It makes for a powerful package. Three cheap hard counters, two of which work with Isochron Scepter and one that tutors. And two counters that can't be stopped, for that board wipe or combo that REALLY needs to be stopped RIGHT NOW.
[card]
In commander your goal shouldn't be to counter the whole board since thats impossible.[/card] Rather you use them selectively to either stop another player's game-winning haymaker, or to protect your own. 4-6 good hard counters is plenty enough for that.
I'm well aware of that. Even in modern mono U tron and classic draw-go you don't aim to counter everything. In bant colors you have sweepers like Supreme Verdict, so I don't really have to counter everything. My aim is to save them to stop the degenerate instant win combos. I also have ways to get easily recuring counter combos in Mystic Snake and Capsize/Deadeye Navigator Not to mention various regrowth effects to get my counterspells back.
I wish I could have cast this spell in real life before watching your youtube video OP.
Forreal though, New Gideon is good but it's not broken or even format warping in Standard. It's just good. Besides the new duals it's one of the few good cards in BFZ. I don't know why you'd want to start complaining about it so early in to its existence.
If your video was funny and was about you destroying Siege Rhino it would have made more sense, as well as if you had actually destroyed the card you were complaining about.
It wouldn't be wrong, but on the inside I'd judge you as obnoxious, passive aggressive, a bad sport, and some one I wouldn't want to be friends with, if that was my initial impression of you, not that my judgement means anything in the grand scheme of things.
This, on the opposite side, is precisely some people don't prefer to use the term "Good Game" as their "Basic Courtesy/Sportsmanship" term for MTG.
Ultimately, "Basic Courtesy/Sportsmanship" is not a flat, inflexible list of words to be used in the game. It should be based on logic and empathy, both flexible factors depending on the game itself.
If you were playing a game with someone and he or she got mana-screwed badly and you said "Good Game" simply because it was on the flat list of "Basic Courtesy" and he/she just shakes your hand without saying much (or a Thanks), it doesn't mean he's/she's wholeheartedly accepting the term - likewise he's/she's probably judging you as a person devoid of empathy without throwing a tantrum about it. Just because people don't throw tantrums about it doesn't mean they aren't feeling the same things a person throwing a tantrum are.
Someone can be accepting that the game is randomness-based, but even randomness doesn't justify that all "games that are bad due to randomness automatically become "good" because hey, it's randomness". It's still a "bad game" to the player whether he or she shows it or not and an opponent saying "Good Game" when it isn't one isn't going to feel good.
Remember "Good Game" is not actually as ingrained in MTG culture as it is in other games due to the randomness factor (logic) PLUS people putting empathy in their "Basic Courtesy" terms to not just import the term over, even if they use it in other games where the term is ingrained in (and those games are usually much less randomness-dependent).
"Basic Courtesy" without the use of Logic & Empathy is at best a facade and at worst hypocrisy (depending on how the player takes the term on the receiving end as well).
Other competitive sports and e-games have elements of luck in them too. Competitive pokemon game boy battling (yes, it's a big thing) is one example. Sometimes crits allow you to win games you have no business winning. it's still expected to say good game afterwards.
If you only say "Good game" if a game was good for you, and you played well, and drew all the cards you wanted to draw, and get salty and butthurt when your opponent says good game after beating you when you didn't draw the cards you wanted, that just means you're a good winner, and a poor loser.
Bant colors have loads of effects like Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix that allows me to have lots of mana+mana open on every opponents upkeep, not to mention lots of regrowth effects like restock and eternal witness, and mana ramp. Remand is a good card but I don't think it's that great in EDH compared to something like Hinder.
Also, if I'm the only person at the table running counter spells, it means my sweepers and wrath of god type effects will be easy to cast whenever I want to, so if anything it will be easier to control the board.
If several opponents are trying to do naughty things before turn 5 (or whichever turn that you don't yet have 5 mana open), then your arguments don't really apply. You can't expect to only start handling threats after a certain point. EDH can be a fast format, what with all the fast mana ramp and deep pool of threats.
Lol you're right, if several players all decide to do things when I'm tapped out, I won't be able to do things in response. I also will not be able to counter every single spell that every opponent plays.
I'm planning on running 1 and 2 mana counterspells, as well as the buyback one, Last Word, Mindbreak Trap and a few more expensive cost ones.
I simply want to stop any board wipes I don't want to happen,game winning combos or monster death creatures. Of course I'm not aiming to counter everything... if I wanted to do that Erayo would be my general.
Why are you talking to me like I've never played EDH before? I've been playing the format for atleast 7 years, and yes, *gasp* sometimes against good tier one decks like Zur the Enchanter and Sharum.
Would it be wrong if I replied to a "Good game" with, "Not really, but I still enjoyed playing," if I said this with a smile and a friendly voice?
It wouldn't be wrong, but on the inside I'd judge you as obnoxious, passive aggressive, a bad sport, and some one I wouldn't want to be friends with, if that was my initial impression of you, not that my judgement means anything in the grand scheme of things.
