For burn I'd actually cut the forge-tender and add another voice of resurgence. Basically, you're gonna try and value them out, so you need to have something that can trade with their creatures or block a couple times by turn two. I'd cut an E wit and 2x viziers, bring in 2x voice, and the courser. maybe cut another mana dork to add in the eidolon of rhetoric, if you're on the play.
Tron, you need those unified wills and kataki can be disruptive if you get him early enough. so cut 2x tracker, 1x scooze, maybe 1x path. Reasoning for the path cut is when you really need it you're almost never at a point when you can win on the crack back.
Burn:
- 1 Eternal Witness
- 2 Vizier of Remedies
+ 2 Voice of Resurgence
+ 1 Courser of Kruphix
I haven't ran into too many valakut decks tbh, I know killing the creatures would be bad, but I still feel like blanking scapeshift #1 or #2 is decent enough. If we can stall long enough Knight of the Reliquary can block the titan and they will run out of mountains eventually.
I've been meaning to cut the ooze in the board, I don't think I need it. leyline also comes in against valakut decks, and usually I side out retreats if I need coralhelm(except vs valakut)
I consider all the 2 drops flex spots, since what you play in them depends on the meta and what is in your sideboard. Main is pretty stock, still playing 2x Retreat to Coralhelm. I know a fair amount of people don't like it any more but the only time I've been unhappy drawing retreat is when I have another on board. I think it mostly depends on when you side them out. 7 dorks, 23 lands, in concession to burn and mardu.
I want to throw my two cents in on Nimble Obstructionist: It's an amazing card. I've got a weird meta, there's no graveyard decks atm. One person has living end built, but they like playing storm or standard. Therefore, my list only has the Scavenging Ooze in the sideboard and I threw two obstructionists and a Vendilion Clique. I'll update this post with my list sometime tomorrow
You side out the quellers against grindy deck and burn. Burn is obvious, it can be good but usually only if you get a Searing Blaze or something similar. You can keep them in against grindy decks like jund, but then you use them as a EoT flash creature, not a soft counter.
As convulted as I can make the explanation. You side them out when it doesn't cause your opponent to waste extra resources killing the queller. In burn, usually it doesn't present enough of a clock and doesn't stop enough damage. Jund, it's great when you stop a Lili from landing, but usually it'll just get pushed, bolted, or decayed. Keep them in against control, but only use them when you see a board wipe or Cryptic Command.
I keep all CoCos in when I board teeg in. the reason why is if they need teeg gone to cast something specifically, they'll remove teeg. After they remove teeg, cast the CoCo or two you had rotting in your hand. Obviously getting Teeg off a CoCo does feel super sweet, but remember that if the 4 CMC spell is already on the stack Teeg won't do anything about it.
I honestly don't like the single burrenton. I guess I never played it against dredge, but I've only liked it the 1-2 times I landed it against living end. Against Burn it just seems like you need it early to block otherwise you'll get skullcrack'd when you sac it. I'd switch it out with another Nissa. I like the nissa, I tried a list with two of her in the main putting the retreat in the board. I don't think that was the correct choice, otherwise I'd post the list.
I haven't run into merfolk for a while, but I used to have a Ghostly Prison or two in my board to deal with them. As it turns out, Reflector Mage, Spell Queller, and Qasali Pridemage are your best cards. Qasali to blow up Aether Vial. It's a completely valid play to play and immediately sack Qasali T2 if you can to get rid of the vial. Without vial, they are not nearly fast enought to keep up with Collected Company.
I agree, I think that I'd switch back to 7 dorks with 4 lotus cobra. I think I'd start with 2 reflector mages, putting in 2 scoozes. 2 cliques and the other 2 mages in the board. I think 2 courser might not be necessary, I like 2 against burn and zoo but that's about it.
Regular tron I keep the combo in, usually throw in Stony Silence and Ghost Quarter if they're in my board, and the Surgical Extraction. Basically you need to get knight quickly to keep them off tron, but you also have to have an aggressive hand. With one ghost quarter and a decently fast hand you can kill them decently fast.
Eldrazi tron I only have one match against, won it in 2. I found that I was trying to grind out value, using Tireless Tracker to draw a lot. Path is your best friend here.
On a side note, I've always been a fan of Lotus Cobra, and I finally caved and picked up my playset. Does anyone have a decent list for it?
It was discussed ~10 pages or so back, but Ulvenwald Tracker would be good. Might have to trade a creature, but knight, queller, scooze with a counter, stuff with exalted boost, etc. would be able to take down vizier or devoted druid
I agree a singleton game plan isn't great, I just can't see myself cutting another creature or another retreat. 2 is the bare minimum I'll run. I did pick up another elspeth, so I could replace wargate with that. Would you suggest replacing the stony with more qasali pridemages? I had staticaster the past ~10 times I ran into merfolk, but it never actually helped. I'm guessing I just need it with retreat out to maximize its effectiveness?
