What do you guys think of the new Scrapheap Scrounger? Only good in a black splash, but it allows us to grind even harder. Not sure how relevant it really is since the best effects for legacy are exile/tuck. It can be Recruited though.
So, I have some money coming in from a bonus that I'm planning on using on MTG to update my DNT deck. I plan to get a playset of each of Prelate and Recruiter just to have in the vault regardless of the #'s played in the deck. My real question here is, with all of the humans, what is the correct number of Caverns we should have? I already run 1 and will be able to buy up to 3, but I'm not keen on paying for additional caverns at $50+ each.
I personally feel like the new Eldrazi deck is a whole different beast. Not to say it's not good, but it's not DnT. DnT was so named because it's a white weenie deck, this has very few white creatures and relies on the strength of eldrazi creatures which are big. No Port, no Vial, no flickerwisp...not DnT. This is Mono white midrange, which sounds weird to say. I think the goal of the deck is different enough to warrant a whole new archetype, but too much discussion of it in DnT threads will dilute both conversations.
Wizards knows all of this, which is why they effectively no longer support the format (hell, a few years ago there was a Legacy PRO TOUR; now it's a rare day where there's even a Legacy Grand Prix.)
Wizards just announced that they were no longer going to do Modern in Pro Tours. If they aren't willing to support Modern what makes you think they'll revision their older formats into something they suddenly support? I expect if they start supporting any new eternal format (and I use this term to mean any format that doesn't rotate out - not to be confused with your useage in this thread) it would only go back as far as Origins - since they seem to have re-envisioned their colour wheels and balancing at that point. And even that I don't expect to happen for 5 years or so.
"Support" and "Hold GP's" are two different things. They are still supporting Modern by producing Modern Masters (assuming they do) and they can support "Eternal" with Eternal masters. GP's don't matter to an FNM player, but support for a format by reprints does. Kitchen table and FNM should be their primary concern. GP grinders will play whatever format they need to to get the points. There were many pros that hated modern GP's and whether or not they stated it, the dart board style bannings of whatever was the best deck within the last few months of the year played a large part on them taking modern out of GP level. I wouldn't want to see "Eternal" be a GP level. It should be a casual FNM level format where old players can reminisce and new players can discover what they missed. I'm super competitive as a person, but I believe GPs should be restricted to Limited and Standard. Everything else is good for FNM.
I'm confused. I was saying people who are against the format are likely using an inferior argument. They say, "This new thing isn't exactly like this old thing so it must be worse." I'm for Eternal. Were you arguing against me or agreeing with me?
The issue with this seems like people are looking at it the wrong way. They take Legacy, then ban the RL. Of course that won't be as good as Legacy. I would rather take all cards ever printed, ban the RL, then go from there. For as long as we try to sell this format with the tag line "Just like legacy...Kinda" it will always be compared and found lacking. It needs to become it's own format. The biggest thing that separates legacy from modern is actually two cards not on the RL: Wasteland and FoW. This new format would likely look like modern but with a lot better answers.
Legacy DnT and Maverick will likely want at least 2x of her. turn 2 thalia into turn 3 thalia shuts down a lot. Whether this spikes the price very far or not remains to be seen but there is some playability in any format with fetches. Powering out a turn 2 new thalia with a hierarch would likely hurt a lot too and I could see CoCo decks using her for additional value in modern.
Well, but this far, money i invested in them was the same as money on my bank account, with the added benefit, that i could play with them. If my bank account was emty tomorrow, i would have a problem. if my savings disappear, i have a problem. and part of my savings is my collection. I didnt get it to make money with it, but i only payed prices for reserved list cards because it was a stable thing. if i sell them tommorow, i just convert it back into money. if i cant do that next week, i have to do it now.
That's entirely your decision, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor for reprints. MTG is the only product I can think of that the manufacturer actively tries to maintain the value. If I go buy a shirt at the store, take it home and wear it, I'm not going to expect to take it back in a few years and get my money back, plus interest. Hell, cars lose 50% of their value as soon as you drive them off the lot.
It is flawed thinking to equate cards with value. If the economy collapsed tomorrow and we all had to trade in commodities, how important do you think MTG cards would be? That is an example of an outside force devaluing your "Investment." Think of it this way, depending on where you live, due to inflation, if you had allowed your money to sit in your bank account that money would "lose value" because the American dollar is worth less. You can't really expect MTG cards to hold a better value than the legal tender of the largest economic power in the world.
