@PurpleIntet
Moons are great. Surgical is good, I'm less hot on it w/o fuminators but seems reasonable (though IDK id bring in more than 1 vs abzan). Thoughtseize is good in a wide variety of MU's, I would recommend going up to 2 (breach titan, lantern, random combo lists). That also works much better w/surgical. Brutality is good. Truths is a little sketchy, I've always been skeptical of the life loss and run 2 AV instead, but that one comes more to personal preference. Dispel seems unwarranted without alot of control in your area. Squalls are good. Throat should be murderous cut, fatal push, or terminate. Damnation is good vs drazi/midrange, just a little surprised cause I've always found that MU favorable. Would also recommend a hurkyl's for affinity and random artifact lists. Staticaster is great, but no more than 1 unless you're swamped with x/1s. Rejection I have no experience with but off the cuff it seems solid. Also (to nobody in particular), veil lili is bad in grixis, last hope is passable in the SB. The grixis walker of choice should be ashiok.
Also, @luciferz, that MU is pretty even. Blood moon is good, removal is good, mass GY hate is good (surgical is meh unless you see last hope). If they get too aggressive with their shadows (in order to outclass tasi/angler for example), bolt-snap-bolt is a very good line of play. YP is also exceptional here as you can chump all day long (last hope and random bloodrush tramplers are annoying though). Yes, snare is meh here.
bone picker is horrible in grixis delver. Turns your removal sorcery speed, cant play it t1, and 4 mana isn't something we'll always have. The fail case on picker is so much worse than on delver, for minimal upside.
Top 8'd a local league recently with delver, and while most of the MU's are favorable (lantern, burn, drazi and such) the 2 that can cause problems are Chord/Evolution/Coco lists. Any suggestions on winning there (basically, my build cannot beat a resolved voice of resurgence, basically ever). ATM my current SB plan is +1/2 link, +1 ashiok, +1 push, -1 sleight , -1 pyro, -1/2 random card X. My current thinking is to switch the flex slots to magma sprays, and sleight to snare #2, but wondered if you all had any better ideas first (suggestions in general are also appreciated). List looks like:
@hammerOS
Lacks pyromancer's, but other than that is solid, though I might try a Pierce in place of snare#3, it's better against stuff like tron and infect, plus you get a similar power level vs bgx decks (though if those are all over your meta I'd stick to snares)
Right now I'm thinking +1 push, +1 electro if abzan/souls start showing up again, otherwise this is going to be either push #2, snare #2, or sleight of hand #1, +1 clique (which is good against almost everything, though never really great), -3 probe.
As to when YP is good, he excelled against midrange strategies (blanking lili for example) and was servicable vs aggro (stalling their attacks for even 2/3 turns should win you the game unless your hand is flat-out terrible). Due to the lack of opposing blockers he could take over vs control too but that was extremely rare as they usually had removal. Last, YP blanked 1/3 of infect's threats (elf). However, his impact will be much lessened without any more probes
YP definitely has to stay in, hes just too good. The only options i see to stay with cantrips are an extra land and 1-2 magmatic insight or sleight of hand
Also, f*** ryan and his list #pyro4life
so...........upside, all our bad matchups are going away or getting alot better. downside..............probe was really, really important. i cant think of any decent cantrips anymore, so ill probably try +1 land, -1 YP (keeping one), +1 clique, +1 brutality/push, +1 flex spell (ideally scour esque)
Yeah, if you can hit amalgams (and blood ghast depending on deck) you just win on the spot. Another thing of note is that tapping out and taking (at least) 3 damage on t4 or so is not something that you can really expect to do and still win. Truths only really shines when both players are out of cards and you top it in the very late game, but even then there is a good chance you will be at low enough life your opponent can just burn you out. 2 av has served me well in the board, I would recommend that over X # of truths any day of the week.
On a different note, should I switch the EE in my board for another skite or stratocaster given that there is alot of infect (and a uw taxes guy I'm always up against) with no boggles to be seen?
My point isn't that we can answer everything out of tron, it's that we can answer enough to kill them by t5/t6. It won't happen every time, but it happens enough to be at least a favorable MU
@riotary
Moon is quite good, but I would test your mana base to see how well you can fetch basics before throwing 2 in the board. I would bring it in against abzan if they fetch lots of non-basics g2, infect always, Jeskai if they get greedy, and the other 3 always.
