@hellakevin
Speaking of "black-and-white" comments, I'd really appreciate feedback on Sword of Light and Shadow. You mentioned a few months ago that you were trying it out as a sort of "Abzan killer" and it appears to have functioned well enough to maintain its slot. Are there any other matchups you bring it in, and does it change your style of play into a more controlling one? It seems like a sweet card I'd love to play with, it's just kinda expensive at 5 mana (and at $32 for that matter). Also, how exactly do you sideboard against the Abzan matchup? +3 Rain of Gore, +1 Sword is about as much as I can confidently guess. I'm taking my list to States as well this weekend and I'm considering adding a few of your sideboard cards, as I already own two Blood Crypts I could slot into the main deck. I should be able to do the math myself, but this would make Abzan Company's kill condition become either normal combat or comboing with Murderous Redcap, right? And if they have Anafenza instead of Melira, we should be able to interrupt that combo with a well-timed bolt? I don't have quite as much Abzan hanging around my LGS but I do expect to see it at States and I'd love to hear your experiences and thoughts on the matchup! Thanks!
Unlucky draws do tend to do it. You'll get 'em next time, I'm sure. Control is my way of saying, I want to kill your Goblin Electromancer so much that I'm going to Grenade my FSD into it on turn 2. I want to interact with my opponent as much as possible to slow down their combo, because all the rest of my cards are just going to bludgeon them to death.
I also want to share my report from this previous Monday, where I went 3-1. You can find my list on post #3918 on page 155, and I do not believe there was a single change to the list.
Round 1 - 5c Bring to Light (2-1)
Game 1 was rough with him grabbing a t1 Birds of Paradise as I look down at my balls to the wall aggro start without a Fanatic or a Bolt. He follows it up with a t2 Courser of Kruphix, then t3 Courser number two with a land drop. My hand is gaseous enough that I'm able to attack through the Coursers a few times with FSD pumps and I even get him down to 4 through two additional Path to Exiles, but that's when he landed a Siege Rhino and kept triggering his Coursers to stabilize. Game 2 I punch his face in with our typical strong draw. Game 3 is more of a game where he saves a lot of damage by playing his shocks tapped, but that effectively just puts me on the play. He also stalls out at 3 lands with a Siege Rhino and a Thragtusk in hand, but I'm able to kick a Bushwhacker and Gruul Charm in the same turn to close it out.
Round 2 - Gb Elves (2-0)
This player is somewhat new to Elves and isn't running the most robust list, so I easily crushed him. His biggest fundamental mistake was failing to recognize he was on the pure control path until he could draw into his Ezuris or his lords, and he would just get in with a 2/2 (his best blocker!) when he could. Elves is a matchup we must be as streamlined as possible, but at the same time, spot removal is quintessential to halting the inevitable elf-ball. I don't trust this result as indicative of it being a favorable matchup.
Round 3 - UR Storm (2-0)
I really don't remember too much about game 1 except the fact that I was trying to goldfish as fast as possible, while I had to take a moment to bolt his Goblin Electromancer. I felt pretty dead on turn 4 when he had to go off (he knew I had lethal in hand from Gitaxian Probe) but he fizzled. Game 2 I saw my Grafdigger's Cage in my opening hand, and he had failed to sideboard anything to get around it. I still was paranoid about him getting a lot of goblins through Empty the Warrens, so my turn 2 was spent ignoring his face and playing a FSD and Goblin Grenading his t2 Electromancer, as I did not have any other removal in my hand. It turns out he couldn't combo through the Cage and I smack him to death over 5-6 turns.
Round 4 - Elves (1-2)
Now this opponent has been on Elves since I started showing up at the store, and is clearly super familiar with the deck and its nuances. He's also really good at drawing the right mix of cards against me. Game 1 I win my first die-roll of the evening and just massacre him with t1 FSD t2 Piledriver t3 something t4 Devastating Summons + Bushwhacker or some similar elf-crushing hand. Game 2 and 3 I'm working my brain overtime to find the optimal plays, but after keeping a 1 lander in game 3, I find myself drawing 4-5 lands off the top to fizzle out my action against an active Scavenging Ooze. Thragtusk then comes down, and I can't punch through the 11 points of life that were gained. My record against this player is something like 0-3 or 0-4, so every time I face him now I show up at the table with such hope to make it my first victory, but he always just... beats me. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Grafdigger's Cage put a hold on two Collected Company's in game 2 that he was holding in hand, but he found Beast Within to blow it up and subsequently blow me out. One day I will emerge victorious! One day...
Went 1-3 tonight. Combination of bad draws on my end, my "off" playing, good draws on my opponents end, and just unlucky mathcups.
Game 1, Infect. Nuff said. Our deck doesn't have enough spot removal main or sideboard to combat this matchup, and we can't out clock them, especially with a rancor/evasion.
Like treachtv said, I personally find the infect matchup supremely favored. The 4 Mogg Fanatics and 4 Lightning Bolts are essential to winning the first game, then sideboard I add Destructive Revelry's to kill the Inkmoths as well as my current package of 1 Electrickery, 1 Forked Bolt, and 2 Searing Blaze. Sure, I've lost games, but as I mentioned about 3-4 pages ago, I don't actually think I've lost to Infect with Goblins, going 7-0 or something. Part of it is that my opponent's haven't always been the best pilots, as Infect seems to attract the more budget players, but spell sequencing is absolutely CRUCIAL in the Infect matchup. Knowing when to pop off your Fanatics, when to Bolt to give yourself the most protection. I take out my aggressive cards like Piledrivers and Reckless Bushwhackers and strap in to play the control game. Yes, this does require more spot removal in the board, but my meta at the moment has a lot of Elves floating around, so I can easily trade in an extra spot removal card.
The whole "turning into a control deck" plan is something I've grown to appreciate over time. I find success doing this against decks like Infect, Affinity, and even UR Storm.
edit: I should mention that if you're not running green for sideboard, Smash to Smithereens is a fine option against Infect. Inkmoth Nexus is that hard to kill, and damage based removal has quite a few more windows where it's bad against the pump spells. Inkmoth and Blighted Agent are the cards that should eat your removal first, although I will kill a t1 Hierarch if my hand has enough backup interaction.
