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  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    I just had some fun implementing a layer system in the waterfall model. I can get 2^X with 5 clocks and then need 3 additional clocks for each layer. We'd need constant*layers^2 donations to make it work, so very much something we could potentially implement at the start. (Though limited by creature types)

    You can test the programs and see them in action on http://nethack4.org/esolangs/waterfall/. There is a nice interpreter at the bottom of the page.

    Exponentiation program, use 2n as input for the last clock to get roughly 6*2^n:

    [[1000,5,5,5,5,5],
    [1,2,2,6,0,2],
    [3,2,2,0,4,2],
    [2,0,4,4,2,2],
    [2,4,0,2,4,0],
    [14,0,0,0,0,0]]


    Tetration program, use 2n as input for the last clock to get 2^^n:

    [[10000,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8],
    [1,2,2,2,6,6,0,2,2],
    [3,2,2,2,0,0,4,2,2],
    [3,2,2,2,0,0,2,4,2],
    [2,0,4,2,4,2,2,2,2],
    [2,0,2,4,2,4,2,2,2],
    [2,4,0,2,2,4,4,0,2],
    [2,2,4,0,4,0,2,4,0],
    [4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]]

    (use 4,4 as input for the last 2 clocks to get a long run that you can still watch to the end)


    For an extra layer I need 3 additional clocks:
    - 1 clock for the layer counter
    - 1 clock for the transfer state that will move the output to the layer counter below it
    - 1 clock that will be another copy of the output. I found that necessary to make the state switch after emptying the output work correctly
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    The janky life stage is basically our hyperstage, except that the substages don't work. So for 3 life you put the hyperstage transition on the stack to generate X mana, turn that into a layer of Bloodbond March triggers on Elvish Spirit Guide. Later you resolve the transition to gain the life back. Then you put it on the stack again, but get a bigger layer, thanks to more Sea Gate Stormcaller triggers.

    This requires the ability to put a transition on the stack again without the instants and using just Bloodbond March triggers of Elvish Spirit Guide. We might get enough mana for that from Tolarian Academy and the other lands. But it is pretty tough.

    We can't use a creature bounce layer since we need to return the Elvish Spirit Guide from the graveyard to generate green mana and without black from the instants we can't counter it to get useful Bloodbond March triggers. We also can't keep Mobilize on the stack from the lower transition to get colored mana, since the land won't be animated and we can't mix any Siege of Towers between the Mobilize copies.


    Honestly, I think getting BB calculations (or some smaller useful Waterfall program) would require less extra cards.

    Edit: And I just noticed that the janky stage would be completely impossible now that we get all our black mana from an instant.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Backfire won't add a layer because on every iteration but the first the creature that deals damage will already be gone from the battlefield from all the Worldpurges. So we can't enchant it to create a bigger number of Backfire triggers.


    The Justice layer should work out though. As long as we make sure the damage is dealt from red creatures under the correct persons control. For the discard to draw sequence that should be fine as we can use Brallin, Skyshark Rider to deal damage and Night Dealings/Angelheart Vial to draw, depending on where the damage ends up/who discards.

    For the attack to discard sequence we need to find a working red source. Unfortunately Awaken the Blood Avatar can't be used with the combat layers because the token it creates has haste. It can be blocked and start a BB computation without clearing our side of the battlefield. Mage Slayer looks like it would work.


    So we attack with a equipped red creature. It deals >3 damage to the opponent X times. Every time Justice deals >3 damage to us X times. Every time we have to discard a card X times. Every time Brallin damages the opponent X times. Every time Justice damages us X times.

    To me it looks like that sequence works, and we end in Angelheart Vial.


    So we get 2 extra layers from Justice. That was a great idea! Too bad about the Backfire, I guess we'll keep World at War again.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Mirari would go infinite with the transition sorceries. A single Acorn Harvest could trigger a copy of Worldpurge, a copy of Eureka, Worldpurge and Eureka. Getting 6 life back.


