Zada.

I like how Thieving Amalgam provides for the deck's main goals without being Spikey. If I were running a Chainer deck that was as strong/fast as possible it probably wouldn't make the cut, though.

K'rrik I see as sortof a mana rock that needs support so you don't pay all your life away. But there are already some pieces like Dross Harvester and Abhorrent Overlord that allow K'rrik to combo with Chainer as long as there's a free sac outlet. With those cards Overlord makes a minimum of 9 tokens which when sacrificed is enough life to cover paying 9 life to Chainer. Even if it's Deathgreeter instead of Dross Harvester it's 8 tokens and sacrificing Overlord along with those is enough to self-sustain the loop. In these loops it's almost like he takes the place of Phyrexian Altar's mana or acts like Pitiless Plunderer would for supporting part of the cost. The main difference is that I'd be using a different sacrifice outlet like Altar of Dementia for net effect outside of the loop instead of relying on something triggering off the Overlord/harpy deaths. Even combos with Torgaar, Famine Incarnate as long as I have at least 10 life to pay 9 to bring back Torgaar I'll be set to 20 and can keep alternating between bringing another creature (down to 11) and then Torgaar again (down to 2, back up to 20). Still at least 4 cards, too (Altar of Dementia again). It could even open up other combo possibilities with Noxious Gearhulk and anything with 9 or more toughness — not that Gearhulk can't already fill that role in the absence of Deathgreeter/Dross Harvester as long as enough mana is also self-sustainable.

So yeah, I guess I see K'rrik as another engine piece for Chainer's combos. I guess I will test him, but the big question will be how dead of a card will it be outside of the combo usage?

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/commander-2019/36886-krrick-son-of-yawgmoth is missing the comma.

Commander 2019 New Cards
The more intriguing ones in bold that I'm most likely to at least test.

• Archfiend of Spite: Potential as a combat trick for Chainer to throw up as a blocker at instant speed, or in the way of a Blasphemous Act, but that isn't quite as mean as Phyrexian Obliterator.
• Bone Miser: I like this one. I don't currently have enough discard to support it, but there's potential to get some nice incidental value from it just from discarding to hand size (and Memory Jar/Mindslicer) since I don't run any hand-size effects. Could retest Thought Gorger with this.
• Curse of Fool's Wisdom: This seems to go in the pile with stuff like Subversion that supports my life total in an event-based way but never actually sees play in the list.
• Gift of Doom: I doubt I'll use this card in this deck, but I like that it can provide a non-token creature in a pinch (for triggers like Grim Haruspex). But I like more that it provides an instant-speed sacrifice outlet that does not use the stack (which is what also makes mana source sacrifice outlets like Phyrexian Altar special). In fact, morphing it to the aura to make something indestructible doesn't use the stack, either.
• K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth: I know this guy is powerful, but I can't help but feel like it's a liability in a deck where I already spend a bunch of life. Definitely getting a copy, but we'll see if it's useful for Chainer at all.
• Mire in Misery: Decent card, but Chainer would rather use Meteor Golem.
• Nightmare Unmaking: Exiling is not what we want to do.
• Thieving Amalgam: This one intrigues me and is probably the one I want to test the most, really. I get to steal opponents cards as nontoken creatures which is great for many of my triggers. I get incremental life support as I go about my usual business and whittle opponent life totals in a way I'm unlikely to turn into a table-killing loop (at least not without infinite life and mana from somewhere else or Sepulchral Primordial).
• Bloodthirsty Blade: Cute trick. It's interesting if you want to sow some chaos to make players keep their eyes elsewhere while you develop resources, but I'd probably rather steal something.
• Empowered Autogenerator: Many have called this a trap. We don't have untapping or proliferation, but a deck that likes to protract the game through control could get some mana out of it. Probably not this one.
• Idol of Oblivion: Good card, but there's more powerful card draw to choose from.
• Pendant of Prosperity: I'll test this in some sort of deck sooner or later, but this seems pretty meta-dependent on who you could actually put this on that would actually keep activating it.
• Scaretiller: Probably awesome in Phenax. I am curious how it would do with only tapping during combat. Could be handy somewhere Tangle Wire is used.
• Scroll of Fate: The potential I see in this one is with my sacrifice outlets, in part. I don't have much discard for getting creatures into the graveyard from my hand, but I have sacrifice outlets. So it could be part of the mechanisms for cheating creatures into play for cheaper via Chainer, Living Death, or Thrilling Encore. But it can also turn a card that's otherwise dead in hand into a nontoken creature on the battlefield to make it useful to other things.
• Sanctum of Eternity: Chainer does get targeted, so I'm considering this one. I probably have too many utility lands already, though.

