Do we really want to run so many devoted druids? They're pretty bad on their own. I think that this combo is a good way to add another axis to the deck, but putting 4 devoted druids leaves us super vulnerable to many things.
My main concern with this deck has been that it the secondary beatdown plan was super mediocre. Some hands do literally nothing against an opposing RIP, or targeted discard. Recent iterations (for example, what ari lax and his teammates play) were better midrange decks, with archangel of thune and tracker. Adding a ton of bad mana dorks feels as bad as the saffi eriksdotter + rallier combo (and saffi is better on its own than devoted druid)
This is how I think I'll start testing this deck. I agree that ballista could be a card in the deck, but only when we want to win through an ensnaring bridge. 1 anafenza maindeck is super important IMO, for the bolster combo and its ability to grind midrange decks. Melira is cut from the maindeck for the anti synergy with druid but it's good enough to be in the sideboard. Tracker and Duskwatch are the payoffs for the infinite mana combo. Maybe 2 tracker is too much, tracker is slower than recruiter, but outside of the combo tracker grinds harder.
Please comment if you agree/disagree with my decisions
If you run an archangel and a spike feeder you have the beat down plan already there as well as infinite life. Anafenza seems less important than melira imo. Very few decks are running mb yard hate so idkwhy people are too worried with that when we have A ton of options sb to fix issues. To start testing I think you want at least 3 Druid to see if it's even good enough. I'm playing 1 wave too because it just wins. Another idea is 1 wall that allows us a draw after we stack our decks with recruiter.
Point is there are a ton of ways to do tool box decks so I think it's just preference at this point.
We can add blue for drawing cards which Noble Hierarch provides and play a one offGenesis Wave to naturally put the combo into play. If only Mistcutter Hydra has trample. If you want to stay black Oona, Queen of the Fae wins the game. Best card with carddraw would be Banefire but that would at least add 2 colors to the combo, blue for drawing cards and red for banefire.
But I think one of the best ways to build the deck was actually mentioned before:
Something like this? I feel dirty cutting Anafenza, but Vizier is by far our most reliable enabler. Can add back some basics if we desire Blood Moon protection, although having 6 G/W dorks helps the cause.
The key was to keep the main combo (Devoted + Vizier + Feeder/Duskwatch/Ballista) intact with at least 4 copies of each cog in the deck, with a backup plan of Vizier + Finks + Seer intact just in case we get Surgicaled. Because Finks is no longer essential to the main combo, I am OK with going down to 3.
Rallier does not work as well in a GW version given no Seer and fewer fetchlands to enable Revolt.
Also, I am on 30+ hours of being awake, so this is far from refined, but I thought assembling a combo skeleton would be beneficial. The manabase in particular is a trainwreck, so if anyone wants to un-wreck it, by all means.
TBH I don't really think there is a "best build" for an unknown/widespread meta. The large majority of the core is not negotiable (upwards of 50 cards in the maindeck) and with that you can choose to play Chalice main or not, Mind Stone or not, etc. The way you configure the flex slots and flesh out your 75 is largely up to preference and deciding what matchups you want to hedge against more, IMO.
Ok I am pretty much sold on switching Ugin for the second Ulamog, but against which decks are 2 Mind Stones better than the 4th Chalice and the 3rd Endbringer?
As stated the page before, my meta contains of:
- different Tron Variants
- Scapeshift
- Ad Nauseam
- UW Control
- Grixis Control
- Elves
- Merfolk
- Soul Sisters
- BGx Rock (Jund, Jund Death Shadow, Abzan, Sultai)
- Burn
- Affinity
- and there is always the chance for players from outter cities to join our fnms, so wide spread meta.
I have most of the cards to add (just 1 Ugin and 2 Mindstones). Since I am an Elves player myself I have never really played Eldrazi Tron. I just picked the deck up because I had most of the cards (played Pauper Tron and Standard Eldrazi) I wanted to build this deck so dodge all those maindeck Pyroclasms (because they always expect me to bring Elves since it's my pet-deck and I am doing good).
I am relative new to the deck and this thread so I don't know what the most recent go-to build is.