    Burnt Offering looks good! Is there any way we can turn an extra card slot into another layer? If not, then we can use it to improve the start. For example Master Skald could give us access to all the artifacts and enchantments we cannot draw. That means we could potentially go through the entire hyperstage including BB calculations in the first main phase. Though I will wait for a while before I try to work out the start with that.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    hmm, using Dual Nature like that is a great idea! I haven't thought about that.

    Currently the problem would be that Sea Gate Stormcaller ended up in the graveyard and creating The Scarab God copies of it doesn't take advantage of Dual Nature. Dual Nature also doesn't help to create more Panharmonicons, so I don't see how to turn it into more copies of Mobilize on the next flashback.

    To make it work we need Sea Gate Stormcaller in hand. That is probably doable, but requires some shuffling around. We need to have Sea Gate Stormcaller triggers ready when we flashback Acorn Harvest, since without Mobilize copies we only get the one green back that we payed for the flashback.

    So either we don't use the Stormcaller before that or we use an extra card in hand for Elvish Spirit Guide and bounce it once. Room in hand after Worldpurge is also tight if we want to sneak in extra Stormcaller triggers from that.


    For freeing up the extra card slot I was thinking about skipping Wormfang Behemoth. Most of the cards can be put on the stack before we cast Eureka and Worldpurge, so exiling the hand might be unnecessary. Of course that makes it impossible to react to some triggers, which loses some Panharmonicon copies at the start.

    So we'll need to make some early changes and go through everything again to make sure we don't lose too much to get started. But getting that extra layer seems doable Smile


    Edit:
    Yep, I've successfully modified my start to include the Dual Nature layer:
    Play Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Tolarian Academy, tap them. (3u, 1w, 4 cards)
    Play Show and Tell, put Omniscience into play. (1u, 2 cards)
    Play Channel, convert 19 life into mana. (1u, 19c, 1 card)
    Play Prosperity with X=19. (19 cards)

    Play Vedalken Orrery. (18 cards)
    Play Opalescence. (17 cards)
    Play Dual Nature. Leave 2 Dual Nature triggers on the stack. (16 cards)
    Play Mirrorworks. (15 cards)
    Play Panharmonicon. Leave 2 Mirrorwork triggers on the stack (14 cards)
    Play Eureka, leave it on the stack. (13 cards)
    Play Worldpurge, leave it on the stack. (12 cards)
    Play Wormfang Behemoth, let it exile your hand. (11 cards exiled)
    Resolve Worldpurge. It bounces Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Tolarian Academy, Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Mirrorworks, Panharmonicon, Opalescence, Dual Nature and Wormfang Behemoth. Shuffle Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire and Wormfang Behemoth into the library.
    Wormfang Behemoth trigger returns the exiled cards to hand. (18 cards)
    Resolve Eureka, put Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Tolarian Academy, Blighted Steppe, Spellweaver Helix, Rings of Brighthearth, Opalescence, Mirrorworks and Vault of Whispers into play. Leave the Mirrorworks trigger for Vault of Whispers on the stack. (9 cards)
    Play Panharmonicon. Leave 2 Mirrorwork triggers on the stack. (1 PH, 8 cards)
    Play Dual Nature, get 2 copies (1 PH, 7 cards)
    Play Myr Battlesphere, get 6 copies, create 56 myr tokens. (1 PH, 6 cards)
    Tap Tolarian Academy for mana. We have 69 artifacts. (1 PH, 6 cards, 69u)
    Pay for the 4 Mirrorworks(Panharmonicon) and the Mirrorworks(Vault of Whispers) triggers. (5 PH, 6 cards, 59u)
    Resolve the 2 Dual Nature triggers. We now have 5 Dual Natures. (5 PH, 6 cards, 59u)