First off, if you are the only one who is trying to control the board, you are going to have a bad time. Second, I strongly advise you to use cheap counterspells over bloated stuff with extra effects tacked on. Stuff like Last Word, Mystic Snake, Draining Whelk, Dismiss is useless, because it prevents you from actually doing anything than having mana open for one spell each turn. Also, counterspells need to be as cheap as possible, so you can always respond, if needed. I suggest playing Swan Song, Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Arcane Denial, Disrupt, Counterspell, Negate, Mana Leak, Force of Will, Misdirection (not techincally a counterspell, but has many similar uses), Divert(see Misdirection), Pact of Negation, Daze, Mana Drain (if you can afford it of course), Force Spike, Mana Tithe, Remand (since tempo is usually the most important thing anyway).
Bant colors have loads of effects like Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix that allows me to have lots of mana+mana open on every opponents upkeep, not to mention lots of regrowth effects like restock and eternal witness, and mana ramp. Remand is a good card but I don't think it's that great in EDH compared to something like Hinder.
Also, if I'm the only person at the table running counter spells, it means my sweepers and wrath of god type effects will be easy to cast whenever I want to, so if anything it will be easier to control the board.
you dont say "good game" cause the game was a good one though
That's your opinion. If you say "good game" even though it wasn't one, you're lying. I prefer to say "good game" exactly when a game/match was one, so I actually mean it.
If you're going to go by that line of thought, "good" is entirely subjective and by saying good game, there is always a way to interpret it to be true, due to the subjective nature of the word "good".
My honest opinion is 1 if even that and that counter spell would have to be force of will otherwise you are waisting you deck space for counters when you could be taxing your opponents with stax cards. Countering spells are a bit overrated in my opinion in multiplayer. Sure counters a good 1v1. But multiplayer people get angry and you normally end up being the target.
just my opinion you don't have to listen
i feel counters in bant are ok and you could run 4-5 but bant is about combo value and board state, not control leave that to the
esper players
edit
i reread the question and i play 0 counter spells my decks
My other deck is a mono red stax deck and it's pretty good but I've been playing Stax as my primary deck for years and want to try something else, simply for the sake of fun and trying something else out.
I am putting together a bant colored control deck designed for multiplayer, with lots of counterspell type effects like Last Word, Mindbreak Trap, Voidslime and the like, with the aim to prevent anything from getting too insane and cutting out instant win the game combos.
It carries through all phases so you can effectively save up mana for something big next turn ;). It's a great card.
Wait-so colorless mana never drains from your mana pool? I never knew this!
EDIT-Ok I understand what it does now. It's just the way the card was worded that confused me. I thought it would say like "colorless mana doesn't empty from your mana pool" but I guess it doesn't need to the way it's worded.
The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
Context is everything. I can imagine times when "thank you" and "hello" are intended to annoy.
You are right when you say: "not everyone thinks this way". But, I think it applies to not everyone thinking that "good game" can never be annoying.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
There's playing slowly and there's playing slowly. I occasionally take more times than I should. Maybe my slow play in game 2 caused us to be rushed in game 3. I'm not saying that taking time to consider plays is wrong, but at some point the slow play is annoying and can be unfair.
Yes I definitely hate it if it seems people are stalling so it goes to time. I've personally never played anyone who seems like they're doing this but I've seen a lot of pro matches where it seems like they are purposefully going for time.
What is universally considered the right way to act after a game of Magic? Am I expected to baby people who get emotional from losing a game of magic, and not say good game to them because it might set them off?
There is no universally accepted right action to take, it is a mistake to think one-size-fits-all will work in this case.
The trouble with "good game" is that it might not have been a good game so the message can seem insincere. If that guy who shut you down and lit you up at basketball came over to you after the game and said "hey, you played really well" would you take him seriously? "Good game" can have the same effect.
Yes I'd take it sincerely. If I knew I played my best and couldn't compete, I'd accept the fact he is levels above me. I'd also take it as a positive sign of acknowledgement that this guy who is 100 times better than me and destroyed me still had the courtesy and respect to say "good game" at the end. Why is there any reason to take "good game" negatively and insincerely? Not everyone is out to get you and passive aggressively bully you.
There is nothing insincere about good game. What makes a game "good" is entirely subjective, so you cannot use the argument "if it wasn't a good game you're full of ***** for saying GG".
Let's acknowledge that there are games that are not good, at least not good from the perspective of both sides.
You may be absolutely sincere when you say "good game". But, if I made what I consider to be a misplay that I really shouldn't have, I might not consider it a good game. Or, if someone was rude. Or, if someone was very slow. Or, if my deck was a bad choice for the day. Any number of things could make it a bad game for me. And, while I'm sitting there just having lost the game, I might be focused on those things.
I don't think I have ever taken offense from a "good game" offered by my opponent. But, I can understand why it might happen. You're not going to be able to require a positive reaction from every offer of "good game". Either live with the occasional negative reaction, or try to understand and adjust your comments for the specific opponent. Ultimately, you're not going to be able to please all the people all the time.
