The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.
When I read the Angel of Sanctions at the first time, I feel the same thing that the angel is too expensive.
But when I think deeply, a 3/4 body with a CMC of 5 has already dodged most of the creature removals in Modern, except for dismember and Terminate.
It also has a big effect when entering the battlefield: a non-land removal. Embalm is an additional bonus which means you can do this non-land removal two times.
I do believe this angel has a potential in Modern. The bad news is, Control is in a bad position, and White is also in a bad position.
This angle also has to compete with Gideon Jura in most of the decks...
While it is a good card with a lot of value, it doesn't do what a lot of five drops are very good at, which is survive. Not only does it not have a good way of protecting itself, but when it dies everything it's done is undone. It also gets completely shut down by PtE
I do not like to use "dies to removal" for judging a card. Protection to itself indeed is important, but it is not the only criteria for the card ranking. Otherwise, we should see Sigarda, Host of Herons been used more frequently.
This angle indeed die to three removals: PTE (I almost forget this one...), dismember, and terminate, but it cannot be killed by Bolt, Decay, and Fatal Push. Not all the decks can run PTE/dismember/terminate. In additional, if you play control, you should figure out a way to protect this angel when it enters the battlefield.
Also, please remember the ability of Embalm. If this angel is killed, never mind, you can re-cast this angel again.
I know it isn't enough to judge a card by it dying to removal, but a common trait among almost all played five drops in modern is that they all do one or more of three things. Protect themselves, do something when they enter or leave the battlefield, or straight up wins the game. The reason you need these for a five drop is because you don't want to expend large amounts of resources on a creature that gets patched for one Mana. While the "dies to removal" argument is a lot less necessary with 3 drops and 2 drops, once you get to the heavy hitters, you don't want your creature to be shoved aside like it was nothing.
This argument reminds me of the time Izzet went hellbent on me that Eidolon of the Great Revel would NEVER ever be played in modern. Lol.
I said Eidolon was bad and I'm willing to admit I was wrong on that. But I didn't go "hellbent on you". Go ahead and dig through the spoiler thread for Eidolon, it might refresh your memory.
In fact, if you think I went "hellbent on you", you're free to report the offending post to the mods and let them take care of it. I'm sure you've had a lot of experience with this, if you know what I mean.
Report posts from like 3 years ago.... lol. Ok guy.
The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.
When I read the Angel of Sanctions at the first time, I feel the same thing that the angel is too expensive.
But when I think deeply, a 3/4 body with a CMC of 5 has already dodged most of the creature removals in Modern, except for dismember and Terminate.
It also has a big effect when entering the battlefield: a non-land removal. Embalm is an additional bonus which means you can do this non-land removal two times.
I do believe this angel has a potential in Modern. The bad news is, Control is in a bad position, and White is also in a bad position.
This angle also has to compete with Gideon Jura in most of the decks...
While it is a good card with a lot of value, it doesn't do what a lot of five drops are very good at, which is survive. Not only does it not have a good way of protecting itself, but when it dies everything it's done is undone. It also gets completely shut down by PtE
This argument reminds me of the time Izzet went hellbent on me that Eidolon of the Great Revel would NEVER ever be played in modern. Lol.
I said Eidolon was bad and I'm willing to admit I was wrong on that. But I didn't go "hellbent on you". Go ahead and dig through the spoiler thread for Eidolon, it might refresh your memory.
In fact, if you think I went "hellbent on you", you're free to report the offending post to the mods and let them take care of it. I'm sure you've had a lot of experience with this, if you know what I mean.
Report posts from like 3 years ago.... lol. Ok guy.
Censor has been great for me. It creates such a threatening presence that my opponent is afraid to cast spells on curve, which lowers their pressure considerably. It really gets into your opponent's head. It's also a relevant draw in all stages of the game because of the cycling. I've come to the conclusion that it's a very good card, and the most flexible of all the counterspells we have access to.
Edit:
And people, we don't need squabbles in the Modern Discussion thread, you're not adding anything productive by attacking eachother.
So with the new addition of Bone Picker, Delver has another efficiently costed aggressive threat to play with. I've been looking for a way to play it, and I've arrived on this four color list using some other new cards.
It takes a lot of ideas from Esper Delver and Grixis delver. Basically you can cantrip through your deck really quickly with visions and all the cycle cards. Geist of Saint Traft makes your Bone Picker free after an attack. Lingering Souls clogs up the board and triggers delver.