Wolpertinger, Abzan Company is kinda just a terrible matchup. I'm very thankful that it only shows up once every three weeks or so at my LGS. In fact, I don't believe I've beaten any Abzan deck with any of my goblin decks. I take games, sure, but Finks and other lifegain becomes very hard to beat, as well as Lingering Souls (without Legion Loyalist). Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it's definitely a difficult matchup. Bogles, on the other hand, I've never played against. My friend bought the mono-red version of the deck (very similar to your build) recently on MTGO and beat it with a lot of Goblin Grenades, but past that you kinda just need to a. dodge Daybreak Coronets and/or b. splash green for Destructive Revelry. Part of the reason I just added all the green lands was to shore up matchups against random enchantments. Also, I'm guessing you saw how favorable the burn matchup is. Do you really think you need the Dragon Claws for it? My opinion is no. With my sideboard up above your post, I'd bring in Pyrite Spellbomb and Skullcrack to help deal with Kor Firewalker, taking out Piledrivers, but past that one card we just kinda beat burn, and oftentimes beat burn through a Firewalker (Devastating Summons has been good for me in that situation before).
tl;dr You can beat Abzan Company with good draws vs. less interactive ones. You can beat Bogles by dodging Daybreak Coronet or playing Destructive Revelry. So yeah, be lucky :S
Hello everyone, been awhile since I've played Magic due to vacation, but I went to Modern Monday again last night and wanted to share my latest shake-up. Here's my 75:
I'm still totally on the 8-Whack main plan. After putting the deck together I've gone 9-1 with it in paper tournaments, and this main deck 60 is actually just mono-red with the green landbase. I still haven't found any reason to put in Goblin Chieftain, as he just makes more hands unkeepable, so I just go with all 4-of's except for the obvious Devastating Summons. Devastating Summons is pretty much just a free-roll card in this deck that I'm happy when I see it and I'm happy if I don't, but it's a powerful effect I really appreciate spending 1/60 of my deck on. The only other main deck consideration I have is Burning-Tree Emissary, which I would consider more against an attrition-heavy metagame. I would likely take out all 4 Piledrivers (and probably put one or two of them in the sideboard) for the BTE's.
Report time! I went 2-1 tonight (3-1 with the first round bye), beating Jund and Infect, losing to Affinity.
R1 Bye
R2 Jund - (2-1)
Game 1 I mulligan a five land hand into a zero land 6. I keep anyway, because I'm on the draw and I have a scry and I'm belligerent like that. I miss my first three land drops as he Inquisitions me, then Thoughtseizes, then drops Bob. I just sit there smiling wondering when I should concede, then 5 minutes later I've won the game and I don't even know how. This is a very good player as well - he just couldn't draw any threats as I chained together lands and could finally start whittling away at his life total. I sideboard in Domri Rade, Skullcrack, Gruul Charm, and Relic of Progenitus, taking out 2 Bolts and 2 Piledrivers. Game 2 he Junds me out as I flood a bit, I concede to a Feed the Clan with a 4/4 Raging Ravine out. Game 3 goes the way Jund games usually go, as I begin to peter out my assault around 10 life but he remains without a creature. My top deck Devastating Summons for X=3 plays right into any Angers that may crop up, but I manage to exactly kill him with Anger on top of his deck.
R3 Affinity - (0-2)
This player always seems to beat me, no matter how good I feel about the matchup. He definitely always finds great lines and is adept at affinity math. Game 1 I get greedy against a Vault Skirge with a Cranial Plating to deal 16 damage, taking him down to 4 with a goblin grenade in hand. He top decks his second Cranial Plating and that's just enough to kill me (he'd already swung in and gained 6 life at that point). In retrospect I should've done the math to realize I was just dead to another Plating, and taken the more conservative line of Grenading the Vault Skirge and surging my Bushwhacker behind it, but that deals so much less damage that my judgment became clouded. I bring in 8 cards from my sideboard for Game 2, leading me to believe I have a bit too much invested in this matchup - 1 Smash to Smithereens, 2 Destructive Revelry, 1 Electrickery, 2 Searing Blaze, 1 Forked Bolt, and the 1 Gruul Charm. I take out 4 FSD, 2 War Marshals, and 2 Reckless Bushwhacker and decide I'm just going to play control (which I believe is correct). My hand is amazing with 2 1-drop creatures, 2 Bolts, a Gruul Charm, and a Destructive Revelry, but it only has my Shinka for a land. I keep and drop my two 1-drops before the opponent drops a Chalice on 1, leaving my Bolts staring at me silently as he plays out a very slow hand. I fail to find my land until the turn it's too late, and I die to Infect damage as his Steel Overseer pumps his Inkmoth Nexus just past my Gruul Charm. Crushing loss to end my personal 15-match win streak (8-0 modern, 7-0 draft).
R4 Infect - (2-0)
Infect is pretty much a free roll as far as I'm concerned. I haven't lost a match to it... ever? Mogg Fanatic shines here, as does Bolt and my opponent's Gitaxian Probes Perhaps if I was playing Tom Ross I'd lose, but I'm getting cocky over here...
Anyway, my opponent was not playing very well, which surprised me that he was 2-1 going into the round. He was forgetting that Pendelhaven can't target Noble Hierarch, using protection spells on his Hierarchs, using Gitaxian Probe and then not playing around the obvious cards in my hand with mana up. Needless to say, I handily won this match without taking a single point of infect damage. After this shellacking we played two more games because he "knew he could beat me" and I stomped him those two games as well. So yeah, if you don't want to lose to Infect, this deck is great.
edit: Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that Smash should probably be some other artifact hate spell, since Revelry basically does the same thing but hits enchantments. Whatever strikes your fancy - Shattering Spree, Ancient Grudge, or another Revelry are all probably better. I just wanted to play with my shiny new promo :^) Also, part of the "green splash" is Searing Blaze, a card I wanted to try out for the first time. I didn't actually play it/see it much, and I'll leave it in because I believe it to be strong and in line with what I want against some decks. I call it a green splash because it motivates me to run fetch lands, something I wouldn't necessarily want to do if I was truly mono-red.