I purchased my Death and Taxes deck for about $1600. Let's assume I budget for $40 worth of entertainment per month and I want to use this deck to do it. 1600/(40*12)= 3.333. So in three years, I've regained my "value" based on the prices I paid and my expected play value. That's not counting my winnings over those years. I've played the deck a few times and already won a decent amount of money which I used to purchase more cards at a cost of $0.
If you bought the cards to play then play. If you bought the cards to collect, then just enjoy them. If you bought the cards to gain value then take your losses like every other investor. It's that simple.
I love the bad guys winning. What I don't love is the scapegoat to a good story that the eldrazi seem to have become. "Oh, guys...I can't come up with a good villain that fits the trope of the plane. What should We do? Just use Eldrazi." They easily could have made a zombie planeswalker that becomes rivals with Liliana and it would have become so much more interesting than Nahiri throwing a tantrum. We all expected a Zombie walker out of Innistrad the first go around and were disappointed. If not a Lich, then at least a stitcher. Liliana uses dark magic to raise the dead. It would be interesting to see a stitcher that ignites and uses science to accomplish his goals.
In my (limited) testing, I've gone down to two. It seems to show up often enough to be useful but not so often that I get legend screwed. I might be biased since there's only one 12 post deck where I'm testing and 0 sneak and show.
"Is Blazing Shoal infect any faster than the infect deck we have now?"
I would say probably not. I think infects power comes from the fact that they have access to so many "+4/+4" cards, but with shoal combo, you have to have a VERY specific opening hand to turn 2-3 the opponent. That said, I feel it's weak because, in a world where you only have sleight of hand and serum visions, it can't be very consistent. As someone who hates Infect, I don't think the deck would be OP and would be an interesting deck to have in the format.
Didn't infect kill at turn two with Blazing Shoal, otherwise won easily at turn 3?
The second round of bannings addressed much of what happened at Pro Tour Philadelphia. Blazing Shoal was something of a hidden gem that combined with infect creatures to kill as early as turn two,
It would need Elf, shoal, Progenitus/summoners pact, and land to turn 2 kill. I feel like the decks consistency was based off Ponder/Preordain consistency. That was a much different time in magic and modern.
If we can legitimize infects current existence by saying "Dies to removal" when their spells buff toughness , I would say we could do the same for a combo that gives +X/+0. Recently I've adopted the belief that if you're unwilling to interact then you deserve to die. If infect shoal wants to go 100 miles an hour and get blown out by bolt that's their prerogative. If they win turn 4 by putting up defenses then there is no real issue. I would say that shoal, like much of the original ban list cards, didn't have time to let the meta adapt. I mean, blazing infect gets blown out by Gut Shot if they aren't protecting the combo.
Current infect can also win turn two, but we are fine with it because if I bolt their turn 1 elf they stumble. same here. However, bolting in response to the shoal targeting is a complete blowout since they don't have the redundency that current infect has. I would say since the printing of Become Immense, Shoal is outclassed.
"Is Blazing Shoal infect any faster than the infect deck we have now?"
I would say probably not. I think infects power comes from the fact that they have access to so many "+4/+4" cards, but with shoal combo, you have to have a VERY specific opening hand to turn 2-3 the opponent. That said, I feel it's weak because, in a world where you only have sleight of hand and serum visions, it can't be very consistent. As someone who hates Infect, I don't think the deck would be OP and would be an interesting deck to have in the format.
As an avid complainer I must say, I really like where the format is finally going. So long as the Jeskai decks continue to have good results and don't get completely hated out (or do but then come back a few months later because that's how it's supposed to work) then This will likely be the best modern has ever been. With less incentive to break the format, we won't even have to worry about a ban. I don't see how anyone could hate the current format. AD Nauseam won a GP. Tell me one other time in the history of modern where this could have happened. Ad Nauseam, scapeshift, Jund (2), 2 different company decks, Suicide Zoo, and Kiki-chord in the top 8 at Charlotte, that's amazing. No tron, no junk, no affinity, no infect, and not because they got banned, but because the meta shifted on its own. If it can keep doing this that would be fantastic. One could say that there is no blue control deck, and you'd be right, but it's not time for a control deck yet. They need something to target and the formats too wide open. I'd say give it some more time before we pull out the pitchforks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only played as a silver bullet against Emrakul in Legacy, right?
This is another reason I'm sad I'll never be able to get any packs due to the limited print run.
DnT plays 3 of them with Mangara of Corondor to permanently exile permanents. Also to protect Thalia. Swing with thalia equipped with jitte into something really big, get the counters, bounce thalia.
