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  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Hmm, we can trigger Pain Magnification with Ajani Vengeant and go through a few layers from there. We certainly generate enough ressources to Donate Ajanai, destroy him with redirected Endbringer damage and search him up using Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Night Dealings. Ready to start again after all the triggers run out.

    So that's infinite.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Chaos Warp sneaked back in, should be Show and Tell.

    Donate instead of Scrambleverse is probably necessary to have any sort of 'hasty' creature targeting before combat generates the first counters on Five-Alarm Fire. That would be too late to go through the stages before Finest Hour.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Phelddagrif can also give the opponent some creatures that can be killed with Endbringer or Ion Storm to get Sangromancer life gain triggers. Another infinite. This one might be fixable by using another card to give the opponent life. But without creatures on the opponents side the Repercussion layer is lost... I don't know what to do there.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    So it's time to work under that endstep condition and leech life without using combat.

    Something like Ebony Charm could drain life and replace emrakul. We only need the exile cards from the graveyard effect sometime before the Possessed Aven stage and making copies of this spell with Izzet Guildmage would certainly be enough. But the third mode disqualifies this card. We can't have a target creature effect there.

    The other card I found for the slot is Suffer the Past. And I think it actually works Grin

    Cast with X=1 we can make copies as needed to remove cards from our graveyard. -1 and +1 conveniently doesn't change our life total. To get life from the opponent using that we need to put cards into their graveyard, but Mindshrieker can handle that part without problem.

    It really is a good thing that only cards that are actually removed count for the life drain. Otherwise we gould just use our infinite colorless to deal damage with this. Well, life loss actuallly. Would that make a difference for the viability? But the condition is there and that means we get 19 extra life to cast Necrologia with.

    So if the start works out after paying 7 life we can reach 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 32 -> 4.

    Edit: Some notes on Deedlit11's start procedure above:
    - After casting the Changeling Berserker and creating all the colorless we need interrupt the championing sequence and cast Surreal Memoir with a trigger that returns the original changeling to the battlefield on the stack.
    - Have the copy of Chaos Warp reveal Mirror of Fate.
    - After the Chaos Warps, resolve the changling return trigger to top off on Mirari tokens and champion March of the Machines at least temporarily.
    - While March is exiled crack both Mirror of Fate tokens to first exile the library and second put in Surreal Memoir + the six cards you want to Chaos Warp out next.
    - This allows the Necrologia for 1 life to create 3 copies from Mirari. The first of those copies is already able to retrieve Surreal Memoir.

    At that point I'm convinced the start is possible.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    I think Mind's Desire would work better than Promise of Power. But Garza Zol, Plague Queen would be a 6/6 thanks to the emblem, so you would only get 6 returns from the graveyard.

    I think I found another way to get ... -> X -> 4. Chaos Warp, Surreal Memoir, Necrologia supported by Mirari and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. It can only get started in the endstep, but then you should be able to recast the Necrologia using a Surreal Memoir copy. I'm not sure how much life payment would be needed to get started, but assuming a 7 card draw works, I guess we could get X to be about 13. Sadly, without being able to play a lot of stuff before combat I don't think we can leech life from the opponent.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Soo, is the opponent allowed to mulligan?

    If they go to 0 the Recurring Insight plan is foiled before the game even begins Frown
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Aww, I thought Karlov of the Ghost Council, Horizon Chimera, Consecrated Sphinx, Selvala's Enforcer would work, but Karlov is a white Spirit. Frown Even just a black Spirit is too much.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    With Endbringer on the battlefield tap an Endbringer token to draw Chaos Warp.
    Cast Chaos Warp to kill the original Endbringer (replacing the token),
    use a lot of the Psychic Battle triggers however you want - for example to generate more Psychic Battles,
    Resolve the Chaos Warp on some token to bring Endbringer back to the Battlefield.

    Pretty sure that's an infinite.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Hmmm, nice idea. But do the Driver of the Dead and Celestial Gatekeeper transitions work? I can't seem to find a way to get multiple tokens out of that <return something to the battlefield when this dies> trigger. Can you get that to work?

    <tap this to return something to the battlefield> and <target something when this dies> transitions seem fine to me.

    Edit: Nevermind, it works like this:
    - with Baron Sengir Bloodbond March triggers on the stack and one last Sengir token activate a Dauthi Cutthroat token to kill of the original and immediatly replace itself. Leave some Psychic Battle triggers on the stack.
    - Activate the sengir token to kill the original, replace itself and also kill the Driver of the Dead to bring Cutthroat back.
    - Use the Psychic Battle triggers to kill Cutthroat again. Create a second token.
    - Use a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Sengir back.
    - Activate the sengir token to kill the original, replace itself and also kill the Driver of the Dead to bring Cutthroat back.
    - Use a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Sengir back.

    So the 27 stages seem to work! Great find!
    (Replace Chaos Warp with Show and Tell to avoid Endbringer infinite.)