Well; I took my list with 2 changes in the 75 from last time to my store's Modern Monday and swept the field, going 4-0. I'm starting to believe it's the right amount of consistency to enable a goblin breakthrough. Here's the list I played:
Round 1 - UR Storm (2-1)
Game 1 I keep a hand without a 1-drop and decline to bolt him on his end step, which would have provided enough damage to kill him on turn 3, and he successfully went off on turn 4 with 2 life remaining (and I even had a Mogg Fanatic on board D:). Games 2 and 3 I just kill him though. Sideboarded in all 3 GY cards but didn't see them either game.
Round 2 - UW Eldrazi (2-0)
This is such a terrible deck idk why so many people want to play this tier 3 garbage /s
I do actually get really lucky in this match, topdecking Mogg Fanatic with him at 1 among other things. I'm still somewhat surprised at how successfully 8-Whack does against this powerhouse of a deck. I sideboard in Magmatic Chasm, 2 Forked Bolts, and a Blood Moon.
Round 3 - UG Eldrazi (2-1)
Game 1 he mulls to 4 and I have a nuts hand. Game 2 I have a much less powerful start and he overpowers me. Game 3 I draw like 5 bushwhackers but hardly any other goblins. I get into this weird board stall where he's too concerned about the backswing so he doesn't attack until he finds a Reality Smasher. My initial onslaught had left him at 3 life, though, and I had about 4 draw steps to try and find my lethal damage, so I didn't feel too bad about topdecking my Goblin Grenade the last turn before I was dead. I almost made a mistake with Piledriver in this match, thinking he had protection from Drowner of Hope, but it turns out Devoid is a relevant word.
Round 4 - Naya Big Zoo (2-0)
Game 1 he's on the play and fetch-shocks to play t1 Birds, I t1 Mogg Fanatic it. My next turn I establish a board with FSD and Goblin Guide while he does nothing but crack another fetch, then turn 3 he drops a Loxodon Smiter (shocking himself in order to cast it). My turn 3 consists of Mogg War Marshal + Legion Loyalist, and I only swing with FSD. He trades the creatures. Turn 4 he plays Noble Hierarch and a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary, after fetching (he's taken 7 damage from his lands at this point). I'm able to kick a Goblin Bushwhacker and swing fearlessly with the Legion Loyalist Battalion trigger, and when he blocks with the 5/5 I let first strike damage resolve then bolt the Knight. Ajani Vengeant makes a maindeck appearance on turn 5 by -2'ing my Loyalist, but I have a hard cast OG Bushwhacker into Surge Whacker to get him exactly to 0. That game would have been a lot harder had I not killed the BoP turn 1, something I will ALWAYS recommend doing if possible. Game 2 is a silly affair - he mulls to 5 and keeps a Stomping Ground with nothing to cast. He rips the t2 BoP then my Goblin Guide reveals a Bonfire of the Damned, which we have a great laugh about as he kills my two FSDs on his draw step but has to leave behind my Goblin Guide. My Goblin Guide continues to reveal non-lands, and I even take a turn off after revealing Lightning Helix to Bolt the Bird. He died soon thereafter.
My impressions are that this deck is amazing when opponents don't play Kitchen Finks. I highly recommend it to anyone, and the Simian Spirit Guide is just a silly 1-of that replaces a land. I didn't draw it a single time in the four matches, so I don't have any data on if it's good or not, but I like the spiciness it provides. I was disillusioned from Modern after seeing Eldrazi Winter descend upon us, but now I have seen the light. I was lost, but now am found. Long live the horde.
About the current topic of mulligans, I have a few thoughts (about 8-Whack):
1. Try not to mulligan.
2. Really, don't do it.
3. You really think this is necessary?
4. Consider again.
5. If you've made it this far, I suppoooooose it's okay to mulligan.
I would keep a triple goblin grenade hand if it had a land. You just need to find 5 damage somewhere else in the game and you've probably got a win locked up. I keep every one lander that has at least two 1-drop creatures. I keep every 4 lander that has a 1-drop and a 2-drop, or a 4 lander with Devastating Summons. I mulligan every 5+ land hand, and can be convinced to keep a 0-lander if I have all 1-drops, I'm on the draw, and I've already mulliganed (so I have a scry). I keep every 2-lander. You couldn't name a 2-lander 7 I'd mull, because each possible hand has some kind of play I can be convinced to make.
Hey guys, it's been awhile since I've played goblins as I've just been convinced Eldrazi are too good these days. However, I did play in one of my store's modern FNM this past weekend, and have a 3-0 (6-0) score to report back with I've been on RG for the last 3-4 months now, but seeing the success of SaffronOlive inspired me to eschew the green for more consistency.
SB:
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Forked Bolt
1 Shattering Spree
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Blood Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
(I also put in 1 Act of Treason and 1 Goblin Heelcutter in here but I'm not quite sure why and never brought them in)
As you can see, my list is basically SaffronOlive's, just without the Chieftains (still can't really get behind the card no matter how much damage I see it do). In their place I added the 4th Piledriver, 1 Devastating Summons, and 1 Skullcrack. I'm 100% sure every Bushwhacker deck should run a single Devastating Summons, but the Skullcrack was a pretty random decision while preparing the deck beforehand. I just wanted to have that extra burn spell that doubles as Finks hate in my mainboard, because oh my god I hate Kitchen Finks with all of my soul. Going forward, I plan on actually keeping in the Skullcrack until I'm presented with and inspired by another random fun-of.
Contested War Zone was a test card for this tournament, and after drawing it once and having it (potentially) screw up a curve out, I'm going to take it out. Red mana is just too valuable in a deck where you want to be kicking Goblin Bushwhackers.
Matches:
Round 1 - UW Eldrazi 2-0
I massacred the poor guy. He thought he could race me with hasty trampling 5/5s on turn three. I punished him game 1 with a turn 3 Devastating Summons -> Goblin Bushwhacker play with Legion Loyalist on board that took him to 2. He didn't have enough blockers/removal to survive the next swing. Game 2 I had another huge turn 3 swing that took him to 4. A Bolt plus the Mogg Fanatic on board was enough to kill him on turn 4.