One of the main reasons I'm splashing red is because I don't have to run Path to Exile, which doesn't synergize with Bone Picker. I already have a playset if Serum Visions, and I'm running two Fatal Push but I might up the number.
So with the new addition of Bone Picker, Delver has another efficiently costed aggressive threat to play with. I've been looking for a way to play it, and I've arrived on this four color list using some other new cards.
It takes a lot of ideas from Esper Delver and Grixis delver. Basically you can cantrip through your deck really quickly with visions and all the cycle cards. Geist of Saint Traft makes your Bone Picker free after an attack. Lingering Souls clogs up the board and triggers delver.
Bone Picker isn't that hard to turn on nowadays. All of the tier one decks have a bunch of targets for Fatal Push or Lightning Bolt. It seems relatively easy to work with. You can also just cast it for four if you absolutely have to. It involves less randomness than delver, which could make it work.
I'm also going to try out Enigma Drake and see how it goes. It looks like it has potential, although it gets sb hated really easily.
Whoever said Gideon of the Trials is good in Azorius Titan, I wholeheartedly agree. He's great at stemming the early bleeding and he can make it almost impossible for the opponent to win later in the game.
Curator of Mysteries seems like a very good control card. It's an efficient evasive beater that also can be cycled for another card if it isn't needed.
Consuming Fervor is a very good card for a deck that wants to win quickly. Of course it already exists in blue form, but I guess this is here for decks that don't run blue. I've heard good things about its counterpart.
I don't think its impact on Modern will be significant.
From my limited experience, core sets have provided quite a few modern playable cards.
I count 15 at least from M15, and 16 from Origins.
What I think this set adds to modern isn't Staples for already powerful decks but more Fringe cards to build fun FNM decks. Some of the cards are actually full of potential.
This set intrigues me so much I might buy into a booster box.
What makes Hieroglyphic Illumination look playable to me is it is relevant in all parts of the game. In the late game you can drop it for two cards, and in the early game you can cycle it to dig through your deck. What it lacks in raw power it gains in versatility. What makes it good is it's never not useful. I think we're really underestimating the power of one U cycling.
Cascading Cataracts + Bring to Light seems fun for a FNM deck. I like it because you don't have to go crazy with a full five color manabase to get the power of BtL. I'm definitely going to try it out. Maybe in a deck with some Expedition Maps or Sylvan Scryings and probably a ton of cantrips. You can also run a land hate package MB if you feel like it.
Shadow of the Grave seem strong in some sort of cycling control shell. Basically you cycle a bunch of cards into your graveyard on your opponent's end step then cast Shadow of the Grave and now you have a full hand of cyclers and stuff. Seems fun especially since you can do it all instant speed. Chances are after you cycle a ton you'll get another one or a Snapcaster Mage and you can wash rinse repeat. Props to you if you have a Curator of Mysteries out.
Glorious End seems like a great way to ensure you combo off next turn. I'm still unsure wether it'll make it further than that.
It seems like the card you're looking for is Heartless Summoning. This makes all your expensive and cheap creature spells cost one Mana, including the Golem.
Pentad Prism wasn't in my original list, instead I had birds. I removed them because it seemed like they warped the manabase too much for a turn one play that dies to three premier removal spells. I doubt it's completely necessary, but it does let us turn three BtL.
One cool part about BtL in my list is after you've probably made some birds and got some cards turn four, you can turn five BtL and you get four choices.
With Sorin you can build your army, or attack for a huge life swing.
With Tamiyo you can draw cards or tap down their big creatures.
That's a lot of versatility for turn five.
Bring to Light also acts as a crutch if you can't find an Expertise.
I'm going to try Down // Dirty as a two of. I can't really seen to get a good read on it. I'm thinking giving more opportunities for Sram's to create huge plays gives more reason to play BtL.
Hey guys,
just found this thread, I was over on the Gifts / Brain thread previous! I watched Slippaz's videos, very nicely done! I like what you're doing However, I can't seem to find your list!? Do you have 1 written down somewhere, am I just being blind?
Also, just wanted to ask a few questions. The "original" list that I found on MTGGoldfish ran Gifts Ungiven. (I'm sure there is but) is there are reason why you've moved away from that? This looks like a standard esper control deck with a bit of spice, whereas the gifts deck looks like a hybrid between 4C gifts and esper control. Can anyone share the merits and flaws of each list with me?
Finally - on a budget, is there any way to make this a little more affordable? Having watched the videos, celestial colonnade seems key in this build, whereas the other runs shambling vent. If I can't make the step up, am I just better as a gifts deck??