EaaHT has been really good actually. I see him as Mom #5, but it can actually close out the game by itself. I've won games where I got EaaHT equipped with SoFI and just held up mana to protect him.
Displacer is similar, but is Flickerwisp #5 that only hits creatures. It also has fantastic stats as a 3/3 for three that does stuff.
"Support" and "Hold GP's" are two different things. They are still supporting Modern by producing Modern Masters (assuming they do) and they can support "Eternal" with Eternal masters. GP's don't matter to an FNM player, but support for a format by reprints does. Kitchen table and FNM should be their primary concern. GP grinders will play whatever format they need to to get the points. There were many pros that hated modern GP's and whether or not they stated it, the dart board style bannings of whatever was the best deck within the last few months of the year played a large part on them taking modern out of GP level. I wouldn't want to see "Eternal" be a GP level. It should be a casual FNM level format where old players can reminisce and new players can discover what they missed. I'm super competitive as a person, but I believe GPs should be restricted to Limited and Standard. Everything else is good for FNM.
I'm confused. I was saying people who are against the format are likely using an inferior argument. They say, "This new thing isn't exactly like this old thing so it must be worse." I'm for Eternal. Were you arguing against me or agreeing with me?
That's entirely your decision, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor for reprints. MTG is the only product I can think of that the manufacturer actively tries to maintain the value. If I go buy a shirt at the store, take it home and wear it, I'm not going to expect to take it back in a few years and get my money back, plus interest. Hell, cars lose 50% of their value as soon as you drive them off the lot.
It is flawed thinking to equate cards with value. If the economy collapsed tomorrow and we all had to trade in commodities, how important do you think MTG cards would be? That is an example of an outside force devaluing your "Investment." Think of it this way, depending on where you live, due to inflation, if you had allowed your money to sit in your bank account that money would "lose value" because the American dollar is worth less. You can't really expect MTG cards to hold a better value than the legal tender of the largest economic power in the world.
I purchased my Death and Taxes deck for about $1600. Let's assume I budget for $40 worth of entertainment per month and I want to use this deck to do it. 1600/(40*12)= 3.333. So in three years, I've regained my "value" based on the prices I paid and my expected play value. That's not counting my winnings over those years. I've played the deck a few times and already won a decent amount of money which I used to purchase more cards at a cost of $0.
If you bought the cards to play then play. If you bought the cards to collect, then just enjoy them. If you bought the cards to gain value then take your losses like every other investor. It's that simple.
It would need Elf, shoal, Progenitus/summoners pact, and land to turn 2 kill. I feel like the decks consistency was based off Ponder/Preordain consistency. That was a much different time in magic and modern.
If we can legitimize infects current existence by saying "Dies to removal" when their spells buff toughness , I would say we could do the same for a combo that gives +X/+0. Recently I've adopted the belief that if you're unwilling to interact then you deserve to die. If infect shoal wants to go 100 miles an hour and get blown out by bolt that's their prerogative. If they win turn 4 by putting up defenses then there is no real issue. I would say that shoal, like much of the original ban list cards, didn't have time to let the meta adapt. I mean, blazing infect gets blown out by Gut Shot if they aren't protecting the combo.
Current infect can also win turn two, but we are fine with it because if I bolt their turn 1 elf they stumble. same here. However, bolting in response to the shoal targeting is a complete blowout since they don't have the redundency that current infect has. I would say since the printing of Become Immense, Shoal is outclassed.
"Is Blazing Shoal infect any faster than the infect deck we have now?"
I would say probably not. I think infects power comes from the fact that they have access to so many "+4/+4" cards, but with shoal combo, you have to have a VERY specific opening hand to turn 2-3 the opponent. That said, I feel it's weak because, in a world where you only have sleight of hand and serum visions, it can't be very consistent. As someone who hates Infect, I don't think the deck would be OP and would be an interesting deck to have in the format.
DnT plays 3 of them with Mangara of Corondor to permanently exile permanents. Also to protect Thalia. Swing with thalia equipped with jitte into something really big, get the counters, bounce thalia.
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Serra Avenger
1x Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
4x Flickerwisp
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Æther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands
10x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
2x Karakas
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
Oddities:
Eight-and-a-half-tails and Displacer
EaaHT has been really good actually. I see him as Mom #5, but it can actually close out the game by itself. I've won games where I got EaaHT equipped with SoFI and just held up mana to protect him.
Displacer is similar, but is Flickerwisp #5 that only hits creatures. It also has fantastic stats as a 3/3 for three that does stuff.