Round 2 - Kiki-Chord 2-0
He played 2 Wall of Roots, I revealed a Path and a Chord off of Guide. Thankfully on one swing he blocked Goblin Guide instead of a 1/1 with his Wall so I was able to finish off the first one with a Bolt. I did not want to see him chord for a Finks or anything else backbreaking. Game 2 he kept the Forest Birds Birds hand without a second land against my super reactive hand of 3 Mogg Fanatics and a Forked Bolt. I Fanatic'ed the first birds with my entire turn 1, Forked Bolted the other and dropped a FSD, then beat his face in as he drew nonlands.
Round 3 - Merfolk 2-0
Goblin Piledriver is, uhh, pretty good in this matchup. He tore up game 1 against a Cursecatcher -> Silvergill draw by my opponent. Game 2 was closer as I did not draw the ol' driver of piles and he landed a Master of Waves. Thankfully my opponent blocked conservatively, hoping to win on the backswing, and I was able to Skullcrack (so relevant!) to kill off his Master of Waves and help me deal lethal burn.
Deck's great, really. The only changes I plan on making for next week are to cut the Contested War Zone and replace it with a Simian Spirit Guide, because fast mana is sweet sometimes but I also kinda want enough lands. It also has incidental value against this extra turns deck I played against because if they try to mill me by plussing Jace Beleren I can draw the Guide and cast Bolt. Super marginal, I know. With the sideboard, I plan on finding a replacement for Act of Treason/Goblin Heelcutter. I'm probably going to add a Zo-Zu the Punisher in my board as Scapeshift hate since there are a few Scapeshift decks who play around me. Perhaps Magmatic Chasm will be the other card I add.
As always, any thoughts on my list are appreciated, although I'm pretty certain this iteration is the perfect mix of consistent and blazingly powerful.
That was intended to be a reply to Fel_15's comment, by the way. With regard to your comment, Phone, I do agree that the constant conversation is great. I've been able to identify a few of the more prominent posters' gameplay styles based on the particular builds they tend to gravitate to. It's great to have this much breathing room in our archetype, as it really enables us to react to the meta. If people are moving towards combo, we have fantastic turn 3 kill variants thanks to MedRage and his seemingly infinite testing. If cards like Electrickery, Night of Souls' Betrayal, or Izzet Staticaster (1 damage sweepers) become big, we have Burning-Tree Emissary builds that run a lot of 2-toughness creatures. If we expect a lot of Affinity, Infect, or the mirror (imagine the day!), then we have the classic no-lords build to fall back on. The sweet thing with Magic is, new cards keep getting printed which give us more toys to mess around with. Reckless Bushwhacker may be what it takes to bring Goblins to the spotlight, but there's definitely a whole lot more work to be done with optimizing our archetype in Modern!
Something I noticed when running mono-red was that Contested War Zone became a viable "lord" in the deck. I'm not sure its presence is necessary due to the additional Bushwhacking going on, but it could be something to test as the last land in the deck. Perhaps cut that 8th Bushwhacker for the 4th Mogg Fanatic but throw in the War Zone? Just a thought. Other than that, the list looks very solid. I honestly can't find a card I'd change with where the meta's at for the maindeck.
The sideboard is where my opinion definitely varies from yours. I've never felt that Dragon's Claw is that necessary. Burn is at a very poor spot in the meta at the moment to begin with, and I'm not quite sure how Goblins loses to Burn, since we deal more damage per card than they do. I'd probably throw in my personal favorite of 2 Pyrite Spellbombs in that slot, as it deals with the Kor Firewalkers that mess with us that can be brought in by Burn as well as other white decks.
I like the Forked Bolts. I'm the kind of player who loves to interact with my opponent. If I can interact with their face, all the better. Forked Bolt allows me to interact with faces and creatures at a very cheap rate, so I always rate the card highly.
The three Blood Moons seem a bit underpowered in this iteration of the deck. I like running the card when I run Simian Spirit Guides, as it's a lot better when you get to do unfair stuff a turn earlier than normal. For the purposes of this deck, I'd look into Molten Rains, as they perform a lot of the same function, oftentimes time walk-ing the opponent as well as dealing 2 damage.
Smash to Smithereens is a pretty sweet card. For a mono-red build, I think it's probably the best option. Back when I was on mono-red (and I'm heavily considering moving back to mono-red now), I would have run 3 Shattering Sprees as the entirety of my sideboard artifact hate. It gets around Chalice and is back-breaking against Affinity. That being said, I think Smash to Smithereens pushes you into a more aggressive role, which is totally fine, considering we're playing goblins over here
I'm curious as to why you think you need 4 pieces of graveyard hate. Do you expect a lot of the meta to be GY oriented? I've been running singletons of Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage as my GY package, and honestly haven't really wished I had anymore. Each of these four GY cards do have their ups and downs, so depending on the styles of GY decks you think you'll see you may prefer Tormod's Crypts and Surgical Extractions, but I do question the quantity of hate. I recall seeing lists that ran the 4th Piledriver in the side, maybe cut an Extraction for that? Piledriver does really shine in both non-interactive matchups as well as blue decks like Merfolk.
Something I would try to avoid is putting in the Eidolons for this weekend. It may be correct; it may be the card that makes this deck that much better - however, it's such a tricky card to play with that when you're playing in a massive tournament like a Grand Prix, it's crucial that you're familiar with the ins and outs of your deck. Eidolon is something to try for another tournament.
Other cards I'd like to put on your radar without actually knowing if you'd like them or want them (or if I'd like them or want them):
Rending Volley, Magmatic Chasm, and Skullcrack. All very niche cards that I've found occasionally have very positive interactions with modern Goblins.