    Play The Scarab God. Get 30 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 5 cards, 59u)
    Play Master Transmuter. Get 30 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 4 cards, 59u)
    Play Night Dealings. Get 30 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 3 cards, 59u)
    Play Sea Gate Stormcaller kicked. Get 30 Dual Nature copies. Each triggers 6 times for a total of 186 delayed triggers, 6 of which are kicked. (5 PH, 2 cards, 54u)
    Play Gravebreaker Lamia. Put the 6 etb triggers on the stack first, then the 30 Dual Nature triggers. Resolve 6 Dual Nature triggers, resolving the 30 etb's for the first 5 copies. This leaves us with 7 cards in the library. We fetch 5 of those later, so we can't resolve more etbs to get more Dual Nature copies yet. (5 PH, 1 card, 54u)

    Exile Elvish Spirit Guide from hand. Save the green mana for later. I just don't want to keep track of cards in hand anymore ^^ (5 PH, 54u)

    Tap one Vault of Whispers to activate The Scarab God and get a copy of Marchesa's Smuggler. (5 PH, 51u)
    Tap the other Vault of Whispers to flashback Mystical Teachings and fetch Battle Hymn. (5 PH, 51u)


    Play Battle Hymn. Get 192 copies from Sea Gate Stormcaller triggers. (5 PH, 51u)
    Resolve the first Battly Hymn copy. We have 201 creatures. (5 PH, 51u, 201r)


    Use the mana to create more Panharmonicons: Marchesa's Smuggler gives haste to a Master Transmuter. Master transmuter returns Panharmonicon to hand. Replay it and pay for Mirrorworks triggers.
    1st time costs 2u,1r,1c for 5 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (10 PH, 49u, 189r)
    2nd time costs 2u,1r,1c for 10 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (20 PH, 47u, 167r)
    3rd time costs 2u,1r,1c for 20 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (40 PH, 45u, 125r)
    4th time costs 2u,1r,1c for 40 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (80 PH, 43u, 43r)
    5th time costs 2u,1r,1c for 80 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for 36 of them. (116 PH, 4u, 2r)

    Use Marchesa's Smuggler + Master Transmuter to bounce Myr Battlesphere. Dual Nature exiles the token copies. (116 PH, 2u)
    Play Myr Battlesphere. Don't pay for the Mirrorworks triggers. Dual Nature triggers 5*117 times for a total of 586 Myr Battlespheres entering the battlefield. Each one triggers its etb 117 times and we create 274284 Myrs. (116 PH, 2u)


    Resolve a Battle Hymn copy. The Number of creatures is big enough that I'm going to start estimating. The last step gave us over 270000 creatures. Let's go with that. (116 PH, 2u, >270000r)

    Use Marchesa's Smuggler + Master Transmuter to bounce Vault of Whispers. Put it back into play. Pay for 1 copy. (116 PH, >270000r)
    Tap the Vault of Whispers to activate Night Dealings. Find Mox Sapphire. (116 PH, >270000r)
    Play Mox Sapphire. Pay for some copies. Tap them. We need roughly 2*log_2(red mana) of them so about 40... not enough to make a dent in our red mana estimate. (116 PH, ~40u, >270000r)

    Now turn the red mana into Panharmonicon copies again. We need to pay 2r per copy plus some overhead to generate new triggers, plus some overhead overhead to generate more blue mana and untapped Master Transmuters. The overhead is roughly at log_2 of the red mana, so we can keep ignoring that for the estimate.
    After spending most of the mana we have more than 135000 Panharmonicons. (>135000 PH, 4u, 2r)
    Use the last mana to bounce and replay Myr Battlesphere. We get (1+DN*PH)*(1+PH)*4 Myrs. (>135000 PH, 2u)


    Resolve another Battle Hymn. If we have X Panharmonicons we get >20*X^2 mana.
    Turn the mana into more Panharmonicons. We get more than >20*X^2 copies. So 20*135000^2 > 4^2*135000^2 = 540000^2 > (2^19)^2 = 2^38

    Repeat for the other 190 Battle Hymn copies on the stack. Get a huge amount of anything we can create here: Panharmonicons, other artifacts, red mana, blue mana, black mana and white mana (Night Dealings can fetch Mox Pearl)
    How much? We more than square the number of Panharmonicons 190 more times, so we get more than (2^38)^(2^190) = 2^(38*2^190) > 2^(2^5*2^190) = 2^(2^195) > 2^^5


    Specifically we turn most of those resources into Panharmonicon copies, leaving just enough operating mana/artifacts to get through the next few steps.