Notes: I don't have a fourth Noble, and I'd still be on the fence on the split. I feel that having the red mana (and black for surgical) is too often important. Now, having a couple more mistys would negate that but both are out of my budget range for a month or two. The Ghostly Prisons are an over-reaction to me never beating merfolk. I knew there would be two or three people playing merfolk, but I would like to at least get a match won against them. Wargate is interesting, I've used it three times: once to get tireless tracker, and twice to get retreat. If I had seen it more often I would say more, but I haven't seen it enough to say whether it's worth it.
It was a GPTQ, 22 people, I went 4-1 then lost in the top 8.
M1: Opponent was 15 minutes late, so even with even players I got a bye.
M2: 8-rack
Game 1 he lands 3 Shrieking Afflictions, Raven's Crime gets there so I lose on turn 5 (he was on the play).
Game 2 I get opening hand of dork, 3 lands, a qasali, and 2 spell quellers. I queller a Liliana of the Veil, a shrieking affliction, and then hit a queller off of collected company on a raven's crime. He does play an ensaring bridge, but without the raven's crime he has 2 lands so I could get there off of 2/x beats.
Game 3 I see a pair of knights of a CoCo and queller another Lili and a raven's crime.
He complained to a lot of people I was cheating because I got 5 quellers in 2 games...
M3: Ponza
List seemed stock, but had the Madcap Experiment and Platinum Emperion combo
Game 1: I get a decent start, but not fast enough. Primal Command gains life and gets a Stormbreath Dragon, with path in my hand, and then I get eaten by a monstrous dargon.
Game 2: I see a good hand, and with courser of kruphix my life never goes below 18. She got manascrewed, and revealed 2 anger of the gods after the game. I see Choke come out turn three, which I had forgotten was a card.
Game 3: She casted Bonfire of the Damned on turn 2 for one to kill my dork, but I had 2 more in hand. I get Teeg out turn 3, she attempts to cast Mwonvuli Acid-Moss before actually reading the card. Teeg saves me from the moss, a primal command, and a (would have been) miracled Bonfire
M4: Eldrazi Tron
Game 1: Both have good starts, I eventually face down a reality smaser with no cards in hand, then topdeck a retreat to win.
Game 2: Side in some grindy cards, grind for a bit, eventually he topdecks a Walking Ballista and casts it for 14(!). Path it, then turn after gets another balista out, this time for 12 since he had to kill my knight that had lethal after exalted pumps. Path that one, and get there a couple turns later.
M5: Jund (regular)
Game 1: Get him down to 3, but had to use queller and then he bolted it at the most inopportune time.
Gamee 2: Out grinded me, partly because I forgot to remove the retreats from my deck.
Ended up 2nd in the top 8.
top 8 M1: Grixis Control
Game 1: see a hand with ghost quarter, 2, and 3 drops. Mulligan to no lands, no lands, then a decent hand albeit 4 cards. Can't grind well enough.
Game 2: Get blown out by Dispel. I thought he may have spell pierce so I had 6 mana when I casted the CoCo, instead get hit by dispel. Notably, He saw 9 different kill spells, with no snapcaster mages. 2 Fatal Push, 3 Dreadbore, 2 Terminate, and 2 Go for the Throat. One dreadbore hit my elspeth, which could have lead me to stabilize against the Tasigur, the Golden Fang on board.
Sadly I had previously never lost to grixis, I thought it was a decent match up. But bad luck can happen.
Does anyone have tips for my sideboard? and for Jund/Grixis, I used to not have a problem but push seems to have overloaded their removal suite to much for my list to grind.
Tron, you need those unified wills and kataki can be disruptive if you get him early enough. so cut 2x tracker, 1x scooze, maybe 1x path. Reasoning for the path cut is when you really need it you're almost never at a point when you can win on the crack back.
Burn:
- 1 Eternal Witness
- 2 Vizier of Remedies
+ 2 Voice of Resurgence
+ 1 Courser of Kruphix
Tron:
- 2 Tireless Tracker
- 1 Scavenging Ooze
+ 3 Unified Will
(if on play or want to, - 1 [/card]Path to Exile[/card], + 1 Kataki, War's Wage
MB flex: 3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tireless Tracker
SB:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Damping Sphere
1x Path to Exile
1xScavenging Ooze
2xStony Silence
2xEngineered Explosives
1x Qasali Pridemage
I consider all the 2 drops flex spots, since what you play in them depends on the meta and what is in your sideboard. Main is pretty stock, still playing 2x Retreat to Coralhelm. I know a fair amount of people don't like it any more but the only time I've been unhappy drawing retreat is when I have another on board. I think it mostly depends on when you side them out. 7 dorks, 23 lands, in concession to burn and mardu.