Best of luck in the GP this weekend! If you have any questions, I'd be happy to defend my choices further, or at least discuss them until you convince me I'm wrong
I've reverted to a list pretty close to hellakevin's No-Lords build with the banning of Twin. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/no-lords-goblins/ is the link for the lazy. I could be wrong to do so, but I'm going to explain some of my thoughts on that. Infect and Affinity certainly seem a lot better in the new meta, which makes me want to play Mogg Fanatics. Mogg Fanatics seem to be dropping off of the list of the surge decklists, as well as interaction in general. The only real differences with my current build are that I'm running 3 mainboard Forked Bolts. This may be a bit of an overreaction, but when I played a few Infect decks my last small tourney, I handily took both matches. Giving it some thought I think I'd rather have another instant speed spell, and may be replacing the third Forked Bolt for a Shard Volley. Increasing the amount of burn is never really bad against the field either, as it increases the number of top-deck outs in any matchup.
I just hate conceding the match to an excited Infect player, or just simply racing another deck and hoping I draw well enough to finish someone off. I suppose the contract I signed when I decided to play Goblins dictates that I should be more reckless, but I'm a sucker for interacting with my opponent, for better or for worse.
My question to the players who are exploring the surge deck - do you feel in control of your own destiny when you play the deck? How often does your opening hand fizzle but you still manage to pull out the match due to explosive top-decks? Do you feel like there are unwinnable matchups, and if you have experience playing strict No-Lords, are those matchups greater in number?
Never had a problem with Bloom, myself, so somewhat sad to see that one go. Twin I'm stoked about. Finally can shave Rending Volleys out of my sideboard.
The question I want to ask now though, is what decks will rise in Twin's place. What decks that Twin beat consistently might start showing up again? What decks that beat Twin consistently no longer have it on their menu? How does all this affect Goblins? Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on the modern meta or anything so I can only attempt to answer these questions. My best guess is that random combo decks just got better, as well as other aggro decks. That being said, I feel as if Goblins are in a decent spot right now, as we can be just a little faster and leaner than other aggressive decks. I almost want to play Lightning Helixes now...
I actually was serious for a hot minute there. Seems like I want to be casting Tarmogoyfs after Burning-Tree Emissary. It does seem weird to include in a goblin deck, and it might just be shifting away from having the critical mass of goblins, but Tarmogoyf is expensive for a reason and can attack through a lot of potential blockers. I might try testing it briefly - I likely won't actually be adding it though since I don't own goyfs and uhhhh.... yeah. But it'd be an interesting card to experiment with.
Speaking of "black-and-white" comments, I'd really appreciate feedback on Sword of Light and Shadow. You mentioned a few months ago that you were trying it out as a sort of "Abzan killer" and it appears to have functioned well enough to maintain its slot. Are there any other matchups you bring it in, and does it change your style of play into a more controlling one? It seems like a sweet card I'd love to play with, it's just kinda expensive at 5 mana (and at $32 for that matter). Also, how exactly do you sideboard against the Abzan matchup? +3 Rain of Gore, +1 Sword is about as much as I can confidently guess. I'm taking my list to States as well this weekend and I'm considering adding a few of your sideboard cards, as I already own two Blood Crypts I could slot into the main deck. I should be able to do the math myself, but this would make Abzan Company's kill condition become either normal combat or comboing with Murderous Redcap, right? And if they have Anafenza instead of Melira, we should be able to interrupt that combo with a well-timed bolt? I don't have quite as much Abzan hanging around my LGS but I do expect to see it at States and I'd love to hear your experiences and thoughts on the matchup! Thanks!
Round 1 - 5c Bring to Light (2-1)
Game 1 was rough with him grabbing a t1 Birds of Paradise as I look down at my balls to the wall aggro start without a Fanatic or a Bolt. He follows it up with a t2 Courser of Kruphix, then t3 Courser number two with a land drop. My hand is gaseous enough that I'm able to attack through the Coursers a few times with FSD pumps and I even get him down to 4 through two additional Path to Exiles, but that's when he landed a Siege Rhino and kept triggering his Coursers to stabilize. Game 2 I punch his face in with our typical strong draw. Game 3 is more of a game where he saves a lot of damage by playing his shocks tapped, but that effectively just puts me on the play. He also stalls out at 3 lands with a Siege Rhino and a Thragtusk in hand, but I'm able to kick a Bushwhacker and Gruul Charm in the same turn to close it out.
Round 2 - Gb Elves (2-0)
This player is somewhat new to Elves and isn't running the most robust list, so I easily crushed him. His biggest fundamental mistake was failing to recognize he was on the pure control path until he could draw into his Ezuris or his lords, and he would just get in with a 2/2 (his best blocker!) when he could. Elves is a matchup we must be as streamlined as possible, but at the same time, spot removal is quintessential to halting the inevitable elf-ball. I don't trust this result as indicative of it being a favorable matchup.
Round 3 - UR Storm (2-0)
I really don't remember too much about game 1 except the fact that I was trying to goldfish as fast as possible, while I had to take a moment to bolt his Goblin Electromancer. I felt pretty dead on turn 4 when he had to go off (he knew I had lethal in hand from Gitaxian Probe) but he fizzled. Game 2 I saw my Grafdigger's Cage in my opening hand, and he had failed to sideboard anything to get around it. I still was paranoid about him getting a lot of goblins through Empty the Warrens, so my turn 2 was spent ignoring his face and playing a FSD and Goblin Grenading his t2 Electromancer, as I did not have any other removal in my hand. It turns out he couldn't combo through the Cage and I smack him to death over 5-6 turns.
Round 4 - Elves (1-2)
Now this opponent has been on Elves since I started showing up at the store, and is clearly super familiar with the deck and its nuances. He's also really good at drawing the right mix of cards against me. Game 1 I win my first die-roll of the evening and just massacre him with t1 FSD t2 Piledriver t3 something t4 Devastating Summons + Bushwhacker or some similar elf-crushing hand. Game 2 and 3 I'm working my brain overtime to find the optimal plays, but after keeping a 1 lander in game 3, I find myself drawing 4-5 lands off the top to fizzle out my action against an active Scavenging Ooze. Thragtusk then comes down, and I can't punch through the 11 points of life that were gained. My record against this player is something like 0-3 or 0-4, so every time I face him now I show up at the table with such hope to make it my first victory, but he always just... beats me. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Grafdigger's Cage put a hold on two Collected Company's in game 2 that he was holding in hand, but he found Beast Within to blow it up and subsequently blow me out. One day I will emerge victorious! One day...