    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Riftsweeper. Put the exiled creatures and Mystical Teachings back into the library.
    Resolve a few Gravebreaker Lamia triggers to put those cards into the graveyard again. Leave the rest on the stack, we still don't want to empty our library.
    Flashback Mystical Teachings and fetch the second Battly Hymn.

    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Temur Sabertooth.
    Use the one green mana we still have saved to activate it, getting a Rings of Brighthearth trigger.
    Pay for the trigger to bounce Sea Gate Stormcaller.
    Play Sea Gate Stormcaller and get 2^^5 delayed triggers.
    Resolve the Temur Sabertooth ability to bounce Sea Gate Stormcaller again. We can do that because the ability doesn't target. Keep it in hand for later.

    Cast Battle Hymn, getting 2^^5 copies.

    Again each copy more than squares the number of creatures. We end up with more than 2^(2^(2^^5)) = 2^^7 artifacts.


    This time we turn most of those resources into Rings of Brighthearth copies, leaving just enough operating mana to get through the next few steps.

    Sacrifice Blighted Steppe, get more than 2^^7 Ring of Brighthearth triggers for the ability.

    Pay for one of the Ring of Brighthearth triggers and get 2^^7 life.

    Bounce and replay Spellweaver Helix. Exile Siege of Towers, Mobilize and Acorn Harvest.
    Play Sea Gate Stormcaller. Get >2^^7 delayed triggers.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Wood Elves. Find Stomping Ground and pay 2 life to let it come into play untapped. Tap for green. (We have now fetched everything we needed from the library)
    Flashback Acorn Harvest.
    Spellweaver Helix triggers. When resolving cast Mobilize first. The Sea Gate Stormcallers trigger and wait to be put on the stack. Then cast Siege of Towers and pay the replicate cost once. Replicate triggers and waits to be put on the stack. After that we finish resolving Spellweaver Helix and put the new triggers on the stack. Order them so that we resolve replicate first.
    Resolve replicate and turn Stomping Ground into a creature.
    Resolve the >2^^7 Mobilizes to untap Stomping Ground and tap for r/g every time.


    Use 2 mana to bounce Dual Nature. Leave the token destruction triggers on the stack.
    Replay Dual Nature. All Dual Natures trigger many times. The important part is that we more than double the amount of Dual Nature tokens once we resolve all the token creation trigger.
    Repeat the last two steps X times to get more than 2^X Dual Natures. Leave just enough operating mana to get through the few steps until more mana is generated.
    Bounce and replay Sea Gate Stormcaller to get 2^X delayed triggers.
    Let the destructive Dual Nature triggers resolve. We lose all the created creature tokens, but those are not important anymore.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Riftsweeper. Put the exiled Acorn Harvest and Riftsweeper back into the library.
    Bounce and replay Gravebreaker Lamia to put the library back into the graveyard.
    Pay 3 life to flashback Acorn Harvest again, triggering a cast of Mobilize with 2^X copies, giving us 2^X mana.

    Repeat the last few steps. First repeat gets us to 2^(2^^7)=2^^8, second to 2^(2^^8)=2^^9. After 2^^7 repeats we get 2^^(2^^7). In general we can turn X life into 2^^X mana/artifacts/creatures/enchantments.