Everyone is assuming in the tron MU that we aren't interacting at all with them. We can leak a t3 karn, snare a scrying (though that seems to be dropping off) Pierce exp. Map, etc. Blood moon does only slow them down a few turns, that that should be plenty to clock them. I do have to note that stubborn denial does vastly improve this, so that may be skewing my results somewhat (or alot), as I'm really not seeing the results everyone is talking about with it being horrible. Odds are denial is skewing a couple others as well (and so are the additional fatties needed).
On the subject of electrolyze, it is really only useful in the infect and abzan matches. Kommand is going to be a better card elsewhere (and likely vs infect too). If your meta is abzan infested go for it or forked bolt (which I believe to be the superior choice in general, esp vs infect, but it is a matter of preference I suppose).
@brinkoman
In my experience, MUs go more like this:
(bad-unfavorable-even-favorable-good)
On a different note, my list has 2 stubborn denial, 0 canal, and 0 collective brutality
Burn: E-F. A t2 delve guy will usually do it. Outside of that it's tough.
Drazi: F. Their most broken draws don't use cavern, plus most lists don't run 4. Our clock is also faster as they have minimal disruption and we have lots of relevant.
Infect: E. Depends how you both draw.
Jund: E. Depends on SBS, both lists want to do similar things.
Dredge: B. Lots of grave hate makes this good but tanks other MUs.
Abzan: U. Souls is pretty bad, but the rest be can beat fairly well. Stratocaster helps alot.
RG Tron: F-G. Sure, without the t1 delver/t2 fatty this is hard, but those hands are as common as t3 Tron is. With them we tend to win pretty well.
Breach: E-F. Stop breach, stop their deck.
Jeskai: E. Nahiri can cause problems if she hits, but usually we have enough burn to close the game.
Merfolk: B. MOW is a beating and we can't block at all.
Ad Nauseum: F-G. Pact or bust hast been it for me too.
CoCo: E-F. In my experience most game come down to them having 1 turn to get the missing combo (pieces) or we win.
Kiki Chord/Evo: E-U. So much of their deck is good against us, but alot is bad as well. Depends what they draw.
Taxes: F-G. They really have to nut us or get really, really aggressive. My current record is something like 15-2 or 15-3 here.
Zoo: F-G. Similar to burn except eidolon is rare and they get brickwall by tasigur instead of racing.
Shadow: F-G. You can lose easily to battle rage, but they go down easier to a pair of bolts.
Scapeshift: Even. There are only a couple spells you have to deal with, but it is very hard to do so.
As mentioned previously, delver does very well against liner strategies trying to go through/over you and less so against decks that want to go under/around you.
Depends on the exact list of burn, i suppose there are likely some that are bad MU's but in my experience burn has been at least even, likely close to 55:45/60:40 in our favor (overall i would put it at ~20-30% to win preboard, ~60-70% post). Tron is solidly in the favorable category, they dont do well against a fast clock normally, but we have burn+lots of disruption to back it up.
Moons are great. Surgical is good, I'm less hot on it w/o fuminators but seems reasonable (though IDK id bring in more than 1 vs abzan). Thoughtseize is good in a wide variety of MU's, I would recommend going up to 2 (breach titan, lantern, random combo lists). That also works much better w/surgical. Brutality is good. Truths is a little sketchy, I've always been skeptical of the life loss and run 2 AV instead, but that one comes more to personal preference. Dispel seems unwarranted without alot of control in your area. Squalls are good. Throat should be murderous cut, fatal push, or terminate. Damnation is good vs drazi/midrange, just a little surprised cause I've always found that MU favorable. Would also recommend a hurkyl's for affinity and random artifact lists. Staticaster is great, but no more than 1 unless you're swamped with x/1s. Rejection I have no experience with but off the cuff it seems solid. Also (to nobody in particular), veil lili is bad in grixis, last hope is passable in the SB. The grixis walker of choice should be ashiok.
Also, @luciferz, that MU is pretty even. Blood moon is good, removal is good, mass GY hate is good (surgical is meh unless you see last hope). If they get too aggressive with their shadows (in order to outclass tasi/angler for example), bolt-snap-bolt is a very good line of play. YP is also exceptional here as you can chump all day long (last hope and random bloodrush tramplers are annoying though). Yes, snare is meh here.