Like treachtv said, I personally find the infect matchup supremely favored. The 4 Mogg Fanatics and 4 Lightning Bolts are essential to winning the first game, then sideboard I add Destructive Revelry's to kill the Inkmoths as well as my current package of 1 Electrickery, 1 Forked Bolt, and 2 Searing Blaze. Sure, I've lost games, but as I mentioned about 3-4 pages ago, I don't actually think I've lost to Infect with Goblins, going 7-0 or something. Part of it is that my opponent's haven't always been the best pilots, as Infect seems to attract the more budget players, but spell sequencing is absolutely CRUCIAL in the Infect matchup. Knowing when to pop off your Fanatics, when to Bolt to give yourself the most protection. I take out my aggressive cards like Piledrivers and Reckless Bushwhackers and strap in to play the control game. Yes, this does require more spot removal in the board, but my meta at the moment has a lot of Elves floating around, so I can easily trade in an extra spot removal card.
The whole "turning into a control deck" plan is something I've grown to appreciate over time. I find success doing this against decks like Infect, Affinity, and even UR Storm.
edit: I should mention that if you're not running green for sideboard, Smash to Smithereens is a fine option against Infect. Inkmoth Nexus is that hard to kill, and damage based removal has quite a few more windows where it's bad against the pump spells. Inkmoth and Blighted Agent are the cards that should eat your removal first, although I will kill a t1 Hierarch if my hand has enough backup interaction.
tl;dr You can beat Abzan Company with good draws vs. less interactive ones. You can beat Bogles by dodging Daybreak Coronet or playing Destructive Revelry. So yeah, be lucky :S
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Grenade
1 Devastating Summons
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Stomping Ground
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 Mountain
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Electrickery
2 Searing Blaze
1 Forked Bolt
1 Skullcrack
1 Domri Rade
1 Blood Moon
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gruul Charm
I'm still totally on the 8-Whack main plan. After putting the deck together I've gone 9-1 with it in paper tournaments, and this main deck 60 is actually just mono-red with the green landbase. I still haven't found any reason to put in Goblin Chieftain, as he just makes more hands unkeepable, so I just go with all 4-of's except for the obvious Devastating Summons. Devastating Summons is pretty much just a free-roll card in this deck that I'm happy when I see it and I'm happy if I don't, but it's a powerful effect I really appreciate spending 1/60 of my deck on. The only other main deck consideration I have is Burning-Tree Emissary, which I would consider more against an attrition-heavy metagame. I would likely take out all 4 Piledrivers (and probably put one or two of them in the sideboard) for the BTE's.
Report time! I went 2-1 tonight (3-1 with the first round bye), beating Jund and Infect, losing to Affinity.
R1 Bye
R2 Jund - (2-1)
Game 1 I mulligan a five land hand into a zero land 6. I keep anyway, because I'm on the draw and I have a scry and I'm belligerent like that. I miss my first three land drops as he Inquisitions me, then Thoughtseizes, then drops Bob. I just sit there smiling wondering when I should concede, then 5 minutes later I've won the game and I don't even know how. This is a very good player as well - he just couldn't draw any threats as I chained together lands and could finally start whittling away at his life total. I sideboard in Domri Rade, Skullcrack, Gruul Charm, and Relic of Progenitus, taking out 2 Bolts and 2 Piledrivers. Game 2 he Junds me out as I flood a bit, I concede to a Feed the Clan with a 4/4 Raging Ravine out. Game 3 goes the way Jund games usually go, as I begin to peter out my assault around 10 life but he remains without a creature. My top deck Devastating Summons for X=3 plays right into any Angers that may crop up, but I manage to exactly kill him with Anger on top of his deck.
R3 Affinity - (0-2)
This player always seems to beat me, no matter how good I feel about the matchup. He definitely always finds great lines and is adept at affinity math. Game 1 I get greedy against a Vault Skirge with a Cranial Plating to deal 16 damage, taking him down to 4 with a goblin grenade in hand. He top decks his second Cranial Plating and that's just enough to kill me (he'd already swung in and gained 6 life at that point). In retrospect I should've done the math to realize I was just dead to another Plating, and taken the more conservative line of Grenading the Vault Skirge and surging my Bushwhacker behind it, but that deals so much less damage that my judgment became clouded. I bring in 8 cards from my sideboard for Game 2, leading me to believe I have a bit too much invested in this matchup - 1 Smash to Smithereens, 2 Destructive Revelry, 1 Electrickery, 2 Searing Blaze, 1 Forked Bolt, and the 1 Gruul Charm. I take out 4 FSD, 2 War Marshals, and 2 Reckless Bushwhacker and decide I'm just going to play control (which I believe is correct). My hand is amazing with 2 1-drop creatures, 2 Bolts, a Gruul Charm, and a Destructive Revelry, but it only has my Shinka for a land. I keep and drop my two 1-drops before the opponent drops a Chalice on 1, leaving my Bolts staring at me silently as he plays out a very slow hand. I fail to find my land until the turn it's too late, and I die to Infect damage as his Steel Overseer pumps his Inkmoth Nexus just past my Gruul Charm. Crushing loss to end my personal 15-match win streak (8-0 modern, 7-0 draft).
R4 Infect - (2-0)
Infect is pretty much a free roll as far as I'm concerned. I haven't lost a match to it... ever? Mogg Fanatic shines here, as does Bolt and my opponent's Gitaxian Probes
Anyway, my opponent was not playing very well, which surprised me that he was 2-1 going into the round. He was forgetting that Pendelhaven can't target Noble Hierarch, using protection spells on his Hierarchs, using Gitaxian Probe and then not playing around the obvious cards in my hand with mana up. Needless to say, I handily won this match without taking a single point of infect damage. After this shellacking we played two more games because he "knew he could beat me" and I stomped him those two games as well. So yeah, if you don't want to lose to Infect, this deck is great.
edit: Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that Smash should probably be some other artifact hate spell, since Revelry basically does the same thing but hits enchantments. Whatever strikes your fancy - Shattering Spree, Ancient Grudge, or another Revelry are all probably better. I just wanted to play with my shiny new promo :^) Also, part of the "green splash" is Searing Blaze, a card I wanted to try out for the first time. I didn't actually play it/see it much, and I'll leave it in because I believe it to be strong and in line with what I want against some decks. I call it a green splash because it motivates me to run fetch lands, something I wouldn't necessarily want to do if I was truly mono-red.