As convulted as I can make the explanation. You side them out when it doesn't cause your opponent to waste extra resources killing the queller. In burn, usually it doesn't present enough of a clock and doesn't stop enough damage. Jund, it's great when you stop a Lili from landing, but usually it'll just get pushed, bolted, or decayed. Keep them in against control, but only use them when you see a board wipe or Cryptic Command.
Eldrazi tron I only have one match against, won it in 2. I found that I was trying to grind out value, using Tireless Tracker to draw a lot. Path is your best friend here.
On a side note, I've always been a fan of Lotus Cobra, and I finally caved and picked up my playset. Does anyone have a decent list for it?
4 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Spellskite
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 Wargate
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Unified Will
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Spellskite
1 Courser of Kruphix
Notes: I don't have a fourth Noble, and I'd still be on the fence on the split. I feel that having the red mana (and black for surgical) is too often important. Now, having a couple more mistys would negate that but both are out of my budget range for a month or two. The Ghostly Prisons are an over-reaction to me never beating merfolk. I knew there would be two or three people playing merfolk, but I would like to at least get a match won against them. Wargate is interesting, I've used it three times: once to get tireless tracker, and twice to get retreat. If I had seen it more often I would say more, but I haven't seen it enough to say whether it's worth it.
M1: Opponent was 15 minutes late, so even with even players I got a bye.
M2: 8-rack
Game 1 he lands 3 Shrieking Afflictions, Raven's Crime gets there so I lose on turn 5 (he was on the play).
Game 2 I get opening hand of dork, 3 lands, a qasali, and 2 spell quellers. I queller a Liliana of the Veil, a shrieking affliction, and then hit a queller off of collected company on a raven's crime. He does play an ensaring bridge, but without the raven's crime he has 2 lands so I could get there off of 2/x beats.
Game 3 I see a pair of knights of a CoCo and queller another Lili and a raven's crime.
He complained to a lot of people I was cheating because I got 5 quellers in 2 games...
M3: Ponza
List seemed stock, but had the Madcap Experiment and Platinum Emperion combo
Game 1: I get a decent start, but not fast enough. Primal Command gains life and gets a Stormbreath Dragon, with path in my hand, and then I get eaten by a monstrous dargon.
Game 2: I see a good hand, and with courser of kruphix my life never goes below 18. She got manascrewed, and revealed 2 anger of the gods after the game. I see Choke come out turn three, which I had forgotten was a card.
Game 3: She casted Bonfire of the Damned on turn 2 for one to kill my dork, but I had 2 more in hand. I get Teeg out turn 3, she attempts to cast Mwonvuli Acid-Moss before actually reading the card. Teeg saves me from the moss, a primal command, and a (would have been) miracled Bonfire
M4: Eldrazi Tron
Game 1: Both have good starts, I eventually face down a reality smaser with no cards in hand, then topdeck a retreat to win.
Game 2: Side in some grindy cards, grind for a bit, eventually he topdecks a Walking Ballista and casts it for 14(!). Path it, then turn after gets another balista out, this time for 12 since he had to kill my knight that had lethal after exalted pumps. Path that one, and get there a couple turns later.
M5: Jund (regular)
Game 1: Get him down to 3, but had to use queller and then he bolted it at the most inopportune time.
Gamee 2: Out grinded me, partly because I forgot to remove the retreats from my deck.
Ended up 2nd in the top 8.
top 8 M1: Grixis Control
Game 1: see a hand with ghost quarter, 2, and 3 drops. Mulligan to no lands, no lands, then a decent hand albeit 4 cards. Can't grind well enough.
Game 2: Get blown out by Dispel. I thought he may have spell pierce so I had 6 mana when I casted the CoCo, instead get hit by dispel. Notably, He saw 9 different kill spells, with no snapcaster mages. 2 Fatal Push, 3 Dreadbore, 2 Terminate, and 2 Go for the Throat. One dreadbore hit my elspeth, which could have lead me to stabilize against the Tasigur, the Golden Fang on board.
Sadly I had previously never lost to grixis, I thought it was a decent match up. But bad luck can happen.
Does anyone have tips for my sideboard? and for Jund/Grixis, I used to not have a problem but push seems to have overloaded their removal suite to much for my list to grind.