4 delver
3 snapcaster
3 tasigur
2 angler
2 pyro
1 clique
4 visions
4 scour
1 sleight of hand
4 leak
2 stubborn denial
1 snare
4 bolt
2 Kommand
3 terminate
1 push
1 murderous cut
18 land
////SB////
2 ancestral
2 thoughtseize
2 vampiric link
1 fatal push
1 blood moon
1 izzet staticaster
1 ashiok, nightmare weaver
1 hurkyl's recall
1 spellskite
1 countersquall
2 flex (brutality and dispel atm i believe).
Lacks pyromancer's, but other than that is solid, though I might try a Pierce in place of snare#3, it's better against stuff like tron and infect, plus you get a similar power level vs bgx decks (though if those are all over your meta I'd stick to snares)
As to when YP is good, he excelled against midrange strategies (blanking lili for example) and was servicable vs aggro (stalling their attacks for even 2/3 turns should win you the game unless your hand is flat-out terrible). Due to the lack of opposing blockers he could take over vs control too but that was extremely rare as they usually had removal. Last, YP blanked 1/3 of infect's threats (elf). However, his impact will be much lessened without any more probes
Also, f*** ryan and his list #pyro4life
@keegatron
4 mire
4 delta
1 grave
2 vents
1 crypt
1 blackcleave
2 darkslick
1 island
1 swamp
1 mountain
4 unknown (clique, pyro #2-3, sleight, insight, brutality, island #2, snare #2, pierce #1) push all floating in here)
2 kommand
4 bolt
3 terminate
1 murderous cut//fatal push (meta dependent)
4 visions
4 scour
4 leak
1 snare
2 denial
3 snapcaster
3 tasigur
2 angler
4 delver
1 YP
(I think thats 60)
On a different note, should I switch the EE in my board for another skite or stratocaster given that there is alot of infect (and a uw taxes guy I'm always up against) with no boggles to be seen?
Moon is quite good, but I would test your mana base to see how well you can fetch basics before throwing 2 in the board. I would bring it in against abzan if they fetch lots of non-basics g2, infect always, Jeskai if they get greedy, and the other 3 always.
On the subject of electrolyze, it is really only useful in the infect and abzan matches. Kommand is going to be a better card elsewhere (and likely vs infect too). If your meta is abzan infested go for it or forked bolt (which I believe to be the superior choice in general, esp vs infect, but it is a matter of preference I suppose).
In my experience, MUs go more like this:
(bad-unfavorable-even-favorable-good)
On a different note, my list has 2 stubborn denial, 0 canal, and 0 collective brutality
Burn: E-F. A t2 delve guy will usually do it. Outside of that it's tough.
Drazi: F. Their most broken draws don't use cavern, plus most lists don't run 4. Our clock is also faster as they have minimal disruption and we have lots of relevant.
Infect: E. Depends how you both draw.
Jund: E. Depends on SBS, both lists want to do similar things.
Dredge: B. Lots of grave hate makes this good but tanks other MUs.
Abzan: U. Souls is pretty bad, but the rest be can beat fairly well. Stratocaster helps alot.
RG Tron: F-G. Sure, without the t1 delver/t2 fatty this is hard, but those hands are as common as t3 Tron is. With them we tend to win pretty well.
Breach: E-F. Stop breach, stop their deck.
Jeskai: E. Nahiri can cause problems if she hits, but usually we have enough burn to close the game.
Merfolk: B. MOW is a beating and we can't block at all.
Ad Nauseum: F-G. Pact or bust hast been it for me too.
CoCo: E-F. In my experience most game come down to them having 1 turn to get the missing combo (pieces) or we win.
Kiki Chord/Evo: E-U. So much of their deck is good against us, but alot is bad as well. Depends what they draw.
Taxes: F-G. They really have to nut us or get really, really aggressive. My current record is something like 15-2 or 15-3 here.
Zoo: F-G. Similar to burn except eidolon is rare and they get brickwall by tasigur instead of racing.
Shadow: F-G. You can lose easily to battle rage, but they go down easier to a pair of bolts.
Scapeshift: Even. There are only a couple spells you have to deal with, but it is very hard to do so.
As mentioned previously, delver does very well against liner strategies trying to go through/over you and less so against decks that want to go under/around you.