Gifts doesn't really support the Fuse combo in any way except being able to tutor unreliably and making the spirits big with Norn. I feel like trying to run the two decks in one will just make both halfs less consistent. If you can find a way to bring back the combo pieces from the graveyard maybe it will work. I'm think gifts is perfect for a Down // Dirty list. I'm in no way an expert on either decks though, so feel free to try it out and let us know how it goes.
I don't run colonnades for the same reason, can't afford them. I got lucky and traded for a Creeping Tar Pit and I already have a couple of vents that I run. If you can't afford them you might want to run a more combo oriented build so as to not rely as heavily on the late game potential of Colonnades. While they are very powerful, they aren't necessary.
It's not very expensive anyway for a modern deck. It's Esper, so you don't have to run Zen fetches, no snaps unlike most control decks.
@VidarThor
How necessary would you say flagstones are to the Catch // Release build?
Edit: Forgot to mention that Seth from MTGgoldfish ran gifts before the Expertises and fatal push were a thing. Probably helped with consistency then because there weren't as many combo pieces.
Cheers Try to record more next league I run through just to get more information up.
A quick thought, though. I wonder if there's a world where we get some kind of benefit out of a semi-transformational sideboard...say our maindeck plays control around a fuse package of, maybe, 3x Jar, 2x Sram's, 4x Beck...and then the deck dedicates 9 sideboard slots to 2x Virtue, 2x Sorin, 4x Souls, 1x Sram's.
The maindeck wouldn't be the same control deck I play now...Think Twice, for example, would need to become Serum Visions, and we'd likely go down to 24 lands. As understanding about the strengths/weaknesses of various versions of the Espertise deck develops, it's possible we'd find some kind of percentages in representing multiple approaches post-board in one or multiple metagames.
Likely just weaker than playing one or the other, but since the transformational package has 1) a pretty significant impact on the way the deck plays 2) only takes maybe 9 slots, it's worth thinking about.
That does sound like a good idea. My only concern is that although it impacts the way the deck plays, it doesn't seem like it would change a lot of unfavorable matchups much. To do that, we'd need more early plays that can apply pressure. I guess that's where the rest of the sideboard steps in. I'm liking all the different angles this deck can take, that speaks loads about its power level.
I agree with Innpass on the GoST note, he completely alters your gameplan when you side him in and get him early. You can all of a sudden be a Beat-down deck. This is extremely important against Tron, which is running wild at the moment.
Muddle seems perfect as a one or two of. If only I could play it in my Witch list.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Bone Picker
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instants:
2 Remand
2 Censor
2 Mana Leak
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Helix
4 Thought Scour
2 Spell Snare
4 Lingering Souls
4 Serum Visions
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Island
It seems a little more streamlined, but I'm not sure playing paths are worth it when they don't trigger Bone Picker.
I know it isn't enough to judge a card by it dying to removal, but a common trait among almost all played five drops in modern is that they all do one or more of three things. Protect themselves, do something when they enter or leave the battlefield, or straight up wins the game. The reason you need these for a five drop is because you don't want to expend large amounts of resources on a creature that gets patched for one Mana. While the "dies to removal" argument is a lot less necessary with 3 drops and 2 drops, once you get to the heavy hitters, you don't want your creature to be shoved aside like it was nothing.
While it is a good card with a lot of value, it doesn't do what a lot of five drops are very good at, which is survive. Not only does it not have a good way of protecting itself, but when it dies everything it's done is undone. It also gets completely shut down by PtE
The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.
Censor has been great for me. It creates such a threatening presence that my opponent is afraid to cast spells on curve, which lowers their pressure considerably. It really gets into your opponent's head. It's also a relevant draw in all stages of the game because of the cycling. I've come to the conclusion that it's a very good card, and the most flexible of all the counterspells we have access to.
Edit:
And people, we don't need squabbles in the Modern Discussion thread, you're not adding anything productive by attacking eachother.
One of the main reasons I'm splashing red is because I don't have to run Path to Exile, which doesn't synergize with Bone Picker. I already have a playset if Serum Visions, and I'm running two Fatal Push but I might up the number.
Yeah Geist was a pretty big oversight.
I might cut Illumination, but Censor has proven to be really powerful.
Good point on the Steam Vents comment. I'll add another red source.