    I don't suppose we can get that compact enough to fit in 60 cards? ^^
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Us drawing the cards with zubera won't trigger donated Horizon Chimeras. Donating zuberas before killing them requires that we are able to refill te opponents library. Do you have a different layer setup in mind?

    Also the typical champion sequence to refresh tokens may involve a few changelings dying. Have you included those in the zubera death count? Although without a second Dual Nature I guess there are no extra tokens.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Spellshift is another card like Epic Experiment that has no effect when it finds itself, as long as we use Mirari to copy our spells instead of Djinn Illuminatus. The reason for that is that any Spellshift copy gets countered if it doesn't have a valid spell to target. But with Mirari casting Spellshift again just results in more Mirari triggers. Those can't be countered and only change into actual spells one at a time. There is never a time to slip more targets for spellshift onto the stack. So one cast of Spellshift can only flip and cast X (other) spells, where X is the number of counterable spells on the stack before you cast it. (Those can be prepared with Izzet Guildmage)

    It doesn't work in the current sideboard plan because Surreal Memoir can find it. It could replace the latter, but that just shifts the Elite Arcanist layer around.

    Another alternative to Surreal Memoir is Toshiro Umezawa into Donate. But that is also no change in layer count, since one Elite Arcanist layer is lost.

    Edit: Actuall the targeting for Toshiro would not work, since all Psychic Battles resolve before all Toshiros, so only one of the triggers can cast the desired spell. Ups.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Silumgar Sorcerer doesn't work because exploit allows us to sacrifice creatures high up in our stages, enabeling us to turn a single Bloodbond March trigger into a token from Mimic Vat, which is way too cheap. We need the death of our creatures to stay expensive.

    Edit: I thought about Lullmage Mentor as a fetchable card that could fill our counter needs in the 60 card deck, but I'm pretty sure we need to counter Seahunter in the first place if we want to create a hasty token that can do the fetching. If we don't counter, then all Bloodbond March triggers on Seahunter will be gone by the time it is on the battlefield and can die which means we would need to draw that one again.

    This would probably be an extra card if we can give Seahunter haste in some other way.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Hmm starting from that Surreal Memoir cast with just one Mirari:
    (Using 2, 4 and 6 dashes to indicate the use of a Surreal Memoir, Firemind's Foresight and Chaos Warp respectively.)

    Surreal Memoir
    -- grab Firemind's Foresight
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Urgent Exorcism
    ------ turn token into Mirror Gallery
    ------ turn token into Opalescence
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Words of Wisdom
    ------ turn token into Cowardice
    ------ turn token into Leyline of Anticipation
    Interlude: Use Urgent Exorcism's Cowardice trigger and the copy's Cowardice trigger to start a championing chain, getting a Dual Nature token and two tokens of other stuff. Hide Cowardice under a Changeling Berserker token.
    -- grab Firemind's Foresight
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Urgent Exorcism
    ------ turn token into Amulet of Vigor
    ------ turn token into Ali Baba
    ------ turn token into Psychic Battle. Get Cowardice back
    ------ turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RRR
    Interlude: Use Ali Baba to create Psychic Battle tokens. The last one creates Mirari tokens. If I am not mistaken this should get 5 Psychic Battles and 9 Miraris.
    Interlude: Use Urgent Exorcism to create Psychic Battle tokens. The last one creates Mirari tokens. So we get about 5*2^9 > 2000 Psychic Battles and about the same number of Miraris.
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Urgent Exorcism
    Interlude: Use Urgent Exorcism to create Psychic Battle tokens. The last one creates Mirari tokens. This creates about 2^2000 Miraris.
    ------ At this point we have more than enough Chaos Warp copies to be good to go.
    ... turn tokens into the deck, and start going through most of the combo.
    ... gain access to nonpermanents by using Night Dealings with hasty Viashino Fangtails.
    ------ We still have two Firemind's Foresight on the stack.
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Urgent Exorcism
    ---- grab Chaos Warp and Urgent Exorcism

    So it should be very possible to start after Words of Wisdom #3 with Mirari.

    Edit: Just saw Deedlit11's post. My sequence is a bit faster due to using Urgent Exorcism. But we get the same conclusion anyway Smile
    Edit2: Added some numbers. Those are more Miraris than I expected. ^^
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    The start might not be so bad.
    Let's see, the goal is to create Chaos Warp copies as soon as possible, for which we need red mana.

    Start: Flamekin Village, Mana Crypt, Chaos Warp, Changeling Berserker, Dual Nature, Mindshrieker, Words of Wisdom.
    Get Omniscience into play shufflinf Mana crypt back. Play Dual Nature and Mindshrieker.

    Cast Words of Wisdom #1. Draw Mana Crypt and Firemind's Foresight.
    Play Mana Crypt, mill emrakul.
    Cast firemind's to grab words of wisdom and chaos warp.
    cast chaos warp to turn mana crypt into itself.