    Specifically we want creatures because we still have 2^^7 Rings of Brighthearth copies for Blighted Steppes ability on the stack. Resolve them one at a time, each time turning X life into 2^^X creatures. The first gets more than 2^^(2^^7) > 2^^(2^^4) = 2^^^4. The second gets 2^^(2^^^4) = 2^^^5. So we can turn X Blighted Steps abilities into 2^^^X artifacts/creatures/enchantments/mana/life


    After all 2^^7 copies of the Blighted Steppes ability we have more than 2^^^(2^^7) of anything we can produce. It is time to get access to the real combo.

    Use The Scarab God to create a copy of Moraug, Fury of Akoum.
    Bounce Vault of Whispers and put it back onto the battlefield, triggering Moraug, Fury of Akoum 2^^^(2^^7) times thanks to Panharmonicon copies.

    Exile Prosperity with Spellweaver Helix and put it in the library with a Riftsweeper copy. Also put in the Riftsweeper and anything else we want to draw.
    Go to combat with a hasty Myr Battlesphere, attack and damage the opponent with the trigger. Get some counters on Night Dealings.
    Activate Night Dealings with X=1 to grab Prosperity. (Get mana from Vault of Whisper and Mox Sapphire copies)
    Create a Sea Gate Stormcaller copy to get 2^^^(2^^7) delayed triggers.
    Cast Prosperity with X=1 to draw 1 card 2^^^(2^^7) times.


    I have no doubt we can access the full combo from there Smile
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    I think I found a start that gets us 2^^2^^7 combats:

    Using The Scarab God and Mystical Teachings to access more cards. Fitting in a Blighted Steppe sacrifice, getting X copies of the ability, each giving us X life. 3 life give us X mana using Spellweaver Helix and the transition sorceries. We can convert mana into more of other stuff, i.e. 2 mana -> 1 Panharmonicon -> 1 additional Sea Gate Stormcaller trigger

    Play Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Tolarian Academy, tap them. (3u, 1w, 4 cards)
    Play Show and Tell, put Omniscience into play. (1u, 2 cards)
    Play Channel, convert 19 life into mana. (1u, 19c, 1 card)
    Play Prosperity with X=19. (19 cards)

    Play Vedalken Orrery. (18 cards)
    Play Mirrorworks. (17 cards)
    Play Panharmonicon. Leave 2 Mirrorwork triggers on the stack (16 cards)
    Play Opalescence. (15 cards)
    Play Dual Nature, get 2 copies. (14 cards)
    Play Sea Gate Stormcaller. 3 Dual Natures trigger 2 times each. 7 Sea Gate Stormcaller enter the battlefield, each triggering 2 times. Create 14 delayed triggers. (13 cards)
    Play Gravebreaker Lamia. Leave 1 Dual Nature Trigger and 2 etb triggers on the stack. Resolve 10 etb triggers from the copies and put 10 cards into the graveyard. Among them: Mystical Teachings, Riftsweeper, Siege of Towers, Mobilize, 2x Acorn Harvest and Wood Elves. (12 cards)
    Play Eureka, leave it on the stack. (11 cards)
    Play Worldpurge, leave it on the stack. (10 cards)
    Play Wormfang Behemoth, let it exile your hand. (9 cards exiled)
    Resolve Worldpurge. It bounces Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Tolarian Academy, Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Mirrorworks, Panharmonicon, Opalescence, Dual Nature, Sea Gate Stormcaller, Gravebreaker Lamia and Wormfang Behemoth. Shuffle Mox Pearl, Mox Sapphire, Sea Gate Stormcaller, Gravebreaker Lamia and Wormfang Behemoth into the library.
    Wormfang Behemoth trigger returns the exiled cards to hand. (16 cards)
    Resolve Eureka, put Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Tolarian Academy, Mirrorworks, Opalescence, Vault of Whispers, Spellweaver Helix, Rings of Brighthearth and Blighted Steppe into play. (7 cards)
    Resolve the Gravebreaker Lamia triggers. Put Gravebreaker Lamia and Sea Gate Stormcaller into the graveyard. (7 cards)
    Play Panharmonicon. Leave 2 Mirrorwork triggers on the stack. (1 PH, 6 cards)
    Play Dual Nature, get 2 copies (1 PH, 5 cards)
    Play Myr Battlesphere, get 6 copies, create 56 myr tokens. (1 PH, 4 cards)
    Tap Tolarian Academy for mana. We have 69 artifacts. (1 PH, 4 cards, 69u)
    Pay for the 4 Mirrorworks(Panharmonicon) triggers. (5 PH, 4 cards, 61u)