So with the new addition of Bone Picker, Delver has another efficiently costed aggressive threat to play with. I've been looking for a way to play it, and I've arrived on this four color list using some other new cards.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Bone Picker
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Instants:
4 Remand
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Censor
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
4 Lingering Souls
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
It takes a lot of ideas from Esper Delver and Grixis delver. Basically you can cantrip through your deck really quickly with visions and all the cycle cards.
Geist of Saint Traft makes your Bone Picker free after an attack.
Lingering Souls clogs up the board and triggers delver.
Kolaghan's Command gets back our threats.
I'm also going to try out Enigma Drake and see how it goes. It looks like it has potential, although it gets sb hated really easily.
Whoever said Gideon of the Trials is good in Azorius Titan, I wholeheartedly agree. He's great at stemming the early bleeding and he can make it almost impossible for the opponent to win later in the game.
Curator of Mysteries seems like a very good control card. It's an efficient evasive beater that also can be cycled for another card if it isn't needed.
Consuming Fervor is a very good card for a deck that wants to win quickly. Of course it already exists in blue form, but I guess this is here for decks that don't run blue. I've heard good things about its counterpart.
From my limited experience, core sets have provided quite a few modern playable cards.
I count 15 at least from M15, and 16 from Origins.
What I think this set adds to modern isn't Staples for already powerful decks but more Fringe cards to build fun FNM decks. Some of the cards are actually full of potential.
This set intrigues me so much I might buy into a booster box.
Cascading Cataracts + Bring to Light seems fun for a FNM deck. I like it because you don't have to go crazy with a full five color manabase to get the power of BtL. I'm definitely going to try it out. Maybe in a deck with some Expedition Maps or Sylvan Scryings and probably a ton of cantrips. You can also run a land hate package MB if you feel like it.
Shadow of the Grave seem strong in some sort of cycling control shell. Basically you cycle a bunch of cards into your graveyard on your opponent's end step then cast Shadow of the Grave and now you have a full hand of cyclers and stuff. Seems fun especially since you can do it all instant speed. Chances are after you cycle a ton you'll get another one or a Snapcaster Mage and you can wash rinse repeat. Props to you if you have a Curator of Mysteries out.
Glorious End seems like a great way to ensure you combo off next turn. I'm still unsure wether it'll make it further than that.
Pentad Prism wasn't in my original list, instead I had birds. I removed them because it seemed like they warped the manabase too much for a turn one play that dies to three premier removal spells. I doubt it's completely necessary, but it does let us turn three BtL.
One cool part about BtL in my list is after you've probably made some birds and got some cards turn four, you can turn five BtL and you get four choices.
With Sorin you can build your army, or attack for a huge life swing.
With Tamiyo you can draw cards or tap down their big creatures.
That's a lot of versatility for turn five.
Bring to Light also acts as a crutch if you can't find an Expertise.
I'm going to try Down // Dirty as a two of. I can't really seen to get a good read on it. I'm thinking giving more opportunities for Sram's to create huge plays gives more reason to play BtL.
Gifts doesn't really support the Fuse combo in any way except being able to tutor unreliably and making the spirits big with Norn. I feel like trying to run the two decks in one will just make both halfs less consistent. If you can find a way to bring back the combo pieces from the graveyard maybe it will work. I'm think gifts is perfect for a Down // Dirty list. I'm in no way an expert on either decks though, so feel free to try it out and let us know how it goes.
I don't run colonnades for the same reason, can't afford them. I got lucky and traded for a Creeping Tar Pit and I already have a couple of vents that I run. If you can't afford them you might want to run a more combo oriented build so as to not rely as heavily on the late game potential of Colonnades. While they are very powerful, they aren't necessary.
It's not very expensive anyway for a modern deck. It's Esper, so you don't have to run Zen fetches, no snaps unlike most control decks.
@VidarThor
How necessary would you say flagstones are to the Catch // Release build?
Edit: Forgot to mention that Seth from MTGgoldfish ran gifts before the Expertises and fatal push were a thing. Probably helped with consistency then because there weren't as many combo pieces.
That does sound like a good idea. My only concern is that although it impacts the way the deck plays, it doesn't seem like it would change a lot of unfavorable matchups much. To do that, we'd need more early plays that can apply pressure. I guess that's where the rest of the sideboard steps in. I'm liking all the different angles this deck can take, that speaks loads about its power level.
I agree with Innpass on the GoST note, he completely alters your gameplan when you side him in and get him early. You can all of a sudden be a Beat-down deck. This is extremely important against Tron, which is running wild at the moment.
Muddle seems perfect as a one or two of. If only I could play it in my Witch list.