Not sure if I'll build him separate yet, though that would be cool. I imagine he can do good work in my Marchesa deck as recursion for creatures she missed. But I'm also currently looking at creatures with flash in (B/R) (Dualcaster Mage, Garna, the Bloodflame, maybe even Shimmer Myr or Offalsnout). Also looking at tap abilities because of the haste - Doomed Necromancer, Feldon of the Third Path (maybe some pet cards like Bloodline Keeper or Walking Atlas).

As for recursion, I'm getting a copy of Thrilling Encore to try in place of Living Death (possibly in Chainer). Anarchist is a good option since there's red - I have to rely on XHD in mono-black Chainer for that loop.

I forgot a third point: That they had discussed the philosophy and things in abstract together a lot, but it turned out differently where the rubber meets the road. There's no substitute for playing and discussion at that time, in that context. So I liked at the end where he was talking about getting around and playing more to get to know Commander players in practical context. That's a very good sign.

Is Sheldon really complaining about a turn 5 Sorin which doesn't even kill a player by turn 7 and did nothing the rest of the game, which went to turn 14 with the guy targeted by Sorin still alive, and equate that to an arms race to knock the player with Sorin out of the game by turn 4?

No. Sorin wasn't the point of that. What happened at first with Sorin was just a moment he could use to illustrate the concepts of:

• Differing expectations between players who haven't had The Talk (rule 0) beforehand. Three of them had played with each other enough to be pretty much on the same page as far as what they considered 75%, whereas Gavin hadn't. 75% is as much about the plays you make as it is what cards you've build with - not to mention it's relative to your meta. That play could very well have been 75% in Gavin's meta. The point was how that play was perceived in-context.
• How certain actions in a game (like getting your life set to 10 on turn 5) can precipitate an arms race. This one was more alluded to than spelled out.

Seems pretty straightforward to me and not "mental gymnastics". He even is on Gavin's side not long after for targeting Toby.

Quote from Kangodo »

Gift of Doom is cute and although morph doesn't go to the stack, attaching the aura to Sidisi does; so it can be responded to.

Guess again

Indeed, Kangodo is correct. You have to have priority, of course, but morph doesn't use the stack and this card's attachment "As this is turned face up..." is a replacement effect.

702.36e
Any time you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control with a morph ability face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 116). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.

614.1e
Effects that read “As [this permanent] is turned face up . . . ,” are replacement effects.

Indeed, Thought Sponge could have similar-ish use like Toothy, Imaginary Friend.

Eldrazi Monument and Soul of New Phyrexia come to mind. What do your opponents typically do with Athreos's trigger?

There are many forms of backup recursion you could use, too. Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker can keep bringing the Apostles back (doesn't work with Monument above). Reanimate/Animate Dead/Necromancy are good one-shots. Phyrexian Reclamation/Corpse Dance are repeatable, but by that time you're probably spending probably more than the demons would have cost to draw and cast them normally.

Living Death and a way to get it back (such as XHD) is also a way to recover from a wipe (just be careful of what's in other people's graveyards).

Edit: Actually, I forgot white options such as Gift of Immortality, Angelic Renewal, Ghostway, and Teferi's Protection.