Changes I have thought of:
- 1 Ulamog
- 1 Endbringer
- 1 Chalice
+ 1 Ugin
+ 2 Mindstones
In which matchups are Mindstones and Ugins better than those card I want to cut? Which is the "best build" for an unknown/widespread meta?
Sorry for all those questions, but reading the thread there were so many different ways to build the deck (like in Elves which I already "solved", but as I said before, I am new to Eldra Tron :D)
I'm slowly becoming a fan of Smuggler's Copter as the "something" the deck is missing. A lot of times there just feels like there isn't enough card advantage or filtering and it combos well with Thraben Inspector and Blade Splicer.
I don't have more cards than a playsets of cards like Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple so when I build my Eldrazi Tron I had to takes those cards from my WB DnT deck. But since I really like the archetype and my meta is full of Tron and Blood Moon decks I just want to try building Mono W DnT with Thraben Inspector, Smugglers Copter and Bladesplicers.
Which is the current go-to build? It seems like many player switched from 4 to 2 Mindstone and some play Ugin instead of Karn. I am going to a modern event on friday and need to fine-tune my list. We have some Tron players (all variants), control players (mostyl Grixis and UW), BGx players (but only one Jund Shadow) and some aggro lists (Soul Sisters, Merfolk).
I think this can be the 4th Shaman in GB builds which would add Glissa as well then. You might even want to add Nettle Sentinels back in then and just not untap then when the board is stalled.
I've been looking into this as I've had a Leovold since C2 dropped and have been wanting to sleeve up a deck for him. Problem is my playgroup is pretty diverse when it comes to power level and I'd hate to upset some people with going overboard with wheel/box effects. What's the end game look like? I've seen a few Leo elf balls but I don't really see anyway to interact besides clogging up the board with 1/1's (maybe Door of Destinies and Coat of Arms + elf lords?). Do you run any bigguns' like Craterhoof Behemoth?
Always difficult walking the line between casual and semi-spiky
Many of you are playing Leovold, Emissary of Trest as a high disruptive and combo-oriented Commander but since I am playing Elves in every other format, I wanted to use him as my Commander of choice for an Elfball strategy.
Next card I want to add is Concordant Crossroads and maybe Sylvan Library since I own both of those cards but I am not sure which card to cut from the deck. Maybe you can help me with suggestions there and suggest other Elves I might be missing. It's very unlikely that I will add more than those 2 non-creature spells since this decklist ist not trimmed for ultra-competitive and Leovold Elfball is more a fun-to-play Commander.
Hoof and ezuri only cost the same if you cast and activate, or chord/activate during your main phase. Otherwise ezuri is much cheaper to grab and more flexible. Hoof must be cast or chorded for on your turn so he's always 8 or 11 mana. Ezuri can be chorded for eot or hit off coco requiring only 6 or 4 mana. At worst or in some requiring circumstances ezuri would be cast and activated on your turn for a max of 8 mana which is Hoof's floor. I don't think hoof's redundancy is needed nor worth the cost.
I'm not saying Hoof is a suitable replacement. I do believe though that it's the next best thing for a win con which I find myself wanting more of. I don't want to main 4 copies of Ezuri so I'm looking at Hoof as an alternated win con. Sure Ezuri is easily chordable but that means the earliest you can go off is on turn 4 (pls correct me if this can be done earlier). Hoof can be played on the third turn with archdruid help and that's mostly gg.
Well in GB you probably play 3 Ezuri and 4 Shaman of the Pack with Chord being Ezuri/Shaman number 8-11 and CoCo/Lead providing some CA to have even more access to your finisher. So I think you don't need more win cons, you already have some
Is somebody on mono-white Eldrazi and Taxes? I had the standard build of BW Eldrazi and Taxes, but I simply couldn't win enough games against my GF's Skred Red deck (my fault for building that deck for her!), often being completely screwed out of Black and/or colorless sources. I'm trying to build a Mono-White version, since I believe losing Tidehollow Sculler and Wasteland Strangler is an acceptable loss for consistency's sake.
After looking at recent tournaments (especially that vial-less deck), I've come up with this:
I still don't have a lot of experience in competitive games, so I'm wondering if there is some big flaw I might have missed.