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
1 Skullcrack
1 Devastating Summons
17 Mountain
SB:
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Forked Bolt
1 Shattering Spree
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Blood Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Act of Treason
1 Magmatic Chasm
Round 1 - UR Storm (2-1)
Game 1 I keep a hand without a 1-drop
Round 2 - UW Eldrazi (2-0)
This is such a terrible deck idk why so many people want to play this tier 3 garbage /s
I do actually get really lucky in this match, topdecking Mogg Fanatic with him at 1 among other things. I'm still somewhat surprised at how successfully 8-Whack does against this powerhouse of a deck. I sideboard in Magmatic Chasm, 2 Forked Bolts, and a Blood Moon.
Round 3 - UG Eldrazi (2-1)
Game 1 he mulls to 4 and I have a nuts hand. Game 2 I have a much less powerful start and he overpowers me. Game 3 I draw like 5 bushwhackers but hardly any other goblins. I get into this weird board stall where he's too concerned about the backswing so he doesn't attack until he finds a Reality Smasher. My initial onslaught had left him at 3 life, though, and I had about 4 draw steps to try and find my lethal damage, so I didn't feel too bad about topdecking my Goblin Grenade the last turn before I was dead. I almost made a mistake with Piledriver in this match, thinking he had protection from Drowner of Hope, but it turns out Devoid is a relevant word.
Round 4 - Naya Big Zoo (2-0)
Game 1 he's on the play and fetch-shocks to play t1 Birds, I t1 Mogg Fanatic it. My next turn I establish a board with FSD and Goblin Guide while he does nothing but crack another fetch, then turn 3 he drops a Loxodon Smiter (shocking himself in order to cast it). My turn 3 consists of Mogg War Marshal + Legion Loyalist, and I only swing with FSD. He trades the creatures. Turn 4 he plays Noble Hierarch and a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary, after fetching (he's taken 7 damage from his lands at this point). I'm able to kick a Goblin Bushwhacker and swing fearlessly with the Legion Loyalist Battalion trigger, and when he blocks with the 5/5 I let first strike damage resolve then bolt the Knight. Ajani Vengeant makes a maindeck appearance on turn 5 by -2'ing my Loyalist, but I have a hard cast OG Bushwhacker into Surge Whacker to get him exactly to 0. That game would have been a lot harder had I not killed the BoP turn 1, something I will ALWAYS recommend doing if possible. Game 2 is a silly affair - he mulls to 5 and keeps a Stomping Ground with nothing to cast. He rips the t2 BoP then my Goblin Guide reveals a Bonfire of the Damned, which we have a great laugh about as he kills my two FSDs on his draw step but has to leave behind my Goblin Guide. My Goblin Guide continues to reveal non-lands, and I even take a turn off after revealing Lightning Helix to Bolt the Bird. He died soon thereafter.
My impressions are that this deck is amazing when opponents don't play Kitchen Finks. I highly recommend it to anyone, and the Simian Spirit Guide is just a silly 1-of that replaces a land. I didn't draw it a single time in the four matches, so I don't have any data on if it's good or not, but I like the spiciness it provides. I was disillusioned from Modern after seeing Eldrazi Winter descend upon us, but now I have seen the light. I was lost, but now am found. Long live the horde.
Seriously, this deck is bonkers.
1. Try not to mulligan.
2. Really, don't do it.
3. You really think this is necessary?
4. Consider again.
5. If you've made it this far, I suppoooooose it's okay to mulligan.
I would keep a triple goblin grenade hand if it had a land. You just need to find 5 damage somewhere else in the game and you've probably got a win locked up. I keep every one lander that has at least two 1-drop creatures. I keep every 4 lander that has a 1-drop and a 2-drop, or a 4 lander with Devastating Summons. I mulligan every 5+ land hand, and can be convinced to keep a 0-lander if I have all 1-drops, I'm on the draw, and I've already mulliganed (so I have a scry). I keep every 2-lander. You couldn't name a 2-lander 7 I'd mull, because each possible hand has some kind of play I can be convinced to make.
My list:
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
1 Skullcrack
1 Devastating Summons
17 Mountain
1 Contested War Zone
SB:
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Forked Bolt
1 Shattering Spree
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Blood Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
(I also put in 1 Act of Treason and 1 Goblin Heelcutter in here but I'm not quite sure why and never brought them in)
As you can see, my list is basically SaffronOlive's, just without the Chieftains (still can't really get behind the card no matter how much damage I see it do). In their place I added the 4th Piledriver, 1 Devastating Summons, and 1 Skullcrack. I'm 100% sure every Bushwhacker deck should run a single Devastating Summons, but the Skullcrack was a pretty random decision while preparing the deck beforehand. I just wanted to have that extra burn spell that doubles as Finks hate in my mainboard, because oh my god I hate Kitchen Finks with all of my soul. Going forward, I plan on actually keeping in the Skullcrack until I'm presented with and inspired by another random fun-of.
Contested War Zone was a test card for this tournament, and after drawing it once and having it (potentially) screw up a curve out, I'm going to take it out. Red mana is just too valuable in a deck where you want to be kicking Goblin Bushwhackers.
Matches:
Round 1 - UW Eldrazi 2-0
I massacred the poor guy. He thought he could race me with hasty trampling 5/5s on turn three. I punished him game 1 with a turn 3 Devastating Summons -> Goblin Bushwhacker play with Legion Loyalist on board that took him to 2. He didn't have enough blockers/removal to survive the next swing. Game 2 I had another huge turn 3 swing that took him to 4. A Bolt plus the Mogg Fanatic on board was enough to kill him on turn 4.