    Cast Words of Wisdom #2. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Supply // Demand.
    Play Gideon, get an emblem.
    Mill Emrakul.
    Cast Demand to grab Firemind's
    Cast firemind's to grab words of wisdom and chaos warp.
    cast chaos warp to turn the mindshrieker token into March of the machines.

    Cast Changeling Berserker and get 'infinite' colorless. Finish the sequence with the original changeling championing a mana crypt token and the changeling token championing mana crypt.
    From here on just assume that emrakul is milled when necessary. (Also get a new mindshrieker token)

    Cast Words of Wisdom #3. Amulet of Vigor and Firemind's Foresight.
    Play Amulet of Vigor, get a token.
    Cast firemind's to grab words of wisdom and chaos warp.
    cast chaos warp to turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RR.

    Cast Words of Wisdom #4. Draw Djinn Iluminatus and Firemind's Foresight.
    Play Djinn, get a token.
    Cast firemind's to grab words of wisdom and chaos warp.
    cast chaos warp with two Djinn copies:
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RR.
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RR.
    - Turn the Changeling token into Opalescence.
    (To get the targets right use two replicate abilities with the original spell targeting the changling.)

    Cast Words of Wisdom #5. Surreal Memoir and Firemind's Foresight.
    Cast firemind's to grab words of wisdom and chaos warp.
    Cast chaos warp with four Djinn copies:
    - Turn Dual Nature into itself, getting a token.
    - Turn changeling into itself, use championshenanigans to get two tokens of amulet and djinn, and maybe some extra enchantments.
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RRR
    - Turn Flamekin Village into leyline of anticipation.
    - Turn Mana crypt into Flamekin Village. Get RRR (total:6R)
    Cast Memoir with 6 copies, grab fireminds, cast it, grab chaos warp and urgent exorcism.
    Cast Chaos Warp turning flamekin village into itself, get RRR.
    resolve another memoir, get chaos warp back.
    cast chaos warp with 3 copies. I edited this part if the sequence, so grab something useful with two of them and reset flamekin village twice to get 6R and have the whole thing fit Wink
    resolve another memoir getting back chaos warp.
    Cast Chaos warp, making 6 copies, the first replicate ability creates 4, the others 1 each. The original spell can target some token. It most likely wont resolve:
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself, get RRR
    - Turn some token into Ali Baba.
    - Turn some token into Psychic Battle.
    - Turn some token into Cowardice
    In response to the replicate ability activate ali baba, targeting the original changeling, and triggering cowardize as well as 3 psychic battles.
    bounce first, then replay, championing Dual Nature. From here on we want to create mostly tokens that stick around even after Dual Nature leaves.
    The tokens come into play and get sacrificed.
    resolve a psychic battle trigger to bounce changeling. In response to dual nature coming in play it again and champion psychic battle.
    resolve another psychic battle trigger to bounce changeling. Psychic Battle comes back. in response to the creation of tokens, play changeling again and champion dual nature.
    The changeling tokens come into play and get sacrificed.
    2 Psychic Battle tokens come into play.
    resolve the last psychic battle trigger to bounce changeling. In response to dual nature coming in play it again and champion Amulet of Vigor.
    Activate Ali Baba again, getting another cowardice and three psychic battle triggers.
    those get you to the same situation with two more psychic battles and two more amulets.
    Activate Ali Baba again, getting one more cowardice and 5 psychic battle triggers.
    That gets us two more amulets. and 4 more psychic battles.
    - reolve the replicate trigger. The copy targets changling, creating a cowardice and 9 Psychic battle triggers.
    use these to finish creating 10 more amulets, end the use the last psychic battle to redirect the chaos warp to flamekin village.
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself. Get 15R.
    Before the next replicate activate ali baba 15 times.
    Create more Psychic Battles each time getting to about 9*2^15 ~= 2^18.
    Resolve the replicate ability and with those psychic battle triggers create amulets.
    - Turn Flamekin Village into itself. Get about 2^18R

    There are still 4 memoir copies on the stack. The first can at least get Chaos Warp and cast it with 2^18 copies.
    This is surely enough to access the full combo and create lots of Horizon Chimeras. With the help of Nightdealings we can use the opponents starting life to get access to sorceries, like donate and even redraw Memoir.

    We are ready before Words of wisdom #6

    Edit: Changed the sequence to include Surreal Memoir, removing the need for one words of wisdom.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    This is the point where I realize that Dual Nature + Changeling Berserker + Precursor Golem creates an arbitrary amount of Golem tokens. Those can then be converted into arbitrary amounts of damage by getting precursor copies of chaos warp and following the usual combo. Frown

    That went unnoticed way too long. Enter the battlefield abilities are dangerous!
    Posted in: Magic General
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