Nice! I'm experimenting with monowhite too. This is the list i'm playing (yeah, some odd choices but it's just a starting point that i plan on refine):
I was looking for consistency. Also, i wanted to testi some cards. Yeah, i know, Cathedral of War?! Well, i wanted something to give my fliers 4 power so i could finish planeswalkers and have a better clock. Also, lets TKS attack into more creatures. So far so good. Again, this is just something i'm willing to refine, so i'm just testing out some cards.
As for the Skred matchup, i haven't played it very much. The few times i played, either i swarmed my opponent with Forge-Tender o board and won, or i just got trampled over by Stormbreath Dragon, lol.
Last time at FNM I played my EnT list against 3 Tron and 1 Skred deck which is pretty much the meta there so I switched to Mono-W to play 4 Ghost Quarter and 3 Tectonic Edge. I have added 4 Flagstones of Trokair to have some better plans if my opponent plays Bloodmoon (GQ my own land to get a Plains and a Wastes). I can add the list later, but it is pretty much stock
Round 1: Affinity
Was faster game 1 on the play (Turn 3 kill). Game 3 I had Reclamation Sage and Creeping Corossion and Abrupt Decay in Hand and drew dorks and lands. He set up for the Cranial Plating Infect kill but I just play Rec Sage. He then dumbs his hand and my Creeping Corossion makes him scoop.
In: 1 Creeping Corossion, 1 Fracturing Gust, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Reclamation Sage
Out: 4 Elvish Visionary
Round 2: Bant Goodstuff
This is a fair matchup where Elves win, so clean 2-0. He was playing mostly creatures and Gideons and Nissas in matches I saw before.
In: 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker
Out: 4 Elvish Visionary
Round 3: UB Control
Game 1 I was too fast. Game 2 his removal and turn 2 Tasigur makes things really hard. Game 3 I had more Carddraw and he just had 1 red source and no Fetchland to Fatal Push my Lord so eventually I win because his Staticcaster is not enough when I have 2 Archdruid on the battlefield.
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Kitchen Finks, 2 Lead the Stampede, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker
OUT: 4 Nettle Sentinel, 3 Chord of Calling, 4 Dwynen's Elite, 1 Heritage Druid
I am the only player with 3-0 in the room
Round 4: Skred Red
My opponents knows I am on Elves so he does not want to scoop. Game 1 he was playing 2 Bolts, 3 Skreds, 1 Anger and Koth with Ultimate. Game 2 I side in all 15 Sideboard cards. I can destroy some bridges and Engeneered Explosives and Mind Stones with my Fracturing Gust, but he then just plays Blood Moon and I have 1 Forest (my CoCo turn 3 hitted 3 Fetchlands and the second Forest) so I have Creeping Corossion, some Lords and Nissa in hand when he plays Chandra and ticks her up. I am on 34 life and have the elves to win on the board (but he has bridge with no cards in hand). Next turn he is going to ultimate Koth and win and I needed to draw one of the 2 Forest which are not at the bottom of my library. I did not and lost. Next draw would have been a Forest.
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Kitchen Finks, 2 Lead the Stampede, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker, 1 Fracturing Gust, 1 Creeping Corossion, 1 Reclamation Sage
OUT: 4 Nettle Sentinel, 3 Chord of Calling, 4 Dwynen's Elite, 4 Heritage Druid
So I lost the finals but my opponent score is too bad and I end up in 5th with 3-1. I really think the list is strong, but I think 6 Fetchlands is better (cutting 2 Blooming March). Never played Nissa, but she would have won me Skred if I had the 2nd Forest and ofcourse the UB match.
@VipOWL and @Syreal: Grats guys! You two are amazing!! Do you know if any of the other elf Players made it...
Tough for you Albern for the Esper deck. In fact you both got paired against one of elves' worst matchups.
I should probably be asleep but a fire alarm just evac'd our hotel room so I might as well address this one.
I actually think the matchup is 50:50 - I kept a one lander in game 3 that was stacked with good 3 mana spells, and the earlier games suggested it wasn't Delver so I thought I had the time to draw out of it.
@Vormi: The list I posted was the list I registered (except I went with Verdants instead of Windswepts to match the GB vibe this time around)
...2 GP's, 2 "bad" 8-1's but hopefully will try to convert this one later today. But for the mean time, looks like we've been let back into the hotel so hopefully a decent night's sleep.