    Tap Vault of Whispers to flashback Mystical Teachings and fetch Battly Hymn. (5 PH, 5 cards, 56u)

    Play The Scarab God. Get 18 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 4 cards, 56u)
    Play Marchesa's Smuggler. Get 18 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 3 cards, 56u)
    Play Master Transmuter. Get 18 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 2 cards, 56u)
    Play Night Dealings. Get 18 Dual Nature copies. (5 PH, 1 card, 56u)

    Play Battle Hymn. Get 14 copies from Sea Gate Stormcaller triggers. (5 PH, 56u)
    Resolve the first Battly Hymn copy. We have 143 creatures. (5 PH, 56u, 143r)


    Use the mana to create more Panharmonicons: Marchesa's Smuggler gives haste to a Master Transmuter. Master transmuter returns Panharmonicon to hand. Replay it and pay for Mirrorworks triggers.
    1st time costs 2u,1r,1c for 5 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (10 PH, 54u, 131r)
    2nd time costs 2u,1r,1c for 10 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (20 PH, 52u, 109r)
    3rd time costs 2u,1r,1c for 20 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (40 PH, 50u, 67r)
    4th time costs 2u,1r,1c for 40 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for them. (80 PH, 16u, 17r)
    5th time costs 2u,1r,1c for 80 Mirrorworks triggers. Pay for 22 of them. (102 PH, 4u, 3r)

    Use Marchesa's Smuggler + Master Transmuter to bounce Myr Battlesphere. Dual Nature exiles the token copies. (102 PH, 2u, 1r)
    Play Myr Battlesphere. Don't pay for the Mirrorworks triggers. Dual Nature triggers 3*103 times for a total of 310 Myr Battlespheres entering the battlefield. Each one triggers its etb 103 times and we create 127720 Myrs. (102 PH, 2u, 1r)


    Resolve a Battle Hymn copy. The Number of creatures is big enough that I'm going to start estimating. The last step gave us over 128000 creatures. Let's go with that. (102 PH, 2u, >128000r)

    Use Marchesa's Smuggler + Master Transmuter to bounce Vault of Whispers. Put it back into play. Pay for 1 copy. (102 PH, >128000r)
    Tap the Vault of Whispers to activate Night Dealings. Find Mox Sapphire. (102 PH, >128000r)
    Play Mox Sapphire. Pay for some copies. Tap them. We need roughly 2*log_2(red mana) of them so about 36... not enough to make a dent in our red mana estimate. (102 PH, >128000r, ~36u)

    Now turn the red mana into Panharmonicon copies again. We need to pay 2r per copy plus some overhead to generate new triggers, plus some overhead overhead to generate more blue mana and untapped Master Transmuters. The overhead is roughly at log_2 of the red mana, so we can keep ignoring that for the estimate.
    After spending most of the mana we have 64000 Panharmonicons. (>64000 PH, 4u, 2r)
    Use the last mana to bounce and replay Myr Battlesphere. We get (1+DN*PH)*(1+PH)*4 Myrs. (>64000 PH, 2u)


    Resolve another Battle Hymn. If we have X Panharmonicons we get >12*X^2 mana.
    Turn the mana into more Panharmonicons. We get more than >6*X^2 copies. So 6*64000^2 > 2^2*64000^2 = 128000^2 > (2^16)^2 = 2^32

    Repeat for the other 12 Battle Hymn copies on the stack. Get a huge amount of anything we can create here: Panharmonicons, other artifacts, red mana, blue mana, black mana and white mana (Night Dealings can fetch Mox Pearl)
    How much? We more than square the number of Panharmonicons 12 more times, so we get more than (2^32)^(2^12) = 2^(32*2^12) > 2^(2^4*2^12) = 2^(2^16) = 2^^5


    Specifically we turn most of those resources into Panharmonicon copies, leaving just enough operating mana to get through the next few steps.