Round 2 - Kiki-Chord 2-0
He played 2 Wall of Roots, I revealed a Path and a Chord off of Guide. Thankfully on one swing he blocked Goblin Guide instead of a 1/1 with his Wall so I was able to finish off the first one with a Bolt. I did not want to see him chord for a Finks or anything else backbreaking. Game 2 he kept the Forest Birds Birds hand without a second land against my super reactive hand of 3 Mogg Fanatics and a Forked Bolt. I Fanatic'ed the first birds with my entire turn 1, Forked Bolted the other and dropped a FSD, then beat his face in as he drew nonlands.
Round 3 - Merfolk 2-0
Goblin Piledriver is, uhh, pretty good in this matchup. He tore up game 1 against a Cursecatcher -> Silvergill draw by my opponent. Game 2 was closer as I did not draw the ol' driver of piles and he landed a Master of Waves. Thankfully my opponent blocked conservatively, hoping to win on the backswing, and I was able to Skullcrack (so relevant!) to kill off his Master of Waves and help me deal lethal burn.
Deck's great, really. The only changes I plan on making for next week are to cut the Contested War Zone and replace it with a Simian Spirit Guide, because fast mana is sweet sometimes but I also kinda want enough lands. It also has incidental value against this extra turns deck I played against because if they try to mill me by plussing Jace Beleren I can draw the Guide and cast Bolt. Super marginal, I know. With the sideboard, I plan on finding a replacement for Act of Treason/Goblin Heelcutter. I'm probably going to add a Zo-Zu the Punisher in my board as Scapeshift hate since there are a few Scapeshift decks who play around me. Perhaps Magmatic Chasm will be the other card I add.
As always, any thoughts on my list are appreciated, although I'm pretty certain this iteration is the perfect mix of consistent and blazingly powerful.
The sideboard is where my opinion definitely varies from yours. I've never felt that Dragon's Claw is that necessary. Burn is at a very poor spot in the meta at the moment to begin with, and I'm not quite sure how Goblins loses to Burn, since we deal more damage per card than they do. I'd probably throw in my personal favorite of 2 Pyrite Spellbombs in that slot, as it deals with the Kor Firewalkers that mess with us that can be brought in by Burn as well as other white decks.
I like the Forked Bolts. I'm the kind of player who loves to interact with my opponent. If I can interact with their face, all the better. Forked Bolt allows me to interact with faces and creatures at a very cheap rate, so I always rate the card highly.
The three Blood Moons seem a bit underpowered in this iteration of the deck. I like running the card when I run Simian Spirit Guides, as it's a lot better when you get to do unfair stuff a turn earlier than normal. For the purposes of this deck, I'd look into Molten Rains, as they perform a lot of the same function, oftentimes time walk-ing the opponent as well as dealing 2 damage.
Smash to Smithereens is a pretty sweet card. For a mono-red build, I think it's probably the best option. Back when I was on mono-red (and I'm heavily considering moving back to mono-red now), I would have run 3 Shattering Sprees as the entirety of my sideboard artifact hate. It gets around Chalice
I'm curious as to why you think you need 4 pieces of graveyard hate. Do you expect a lot of the meta to be GY oriented? I've been running singletons of Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage as my GY package, and honestly haven't really wished I had anymore. Each of these four GY cards do have their ups and downs, so depending on the styles of GY decks you think you'll see you may prefer Tormod's Crypts and Surgical Extractions, but I do question the quantity of hate. I recall seeing lists that ran the 4th Piledriver in the side, maybe cut an Extraction for that? Piledriver does really shine in both non-interactive matchups as well as blue decks like Merfolk.
Something I would try to avoid is putting in the Eidolons for this weekend. It may be correct; it may be the card that makes this deck that much better - however, it's such a tricky card to play with that when you're playing in a massive tournament like a Grand Prix, it's crucial that you're familiar with the ins and outs of your deck. Eidolon is something to try for another tournament.
Other cards I'd like to put on your radar without actually knowing if you'd like them or want them (or if I'd like them or want them):
Rending Volley, Magmatic Chasm, and Skullcrack. All very niche cards that I've found occasionally have very positive interactions with modern Goblins.
Best of luck in the GP this weekend! If you have any questions, I'd be happy to defend my choices further, or at least discuss them until you convince me I'm wrong
How many times must the point be made that Shattering Spree does in fact kill Chalice with its replicated copies? >:O
I've reverted to a list pretty close to hellakevin's No-Lords build with the banning of Twin. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/no-lords-goblins/ is the link for the lazy. I could be wrong to do so, but I'm going to explain some of my thoughts on that. Infect and Affinity certainly seem a lot better in the new meta, which makes me want to play Mogg Fanatics. Mogg Fanatics seem to be dropping off of the list of the surge decklists, as well as interaction in general. The only real differences with my current build are that I'm running 3 mainboard Forked Bolts. This may be a bit of an overreaction, but when I played a few Infect decks my last small tourney, I handily took both matches. Giving it some thought I think I'd rather have another instant speed spell, and may be replacing the third Forked Bolt for a Shard Volley. Increasing the amount of burn is never really bad against the field either, as it increases the number of top-deck outs in any matchup.
I just hate conceding the match to an excited Infect player, or just simply racing another deck and hoping I draw well enough to finish someone off. I suppose the contract I signed when I decided to play Goblins dictates that I should be more reckless, but I'm a sucker for interacting with my opponent, for better or for worse.
My question to the players who are exploring the surge deck - do you feel in control of your own destiny when you play the deck? How often does your opening hand fizzle but you still manage to pull out the match due to explosive top-decks? Do you feel like there are unwinnable matchups, and if you have experience playing strict No-Lords, are those matchups greater in number?
The question I want to ask now though, is what decks will rise in Twin's place. What decks that Twin beat consistently might start showing up again? What decks that beat Twin consistently no longer have it on their menu? How does all this affect Goblins? Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on the modern meta or anything so I can only attempt to answer these questions. My best guess is that random combo decks just got better, as well as other aggro decks. That being said, I feel as if Goblins are in a decent spot right now, as we can be just a little faster and leaner than other aggressive decks. I almost want to play Lightning Helixes now...