Nice and thank you for the insights Can you give us a short summary of the matchups you faced?
I would cut the 2 Tireless Tracker and get 1 Murderous Redcap and 1 Cartel Aristocrat. I don't think the Tracker is pretty good in Modern, especially without ramping lands
But I think one of the best ways to build the deck was actually mentioned before:
Ok I am pretty much sold on switching Ugin for the second Ulamog, but against which decks are 2 Mind Stones better than the 4th Chalice and the 3rd Endbringer?
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wastes
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
//Creatures (21)
4 Walking Balista
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Expedition Map
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Batterskull
1 Basilis Collar
//Other Spells (5)
3 Dismember
1 All Is Dust
1 Karn Liberated
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
1 Spellskite
3 Ratched Bomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 All Is Dust
2 Relic of Progenitus
As stated the page before, my meta contains of:
- different Tron Variants
- Scapeshift
- Ad Nauseam
- UW Control
- Grixis Control
- Elves
- Merfolk
- Soul Sisters
- BGx Rock (Jund, Jund Death Shadow, Abzan, Sultai)
- Burn
- Affinity
- and there is always the chance for players from outter cities to join our fnms, so wide spread meta.
I have most of the cards to add (just 1 Ugin and 2 Mindstones). Since I am an Elves player myself I have never really played Eldrazi Tron. I just picked the deck up because I had most of the cards (played Pauper Tron and Standard Eldrazi) I wanted to build this deck so dodge all those maindeck Pyroclasms (because they always expect me to bring Elves since it's my pet-deck and I am doing good).
I am relative new to the deck and this thread so I don't know what the most recent go-to build is.
Changes I have thought of:
- 1 Ulamog
- 1 Endbringer
- 1 Chalice
+ 1 Ugin
+ 2 Mindstones
In which matchups are Mindstones and Ugins better than those card I want to cut? Which is the "best build" for an unknown/widespread meta?
Sorry for all those questions, but reading the thread there were so many different ways to build the deck (like in Elves which I already "solved", but as I said before, I am new to Eldra Tron :D)
Thank you all in advance
I don't have more cards than a playsets of cards like Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple so when I build my Eldrazi Tron I had to takes those cards from my WB DnT deck. But since I really like the archetype and my meta is full of Tron and Blood Moon decks I just want to try building Mono W DnT with Thraben Inspector, Smugglers Copter and Bladesplicers.
My list is here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/773168-leovold-emissary-of-elfball-city
Still need a cut so I can add the Concordant Crossroad, any suggestions?
While most lists are either , , or the addition of adds some new angles to the deck, most notably Leovold himself, such as Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Rashmi, Eternities Crafter and Distant Melody.
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
//CMC1 Creatures (16)
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Boreal Druid
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Heritage Druid
1 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Elvish Pioneer
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Copperhorn Scout
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Quirion Ranger
//CMC2 Creatures (12)
1 Urborg Elf
1 Frontier Guide
1 Priest of Titania
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Wellwisher
1 Wirewood Herald
1 Elvish Vanguard
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Gaea's Herald
1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
1 Dwynen's Elite
1 Wood Elves
1 Elvish Harbinger
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Elvish Champion
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Mul Daya Channelers
//CMC4 Creatures (9)
1 Wirewood Channeler
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
1 Lys Alana Huntmaster
1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
1 Sylvan Messenger
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
CMC5 Creatures (3)
1 Nath Of The Gilt-Leaf
1 Elvish Soultiller
1 Whisperwood Elemental
CMC6+ Creatures (3)
1 Terastodon
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
//Artifacts (1)
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
//Enchantments (1)
1 Elvish Guidance
//Instants (2)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Chord of Calling
//Planeswalker (2)
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Genesis Wave
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Harmonize
1 Lead the Stampede
1 Natural Order
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Distant Melody
//Lands (33)
12 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Command Tower
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mossworth Bridge
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Dryad Arbord
1 Opulent Palace
1 Thespian Stage
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Westvale Abbey
You can easily upgrade this deck to a Elfball Highlander by switching Command Tower, Urborg Elf and Frontier Guide for Progenitus, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary and Forest.
Due to budget reasons I am missing Gaea's Cradle, Tropical Island, Underground Sea and Bayou which will not be added in my list.