    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Sea Gate Stormcaller. Get >2^^5 delayed triggers.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Gravebreaker Lamia. Leave the triggers on the stack.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Riftsweeper. Put the exiled creatures and Mystical Teachings back into the library.
    Resolve a few Gravebreaker Lamia triggers to put those cards into the graveyard again. Leave the rest on the stack, we don't want to empty our library yet.
    Flashback Mystical Teachings and fetch the second Battly Hymn.
    Cast Battle Hymn, getting 2^^5 copies.

    Again each copy more than squares the number of creatures. We end up with more than 2^(2^(2^^5)) = 2^^7 artifacts.


    This time we turn most of those resources into Rings of Brighthearth copies, leaving just enough operating mana to get through the next few steps.
    Sacrifice Blighted Steppe, get more than 2^^7 Ring of Brighthearth triggers for the ability.

    Pay for one of the Ring of Brighthearth triggers and get 2^^7 life.
    Bounce and replay Spellweaver Helix. Exile Siege of Towers, Mobilize and Acorn Harvest.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Sea Gate Stormcaller. Get >2^^7 delayed triggers.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Wood Elves. Find Stomping Ground and pay 2 life to let it come into play untapped. Tap for green.
    Flashback Acorn Harvest.
    Spellweaver Helix triggers. When resolving cast Mobilize first. The Sea Gate Stormcallers trigger and wait to be put on the stack. Then cast Siege of Towers and pay the replicate cost once. Replicate triggers and waits to be put on the stack. After that we finish resolving Spellweaver Helix and put the new triggers on the stack. Order them so that we resolve replicate first.
    Resolve replicate and turn Stomping Ground into a creature.
    Resolve the >2^^7 Mobilizes to untap Stomping Ground and tap for r/g every time.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Gravebreaker Lamia. Leave the triggers on the stack.
    Activate The Scarab God to create a copy of Riftsweeper. Put all the exiled sorceries and creatures back into the library.
    Resolve the Gravebreaker Lamia triggers, putting the entire library into the graveyard. (We can't fail to find a card, so unless we get rid of most Panharmonicons the library is now empty. But I don't think that is a problem.)
    Turn the mana into more copies of artifacts and creatures again.

    Repeat for all of the life we have, each time roughly doubling the number of artifacts. We end up with more than 2^(2^^7) = 2^^8 creatures.
    Then we resolve the next copy of the Blighted Steppes ability, this time gaining 2^^8 life, which we turn into 2^(2^^8) = 2^^9 creatures.

    After all 2^^7 copies of the Blighted Steppes ability we have more than 2^^(2^^7) artifacts/life/mana. We can also create The Scarab God copies of our creatures in the graveyard.


    Create a copy of Moraug, Fury of Akoum.
    Bounce Vault of Whispers and put it back onto the battlefield, triggering Moraug, Fury of Akoum 2^^2^^7 times thanks to Panharmonicon copies.

    Exile Prosperity with Spellweaver Helix and put it in the library with a Riftsweeper copy. (also put in the Riftsweeper and anything else we want to draw.)
    Go to combat with a hasty Myr Battlesphere, attack and damage the opponent with the trigger. Get some counters on Night Dealings.
    Activate Night Dealings with X=1 to grab Prosperity. (Get mana from Vault of Whisper and Mox Sapphire copies)
    Create a Sea Gate Stormcaller copy to get 2^^2^^7 delayed triggers.
    Cast Prosperity with X=1 to draw 1 card 2^^2^^7 times.