Good sportsmanship is being gracious in both defeat as well as victory.
Going by your line of thought, it is only appropriate to say good game when you draw all the cards you want to draw and play through the round with out making any mistakes. So essentially, in your view, it's only truly a "good game" if everything goes your way.
Not every one thinks this way. To some people, a game finishing within the time limits is enough to consider it a "good" game. To some people, simply the act of playing makes the game "good". The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?
I'm well aware of that. Even in modern mono U tron and classic draw-go you don't aim to counter everything. In bant colors you have sweepers like Supreme Verdict, so I don't really have to counter everything. My aim is to save them to stop the degenerate instant win combos. I also have ways to get easily recuring counter combos in Mystic Snake and Capsize/Deadeye Navigator Not to mention various regrowth effects to get my counterspells back.
I wish I could have cast this spell in real life before watching your youtube video OP.
Forreal though, New Gideon is good but it's not broken or even format warping in Standard. It's just good. Besides the new duals it's one of the few good cards in BFZ. I don't know why you'd want to start complaining about it so early in to its existence.
If your video was funny and was about you destroying Siege Rhino it would have made more sense, as well as if you had actually destroyed the card you were complaining about.
Other competitive sports and e-games have elements of luck in them too. Competitive pokemon game boy battling (yes, it's a big thing) is one example. Sometimes crits allow you to win games you have no business winning. it's still expected to say good game afterwards.
If you only say "Good game" if a game was good for you, and you played well, and drew all the cards you wanted to draw, and get salty and butthurt when your opponent says good game after beating you when you didn't draw the cards you wanted, that just means you're a good winner, and a poor loser.
Lol you're right, if several players all decide to do things when I'm tapped out, I won't be able to do things in response. I also will not be able to counter every single spell that every opponent plays.
I'm planning on running 1 and 2 mana counterspells, as well as the buyback one, Last Word, Mindbreak Trap and a few more expensive cost ones.
I simply want to stop any board wipes I don't want to happen,game winning combos or monster death creatures. Of course I'm not aiming to counter everything... if I wanted to do that Erayo would be my general.
Why are you talking to me like I've never played EDH before? I've been playing the format for atleast 7 years, and yes, *gasp* sometimes against good tier one decks like Zur the Enchanter and Sharum.
It wouldn't be wrong, but on the inside I'd judge you as obnoxious, passive aggressive, a bad sport, and some one I wouldn't want to be friends with, if that was my initial impression of you, not that my judgement means anything in the grand scheme of things.
Bant colors have loads of effects like Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix that allows me to have lots of mana+mana open on every opponents upkeep, not to mention lots of regrowth effects like restock and eternal witness, and mana ramp. Remand is a good card but I don't think it's that great in EDH compared to something like Hinder.
Also, if I'm the only person at the table running counter spells, it means my sweepers and wrath of god type effects will be easy to cast whenever I want to, so if anything it will be easier to control the board.
If you're going to go by that line of thought, "good" is entirely subjective and by saying good game, there is always a way to interpret it to be true, due to the subjective nature of the word "good".
My other deck is a mono red stax deck and it's pretty good but I've been playing Stax as my primary deck for years and want to try something else, simply for the sake of fun and trying something else out.
I also have a bunch of regrowth type effects, like Restock, Scrivener and Eternal Witness and yes, regrowth.
How many counterspells should an EDH control deck run?
IMO the best thing to do is kill the cutthroats on site before they get out of hand.
I played against a UW control deck online that had Stasis Snare, Silk Wrap, board wipes and Horribly Awry. I wasn't able to do much vs that.
Dark Jeskai endlessly recurring Jace and gaining life with Ojutai's Command, Kolaghan's Command, and Mantis Rider is also pretty good against me, I'd say 55/45 matchup in their favor.
Wait-so colorless mana never drains from your mana pool? I never knew this!
EDIT-Ok I understand what it does now. It's just the way the card was worded that confused me. I thought it would say like "colorless mana doesn't empty from your mana pool" but I guess it doesn't need to the way it's worded.
Yes I definitely hate it if it seems people are stalling so it goes to time. I've personally never played anyone who seems like they're doing this but I've seen a lot of pro matches where it seems like they are purposefully going for time.
Good sportsmanship is being gracious in both defeat as well as victory.
Going by your line of thought, it is only appropriate to say good game when you draw all the cards you want to draw and play through the round with out making any mistakes. So essentially, in your view, it's only truly a "good game" if everything goes your way.
Not every one thinks this way. To some people, a game finishing within the time limits is enough to consider it a "good" game. To some people, simply the act of playing makes the game "good". The term "Good Game" is not offensive in any way, any more than the term "thank you" or "hello" is offensive.
On a side note, if the round finishes on time and you manage to get 3 games, what problem do you have with your opponent playing slowly? Sometimes I play slowly when I have to make tough decisions on plays. I don't try to play slowly but sometimes I like thinking out all possibilities before making a play. What is wrong with this?