I will add the MM17 fetches tho when their price bottoms out.
Next card I want to add is Concordant Crossroads and maybe Sylvan Library since I own both of those cards but I am not sure which card to cut from the deck. Maybe you can help me with suggestions there and suggest other Elves I might be missing. It's very unlikely that I will add more than those 2 non-creature spells since this decklist ist not trimmed for ultra-competitive and Leovold Elfball is more a fun-to-play Commander.
Non Elves creatures such as Temur Sabertooth and Karametra's Acolyte are for the Infinite-Mana/Infinite-Blink-Elves combo with Wirewood Symbiote and other mana-producing permanents.
Well in GB you probably play 3 Ezuri and 4 Shaman of the Pack with Chord being Ezuri/Shaman number 8-11 and CoCo/Lead providing some CA to have even more access to your finisher. So I think you don't need more win cons, you already have some
Last time at FNM I played my EnT list against 3 Tron and 1 Skred deck which is pretty much the meta there so I switched to Mono-W to play 4 Ghost Quarter and 3 Tectonic Edge. I have added 4 Flagstones of Trokair to have some better plans if my opponent plays Bloodmoon (GQ my own land to get a Plains and a Wastes). I can add the list later, but it is pretty much stock
5/5 haste creatures are pretty good, so are walkers on 6 Loyality which means ultimate if you need to.
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Chord of Calling
3 Thoughtseize
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Fracturing Gust
Round 1: Affinity
Was faster game 1 on the play (Turn 3 kill). Game 3 I had Reclamation Sage and Creeping Corossion and Abrupt Decay in Hand and drew dorks and lands. He set up for the Cranial Plating Infect kill but I just play Rec Sage. He then dumbs his hand and my Creeping Corossion makes him scoop.
In: 1 Creeping Corossion, 1 Fracturing Gust, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Reclamation Sage
Out: 4 Elvish Visionary
Round 2: Bant Goodstuff
This is a fair matchup where Elves win, so clean 2-0. He was playing mostly creatures and Gideons and Nissas in matches I saw before.
In: 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker
Out: 4 Elvish Visionary
Round 3: UB Control
Game 1 I was too fast. Game 2 his removal and turn 2 Tasigur makes things really hard. Game 3 I had more Carddraw and he just had 1 red source and no Fetchland to Fatal Push my Lord so eventually I win because his Staticcaster is not enough when I have 2 Archdruid on the battlefield.
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Kitchen Finks, 2 Lead the Stampede, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker
OUT: 4 Nettle Sentinel, 3 Chord of Calling, 4 Dwynen's Elite, 1 Heritage Druid
I am the only player with 3-0 in the room
Round 4: Skred Red
My opponents knows I am on Elves so he does not want to scoop. Game 1 he was playing 2 Bolts, 3 Skreds, 1 Anger and Koth with Ultimate. Game 2 I side in all 15 Sideboard cards. I can destroy some bridges and Engeneered Explosives and Mind Stones with my Fracturing Gust, but he then just plays Blood Moon and I have 1 Forest (my CoCo turn 3 hitted 3 Fetchlands and the second Forest) so I have Creeping Corossion, some Lords and Nissa in hand when he plays Chandra and ticks her up. I am on 34 life and have the elves to win on the board (but he has bridge with no cards in hand). Next turn he is going to ultimate Koth and win and I needed to draw one of the 2 Forest which are not at the bottom of my library. I did not and lost. Next draw would have been a Forest.
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Kitchen Finks, 2 Lead the Stampede, 1 Nissa, Vital Force, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Spellskite, 1 Phyrexian Revoker, 1 Fracturing Gust, 1 Creeping Corossion, 1 Reclamation Sage
OUT: 4 Nettle Sentinel, 3 Chord of Calling, 4 Dwynen's Elite, 4 Heritage Druid
So I lost the finals but my opponent score is too bad and I end up in 5th with 3-1. I really think the list is strong, but I think 6 Fetchlands is better (cutting 2 Blooming March). Never played Nissa, but she would have won me Skred if I had the 2nd Forest and ofcourse the UB match.
Nice and thank you for the insights Can you give us a short summary of the matchups you faced?