    I have no doubt we can access the full combo from there Smile
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Yeah, that should work. Nice Smile
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    hmm, I think we need to keep another creature around: Without a nontoken Elf or Berserker Skemfar Avenger can't draw any cards, and we need that effect to turn the Toralf stage output into blue mana for the Octopus stage.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    I think the key play to address the blue mana issue for the start is casting Worldpurge with Eureka on the stack. Getting Omniscience back into play immediately and also resetting Tolarian Academy and Mox Sapphire. I haven't gone through it further, but it seems to me that it should be possible to continue.

    One option for the start is to use Vault of Whispers instead of Dark Ritual for our black mana. That can be bounced and replayed by Master Transmuter but not donated with Fractured Identity and might help out with triggering Moraug, Fury of Akoum.

    If mana at the start turns out to be the bottleneck, then we can play a second Battle Hymn instead of Brightstone Ritual.


    For Eureka, Radiant Fountain and Stomping Ground: I don't think you can gain the life before paying for Stomping grounds. The payment on that is part of a replacement effect that happens during Eureka's resolution. Radiant Fountain's lifegain is a trigger and goes on the stack after Eureka finishes resolving.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Oh, nice idea for using Mox Pearl to generate white and getting us started! That should work.

    Tectonic Giant would go infinite because the opponent can target it with a Fractured Identity from a donated Spellweaver Helix. But Myr Battlesphere doesn't have that problem and gets us that layer.


    A lifelinker would have no problem keeping the opponent alive. The Kaervek's Spite always resolves after our BB computations, because those get triggered from the sacrifice cost when we put the spell on the stack.

    That means we can replace Platinum Emperion and Watcher in the Mist with Gravebreaker Lamia, saving another card.


    Adding World at War we would get BB_{w^2+11}(BB_{w^2+10}(X)) damage. X would be rather small because it's the number of Moraug, Fury of Akoum triggers we get in the first main phase. That means we only get that one big draw from the first Prosperity to try and get that as high as possible, while also making sure that we can continue to draw the deck once we go to the combats.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Yes, we still need the mountain, but Marchesa's Smuggler in particular is still really useful. To make it work we must not allow the opponent to activate is, so Mox Ruby has to be taken out. We need Mana Crypt for the start again. In addition we now need red mana to give Master Transmuter haste, so Dark Ritual is not enough to restore progress after a Worldpurge. So we also need to add a Battle Hymn for that.

    (I think it is still impossible to use the same instant card to catch up on progress after Worldpurge and BB-Computations, so this can't replace the Brightstone Ritual.)

    So by using Marchesa's Smuggler instead of Anger we lose a card slot. But now all our hasty creatures can't be blocked! That means we can't use combat damage to trigger Arcbond. That opens up layers from additional combats.

    3 cards over, but with 2 additional layers. So what is the most card efficient layer sequence we can find?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Nah, we can use the sacrifice Gyruda + Luminous Broodmoth thingy for that.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Great work on the start! Looking good.

    For further optimizations to the cycle we could probably always create Thaumaeidolons and just transform a few untapped thaumas into Cogwork Archivist. Then we can just fetch Skemfar Avenger with Gyruda when we want to trigger new Thaumamasters instead of using an entire "enter as anything" trigger for that.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Such a creature wouldn't get copies from the delayed Sea Gate Stormcaller triggers, so it would not be able to replace Dark Ritual. The layers would never get any bigger unless we go through another transition.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    To get mana from Stomping Ground we need to untap it with Mobilize. That can only be done after putting a new transition on the stack. So in the world without Worldfire and repeated Dark Rituals we don't get black mana after resolving a Worldpurge. Since we need black to get useful Bloodbond March triggers with Deathgrip we can not refresh our normal stages properly. We can only use the transitions to refresh Bloodbond March layers.
    Posted in: Magic General
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